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Sexual Compromise & Support


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3 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

It doesn’t change the differing needs but it seems like it might help avoid some of the accompanying blame, confusion, self-image issues, etc., that people who discover orientation late(r) in relationships struggle with.

I'm a member of several other 'relationship' forums (mostly lurking), and on one in particular, it seems to be quite common that if a partner looses interest in sex, it means one of a few things:

 

1.  The partner is no longer interest in *you* (doesn't love you anymore)

2.  The partner is having an affair

3.  There's a 'chemical' issue. (hormone imbalance, low testosterone levels, etc.)

 

But the one that drives me nuts is when the posters immediately jump to, "Your partner pulled a bait and switch!"  

 

These forums are aware of asexuality, but rarely bring it up as a possibility.  

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On 3/25/2018 at 12:08 PM, vega57 said:

It's funny (strange).  You see yourself as being "pathetic and lonely" if you took care of yourself.  Meanwhile, someone like *me* wouldn't see you like that at all.  I'd see you as someone who knows himself well enough to take care of his own needs and who has self-mastery over himself.  It's a quality I would actually admire; not look down upon. 

I missed this earlier.  It’s very interesting to me as, while I *do* prefer living with someone to living alone, I have much the same view  on self-sufficiency (in all areas, not just sex).  I tend to view depending on others for things one can do oneself as lazy/a weakness.  Huh.

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I totally get why it looks like a bait-and-switch from outside my head... but at the time I lacked both the language and the concept needed to understand - let alone explain - my orientation.

 

I wasn’t lesbian.  The only other option I knew of at the time was ”straight” so that was what I tried to do. 

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2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

It's not so much that, as recognising that two people complement each other. It's like going on a long driving trip with another driver but insisting you have to do all the driving because it would be weak or lazy to let the other person drive.

Even then I’m not totally comfortable with it... these days I’m kicking myself for having deferred so many things to my SO, because it’s just that much more to relearn/remaster.  I do feel like I’ve been lazy and am now paying for it.

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20 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

So do I. Except, I'm so asocial, people I'm not intimate with don't make it to that list.

Even if you're not intimate with someone, it doesn't mean that you can't be grateful for them, right?  

 

I had 'one of those mornings' today.  It was one of the domino mornings, where when the first thing went wrong, about 6 other things followed, all within an hour.  At one point, I received a phone call from the post office.  Apparently when I was there 30 minutes earlier, I left my wallet there.  So, I had to double-back and pick it up.  I was grateful that he called me.  A lot of people wouldn't because it's "not in their job description" or it's *my* problem for being "stupid".  :o

 

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My ace and I actually manage intimacy quite nicely, but if we didn't, he'd slowly drift out of my attention, like sex drifts out of his - irrelevant in my intimate space. That still means I celebrate my life, but for the relationship to be on the celebration list, it has to be relevant to the celebration aspect, yes

Hmm.  I'll have to think about that...

 

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The idea that sexual people who are frustrated don't celebrate life is absurd.

Yes, I agree.  But to hear or read about some of them talking about it, they will actually tell you that they can't enjoy life...can't concentrate...can't focus...too depressed to eat (while scarfing down 2 Big Mac's)...they're "miserable" and soooo "unhappy"...

 

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12 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

I missed this earlier.  It’s very interesting to me as, while I *do* prefer living with someone to living alone, I have much the same view  on self-sufficiency (in all areas, not just sex).  I tend to view depending on others for things one can do oneself as lazy/a weakness.  Huh.

Or...entitled.  

Or all of the above! :o

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11 minutes ago, vega57 said:

These forums are aware of asexuality, but rarely bring it up as a possibility.  

I s’pose when asexuality is seen - correctly or otherwise - as a “1% thing” it’s going to be considered the least likely of the various explanations.

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8 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Did you miss responding to this post too, Vega?

 

 

 Oh...I'm...so sorry, Tele.  I didn't miss it.  I had a chance to briefly skim over it while waiting to speak to someone this morning.  I couldn't respond because I wasn't at my computer at home.  

