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41 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

It really takes more than that. Pretty much every sexual partner posting on AVEN mentions they felt something was 'off' before they found out about asexuality, not just with frequency, but how their partner did sex. 

The sexual partner thinks up all sorts of reasons for this early on.  I recall thinking my husband just needed to be taught, or that we needed to communicate through our desires. He had none and always maintained, “I don’t have fantasies, I don’t know what you mean!”  To which I thought he had some weird desires he felt shy about expressing.

 

My point is, the “actor” in WW’s scenario would have to act both inside and outside of the bedroom.  Sexual partners know something major is off, we just don’t know why.  Some of those that stick it out search for answers, and many wind up here.

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Yes, I understand your experience well. When taking initiative and asking for certain things that turn me on, he would say, “I’m not a sexual dynamo!”

 

I could break it down to a gnat’s ass hair on what was needed, and he’d still look at me like I had 4 heads. 

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AceMissBehaving
46 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

The sexual partner thinks up all sorts of reasons for this early on.  I recall thinking my husband just needed to be taught, or that we needed to communicate through our desires. He had none and always maintained, “I don’t have fantasies, I don’t know what you mean!”  To which I thought he had some weird desires he felt shy about expressing.

 

My point is, the “actor” in WW’s scenario would have to act both inside and outside of the bedroom.  Sexual partners know something major is off, we just don’t know why.  Some of those that stick it out search for answers, and many wind up here.

I know my husband thought a lot of the same things. To be honest until now I thought frequency was the only reason he thought something was off, but I’m guessing not. I also never even thought of how strange it would seem for someone to not have fantasies to a sexual person, I couldn’t figure why he’d get so hung up on that.

 

I know if my body language was really off, like on a “I’m trying, but I really really can’t” occasion he would stop and we’d both just feel guilty and terrible, so those scenarios always made sense, but I never thought any of the other times would raise red flags too.

 

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14 hours ago, Serran said:

But, I would be OK with I want no one. The I want others not you... yeah, no. 

Then there are those that aren’t wanted by their “partner who wants no one”, yet deeply need to give and receive that connection. It’s truly a mismatch of basic orientation.  In my mind, coming out as asexual (or simply being understood as asexual) is not a better scenario.

 

Frankly, I’d be the least likely suspect to ever be in an open relationship.  It still shocks me sometimes when I stop to think about it. It’s not how I envisioned my life would be, and in many ways, I think it’s beneath me.  However, it is my best option.  

 

So, the tables have turned, and we are where you fear by default. The unwanted now wants another, which leaves the “partner who wants no one” ultimately alone.  Mixed orientation isn’t generally workable regardless of the mismatch.

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Winged Whisperer
55 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

How?  

As a male, my job is to do stuff so my partner reaches orgasm, mission accomplished. It's not rocket science, and sexual partners usually communicate what they want in sex too.

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2 minutes ago, Winged Whisperer said:

As a male, my job is to do stuff so my partner reaches orgasm, mission accomplished. It's not rocket science, and sexual partners usually communicate what they want in sex too.

It may not be rocket science, but it is instinctual as opposed to learned.  If lacking the instinct, the partner inherently knows as there are tells both inside and outside of the bedroom. 

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I came online this morning to talk about this particular issue. So it was interesting to wake up to all of this.  Last night I experienced truly and completely disconnected sex. It was awful. And I should have known better, but I had been out of town for a week, and when I spent time with my boyfriend last night, I was really feeling needy in the pants lol. Usually I'm really good at gauging a situation. If I go in to kiss him and he pulls back after two to three kisses that means he's definitely not into it. He's either tired, or mentally not in the right place. It's pretty easy body language. But last night I was a little whiny. Not in a mean way, more in a slightly pouty way.  Like basically saying I can tell you're not into this, but God damn I'm having a hard time just holding in all of this goddamn sexual energy.

