Sexual wife can't live like this anymore (TMI)

[sexualwife]

Yes, I think about it often...I even told him to leave a couple of weeks ago after a counseling session, where he and the counselor decided this "situation" could be "fixed" if we can get his testosterone level up high enough and the counselor can help him get over his fear about intercourse. The counselor doesn't believe my husband could be asexual. It sent me over the edge. I told him to leave, that I just needed some time away from him to think about everything, but of course he refused to leave and I'm not able to just leave since I still have kids at home. If I didn't still have kids at home, I would already be gone. I think he knows that if he would ever leave, he will most likely never return because I wouldn't want him to. After 10 years of all this, I'm almost at the end of my rope....

-Sexualwife

[Ritchie333]

Sorry to hear about your situation. Particularly since you've got kids present - keeping a happy family environment is so important for them. That said, if staying together is causing this much animosity, it's not necessarily beneficial to them.

Obviously you know your husband better than I ever possibly will, but if you're at the end of your tether, why not simply show him this thread? Everyone who's replied so far can easily see what your opinons and feelings are on the matter. Sometimes you just have to come out and call a spade a spade if nothing else works, and it can be easier to do that by writing things down (as you've done) than face to face.

[UF6]

Quick question. Does he have autism or anything with the autism spectrum? Or has he ever been tested for it?

[mrbeanatural]

I have little to add to this discussion, only that I probably could have written it myself, even down to no longer desiring the wife I desired for so long becuase I'm so accustomed to rejection. The frustration and resentment has reached a tipping point, and I'm just as clueless on what to do as sexualwife. It all comes down to whether you think the relationship is worth saving and I don't have an answer for either her or myself.

I posted this earlier today. Probably should have posted it to this forum instead.

http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?/topic/81191-sexual-needs-some-advice-in-relationship/

[sexualwife]

Hi Ritchie...I think between the counseling sessions and our discussions at home, I've expressed basically everything I've written on this forum. I think he chooses to believe that I will give up and quiet down like I have in the past many times and try to be happy, but I just can't do it anymore. I think he thinks if he ignores the situation and my unhappiness that it will just magically go away. He has his head in the sand and happily so.

UF6...My husband's not autistic or Asperger's...I'm 100% positive of that.

mrbeanatural...I read your post on the other thread...I feel your pain...My spouse is affectionate at least, but that almost makes it worse. I keep withdrawing myself now because any touch or peck kiss is just salt in the wound for me. It really hurts that he can be affectionate in the living room and kitchen, but nothing in the bedroom, and can't go anything further than foreplay when we try to be intimate. I think another thing that really hurts is that he doesn't seem to be hurting at all. He seems perfectly happy, and doesn't seem to care how miserable I am. I could write a ton more, but I have to go. If I were you though, I wouldn't seek out the escort option. I would wait until you decide it's over and then find a nice woman who you are more compatible with sexually, and hopefully compatible in every other way you find important. They are out there. Seeing an escort would probably just complicate things even more so than they already are. That's just my opinion though. You have to do what you think is right for you. I'll keep everyone posted on my situation as much as I can. Take care...

-Sexualwife

[Lucinda]

SW, did your husband live with his parents before he moved into your home? The reason I ask is because of his refusal to help pay down the mortgage. If there was no mortgage, then there would be rent ... unless one is living on inherited property. It's pretty much a given just as monthly utility bills, etc.

I noticed in the lettuce salad analogy that pulling down the pots and pans and preparing a meal himself for the family wasn't an option.

I understand now that you weren't looking for a father figure, but more someone who was family oriented. Love me, love my kids understandably. And while your husband is not a substitute for their dad, to what extent is he like the outstanding male role models in your family that you mentioned?