 

I'm playing 'catch-up' right now.  I'll look it over in a few minutes.  

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17 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

 

Because the women have to want it too. Plus, you don't assume in your early twenties that it's the best it's going to be.

But weren't you with someone who wanted it, but you didn't marry her?  

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1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

Cheers.

WOW!  LOL!  I just started to read what you wrote and saw that you posted like a zillion hours ago!  

 

Talk about blowing you off...!  

 

Oops.  My bad...

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34 minutes ago, vega57 said:

Even if you're not intimate with someone, it doesn't mean that you can't be grateful for them, right?  

um... I suppose I am, in the way I am grateful for the planet at large, etc. My life is full of lots of amazing people to appreciate. But frankly, being asocial means I don't care about most of them most of the time. What I appreciate is my geekery, my partner, my kid, my plants, my projects.... the rest is there somewhere in the background. One day I'll vaguely focus on something and think it is nice that it exists, but frankly, as an asocial person, people not directly involved in my life are a fuzzy part of the background scenery. Maybe I'll notice if there is some direct interaction. And this includes people I call "best friends". I have zero day to day awareness of them. They are used to me being like this, which is how the friendship survives. That said, we also love and appreciate each other enough that I can have one of them waking me up at 3am because they need to talk. Once the talk is over - and it will be a very heartfelt talk - I'll be back to my normal awareness of the world = ignore.

 

34 minutes ago, vega57 said:

Yes, I agree.  But to hear or read about some of them talking about it, they will actually tell you that they can't enjoy life...can't concentrate...can't focus...too depressed to eat (while scarfing down 2 Big Mac's)...they're "miserable" and soooo "unhappy"...

Is it possible that you choose to register specific aspects of sexuals and not others? Like Tele can have a fantastic sense of humor on occasion. He isn't always whining either, for that matter, but you not only seem to focus on those aspects of him when talking to him, you usually think I'm a female version of Tele or something. But I am actually a separate person who is quite different from him. I don't think I'd have the patience for 20 years of sexlessness. In fact, short of this forum, I can't recall being mistaken for anyone else ever before.

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4 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Thanks. I was a little disappointed 'fenderfluid' didn't get more recognition, tbh.

Probably not enough strats here....

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23 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

In itself, that's dismissive as you're instantly saying that since you don't have the same needs, you don't accept they can be a need for anyone. It's like a sexual person saying asexuals don't really *need* to not have sex. You could say the same thing about conversation, but it's generally accepted that if someone is somehow prevented from ever having a conversation, they'd have an important need - for social contact - not being met.

 

I'm not asking you to agree it's a universal need, I'm asking you to you accept that other people's needs are legitimate even though you don't share them

I WISH I had my old computer back.  There was a terrific article I saved in my Favorites about the difference between "needs" and "wants".  Unfortunately, when I got my new computer, Favorites didn't transfer to the new one.  Alas, the computer 'geek' LOST them ALL. (Umm..that computer 'geek' would be ME!)

 

I don't agree that all "needs" are legitimate.  It depends on what they are.  If you have two unbroken arms and legs and brain that functions, you don't "need" me to tie your shoes.  Meanwhile, the apartment complex I lived at with my mom had 88 residents that were almost all senior citizens.  Many of them were disabled.  Had no car.  Wheelchair bound.  They all needed to eat, which meant that they needed to get to the grocery store.  If they asked me, I happily obliged (no charge).  It got to the point that I was banging on doors on the day I knew they got their Social Security check, asking them if they needed anything from the grocery store.  

 

Some needs are legitimate.  Others are only 'wants' disguised as 'needs'.  

 

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I didn't put words in your mouth, I described how your general attitude can come across - that sexuals are shallow *because* they find sex important. I notice you haven't actually denied that's what you think, just that you've never said it. 