 

I'm never direct, and I never ask. I like things to be fluid. So when I indirectly asked, he knew something was up. And basically he said I could ask and the worst that would happen is he would say no. So I straight up ask, and then we did. And though I know he was totally okay with it, I should have went with my gut instinct which was he wasn't mentally in the right place. It completely read through the entire experience. It all felt extremely off and uncomfortable. I left the situation just feeling like a terrible girlfriend who put their Ace partner in an uncomfortable situation selfishly. I did tell him all this this morning that I felt really bad and I apologized and he told me I hadn't done anything wrong. But I don't want to experience sex like that again with him. It's just really cold and makes me feel sad.

 

I wouldn't say normally when we do occasionally have sex that he's "into it", But it definitely comes from a different place of affection in those moments and not just purely I'm doing this thing for you and that's all I'm doing.  Thank God this forum prepared me for this type of experience ahead of time.

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Winged Whisperer
29 minutes ago, xstatic ☆゚°˖* ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ said:

But it definitely comes from a different place of affection in those moments and not just purely I'm doing this thing for you and that's all I'm doing.

This is something interesting, if you don't mind, what else is there?

 

31 minutes ago, xstatic ☆゚°˖* ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ said:

I left the situation just feeling like a terrible girlfriend who put their Ace partner in an uncomfortable situation selfishly.

This is something my spouse often feels like (even though she doesn't consider me asexual) too, and I always tell her that "no, I'm ok". I honestly don't know why she feels guilty in these situations. Well I do know, but I can't relate to it at all. Like yay, you had your fun and I'm happy that you did, it doesn't matter that I wasn't "into it". I guess it's just one of those other asexual-allosexual differences.

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39 minutes ago, Winged Whisperer said:

This is something interesting, if you don't mind, what else is there?

It's hard to explain.  Harder so for me because he's also aromantic so I can't even say that it comes from a place of romance.  It's more of a feeling from him of 'I really like and trust this person in front of me and I feed off of her affection energy even though I don't reciprocate it normally.' So, like a feedback loop. He gets a charge off of my affection and I can see how it affects him and it makes me really happy.  Once on that cycle, arousal becomes organic and things just happen.

 

39 minutes ago, Winged Whisperer said:

This is something my spouse often feels like (even though she doesn't consider me asexual) too, and I always tell her that "no, I'm ok". I honestly don't know why she feels guilty in these situations. Well I do know, but I can't relate to it at all. Like yay, you had your fun and I'm happy that you did, it doesn't matter that I wasn't "into it". I guess it's just one of those other asexual-allosexual differences.

I'll tell you why.  I've been in relationships where I was pressured into sex by my partner when I wasn't into it.  It's fine now and then, but it can become daunting really quickly and you can end up feeling used and unloved.  I had several secret cries after unwanted sex sessions.  So I don't dare want to make someone else feel that way.  I don't dare be that other person.

 

39 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I think it's because we (sexuals) can't imagine being so unbothered by sex, one way or another. We really want it with partners, we really don't want it with people we don't desire.

I really really want to feel wanted, yes.  You can do all the motions, but if I don't feel wanted, then the sex is completely pointless to me.

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23 minutes ago, xstatic ☆゚°˖* ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ said:

I'll tell you why.  I've been in relationships where I was pressured into sex by my partner when I wasn't into it.  It's fine now and then, but it can become daunting really quickly and you can end up feeling used and unloved.  I had several secret cries after unwanted sex sessions.  So I don't dare want to make someone else feel that way.  I don't dare be that other person.

I can see where you are coming from, but aren't relationships about compromises? Even when two individuals are sexuals and compatible, there are going to be times when one is in the mood and the other isn't, but they have sex anyway because one of them doesn't mind doing it to make the needy partner happy. I get that you dont want to pressure your partner and you almost never do it, but in instances like this when your partner is happy to participate, I am just surprised you feel guilty.

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anisotrophic
7 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

I recall thinking my husband just needed to be taught, or that we needed to communicate through our desires. He had none and always maintained, “I don’t have fantasies, I don’t know what you mean!”  To which I thought he had some weird desires he felt shy about expressing.

So much this.

 

I thought he was just awkward, shy, embarrassed to say. Or that maybe he didn't feel strongly about his "wants" and so didn't want to impose. I really didn't understand the true absence and extent of it.

 

It was devastating to realize there was nothing -- nothing -- I could do. Hard truth, but... I like the truth.
 

