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Sexual Compromise & Support


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Just now, ryn2 said:

I agree.  Some people are better actors, some are probably more or less predisposed to notice.  Especially when they have little or nothing to compare to...

You beat me to it! I didn't have a lot to compare with and, like I say, with that initial excitement it was pretty easy to overlook, for us both to different degrees. It was only when things slowed down to a more natural pace that the "offness" became obvious.

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Also, especially years ago, not all ace people realize(d) they were significantly different than others.  Those that did often didn’t realize there were (however few) potential partners more like themselves to choose from and instead thought they needed to work to fit in.

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24 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

When she no longer wanted to masturbate, I was no longer used, and she didn't see why this would be a problem.

She’s never sounded very people-focused when you describe her... she may have figured you were doing the same thing.

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It's hard to work it out 15 years later but I had had several other partners, and I thought my partner was just reserved... also, we had a long distance relationship which ended on getting married & moving in together (visa reasons for the joint change). I think an LDR can lead to unconscious planning and scripts, making it harder to sense anything is off during a visit. Something was off was obvious as soon as we were living together, attributed to the stress of the move (and then other reasons, etc etc). Plus he experiences physical pleasure and responds to romantic elements so I guess I was initially thinking "he's just being shy or embarrassed about wanting it".

 

On his end he didn't realize the absence,  he had a couple relationships because others were interested -- he says he was never living in the same city so... maybe that's how it never really uncovered itself on his end, relationships were always somewhat scheduled in sexual intimacy... and for him it was all a bit like not realizing one is colorblind and just going along with what everyone is saying. Asexuality is pretty diverse.

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10 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Also, especially years ago, not all ace people realize(d) they were significantly different than others.  Those that did often didn’t realize there were (however few) potential partners more like themselves to choose from and instead thought they needed to work to fit in.

Agree and think this is still very much the case. My wife has said that, although she hadn’t particularly enjoyed sex before meeting me, she always assumed she would when she fell in love with someone. I guess in that kind if instance awareness of the possibility isn’t enough, you’ve just got to experience it to really know for sure.

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4 hours ago, anewman said:

Agree and think this is still very much the case. My wife has said that, although she hadn’t particularly enjoyed sex before meeting me, she always assumed she would when she fell in love with someone. I guess in that kind if instance awareness of the possibility isn’t enough, you’ve just got to experience it to really know for sure.

Hopefully now that it’s discussed more openly in many places kids/young adults today will be more aware it’s an option from the beginning.

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20 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Hopefully now that it’s discussed more openly in many places kids/young adults today will be more aware it’s an option from

the beginning.

Absolutely, and even for couples finding themselves confronting a mixed relationship, that pre-existing knowledge/awareness and subsequent understanding might hopefully soften the shock and make communication easy in the crucial early stages.

 

Though as I write this (and I sincerely, totally agree with you), I realise that if this were the case in my situation then I probably would never have entered a relationship with my spouse, so in a selfish way I'm glad this didn't happen for me. Because whatever trouble we have it's still been possible to have a relationship that satisfies us both in all the ways we need and I wouldn't change it for anything.

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I sure didn't grow up knowing asexuality existed. And not having any close girl-friends, I also assumed that the way I experienced life was the norm and everyone else exaggerated or embellished their stories. And the media spelled it out for us how our mating rituals were supposed to look. So in the midst of mtv videos and big hair commercials, girls were raised to hide their "flaws" behind make-up and wonder bras and laugh at dumb jokes. I'm totally guilty of acting sexual because it was what was expected of me at the time? Didn't everyone adjust their gait to fit in with a certain group at one point or another? Don't think bad of

 your asexual partners for pretending. it was all with best intentions.  It gets lonley being a 1%er. And more so if you think youre the only weirdo.

25 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Hopefully now that it’s discussed more openly in many places kids/young adults today will be more aware it’s an option from

the beginning.

 If I think back on all the things we tried to see what might turn me on... would have been nice to know then. 

 

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3 hours ago, anewman said:

Absolutely, and even for couples finding themselves confronting a mixed relationship, that pre-existing knowledge/awareness and subsequent understanding might hopefully soften the shock and make communication easy in the crucial early stages.