I don't see sexuals as "shallow" *because* they find sex important.  I would see them as shallow if they found it to be more important than the rest of the relationship.  I would find them to be shallow if they left their spouse because their spouse couldn't be sexual (because of a painful illness, for example).  I knew a man whose wife was diagnosed with cancer.  Sex was painful for her.  Walking was painful for her.  So, what did he do?  He went out and cheated on his wife.  His justification?  "My wife is going to DIE anyway!"  Would you consider that to be "shallow"?  

 

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That list of things you sympathise over is interesting. It's the same list as things you've seemed to be dismissing and they sound a little more like pity than sympathy, as though they're character defects you feel you're lucky to have avoided. You've also overcooked them.

sym·pa·thy
ˈsimpəTHē/
noun
 
  1. 1.
    feelings of pity and sorrow for someone else's misfortune.
    "they had great sympathy for the flood victims"

    synonyms:

    compassion, caring, concern, solicitude, empathy; More
     
     
     

     

    Apparently, pity + sorrow = sympathy

     

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    I've never said I can't enjoy other things, for instance. 

    Then you're one of some sexuals who seem to feel otherwise.  

     

    Tele, I gotta tell you something here.  You seem to think that a lot of what I post is from my own thinking and my own conclusions.  It's not.  Much of what I write about comes from the very mouths of other sexuals.  For instance, I've NEVER heard a sexual say something like, "My wife and I haven't had sex in 2 years.  I'm a little disappointed or a little sad".   It has been extreme, such as, "I'm going crazy without it!" or "I feel like I'm going to die without it" or "I'm so miserable" without it", etc.  And yet, it's obvious that they're not crazy, dying or even miserable.  And yes, and number of them have said that they "can't enjoy life" without it.  

     
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Do you really think most people are completely unaffected by what others think about them btw? Because most research says it's one of the major drivers of our behaviour. 

 

I don't know what most people feel.   I DO know that some people are very affected by what (they perceive) others think about  them.  My mom was like that.  My mom's mom was like that.  My late husband was like that.  My late husband was working on his car one day.  I was in the middle of writing a paper (for work).  He came upstairs and told me that he "needed" me to go to the auto parts store for him.  I asked him why he couldn't go.  He said that he would have to take a shower first (he had been working on the car all morning, and was wearing a t-shirt and jeans.  His hands were 'messy', but he simply could have washed them or put on some work gloves)  I asked him why he had to take a shower.  He said, "What will everyone think if I showed up all covered in grease (he wasn't; his hands were) and sweat (nope!).  I said, "Well, since only men work in the store that sells auto parts, they'd probably think that you're working on a car.  It's not as if the men who go to those stores wear jackets and ties!  Believe it or not, there isn't a dress code!"  It took him a few minutes to get it...

 

I later learned that the people who are so worried about what other's will think...are often one of the "others" themselves.  

 

I showed up at church on Sunday wearing bedroom slippers. (I have an 'issue' with my toe).  It's funny...I didn't even think about what other people may think. What are they going to do?  Scoff?  Laugh?  Well, I could see them laughing...if I was ONLY wearing bedroom slippers...

 

...and nothing else.   

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

Probably not enough strats here....

*snorts*

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33 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

um... I suppose I am, in the way I am grateful for the planet at large, etc. My life is full of lots of amazing people to appreciate. But frankly, being asocial means I don't care about most of them most of the time. What I appreciate is my geekery, my partner, my kid, my plants, my projects.... the rest is there somewhere in the background. One day I'll vaguely focus on something and think it is nice that it exists, but frankly, as an asocial person, people not directly involved in my life are a fuzzy part of the background scenery. Maybe I'll notice if there is some direct interaction. And this includes people I call "best friends". I have zero day to day awareness of them. They are used to me being like this, which is how the friendship survives. That said, we also love and appreciate each other enough that I can have one of them waking me up at 3am because they need to talk. Once the talk is over - and it will be a very heartfelt talk - I'll be back to my normal awareness of the world = ignore.

LOL!  Geez luu-EEZ!  You, with your many posts!  :lol:  I hope *my* bad luck this morning isn't rubbing off on you!  :D

 

Therein lies the difference between you and me.  If I was in the same situation (and I have been, too), I'd be awake thinking about what was said.  If it was a problem that went unsolved, I'd be thinking about how I could help to solve the problem.  