6 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

I went through the same thing, with no real response. So I thought well maybe if I, ahem, lead by example, and let fly with a few less vanilla things myself, none of which particularly involved her doing anything much. The result felt like being scrutinised as someone with a microscope studies creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water.

Ugh. I went through a demanding phase, a phase where I did more, and he went along with it, said it was ok... but it was clear he wasn't getting anything out of it. I didn't feel scrutinized at the time, but in retrospect, I feel embarrassed by it. He's kind about it, assures me that he was willing, I'm a normal person, I didn't do anything wrong.

 

5 hours ago, xstatic ☆゚°˖* ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ said:

I wouldn't say normally when we do occasionally have sex that he's "into it", But it definitely comes from a different place of affection in those moments and not just purely I'm doing this thing for you and that's all I'm doing. 

Yeah, I think this is why I've moved to never asking. I think I'd just rather have hugs than the latter scenario. (He is very physically affectionate in a nonsexual way.)

It probably means we have less and less sex, and I think that's for the best -- to have this decline in a gradual, loving, mutually supportive way. I think I'm pretty happy with knowing I'm allowed to be sexual with someone else someday, and focusing on nonsexual love & bonding with my partner.

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7 hours ago, Winged Whisperer said:

As a male, my job is to do stuff so my partner reaches orgasm, mission accomplished. It's not rocket science, and sexual partners usually communicate what they want in sex too.

Sadly no, and this is one of the most difficult things to communicate with an asexual person. My wife also tries to figure out what works "best", no understanding that an orgasm is not the goal, though it is generally a necessary part of a good sexual interaction.   Look at it this way: almost all men and most women can give themselves an orgasm quickly and easily when they want to  - if that were the goal, why bother with all the effort of sex with a partner. 

 

Think of food - the goal of a nice dinner out is not to absorb nutrition - even though  that is an essential part of dinner. Anyone can stop for fast food to get nourishment if they want - but most still prefer a good dinner.

 

The problem is that an asexual generally cannot provide the sort of two way intimacy and connection that mot sexuals want.  Sex will always be a chore to an asexual - maybe it can sometimes be a "gift" for their partner which is fine, but it will always feel too one-sided. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Chihiro said:

I can see where you are coming from, but aren't relationships about compromises? Even when two individuals are sexuals and compatible, there are going to be times when one is in the mood and the other isn't, but they have sex anyway because one of them doesn't mind doing it to make the needy partner happy. I get that you dont want to pressure your partner and you almost never do it, but in instances like this when your partner is happy to participate, I am just surprised you feel guilty.

Sex is so essential to relationships for sexuals, that while compromise in individual instances is fine, when overall it is a chore for one person, something major is missing. 

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10 hours ago, Winged Whisperer said:

As a male, my job is to do stuff so my partner reaches orgasm, mission accomplished. It's not rocket science, and sexual partners usually communicate what they want in sex too.

That really, really isnt the "job" of sex. 

 

My partner has an external reason her desire is blocked for me. She still at times had sex with me during these blocks, and, she knows how to make me orgasm so that was never an issue. But, honestly, it just increased my insecurity and absolute feeling that she didn't want me. Why? Because despite trying to lie and hide this block of hers, it was obvious with the luke warm responses, the mechanical sex, the flat flirtations. When you are wanted all of that is fun and easy and mutual. It is a relaxed atmosphere and the partner's feelings radiate to you. When its just going through the motions, it is something I pulled back from. And when she noticed the pulling back she defended it with just havent been in the mood.. so sex kinda went away cause if she isnt in the mood, I would rather not bother. It isn't fun without the mutual feeling. And she didn't push, cause she knew I would feel something was off if we tried. 

 

Now she admitted the reason behind the block, we are working on it. And its frickin' hard. But, her desire for me is coming back. And hopefully one day it won't take effort to get it. 

 

But, yeah, if my options are luke warm sex with someone trying to fake interest or nothing I would rather have nothing. If I want an orgasm, I can just go get a vibrator. I want the mutual feeling of desire and mutual pleasure from my partner. I want to be able to tease her and have her beg me to stop (in the good way). 