 

Though as I write this (and I sincerely, totally agree with you), I realise that if this were the case in my situation then I probably would never have entered a relationship with my spouse, so in a selfish way I'm glad this didn't happen for me. Because whatever trouble we have it's still been possible to have a relationship that satisfies us both in all the ways we need and I wouldn't change it for anything.

Well, that is always the risk, no?  We think things are dealbreakers when they aren’t, or find out they are when we thought we could work past them.

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3 hours ago, Nima said:

I'm totally guilty of acting sexual because it was what was expected of me at the time? Didn't everyone adjust their gait to fit in with a certain group at one point or another? Don't think bad of your asexual partners for pretending. it was all with best intentions.

...on top of which, it’s (for me, at least) really difficult to sort out for myself all these years later what was real and what was pretend.

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The whole issue of recognizing when a partner is unhappy is tricky.  Sometimes its obvious, other times the unhappy person will hide it.  Some times people don't see what they don't want to see.  Sometimes even with the best of intentions its tricky - when we do have sex, my wife's "happy" noises and "unhappy" noises  are surprisingly similar.  

 

The real solution is *communicate*.   Don't expect your partner to necessarily be able to read your reactions. 

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Yep, and sometimes a partner is often/regularly unhappy, at which point it becomes difficult to pick sex- or even relationship-related unhappiness out from the background noise.

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11 hours ago, ryn2 said:

Yep, and sometimes a partner is often/regularly unhappy, at which point it becomes difficult to pick sex- or even relationship-related unhappiness out from the background noise.

And sometimes sex *is* the background issue.  For some people it can have strong effect on overall happiness.  

 

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20 hours ago, anewman said:

Agree and think this is still very much the case. My wife has said that, although she hadn’t particularly enjoyed sex before meeting me, she always assumed she would when she fell in love with someone. I guess in that kind if instance awareness of the possibility isn’t enough, you’ve just got to experience it to really know for sure.

This is another tragic case.  I think some women (maybe including my wife) though that with the "right person" sex would be desirable and wonderful. If they don't desire sex with their partner the feel that somehow that partner isn't "the one". 

 

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3 hours ago, uhtred said:

And sometimes sex *is* the background issue.  For some people it can have strong effect on overall happiness.  

 

I’m sure it could be, but there are also times it isn’t and someone seems just as unhappy with or without.

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3 hours ago, uhtred said:

This is another tragic case.  I think some women (maybe including my wife) though that with the "right person" sex would be desirable and wonderful. If they don't desire sex with their partner the feel that somehow that partner isn't "the one". 

 

That’s definitely the message we were taught years ago.

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@anamikanon Thanks for the information, that's very thoughtful! But I have already been down the medical/physical route to solving my 'problem', and for my specific issue (not wishing to go into details) there isn't any treatment with any good quality supporting evidence, so I eventually came to the realisation that trying to pursue a solution that doesn't exist was actually the cause of my unhappiness, rather than the pain/lack of interest in sex itself. Now that I have accepted my body and mind for how they are I'm much much happier. Not only do I not have to deal with medical professionals who don't listen any more (very distressing), but I can also appreciate that being different is not bad - e.g. I'm not in chronic pain in my day to day life. There are many women with my problem in a much much worse situation than me who struggle with severe incapacitating pain every day, not to mention the victims of FGM, or people who are paralysed from the waist down - for all these groups pleasurable sex is no longer part of their lives either - I'm actually incredicbly lucky in the grand scheme of things.

It's interesing to think that while quite a few doctors were trying to push me to do a course of mindfulness to try to change my libido, none of them ever managed to think of the idea of just accepting it as it was - quite ironic given the core ideas mindfulness is based on!

It was only this website that really finally helped me get over it actually. That and the psychosexual therapy with my partner - that helped with figuring out other things we like, other ways to connect, and also with our compromise which was a big part of realising I could be happy as I am.

I used to think I would be alone forever, which is why hearing about other non-standard intimate relationships is so nice, just to know there are actually loads of people out there figuing out different ways to love.

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In terms of the idea of noticing/not noticing that the person you are having sex with is uninterested, the very depressing thing is that there are some people who simply don't care - there are plenty out there who are very aware of another person's lack of interest but will happily ignore this for their own ends.