 

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Is it possible that you choose to register specific aspects of sexuals and not others? Like Tele can have a fantastic sense of humor on occasion. He isn't always whining either, for that matter, but you not only seem to focus on those aspects of him when talking to him, you usually think I'm a female version of Tele or something. But I am actually a separate person who is quite different from him. I don't think I'd have the patience for 20 years of sexlessness. In fact, short of this forum, I can't recall being mistaken for anyone else ever before.

Oh, I've complimented Tele on a few occasions.  I'm usually shocked when we're in agreement.  :o:lol: Tele and I have talked through PMs before, as have you and I.  Just as you think that I focus on certain aspects of Tele (...or you...), Tele has also focused on certain aspects of *me*.  Which is perfectly fine, in my book.  

(Note to Tele:  Don't you just LUUUVVV it when people talk about you behind your back, in front of your face? :D)  

 

And no...I don't see you as the "female version" of Tele.  

 

You've been very descriptive in your posts and I appreciate that.  Keep 'em coming!  

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, ryn2 said:

I s’pose when asexuality is seen - correctly or otherwise - as a “1% thing” it’s going to be considered the least likely of the various explanations.

Yes.

 

But it also makes me wonder if there's a LOT more asexuality out there than that 1% people keep quoting.  

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28 minutes ago, vega57 said:

Yes.

 

But it also makes me wonder if there's a LOT more asexuality out there than that 1% people keep quoting.  

It’s certainly possible that it’s underreported.  Hopefully as more people are made aware at a younger age that will become evident.

 

I grew up in a time and place where “men seek/love/are crazy for sex and [but?] women tolerate it to get and keep a man.”  While I’ve long since learned to recognize that as the gross tangle of stereotypes it is, as a teen/young adult it gave me no inkling that I might not be “normal.”

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43 minutes ago, vega57 said:

I don't agree that all "needs" are legitimate.  It depends on what they are.  If you have two unbroken arms and legs and brain that functions, you don't "need" me to tie your shoes.

I don't "need" anyone to tie my shoes or squat in my life sneering at what I find necessary at all. Thanks to the unbroken arms and legs, not only can I tie my shoes myself, I can actually live my life without them too.

 

 

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52 minutes ago, vega57 said:

If I was in the same situation (and I have been, too), I'd be awake thinking about what was said.

On any given day, there are about a dozen people looking to me for advice. I give it. Beyond that, it is their life to live. I can't spend mine thinking about how they live theirs. I care. Deeply, but I can't afford to spend my life thinking about theirs. That is not how it works. They accept that. They value me anyway, because I care genuinely, and they can feel that when they interact.

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1 hour ago, vega57 said:

I don't see sexuals as "shallow" *because* they find sex important.  I would see them as shallow if they found it to be more important than the rest of the relationship.

What relationship? You're talking about it being unnecessary to tie someone's shoelaces unless they are disabled. Where is the relationship in anything you have described? Or even a basic belief about them as being anything other than hypocritical creatures presenting wants as needs and what not? You mention something worth keeping in the face of incompatibility, it would be weighed. So far, it seems like hostility and confidence in lack of character AND no sex. 

 

You don't even find it ironic that the only sexuals you'll find here are those who are not dumping their partners for a lack of sex in practice and accusing them of being shallow and considering sex more important than the relationship. You don't find this illogical. Our explanations make no sense to you. So you explain. What relationship are you talking about, that should be more important than sex if we aren't shallow? So far, you have not described anything worth preserving.

 

1 hour ago, vega57 said:

I would find them to be shallow if they left their spouse because their spouse couldn't be sexual (because of a painful illness, for example).  I knew a man whose wife was diagnosed with cancer.  Sex was painful for her.  Walking was painful for her.  So, what did he do?  He went out and cheated on his wife.  His justification?  "My wife is going to DIE anyway!"  Would you consider that to be "shallow"?  

