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Sexual Compromise & Support


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16 hours ago, ryn2 said:

If you aren’t comfortable disclosing the truth about their parents’ relationship to them, but are worried they could repeat the same mistake, can you talk to them about it more generally (something a friend went through, e.g.)?

I'm not hopeful for two reasons. The first is that I have a son who is not comfortable in his own skin, is autistic and has few but caring male friends (no females) and the second is that my other able son (I have a third son who is severely mentally and physically disabled) shows and has shown in the past absolutely no interest in any relationship, male or female.

We don't push this subject on our son as my M in L used to public admonish her son ( my wife's bachelor brother ) for not getting a partner. He tried it once but it all fell through as we think he was asexual and didn't fit into his then partners aspirations of having children. They weren't married.

 

So there you have it, I don't see any movement n the horizon but my SO is always worried about it. I did mention once that he was possibly asexual or at least on that spectrum.

She didn't respond. 

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I suppose if they have no interest in relationships at all they may be fine, in that they won’t end up in one to start with...

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You could work with your wife on just a general introduction to the various orientations that exist for your kids. In todays society, that is useful anyway. If they know asexual is an option and they are ace, it is more likely they will notice the difference between themselves and their peers. Its the not knowing people can even be uninterested that pulls people to assume they will just be OK. Knowing the option is there just leaves it open to confusion same as gay people may confuse their orientation to start and cant prevent that. 

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20 hours ago, Apostle said:

it's the fact that my children, now in their twenties may never know the truth.

I hope one day they will, just so they don't make the same mistake as I did. Best for them not to have a relationship and not suffer the consequences of mental anguish for the rest of their lives.

 

Whoa. Please consult a therapist before telling your children all about your sex life in an attempt to terrify them into perpetual singledom. In no way, shape or form is it acceptable for a parent to shame their children out of healthy experimentation and exploration just because they didn't enjoy their own sex life. 

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21 minutes ago, Skullery Maid said:

Whoa. Please consult a therapist before telling your children all about your sex life in an attempt to terrify them into perpetual singledom. In no way, shape or form is it acceptable for a parent to shame their children out of healthy experimentation and exploration just because they didn't enjoy their own sex life. 

Yes. Therapists don't advise parents do that, either (using their child as their therapist, telling them everything about their stressful lives, relationships, etc.), as it puts stress and worry onto the child, causing anxiety. This was done to me, since I was very young--my parents always had arguments and told me and my sibling that we shouldn't get married or else we'd end up as miserable they were.

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37 minutes ago, Skullery Maid said:

Whoa. Please consult a therapist before telling your children all about your sex life in an attempt to terrify them into perpetual singledom. In no way, shape or form is it acceptable for a parent to shame their children out of healthy experimentation and exploration just because they didn't enjoy their own sex life. 

Yeah, I have to agree with this too...  my mom unloaded a bunch of things on me when I was in college that ultimately led me to make some really bad decisions “to make her happy” (which was of course impossible to begin with).

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22 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

@Apostle

 

Have you ever wondered if your wife is on the autistic spectrum too? 

No, I haven't. Our first son was adopted so he is not biologically related to either of us.

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20 hours ago, Skullery Maid said:

Whoa. Please consult a therapist before telling your children all about your sex life in an attempt to terrify them into perpetual singledom. In no way, shape or form is it acceptable for a parent to shame their children out of healthy experimentation and exploration just because they didn't enjoy their own sex life. 

Ha! I think you misinterpreted my sentence there! I was talking about her being asexual and the repercussions on a partnership with a sexual person. No way would I mention our sex life (not that I've got one anyway).

All I'm stating is that both of them have never shown any interest in a partner. They are in their mid twenties now.

Most sexuals show some form of interest in their teens hence my concern.

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20 hours ago, InquisitivePhilosopher said:

This was done to me, since I was very young--my parents always had arguments and told me and my sibling that we shouldn't get married or else we'd end up as miserable they were.

And has it? You state that you are asexual. Is that a possible reason why your parents were miserable, in that one of them was asexual?

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1 hour ago, Apostle said:

Ha! I think you misinterpreted my sentence there! I was talking about her being asexual and the repercussions on a partnership with a sexual person. No way would I mention our sex life (not that I've got one anyway).

It’s not talking about sex/sex lives specifically that’s problematic... it’s telling/showing kids too much of what you might confide to an adult friend about how there are problems in your relationship, you are unhappy because of it, etc.

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I have two sons- one almost 20 and the other 24.  I think an honest discussion about the importance of understanding ones sexuality and the NEEDS of your potential life mate are essential, before committing.  Especially if there is a possibility that asexuality is a familial trait ( my situation).  Apostle probably feels like me- anything we can do to avoid watching our grown children have relationship pain and failure is worth considering.