 

10 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

Then there are those that aren’t wanted by their “partner who wants no one”, yet deeply need to give and receive that connection. It’s truly a mismatch of basic orientation.  In my mind, coming out as asexual (or simply being understood as asexual) is not a better scenario.

 

Frankly, I’d be the least likely suspect to ever be in an open relationship.  It still shocks me sometimes when I stop to think about it. It’s not how I envisioned my life would be, and in many ways, I think it’s beneath me.  However, it is my best option.  

 

So, the tables have turned, and we are where you fear by default. The unwanted now wants another, which leaves the “partner who wants no one” ultimately alone.  Mixed orientation isn’t generally workable regardless of the mismatch.

It is a mismatch, which doesnt work for all. A lot of sexuals cannot handle it. But, it still isn't the same as homosexual/straight. That is a lot less likely to work because the homosexual will want someone else, but not their partner. There are a scattering of working mixed couples, who entered the relationships with eyes open and knowing the mismatch from the word go (which is important). I doubt there could be as many gay/straight successful relationships. Doesn't make it any easier for those that can't handle it and are in mixed relationships they didn't choose though.  

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4 hours ago, anisotrophic said:

I thought he was just awkward, shy, embarrassed to say. Or that maybe he didn't feel strongly about his "wants" and so didn't want to impose. I really didn't understand the true absence and extent of it.

 

It was devastating to realize there was nothing -- nothing -- I could do. Hard truth, but... I like the truth.
 

It's pretty devastating to an asexual, also, to realize that their partner is going to do all sorts of things to try to make them feel/do stuff they really don't feel.   Even if they're willing to do those things, they can't feel them.  

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anisotrophic
2 minutes ago, Sally said:

It's pretty devastating to an asexual, also, to realize that their partner is going to do all sorts of things to try to make them feel/do stuff they really don't feel.   Even if they're willing to do those things, they can't feel them.  

Why would anyone be "going to do" that if they understand their partner is asexual? That's when I *stopped*.

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14 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

Why would anyone be "going to do" that if they understand their partner is asexual? That's when I *stopped*.

Knowing what someone has told  you and understanding that it's true are not  the same thing.  

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1 hour ago, xstatic ☆゚°˖* ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ said:

Another reason why I felt like shit after last night.  I felt like I disrespected his identity.

If you're worried about that, I'd bet that you didn't.  I was talking about people who simply haven't really tried to  understand what the asexual is feeling but are trying to "fix" them.  

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anisotrophic

@xstatic ☆゚°˖* ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ yeah, I've been told to stop feeling guilty about things like that.

 

Really, don't. He said something like "the whole point is I want you to be happy so... that sucks" -- important point right? It's disappointing to do something for someone and have them unhappy about it.

 

@Sally when I said it was devastating for a sexual to realize their partner is asexual, I meant actually realize it -- not fight the idea -- but to have all the puzzle pieces fall together to form a terrible conclusion.

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AceMissBehaving
4 hours ago, xstatic ☆゚°˖* ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ said:

Another reason why I felt like shit after last night.  I felt like I disrespected his identity.

As someone who is both asexual, and someone who has been the one sat crying in a bathroom over unwanted sex, I can say this...

 

The experiences where I’ve had sex to please my partner because I knew how badly they needed it, even though I just couldn’t get in the mood, and the bad times where I felt I had to do it and felt used are worlds apart.

 

The first one comes from a place of love. I still felt good about being able to do something for my partner.

 

The other came from a place of fear, and I don’t get any of that vibe from your post at all.

 

I know how hard it can be dealing with CPTSD, but I hope this helps some.

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Winged Whisperer
3 hours ago, AceMissBehaving said:

As someone who is both asexual, and someone who has been the one sat crying in a bathroom over unwanted sex, I can say this...

 

The experiences where I’ve had sex to please my partner because I knew how badly they needed it, even though I just couldn’t get in the mood, and the bad times where I felt I had to do it and felt used are worlds apart. 

  

The first one comes from a place of love. I still felt good about being able to do something for my partner. 

  

The other came from a place of fear, and I don’t get any of that vibe from your post at all. 

I've been in the same boat and concur.