I will not answer for the actions of others in random examples, just because you are in a mood to fault find because accepting that we may be decent people is not on the table.

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35 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

On any given day, there are about a dozen people looking to me for advice. I give it. Beyond that, it is their life to live. I can't spend mine thinking about how they live theirs.

I so wish I could do this!  Instead I mull, and mull, and mull.

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3 hours ago, vega57 said:

But weren't you with someone who wanted it, but you didn't marry her?  

In my case, the sex was great but we had very different ideas of where we wanted our lives to go.  (she wanted 2 kids, a house a dog etc, I had a much less conventional life in mind).   We ended things on very good terms when she found someone who wanted what she wanted - we knew all along that our relationship was fun, but wouldn't last. 

 

So the answer is that sex is on link in the chain of things some people need for happiness. Not enough by itself, but a big problem if it is missing. 

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On 12/9/2012 at 2:25 AM, Einy said:

I still haven’t found a way how to come to terms with the fact my partner doesn’t desire me sexually. And this is the hardest part. We’ve been without sex for more than a year now and yet the worst thing for me isn’t the lack of sex but that he just doesn’t want it. And I doubt that compromise could change it.

I doubt I could even get aroused knowing it’s just an act and it’s not what he wants and does only because of me. It’s rather a turn off, so how am I supposed to do it?

I wish he was attracted to me and want me sexually, more than sex itself. I get so hypersensitive about these things and feel so useless. So I guess compromising won’t help me much, I think I would feel even worse, once I know all these things about asexuality. How do you get over it?

I can relate to " I still haven’t found a way how to come to terms with the fact my partner doesn’t desire me sexually. And this is the hardest part." My partner doesn't understand that I love him and want to share EVERYTHING with him. Sex for me is an expression of my love, and I feel completely connected to my partner, and nothing else can replace that. He thinks that I can just go out and "get some", as long as I tell him; however, that's not an option for me. I need to be emotionally attached before sex is important to me, it's not simply a biological desire that can be erased by a romp in the sack with a stranger every week or two. I don't want that! It seems weird to me and so "primal". I don't want sex with a stranger, I want sex with my partner. He doesn't want sex with me and that hurts! To make things worse, he was married before and had sex with his previous husband regularly. He tells me that he doesn't want to go down that road again as it compromised his principles. Well, how does he think that makes me feel! What's wrong with me! I just don't know if we are going to make it. It's really straining our relationship to the point that I'm getting close to calling it off completely. I don't know how to get around this? I don't want to be sexless for the rest of my life, and yet I really love him? If you find a solution or compromise that works, please let me know, before its too late! Good luck to you!

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1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

Any of them being unilaterally withdrawn is likely to seriously threaten (at least) the relationship..

This is where I get stuck, at least for my own situation.  I didn’t unilaterally withdraw sex; I’m being told the sex I can offer is not acceptable because I don’t and can’t feel the right way about it... even thought it was evidently just fine all the years I offered it (based on how he now worries “all that was a lie”).

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On 25/3/2018 at 6:57 PM, vega57 said:

First of all, I don't see them as "needs", but rather "wants".  To me, there's a difference.  So, I won't be convinced that sex is a "need"...unless, your intention is to procreate. THEN I could see sex as a "need". 

 

I really hate it when you put words in my mouth, Tele.  I never referred or inferred that sexuals are "silly people" or that ALL of them are "shallow".  Some sexuals are very shallow.  Some asexuals, bi, lesbians, trannies, etc. are also very shallow, yadda, yadda, yadda.  

 

First of all, you're making a sweeping assumption right away.  I don't know all of *your* background, nor do I know @MrDane's  You and @MrDane are in similar situations in that, neither of you is getting the sex you want when you want it with who you want it from.  That's all I have to work with.  

 

Meanwhile, you asked me what "bits I sympathize with".  