We took a trip to the Carolinas to visit a friend and his fiance. During that time, I attended a large heritage festival. I made a point of introducing myself to the fiance's ex-husband mainly to meet their 12 year old daughter. It didn't take long until the guy started talking about his ex and "that" man in front of his own daughter. When it became obvious that I wasn't interested in talking smack about my friend, he turned to his daughter to continue the conversation ... in a gossipy sort of way. It was like a brother and sister talking about the school bully. I changed the topic and started asking him about his family and ancestry since we were at a heritage festival, after all. What I remembered about this was the dynamic between the father and daughter ... and thus the dynamic between the father and the daughter's mother. Later she mentioned that when they split, she had to show him how to make a grilled cheese sandwich because he had no clue how to cook for himself.

Take or leave whatever I have to say as you find it applicable, but if it seems that you are a mother substitute, then perhaps you are. And who wants to have sex with their mother? And even if a man had a burning desire for sex, but a desire for a mother substitute more ... then what would the sex be like? Would he spend a great deal fantasizing to envision that he was having sex with someone else? Would it be apparent or not? Would sex camouflage an otherwise parent-child dynamic?

Is the real reason you are sad is because he hasn't volunteered to file the divorce papers himself?

Lucinda

[JSP]

I have been reading the whole thread and I have to say that sexualwife is tearing my heart into pieces. :(

I'm far from that situation but it shows me the future that can be waiting for me if I go on with my relationship.

I just wanted to say, the worst part about it is when you start feeling that you are weird, freak, deviated, non-normal. Even if you are the one that is like more than 99% of the population, you feel like you are a dirty-minded person that only can think with the genitalia and that should be ashamed of that.

I hate that feeling.

[mrbeanatural]

Exactly! Part of losing attraction for my wife is that I feel like a total deviant/pervert because I want to have sex with her. Here I thought that was a GOOD thing.

I don't know where you are in your relationship JSP but take what you're reading to heart. Although it is not hopeless, and there is help on these pages, if I were to meet my past self, I would definitely tell him to find a different path.

[Einy]

I don't know where you are in your relationship JSP but take what you're reading to heart. Although it is not hopeless, and there is help on these pages, if I were to meet my past self, I would definitely tell him to find a different path.

Me too :-(

[sexualwife]

I really don't have much to update...He has not tried to initiate anything in the last week since we tried and failed. Lucinda, I'm just really sad because of this situation. He will never file papers because he has been getting everything he needs and wants from this relationship, whereas I haven't. So that isn't an expectation of mine because I know he'll never do it. It's all up to me, and I guess rightfully so, since I'm the unhappy one in the relationship. He is a good step-dad, and always has their best interests at heart, as far as I can tell and he loves them like they are his own. He's fairly responsible, so those are all reasons why he is like the other men in my kids' lives.

One thing that happened over the weekend, was that we ran into his parents in a fast food place, and they were talking about how one of their pets loves affection, and my mother-in-law looked at me and said "husbands need affection too". I just looked at her and didn't know what to say. Did my husband lie to them and tell them I was the one who has never wanted sex? It wouldn't be the first time he's twisted the truth to protect himself, so that wouldn't surprise me. Did he tell them that he'd want to if I was more affectionate to him? Possibly, because this came up in the counseling session. I used to be warm and affectionate, but I've pulled away and shut down to protect myself. Is that my fault? His hollow peck kisses, "I love you's" and hugs are just salt in the wound. So I'm supposed to show her son affection even though he will never want to make love to me as his wife. Lovely. If I wasn't so caught off guard by her statement, and we hadn't been in a public place, I would've come back with something like, "Yeah, and wives need their husband's to make love to them more than 0 times in their marriage." Whatever lady...Sorry, I'm feeling a little snarky today...I'd have to agree with all the others that knowing what I know now about asexuality, if I could go back and warn myself to run the other direction, I would do so in a heartbeat. So for those of you in the beginnings of something similar, get out now and cut your losses. The situation will never improve or go away. It's forever something you'll struggle with. And in this world where life is difficult enough when things are close to perfect, why knowingly sign up for a lifetime of pain and anguish when you know it will never get better?