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2 hours ago, ryn2 said:

It’s not talking about sex/sex lives specifically that’s problematic... it’s telling/showing kids too much of what you might confide to an adult friend about how there are problems in your relationship, you are unhappy because of it, etc.

Again, I would never do that, sharing personal experiences with my children. It's common sense for most people of course.

I would present the facts of sexual and asexual partnerships and how devastating they can be for one or both partners. Giving them this information would make them more careful when choosing a partner.

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1 hour ago, Apostle said:

Again, I would never do that, sharing personal experiences with my children. It's common sense for most people of course.

I would present the facts of sexual and asexual partnerships and how devastating they can be for one or both partners. Giving them this information would make them more careful when choosing a partner.

Agreed, that makes sense.

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On 12/8/2012 at 1:09 PM, Lady Girl said:

One thing I've noticed that might give me the most difficulty, is a monthly lapse in composure. It seems to be hormone related...I do a lot of crying and for some reason focus on the relationship and the lack of sexual intimacy in it. I know it makes my husband feel bad, and I often say things that I don't even believe are true myself (like, "you just don't care"). Anyway, I always regret having been so vocal, and think to myself "that is the last time I'm going to do that". I really wish I could break away from that, it feels so pointless and detrimental overall.

I constantly do the same and why the hell shouldn't we voice how we feel to them. They have absolutely no idea what it's like to have sexual urges that need satisfying and how that makes us feel.  The same as we don't understand what it like to have none so why do we always have to compose ourselves and not say what we feel. They just carry on regardless. Sometimes I think asexual people who have become involved in a relationship with a sexual person are incredibly selfish and self centered and the only person they are really interested in is themselves. 

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On 12/10/2012 at 3:44 PM, PlayfulSadism said:

Some of this is going to sound entitled and whiny. Forcing my emotions to act in accordance to my reason isn't always fast or easy.

The lack of sex isn't the most uncomfortable part of my mixed relationship. I do feel hurt when the thought of my partner not desiring me crosses my mind, but my main issue arises mostly from my self-esteem issues. I worry that the lack of sexual intimacy in our relationship will make some of my less appealing qualities carry that much more weight in determining whether we stay together. Furthermore, while we're attempting to find a good middle ground on sexual activity, she invariably loses interest and disengages before I can find release. It means the world to me that she's trying, and I'm afraid to ask for more because she's already doing more than she'd care to (i.e. zero), and putting more pressure on her doesn't seem fair.

I know that compromise isn't always an equivalent exchange, but in some of my less charitable moments, I feel like I'm getting a raw deal. I know that isn't true, but it's hard to feel that my needs are equally considered when one partner has all the power considering sex.

To clarify, I mean that I don't have any bargaining chips. Changing my normal behavior to try and "earn" sex is dishonest, and I can't use the appeal of sex itself to try and elicit a response. Everything we do hinges on how generous she's feeling, and while she has been thus far, I still feel like I've been reduced to a tame animal who's begging for table scraps.

OMG at last someone who totally gets how I feel about asexuals. Why should we (the sexual part of the party) have to constantly demene ourselves and like you said try and earn sex! I've done this for 40 years now and by god I've become the most hateful bitter and twisted person on the planet I think. They do not realise how much they hurt us playing constantly with our emotions. Sometimes I just feel they use it as a tool to manipulate and get exactly what they want.

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On 12/19/2012 at 7:38 PM, kisabunnie said:

Compromise is important but it is definitely hard. I am not asexual, but dated someone who is. This was my first relationship romantically and physically, I think that's important to note because at the time I didn't have much to go on or compare my relationship to. Although we were friends before the relationship, and remained friends after, the time spent in between being in a relationship with each other was difficult, especially once he came out to me as asexual.

At first it was just a decrease in sex, but once I confronted him about going from a lot of sex to none for months, he said that he just didn't like sex, that it made him uncomfortable. As a sexual person, this was difficult for me to accept. I had the typical thoughts that it was something about me that was sexually unappealing, or that I had been doing something wrong.

I did not want to lose our relationship over sex. People say sex isn't important, ideally. But if you're sexual, it is. My first question to him was if he was not sexually interested in me, did he still want to continue dating. He told me he did, but did not see how it would work for me in the long run because he knew he would be disappointing me on some level. I told him that worst case scenario we give a sexless relationship a try and it does not work out.

So we did, and it didn't work out. He broke it off with the reasoning he only saw us as friends.

It is important to draw the line in the sand, and find out what sexual act does or does not cross it. Once my friend came out, anything beyond kissing and cuddling was unacceptable. Although that provided me with some of what I was looking for, I still wanted more. At the time it seemed unfair to me that I had to suppress my desires for him. Gradually our relationship got to the point where I did not feel the romance, nor did he; it was like we were friends who liked to hold hands and occasionally kiss.