 

1.  The idea that you both say you "need" sex in order to feel "love".  

2.  That you're both depressed (and at least, *you* are angry) because you're not getting what you believe you "need".

3.  That neither of you has seemed to find a way to find love or feel good about yourselves without sex.

4.  That both of you seem to rely on someone else  (a.k.a. sex for validation) for your self-esteem.  

5.  That you can't seem to enjoy life...your spouse...your family...food...work...friends...  even yourself, without sex.  That you seem to be so obsessed with the ONE thing you don't have that it colors what you do have.  

 

At the end of your life, do you really think that one of your major regrets is that you didn't have enough sex?

 

 

 

 

 

First of all, I value your attempt to ‘see’ the world my way and basically that is my reason to be here, to ‘see’ the world from an asexual perspective.

 

How come a ‘need’ for procreation understood just like that? It serves no purpose regarding survival! I can be happy without sex, but I need it to reach my maximum level of feeling both happy, wellbalanced, loved and connectekr. My maximum level. 

 

You could say, that the lack of sex colours my view. Like an addict, who is physically and mentally reminded to go towards the next rush. Without, I have to deal with it. I can do that. I do that. 

 

I dont feel superior to asexuals, because of my need. They are not missing something. I just miss the opportunity to share a fantastic experience.

 

it just feels natural, and I have to constantly remind myself, that it isnt natural for her. I also laugh when something is funny. I smile to people I like. I move towards being closer to stuff I enjoy and I move away from things I dont like. It is natural, innate, hardwired, given.

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, MrDane said:

First of all, I value your attempt to ‘see’ the world my way and basically that is my reason to be here, to ‘see’ the world from an asexual perspective.

Yaaaay!  

 

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How come a ‘need’ for procreation understood just like that? It serves no purpose regarding survival!

I do believe that it has to do with survival of the human race.  Before test tube babies and IVF, it was pretty much the only option human beings had.  And, for the most part, it's still the number one choice.  The other methods are costly for the average person, and they're also not as 'personal'.  So, I can understand the 'need' for it in that regard.  (I did have 4 children)

 

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You could say, that the lack of sex colours my view. Like an addict, who is physically and mentally reminded to go towards the next rush. Without, I have to deal with it. I can do that. I do that. 

When you describe sex as like a 'drug', it's probably the closest I come to understanding your view.  I've had friends/boyfriends who have used drugs.  Some were even addicted.  

 

They described what it was like (for them) to be on cocaine (for example).  While I never used cocaine myself (I wasn't into drugs), I could only imagine what that sense of 'euphoria' was like.  They would say things like, "You feel more confident.  You feel better about  yourself. You feel like you're intensely 'connected' to the world at large."  Others users described it as feeling a sense of 'calm' or more energetic than usual  They were listening to people 'better'.  The users have particularly said that the first time they used cocaine, it was "amazing".  Then, when the drug started to wear off, they spent the rest of the night trying to get back to that first intense 'high'.  

 

But coming 'down' wasn't that pleasant, and they often felt worse about themselves than before they started.  They felt 'edgy'...depressed...restless.  They've reported feeling unable to concentrate for very long, sadness, irritability and agitation.  Someone even described it as feeling like, "There's not a single pleasurable thing left in the world."  They found no pleasure in things they would have normally found pleasurable.  And so the cycle of addiction begins.   

 

Some people never tried it. Some may have tried it only a few times, but it never really did much of anything for them.  Others tried it and were immediately 'hooked'.   

 

I see asexuality vs. sexuality in a similar way, in that there are  asexuals who have no desire to try 'it' (sex).  Some may have tried it a few times...or even more...but it really does absolutely nothing for them. Still others may be more sex-positive, but after a while, they may start to get 'burned out' on simply going along for the 'ride'.  

 

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I can be happy without sex, but I need it to reach my maximum level of feeling both happy, wellbalanced, loved and connectekr. My maximum level. 

Now, this sounds more like dependence to me than addiction. It's good that you can feel 'happy' without it.  I would be curious to know what your "maximum level" of that overall feeling of "well-being"...feels like for you, and, if you think you might be able to achieve that "maximum" without sex...