-sexualwife

[Lucinda]

The thing is, if he is lying and slanting things, he is inadvertently saying that he is unhappy because of X, Y, and Z. While it is understandable that his mother wants him to be happy, I think it is rather creepy that she is speaking for him. The same goes for the sister-in-law who told you you were selfish for not giving him bio children. If they are really that concerned, then why didn't they ask you questions to get your side and your thoughts? You did; however, think it best that he speak with his family about your problems so they wouldn't be blindsided if/when you two separate. So, regardless of not having full knowledge, they won't be blindsided.

So, when are you going to speak with an attorney?

Lucinda

[RaisingCain]

Oh you poor dear! I wish I could just give you the biggest hug!

The unfortunate thing about those on the asexual spectrum is that many of us don't even know what we are! Many of us ( myself included) just adopt a sexuality to please others, or because we don't know any better. I, myself have been other other side of your problem, and I came out of it felling very confused.

I agree with everyone here. You NEED to talk to him about this. Tell him how you're feeling, ask him how he's feeling. Chances are he'll dodge the question, though. If you feel that sex is something you require in a relationship, then yeah, it's probably time you start thinking about what you need to do for yourself. Maybe look for a doctor or a psychologist who has been trained to work with asexual people. But you also need to remember, you can only work through this, if he wants to.

I wish you the best of luck, dear. Listen to your heart, and not your lady-parts, on this one, OK?

Hope I helped!

- Raising Cain.

[jojo2003]

Dear Sexualwife,

Reading through all the posts againg I am very sorry to hear that things have not worked out one way or another for you.

I wish there was more advice to give, but it seems so many issues (not only the sexual one) seem to get into play. And still you are going through with the counseling. There must be a reason other than him being a wonderful stepdad, because he can be from a distance if you would want him to. Otherwise, why are you going through with all this trouble. Is there any way to look at the positive aspects or are you way beyond that point?

My situation is less complicated, but I have been going through rough spells every once in a while. I am not comparing my situation with yours, since mine seems to be working out most other aspects except for the sexual part, so it might be easier. But when I get depressed after a while I am able to look at the aspects why I am still in this relationship, the positive ones I mean, and try to work my way out of the depressed feelings. Up to now this worked for me.

Otherwise, I do not advocate this option very much, but there is no other way than to (temporarely) leave the situation and get focussed on what you want. Your advice to other, although a bit harsh (but forgiven due to your situation) does apply to you as well. There are always a lot of reasons to stay in a relationship, but even more ways to get out in a good way.

The best of luck to you.

[mrbeanatural]

I can't get over the MIL's comment. Creepy, inappropriate, and just plain wrong. Even if you WERE the problem, what business is it of hers? And on top of all of the other pain and suffering you're going through. You certainly handled it better than I would have. I still have to bite my tounge when my MIL askes about grandchildren, or else I might say something like, ' That would require us to actually HAVE sex.'

But truthfully, I would never say something so mean spirited and hurtful, as that. Just feeling snarky too I guess. Good Luck SW. Thinking of you during a really bad time.

[sexualwife]

Hi Lucinda...I have spoken to my lawyer already...

Mrbeanatural...Believe me, your exact statement has gone through my mind several times as well. Several years ago, my MIL and I had a really strange conversation that really didn't make sense to me at the time. We had them over for dinner, and while I was cleaning up the dishes and loading the dishwasher, she starts talking about if you are too tired to be intimate, you need to tell you spouse that you need help with the household chores so you're not so tired when it's time for bed. She went on to say that men are willing to help with women's work then. All I could think of to say was that "I'm not the one who is always too tired for that kind of activity", and with that she gave me this weird look and the conversation was over. It was possibly around that time when my SIL made the comment about me being selfish for not wanting to have a baby with her brother...So I'm wondering if they mentioned something to my husband, and he told them it was me not ever wanting to...He does like to twist the truth around, so it wouldn't surprise me. It was just one of those conversations that really didn't make sense at the time, but as time goes on, it starts to be clear why they said the things they did. I still don't know if he's told any of them the truth. And I guess it really doesn't matter, but it would be nice for them to know the truth so they understand my side of things..