I think sex education needs to improve on a number of aspects. The message I got growing up was that you should wait until you 'feel ready' to have sex. Unfortunately the implication was 'emotionally ready' with no regard to actually thinking about sexual desire. I thought I should have sex because I loved my partner and I felt mature enough, but whether I physically desired it in the moment or not never carried any weight in my mind! Quite shocking if you think about it... I think even sexuals fall into this trap because of the pressure to fit in - losing their viginity either at a time when they aren't in the mood or with a person they are aren't attracted to, just for the sake of ticking that particular box.

Education on consent / 'enthusiastic' consent is the other thing that needs to be improved, and I think it is connected. If someone doesn't stop to ask themselves if they really desire an activity, their partner should at least be engaged in checking this through good communication (verbal or non).

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23 hours ago, Aice said:

In terms of the idea of noticing/not noticing that the person you are having sex with is uninterested, the very depressing thing is that there are some people who simply don't care - there are plenty out there who are very aware of another person's lack of interest but will happily ignore this for their own ends.

I think sex education needs to improve on a number of aspects. The message I got growing up was that you should wait until you 'feel ready' to have sex. Unfortunately the implication was 'emotionally ready' with no regard to actually thinking about sexual desire. I thought I should have sex because I loved my partner and I felt mature enough, but whether I physically desired it in the moment or not never carried any weight in my mind! Quite shocking if you think about it... I think even sexuals fall into this trap because of the pressure to fit in - losing their viginity either at a time when they aren't in the mood or with a person they are aren't attracted to, just for the sake of ticking that particular box.

Education on consent / 'enthusiastic' consent is the other thing that needs to be improved, and I think it is connected. If someone doesn't stop to ask themselves if they really desire an activity, their partner should at least be engaged in checking this through good communication (verbal or non).

Unfortunately sex is complicated for many people, and sometimes language doesn't seem to be very good at describing people's feelings.   There are some people who in general have no interest in sex, but if they do have sex they physically enjoy it while it happens,  but then afterwards don't enjoy the experience in retrospect. 

 

Others think that they want sex "in the future" but never "now".  Some see sex as a way to scratch an itch - something to get over with as quickly as possible. 

 

All sorts of variation.   That can make the question of whether ones partner "enjoys'" sex very confusing in some situations. 

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I understand that coming into my sexuality at 28 has a lot of weight. I've been lingering on the idea of being ace for my entire life (post puberty, but pre-puberty thoughts had confirmed my status). I have been with my cis-male boyfriend for 4.5 years by now. As I reduced my alcohol use, I've realized I had previously abused alcohol to "make up" for my lack of a sexual desire/attraction/libido. I was becoming an addict to cope with the standards of society. I realized, it's not fair to abuse and hurt myself in order to fit into a sexually obsessed society. I have a hard time because I have enjoyed sex in the past, but I cannot remember a time when I was the sexual pursuer. I understand that sex is powerful and can be used as leverage in a human relationship, and I have learned how to wield my sexuality. To profit off of my sexuality. My fake sexuality. I learned that modern men don't care if I reciprocate the feelings truly, and I learned how to fake the feelings. I am annoyed by friends that talk about or think about sex all the time. Why are they obsessed with something that isn't necessary? This lead me here and I finally feel understood, sort of. 

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Welcome @tkelizabeth! Have some cake: :cake:

My partner never pursues sex either. Sex can be a loving thing – my partner provides it as an act of love, even if he has no intrinsic desire for it. But sometimes people don't realize that others aren't having a positive experience, and I understand how that can make it all feel oppressive and fake. Communication and openness is a good thing. ❤️ 

 

@Aice as someone with an asexual partner, the phrase "enthusiastic consent" really sets me on edge. I can never have his enthusiasm, and that sensibility would make me out to be a monster (maybe I should enjoy in that monstrosity). To want my partner to desire sex with me is to want him to change his orientation – I won't do that to him. Instead I'll accept that he's willing, it's not a huge chore, and he wants me to be happy. I won't look for "enthusiasm", I aim for clear and continuous.