 

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I dont feel superior to asexuals, because of my need. They are not missing something. I just miss the opportunity to share a fantastic experience.

I can relate to this because I've had friends who have wanted me to do coke with them and I've declined.  I could see and hear their disappointment.  For them, it seemed to be a missed opportunity to 'share' something they liked, hoping I would love it as much as they did.  

 

Oh, by the way...I never saw you as feeling 'superior' to asexuals in any way.  

 

All in all, I want to thank you for your explanations.  They've been most helpful!

 

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On 3/27/2018 at 8:05 AM, Telecaster68 said:

It does sound like the onus is on your husband to figure himself out at the moment, from what you've said. It must hurt to know you've been doing your best and it's not good enough (at the moment, at least).

 

From a similarish perspective as your husband's, I could have a conjecture at what might be going on. It might at least give you some starting points if he's having trouble explaining himself. It contains a large amount of projection and generalisations - I've been through similar phases. (Not ED, but now I have a total disinclination towards sex with my wife because I know she doesn't want it. The major difference is that she's quite happy with this position, or at least not unhappy enough to do anything about it. I can absolutely see how it could translate to ED though. Not sure how far that's applicable in your situation though since the ED sounds like a long term thing.)

 

Most sexuals can intuit that something's a bit different with an asexual partner. I think it's down to micro-body language, which is really difficult to pin down, and when we do, it sounds so petty that seems horrible and slightly weird to complain about, and even if our partners try to change those reactions, it'll never be the same. But the aggregate effect is that we sense we're not desired, unless our partners can sustain Oscar level subtleties of performance every time for years, and that's just unreasonable to ask of anyone. 

 

When we get somewhere close to figuring out we're not sexually desired and never have been, it pulls the rug from under our feet. It's not that we can't conceive of someone not fancying us (far from it, mostly), but this is a person who doesn't fancy us, but says they're fine and happy to have sex with us despite clearly not understanding the whole sexual desire deal. This really doesn't compute to a sexual person, so we strongly suspect they're lying to save our feelings. So the hit on our egos, plus generally feeling sex is a bit 'off' anyway', plus not understanding what's going on in our partner's head but getting the feeling it's not good, whatever it is, and they never really want to have sex with us or ever did and if they do offer themselves up it's akin to a pity-fuck and feeling guilty they're probably hating every moment, whatever they say, can translate into thinking 'ah I give up'. Which could come out as ED. 

 

Underlying it is a feeling that sex for sexuals is a joyous, sharing, natural thing, and now it's become a complicated, stressful elephant in the room that will forever require negotiation and never be a wild rampant mindblowing experience even then.

 

So it might be he's trying to untangle all that. Which is good, because couples therapy can untangle things. The best result is probably that he accepts you're never going to be in a fired up frenzy and rip his shirt off, but in your slightly different way, sex is just as worthwhile, and most importantly, you really mean you do want it. Just for completely different reasons that are unfathomable to most sexuals. He just has to accept it. Whether it's enough in the end, is a different thing.

 

It might be all that. Or he might just be epically pissed off...

Sorry, tele - I didn’t see the notification for this earlier.  Your thoughts are really helpful!

 

Agreed, I don’t feel like there’s much I can do until he’s sorted things out for himself some.

 

A (big!) bit of history... I’m not sure if this supports or contradicts your theory so I’ll let you review it and decide.  From what I recall of what he’s told me (he is - and freely admits it - very uncomfortable talking about sex at all) he had minimal sexual experience prior to being with me (one time receiving oral sex from one person, one or two times attempting intercourse but being stopped by ED with a second person who lost patience at that point and broke up with him).  The first was in high school, the second in college.  He basically did not date outside that, although he had female friends.  His family apparently worried that he was closeted gay.  His main sex education and source of enjoyment was porn, with some sex chat and phone sex.

 

He had ED issues with me from

the very first time, and every time since.  I can’t speak to whether or not I’m a “bad actor” but I’m about 10 years older than him and had had numerous prior partners and - while some relationships ended because I reached a point where I just couldn’t keep doing it anymore - none of them had similar issues.