 

If it means anything, honestly from what I've read @xstatic ☆゚°˖* ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ you're like the model allosexual partner an asexual could have, so don't feel bad or guilty.

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Okay, thanks everyone.  This all made me feel a lot better this morning.  I think that I've been extra sensitive because of my trip home.  I left home feeling the way I always do when I leave.  Empty, isolated, outcast and alone.  My mother is a racist, homophobic, sexist Boomer wrapped up in religious delusion.  She makes me feel like crap every time we interact (which isn't often).  I think that when I got back here I was desperate for connection and not my usual self.  I think that I was feeling even more isolated and alone yesterday and was probably punishing myself way too much.  Maybe tonight I'll have the guts to talk to him about all of this, but I probably won't.

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I hope your night went well @Serran!  Insecurity is no fun.  Just remember that everyone cycles though those feelings.  Brains are loud.

 

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On 7/17/2019 at 7:54 AM, xstatic ☆゚°˖* ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ said:

I came online this morning to talk about this particular issue. So it was interesting to wake up to all of this.  Last night I experienced truly and completely disconnected sex. It was awful. And I should have known better, but I had been out of town for a week, and when I spent time with my boyfriend last night, I was really feeling needy in the pants lol. Usually I'm really good at gauging a situation. If I go in to kiss him and he pulls back after two to three kisses that means he's definitely not into it. He's either tired, or mentally not in the right place. It's pretty easy body language. But last night I was a little whiny. Not in a mean way, more in a slightly pouty way.  Like basically saying I can tell you're not into this, but God damn I'm having a hard time just holding in all of this goddamn sexual energy.

 

I'm never direct, and I never ask. I like things to be fluid. So when I indirectly asked, he knew something was up. And basically he said I could ask and the worst that would happen is he would say no. So I straight up ask, and then we did. And though I know he was totally okay with it, I should have went with my gut instinct which was he wasn't mentally in the right place. It completely read through the entire experience. It all felt extremely off and uncomfortable. I left the situation just feeling like a terrible girlfriend who put their Ace partner in an uncomfortable situation selfishly. I did tell him all this this morning that I felt really bad and I apologized and he told me I hadn't done anything wrong. But I don't want to experience sex like that again with him. It's just really cold and makes me feel sad.

 

I wouldn't say normally when we do occasionally have sex that he's "into it", But it definitely comes from a different place of affection in those moments and not just purely I'm doing this thing for you and that's all I'm doing.  Thank God this forum prepared me for this type of experience ahead of time.

That is miserable.   I think it happens quite a bit in mixed relationships.   Sometimes during sex I'll realize that my wife really isn't into it and is just unhappily doing things for me and trying to get it over with quickly. Its so difficult to deal with. If I continue I feel bad afterwards.  If I tell her to stop she feels bad because she "failed".  It just turns into anmess. Meanwhile I'm so aroused that its difficult to stop and.... its just bad all around.

 

 

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anisotrophic

I've become avoidant of experiencing attraction and initiating these days. Intimacy now involves him reassuring me that it's OK to feel desire and be aroused, everything is so backwards! 🙃 But it works. 😛

 

I hope you survive the brain weasels @Serran!

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I can't avoid feeling attraction.  I'm brimming with it.  But I am definitely going to avoid initiating it like I did the other night.  I'm going back to what I know works.  👍

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On 7/16/2019 at 7:56 PM, Serran said:

And I know for me... wanting others over me is the worst feeling in the world. Not wanting me, OK, I can at least take comfort in no one is wanted. Which, doesn't solve the issue for a lot of sexuals. But, I would be OK with I want no one. The I want others not you... yeah, no. 

 

Oi... I think I'd deal with everything much better if that were the case for us - if my Owner was just ace and that was that, no sex with anyone ever....
Them being poly and having a bit of a libido during the NRE stage is, in all likelihood, going to freaking shatter me. 

 

I mean sure, Their libido with the new relationship'll die just like our did, but for those few months or whatever?
I'm lucky They haven't met anyone else They wanna date yet, cause I'm not honestly sure I can deal with it - the dry spell is really screwing with me as it is, without adding in the "being with others, just not ME" aspect of it.

 

 

 

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