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@anisotropic

I know what you mean! That's why I used a slash (/) to mean 'or' . I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable about using the word 'enthusiastic' about my consent either!

The point I was making is that I think there needs to be either non-verbal 'enthusiasm', or a conversation had at some point, whether it be at the time or previously.

I can think of a few examples in which the consent wouldn't necessarily be 'enthusiastic':

1) Consent as part of a compromise in a relationship between a sexual and an ace.
2) Consent between a prostitute and their client.
3) Consent in a relationship between two sexuals, in which there is a general culture of give and take and both partners communicate with and respect the other.

I certainly can't imagine a situation in which someone has just met someone else and are engaging in sexual activity in which that person looks disinterested or unhappy, and they wouldn't feel it necessary to check they are OK verbally.

The amazing thing is that the only place I see these subtleties being discussed is on a forum about asexuality! It's amazing how exploring a lack of interest in sex can lead to so much interesting thought on sex itself and the different ways in which a person can want to engage in it.

I really think this stuff should definitely be discussed through the education system.




 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I am a little scared thinking of how my future relationship will be like. I would have sex (for him), but it is a little overwhelming thinking of having it all the time. It seems to me that I I would need to have sex to keep him from leaving. An open relationship is also a little scary because of trust issues I may develop. It is kind of tough thinking of why a guy would choose me over a girl who has a sex drive. I still really want a relationship as I get older, and these are just thoughts that I have. 

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On 12/23/2018 at 3:41 PM, A Lover said:

I am a little scared thinking of how my future relationship will be like. I would have sex (for him), but it is a little overwhelming thinking of having it all the time. It seems to me that I I would need to have sex to keep him from leaving. An open relationship is also a little scary because of trust issues I may develop. It is kind of tough thinking of why a guy would choose me over a girl who has a sex drive. I still really want a relationship as I get older, and these are just thoughts that I have. 

Best if you find someone who's level of sexual interest is similar to yours - because I think what you list are real problems. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Phew it's been a while since I came on here. I'm grateful to have gotten a few replies to my topic. @anamikanon Just so you know, your careful responses mean the world to me. If there's one thing I can never appreciate it's circumventing hard truths. I thrive on honesty, and sometimes it can seem harsh, as you've said, but at the end of the day, it's with the best intentions. That said, somehow we're still together. Although we did have a long talk about what our relationship was and whether there was any hope in its survival. Apart from my own beliefs/desires/behaviours, we're both struggling with a major financial stressor. I like to think that's part of what put me in such a questioning position. But if so, that just makes me question even more whether or not I have "feelings". I spend too much time trying to define what "feelings" even are, and if I can bring them to life. Did I ever even have them? Is what I want just friendship? What does it mean to love a friend? It's hard trying to separate the sexual from the not having seen it and learned it for so long. That's probably the hardest part - not knowing any other way, but having to deal with these thoughts, "feelings", and expectations. Some months ago my sister asked me if I wanted to get married. I told her I just want to be able to pay my bills. Companionship is nice, but it's never been important to me, even from a young age. But nevertheless, I yearn to yearn. I just want to be more like the majority, I guess. I don't know anymore. 

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On 12/23/2018 at 3:41 PM, A Lover said:

I am a little scared thinking of how my future relationship will be like. I would have sex (for him), but it is a little overwhelming thinking of having it all the time. 

And it would not just be a one-time thing, but part of the ongoing relationship.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

Being a sexual with an asexual partner in a relationship for the past 24 years, it's not the fact that my asexual partner doesn't want to talk about it or even the fact that I have made the compromise in not pestering her for sex.........................it's the fact that my children, now in their twenties may never know the truth.

I hope one day they will, just so they don't make the same mistake as I did. Best for them not to have a relationship and not suffer the consequences of mental anguish for the rest of their lives.

I'm speaking from personal experience as a sexual. The same may apply for an asexual but in a different way.

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36 minutes ago, Apostle said:

I hope one day they will, just so they don't make the same mistake as I did.

If you aren’t comfortable disclosing the truth about their parents’ relationship to them, but are worried they could repeat the same mistake, can you talk to them about it more generally (something a friend went through, e.g.)?

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