 

I came to the conclusion I was ace in 2012.  We never talked about it until a couple of months ago (see:  uncomfortable talking about sex).

 

Several years ago we stopped having sex.  I thought it was because of one thing; apparently it was actually something else.  I noticed, and kept asking (without saying “because I notice we’ve stopped having sex”) if everything was okay/if whatever was wrong had to do with me/if I should be worried/etc.  He always assured me it had nothing to do with me/us and I had no reason to be concerned.

 

Over time I came to the (apparently wrong) conclusion that 50% he was ace too/25% he really was gay/25% he was having an affair.  It was only quite recently that he stopped instigating/started avoiding more general intimacies like hugging, cuddling in bed, etc.

 

In the year or so after the sex stopped we also went through some big life stuff.  He experienced a strong, horrible rejection from a group he had been a huge part of since his teens.  I was laid off from

a job I’d had for more than 15 years and took a long time settling into my new one.

 

I don’t think either of us is really angry right now.  I just wish he had said something sooner.  I occasionally feel like stopping was a mildly unfair test I failed, and I’m sure he’s feeling a lot of what you and others have described.

 

As I’ve mentioned he has a longstanding (pre-me) issue with depression (and family history of same).  He also has described considerable issues with rejection that date back to early childhood and that he is working through in individual therapy.

 

Whew.  That was a lot to type on my phone. :)  Sorry to be so long-winded.

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Sex for me is not at all like a drug in the sense of an unhealthy dependence and then a low and extensive use being harmful for me. Possibly because I've never felt the need for recreational sex and sex has always been about intimacy for me. I can do just fine without it. Frankly, even break ups with people don't devastate me as much as they do most people, because being asocial, my preference is genuinely to be by myself. So I may miss them and the relationship I value, but the overall loneliness sort of a thing doesn't happen for me.

 

I feel more lonely feeling undesired in an intimate relationship than entirely on my own and solo.

 

Consequently, if intimacy seems deficient in some manner, I simply tend to move on from that person. I am not good at constantly censoring myself. And that is how it works out for me, if I can't talk too much about sex or thoughtlessly touch him in ways that feel normal to me and must be on my guard about his comfort. I don't shrivel without sex at all. The relationship simply goes into some folder and gets filed under oblivion. Pretty much like sex is filed under oblivion for aces. So, it is actually unhealthy and drug-like high/low kind of mess to keep working for a relationship that seems inclined to fall apart on intimacy.

 

In the sense, dropping the sex won't be that big a deal, but I end up having to work on it anyway, because I don't want to drop my ace and that will definitely happen if I feel like I can't expect my needs met with him. I'll stop expecting. But then, I won't deal well with censoring my behavior, I'll avoid him altogether. So, in that sense, the drug like unhealthy aspect of sex is actually in constantly censoring myself for someone else's comfort. So, it is important to me, that I am sexually interested in him, even fully knowing it is a dead end.

 

If my ace weren't such a champ, I'd be drug free already. Thing is, he'd tie my shoelaces if I asked him (to use the earlier metaphor about being sceptical that a partner's desires were legit) AND kiss my feet too while at it, just like I would. We don't grudge each other any pampering we can offer. The mismatch is on genuine inability only.

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I think perhaps my basic problem may be that I'm no good at being "just friends" with an ex - which is what converting an explicitly sexual relationship to platonic will feel like to me. If he doesn't belong in my bedroom, the romantic feelings and the sense of belonging itself wane. If he is constantly in my bedroom, he is going to have to acclimatize to some amount of sex as long as it doesn't involve his body.

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@anamikanon, I feel like your impressive level of self-awareness has to be really helpful in your relationships.  You know what works and what doesn’t and how to clearly explain both, and it sounds like that - and perhaps your overall personality - keeps you from getting too entangled in situations that just can’t work without herculean effort.

 

”Envious” may not be the right word, as I couldn’t be like you and still be at all like me, but I’m continually impressed. :)

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