I do not have much understanding of asexuality and what it is to be asexual but I do know sex is a hard thing to compromise on, especially once you have experienced a sexual relationship with your partner. To me it seems there will always be someone getting the short end of the stick, and that is not a compromise. I do not know if it is possible for a compromise to exist between a sexual and an asexual person, at least it didn't between me and my friend. Best of luck to those who are trying to find that compromise.

-Kisa

So wish I'd had the sense to get out of the relationship 40 years ago!

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@Peppy please take care not to generalize issues with your own partner to apply to all asexual folks. Many have a lot of caring, empathy, and try their best to make a sexual partner happy. They may force themselves to be having very upsetting sex (this is especially possible for asexual women).

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4 hours ago, Peppy said:

OMG at last someone who totally gets how I feel about asexuals. Why should we (the sexual part of the party) have to constantly demene ourselves and like you said try and earn sex! I've done this for 40 years now and by god I've become the most hateful bitter and twisted person on the planet I think. They do not realise how much they hurt us playing constantly with our emotions. Sometimes I just feel they use it as a tool to manipulate and get exactly what they want.

Dude.... You sound like the most resentful person ever.  If you are that miserable in your relationship, leave?  If you feel like your partner is manipulative, then leave?

 

You don't get to demonize all asexuals based on your one experience.  They're people.  With just as many rights and feelings as you.  They're not monsters.  Jesus.

 

And if you're a person who doesn't want sex but your partner pushes for it, (And I'm guessing you did that.  And I'm going to assume that you were very vocal in your unhappiness, and probably blamed your partner for your unhappiness) then you will start to resent the sex more and more.  You will feel the disconnect.  And you will start to feel dirty and used and incredibly unloved.

 

I know these things because I went through a larger period of time in my last marriage where I started to become disinterested in sex and eventually completely put off by it.  You know what turned it around for me?  The second my husband actually took a different approach and tried to understand ME and what I was feeling and stopped being an asshole about everything.

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4 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Yep, because the default assumption on AVEN is that asexuals are never at fault and sexuals are doing something wrong...

Is it?  I've seen more of a general sense of confusion based on a lack of understanding between asexuals and sexuals.

 

But then again you've been here way longer than I have. 

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I guess off the top of my head I can think of various conversations where the consensus was that if an asexual knowingly went into a relationship with a sexual under false pretenses and didn't disclose their orientation until the relationships was much more serious it is considered manipulative and a form of entrapment.

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It's easier to do that when you feel like the victim of society.  Aces are generally not recognized, and often they are looked down upon just for being who they are.  I'm going to guess that can cause backlash when it's brought up in a relationship, simply because they are constantly defending themselves and their identity.

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I don't think we should go overboard to defend or malign, especially absent parties. It's valuable to bring in explanations for why a sexual or asexual partner might have a certain behavior, but also recognize that in both demographics, as ever: some people are assholes, but it doesn't mean they all are.

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Or more.. asexuals are more likely to give reasons sexuals likely dont think of when presented with a familiar scenario.

 

Since sexuals say things like it feels abusive my partner doesnt want sex. Or it feels like lying my partner didnt tell me before we dated (even when the partner probably didnt know). Or its unfair my partner wont just have sex, it shouldnt be worse than me doing chores I dont like, etc. Or I cant believe my partner wont talk about how much them being what they are hurts me (after already talking about it and realizing its a thing neither can change and both have to live with and deciding to stay together), they could at least say I know im making you miserable and im sorry every so often..  and they cant get why that might not be a relationship model the ace finds healthy. 

 

Most people arent trying to hurt their partners, really. They just want to be happy. So sexuals often push too far, asexuals often go into avoidance. And then both sides end up with bias for the side they relate to when the story gets told. So sexuals jump to defend sexuals as not in the wrong. Aces jump to explain the asexual side. And given its an ace site... 

 

Truth: its an incompatibility issue and from the side of making a relationship work, both sides are "wrong " cause they have incompatible needs. And you cant push people to be what they arent. Whether that is incompatible sexual needs, emotional needs, communication needs, etc. Either you mesh well as a unit or you dont. 

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Aces can be selfish and insensitive. I'm with @Telecaster68 that I'm not a fan of watching people jump so quickly to defend am absent ace that sounds like they may be as asshole. People owe their partner respect and caring. Some aces are assholes.

 

I have no reason to believe aces are more selfish and insensitive than other demographics. I'm not a fan of watching sexuals make negative blanket statements about asexuals, as @Peppy did, based on a specific partner's behavior. Not all aces are assholes.

 

@Peppy's partner may be an asshole: not acting with respect and caring. It's valuable to pitch other theories but it's dismissive of you don't keep that possibility in mind.