I had my annual check-up with my doctor, and he knows not to ask the question "do you have pain during intercourse?", or I will burst into tears. I swore I wasn't going to cry on this visit, as I've done every year, but I wasn't successful. In fact, I almost couldn't stop sobbing. He asked me how I was doing, as he knows what has been going on for many years. I told him I was doing okay, and he looked at me and said, "really?" I just shook my head and my eyes welled up. I keep my pain bottled up pretty well, but once there is a crack in the wall, the sobbing begins and it's difficult to stop. He asked if I sleep well, and I said no. It's tough to sleep when you have a sex drive and are aroused but your spouse isn't interested. It's like going to bed hungry for food and trying to go to sleep. It's not easy. Years ago, I laid in bed many nights with tears streaming down my face in silence in the dark until I finally just gave up and shut down, trying to repress my sexual feelings. If it wasn't for masturbation, I think I would have gone stark raving mad by now. Here's a comical tidbit...Until a few weeks ago during our first counseling session, my husband didn't know I, or anyone else for that matter, masturbated on a regular basis. He's in his 40's and has told me he hasn't masturbated since he was a teenager, so I guess he really doens't understand why anyone would do that. He doesn't have a need for it obviously. We are seeing the counselor again soon. It will be interesting to see what he has to say about our 1 failed attempt at intercourse from my husband's 1 initiation. It will also be interesting to hear my husband's point of view to the counselor on everything as well. He talks a good talk. The reason I'm continuing with the counseling is that I hope my husband gets to the point where he understands my point of view, to where he understands why I can't do this anymore. Right now, he thinks I should love him enough that I should be okay living without intercourse the rest of my life and just be satisfied that he tried. He's clinging to the phrase "we're working on it" right now so that makes it sound like he's trying and thing may improve. I will update you all on how that goes.

Some posters say my words are harsh. Well, let me tell you something. It's harsh living without intercourse for 10 years when you're in a committed, legally bound relationship. Try going without something your body and spirit truly desires and wants from your partner and tell me how bitter, resentful, angry and sad you get after 10 years. Asexuality is an orientation. I get it. Truly I do. Us sexuals are supposed to be understanding, loving, willing to compromise, etc., etc., etc. But I'm a sexual person. I am who I am as well, and that isn't going to change, just like asexuality isn't a choice either. I've tried to suppress my sexuality, and it just doesn't work. If you can't understand what I've gone through for 10 long years, and what that does to a sexual person, well, I'm sorry. Then you really don't know what you're missing. Having intercourse with the person you're in love with when you both want to be with one another that way is something I can't describe. It's like trying to describe colors to a blind person who has always been blind. If I would've read posts on this site in the beginnings of this relationship, I would've ended it, and that's the message I want to send to anyone in the early stages and are already miserable. It will be a struggle forever. I've read other posts from sexuals that are similar, so my advice is nothing new here. At least they can make an informed decision about their relationship and their future whereas the rest of us didn't really know that it would never get better. If I offend you, then maybe you shouldn't read my posts. I tend to be honest and painfully direct at times. I do apologize. I thought since this forum was for Sexual Partners, Friends and Allies, that I could share what I've gone through and vent my frustrations as a sexual partner of (what I believe to be) an asexual.

-sexualwife

[AshenPhoenix]

Dear Sexualwife-

I have followed your story intently since the first day it went up on this forum I have not said anything thus far because I'm afraid I am in no postion to give any kind of advice on the subject. However seeing the amount of posts you've made and how your story has progressed so far, I just want to post and say that I wish you the best of luck in all your endeavors. I honestly wish I had some kind of insight, any at all, that I had to offer you. But I don't, so I will instead offer my best wishes and all the luck I can.

-Phoenix535

[jojo2003]

Dear SexualWife,

It is hard to read that things are not progressing in the right direction for you. I wish I could give you more advice, but you are right in stating it is a struggle being in a relationship with an asexual every now and then.

I have said your remarks are a bit hars, but also mentioned you are forgiven due to the situation you are in. Of course you can vent any opinion on this forum you want and express any feeling you wish to express.