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2 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

Aces can be selfish and insensitive. I'm with @Telecaster68 that I'm not a fan of watching people jump so quickly to defend am absent ace that sounds like they may be as asshole. People owe their partner respect and caring. Some aces are assholes.

 

I have no reason to believe aces are more selfish and insensitive than other demographics. I'm not a fan of watching sexuals make negative blanket statements about asexuals, as @Peppy did, based on a specific partner's behavior. Not all aces are assholes.

 

@Peppy's partner may be an asshole: not acting with respect and caring. It's valuable to pitch other theories but it's dismissive of you don't keep that possibility in mind.

They could be. Or they could have been very caring to start and now are as bitter as Peppy, thus all the good memories are tainted and all we hear is the bad. Most likely over 32 years of arguments and misery they have both changed for the worse. We cant really judge either side as anything, given we only hear one side of the story. If you ask my abusive ex about my behavior they would say I was the problem (and deny a lot of the physical stuff they did). You just cant know. So to the person themselves you can discuss their behavior and for other people you can give potential reasons for the behavior, since you cant ask them anything for clarity. 

 

But... honestly, not talking about sex doesnt make one a jerk. Just means you arent comfy discussing it for some reason. Could be a lot of reasons. Doesnt mean someone has to put up with it, they can hate it and makes sense they should. From what Peppy said, their husband grew up in a boarding situation with little experience before her so doubt he purposefully deceived. 32 years ago and sheltered, I never would have known anything about sex, or my desires. 

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Not talking about "the sex thing" when it's continuing to cause a partner pain is not "caring" or "respect" in my book.

 

If it's too uncomfortable to act with caring and respect, leave. Partners are owed caring and respect.

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24 minutes ago, Serran said:

...We cant really judge either side as anything, given we only hear one side of the story. If you ask my abusive ex about my behavior they would say I was the problem (and deny a lot of the physical stuff they did). You just cant know. So to the person themselves you can discuss their behavior and for other people you can give potential reasons for the behavior, since you cant ask them anything for clarity...

Yes. I've seen relatives do that, too, just trying to blame each other and make them seem like they're "bad/evil," etc. It didn't solve anything; they just wanted to rant and rant, without changing themselves, trying to improve their own feelings or their situation. Some people might refrain from judging others' partners because it isn't right for others to judge someone to automatically be "cruel/bad," when they don't know them or their explanations/feelings at all and are only hearing their partner's judgements about them, which might not actually be the truth about their feelings or intentions at all. It's not about trying to make out that all asexuals are blameless "victims," but to not be so quick to judge; it's what therapists, do, too, trying to help couples solve problems, together, rather than to blame or judge.

 

Some asexuals just try to explain how difficult and confusing it is for asexuals to grow up in a world not knowing their sexual orientation until later on in life, than sexual people (due to not being taught about it in sex ed, the way heterosexuality is).

 

Some sexual and asexual people have grown up sexually abused, have PTSD and aren't always able to immediately feel comfortable having sex with their partner. Do sexuals get mad at sexuals for not being able to have sex with them, or as much as they'd want it; certain positions, etc. (even though it wasn't their fault or choice to be abused)?

 

 

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12 minutes ago, InquisitivePhilosopher said:

It's not about trying to make out that all asexuals are blameless "victims," but to not be so quick to judge

It's important to include with these "alternate explanations" in the hopes that people view asexual partners with empathy. You need to include the possibility that an asexual partner may be acting in a selfish manner. Rejecting a partner sexually hurts and caring about pain matters.

I'm in particular astonished when people jump to defend older cis men who seem to be asexual -- and it seems to me like they're basing that empathy on experiences of younger women. Men tend to be socialized to act selfishly with respect to women, ace men are not magically exempt. Certainly this is far from all men, and there are plenty of selfish women, but a lot of women have sacrificed a lot of happiness at the altar of male entitlement -- and that sacrifice might include their sexuality.

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4 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

All that's fine. But the flipside is that sexual partners seldom get the same consideration, beyond a token 'some sexual people really need sex as part of a relationship'.

It’s probably not surprising that, on the forums of a site dedicated to asexuality, asexuals get the benefit of the doubt more often. Likewise, in venues focused more on those suffering a lack of sex (e.g., “dead bedroom” forums/threads), it’s more common to see people jump to the defense of the sexual/higher-libido partner.

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(and I’m sure there are plenty of

selfish aces... and ace jerks... just like there are plenty of selfish people and jerks of any other orientation; I just don’t find it surprising that a predominately ace, grey, and ace-centric crowd errs on the side of “there could be a good reason for this ace person’s behavior” more often)

 

Then again, I’m a benefit-of-the-doubt person (or, at least, a “let’s be fair... it could be any of these things” [even though I privately think they’re being a jerk] person) so I suppose seeing the benefit of the doubt given never surprises me.

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