As far as you have read the posts of relationships that do not work out, there are amongst us who do have a mixed relationship working on some level. But you are right that it can be a struggle sometimes. That was the nuance I wished to provide, without preventing you from expressing your opinion.

It is frustrating to not be able to give you more advice, but support. I am reading your posts and admiring all the work you do in trying to make things work for you guys!

Best of luck to you!

[Lady Girl]

Hi Lucinda...I have spoken to my lawyer already...

He talks a good talk. The reason I'm continuing with the counseling is that I hope my husband gets to the point where he understands my point of view, to where he understands why I can't do this anymore. Right now, he thinks I should love him enough that I should be okay living without intercourse the rest of my life and just be satisfied that he tried.

Us sexuals are supposed to be understanding, loving, willing to compromise, etc., etc., etc.

I thought since this forum was for Sexual Partners, Friends and Allies, that I could share what I've gone through and vent my frustrations as a sexual partner of (what I believe to be) an asexual.

-sexualwife

I think this is just a little unfair. I know you feel all kinds of horrible about this (believe me when I say I know...my husband and I went 25 years before we got a computer and a month later here I was). I'm not sure I understand why you continue to make him try if you are no longer attracted to him and if you have the lawyer for a divorce. I would guess that if you told him you're getting a divorce because you two have never consummated your marriage he would understand. Don't you think?

I don't think anyone said you should be the only person in the relationship being loving, understanding, and willing to compromise. A realistic compromise is meeting somewhere in the middle...neither partner gets what they ideally would like. As you have expressed that he is the only one happy with the current arrangement, most of the posts have been sympathetic and lean towards encouraging you to move on. Many of us here (in the Sexuals section) do know what it is we are all missing, and we do understand that both sexual and asexual are legitimate orientations. No one has asked you to change for him. Your honesty and directness are indeed welcome here, and you can definitely voice your frustrations. But as was mentioned elsewhere, not all asexuals are alike and not all relationships are alike either.

We are all sorry for your unhappiness. It's just not fair to imply we don't understand...

[Sally]

I agree with Lady Girl. As I said on another thread where you commented, SexualWife, it is up to you what you do now. But your anger with your husband should not extend to all asexuals. We are all individuals. Continuning to restate why you are angry with your husband will only increase it -- anger feeds on itself. That won't be healthy for either you or him.

[Guest]

I'm sorry your relationship is not progressing the way you would like. Many people here have successfully worked out, or are working out, some thing to please both parties in mixed relationships though. So, I wouldn't say the advice of get out is a useful blanket statement. People like Lady Girl know very well the hurt and resentment sexuals go through.

The lies, turning stories around etc are all very serious issues and have nothing to do with being ace if he is. It prevents communication and trust. And without that, there isn't much of a foundation. If you are talking to your lawyers and really want to end it, I would say he needs to know it is over and all that is left is arrangements. He should understand the why. He has to know you are unhappy.

[sexualwithquestions]

Thank you all so much for responding....Years ago before I found AVEN or researched asexuality, I was getting really frustrated when he would tell me how much he loved me. I would say things like "if you love me like you say you do, then why don't you want to have sex with me? It's the most intimate thing we can do to show our love and share our love for one another". Or "I've been in other relationships, and this just isn't normal to not ever have sex." I know now that was very hurtful for me to say. I didn't understand that it's not his choice and since I've never been in this situation, I really didn't know what was going on. He really doesn't understand how I feel, because I truly think he's never been any other way. I always took my other relationships for granted, regarding the sexual part anyways. I didn't know about the whole spectrum of sexuality until recently. He is who he is. I've told him that I understand now. It's no one's fault. We are who we are. We are not compatible that way. We are compatible in alot of other ways. We enjoy each other's company, we are very family oriented, etc. He's pretty easy to get along with on a daily basis. I guess that's why I've stayed so long and tried to repress my feelings and needs and tried to be happy for me and everyone's sake. No relationship is perfect. But this just keeps resurfacing for me. It's just really hard for me to think I may never have sex again as long as we're together. We've never talked about me going outside the marriage for sex, but I know what that answer will be. It's not an option. It's tough for me to understand that he doesn't want me that way, but doesn't want anyone else to be with be that way either. I don't think I'd want to do that anyways. I'd have to be separated or divorced from him. Sex is not just a physical act for me. I think in the end, it would just get too painful for everyone involved.

I think the reason he doesn't want to admit that he's asexual is not because of the label, but because he knows what that would mean to the relationship. He knows how deeply I feel about this and that it could mean that I will leave. I feel like he's in denial about it. Like others that have said similar things on here, I know that if our relationship ended, I would have the opportunity to find someone to have a relationship with plus be sexual with as well. It would be a complete relationship to me and not just a roommate situation. I wish that everything else he is and everything else he does would be enough. Why can't it be enough for me? He's a really great guy, a great step-dad to my kids (except for being manipulative and stretching the truth on occasion). Nobody's perfect. I know I'm sure not perfect. No relationship is ever perfect either. So why can't I get over this and just accept that this is the way it's going to be? I want to, but I just don't think I can. I really want that connection with someone. I don't want to hurt him. I don't want to hurt my family or my kids. But do I live for everyone else? What happens later when my kids are both grown and living elsewhere and my wonderful parents are gone? I will still be in this situation. I don't want to become a bitter old resentful hateful woman that's mad at the world. Somedays I feel that is who I'm becoming. I have a hard time not feeling used by him. He's gotten a roommate that helps pay the bills, cooks the meals, cleans the house, washes the laundry, etc. and I've gotten a roommate that's a good step-dad to my kids. I think I'd rather be alone with the hope of someday finding someone to have a relationship with and who I'm compatible with sexually, than to settle and never have sex again. It's really sad for me to read so many posts from so many people that choose to live that way forever, where it is a constant struggle, where it's always that white elephant in the room. I know I can't live this way much longer and feel like I am hanging on by my fingertips.

The counselor we saw the other night told me I should see someone else first to work through my anger and resentment. He could tell that it's really been building for 10 years, probably because I was fighting back tears the entire time. I'm usually a very strong person, but I'm getting close to my breaking point. I've scheduled an appointment for today, however when I mentioned "asexuality" on the phone to her, the phone went silent, and I could tell she really didn't know what I was talking about. These people have Masters degrees and PhD's for crying out loud. Why aren't these professionals trained in the spectrum of sexuality and all the different variances that can happen when a human is developed and formed? It's very frustrating when you know you should talk to a professional, or are told you should, and there is no one out there that has enough training or knowledge to help you or even understand what you are going through? These forums go back to 2005. Why aren't they teaching this in the colleges and universities so that professionals can be knowledgable or even specialists in this?

My husband is convinced now that it's his testosterone level that's causing him to not want to have sex with me. What's strange is that he has enough T to have erections and get aroused, but then doesn't want to do anything with it. I guess that's why I doubt that it's the T level. If he couldn't get erections or have trouble keeping one, then I would really think we were getting close to figuring out that what could be going on is medical. He says it will take time to get his level up to 600. He's been at 180 for a year while taking shots and in the past three months where they doubled the dose, so I'm having my doubts as to how long that could take or even if it's possible at this point. As far as compromising goes, I feel we've been doing that for the entire 10 years we've been together. We've only done what he's been comfortable with and I've never pushed the issue. I feel if and when he tries to do more than that, he will be doing something he really doesn't want to do, has never really had the desire to do, but knows he needs to, to keep me from wanting a divorce. I'm just not real comfortable with that idea because I know that it will be an awkward situation. It just doesn't come natural to him and I truly think he doesn't feel any passion, desire or arousal for what he's doing. There's no feeling in it. I don't know how else to explain it. I know over time that will fade too, and we'll be right back where we have been, and I'll just be that much older.

I'm in the same situation as many others on here. Life tends to get complicated when you share a house and a life with someone for many years and there are still children living at home. People say to just leave, it's that easy. No, it really isn't, without leaving a path of destruction and financial consequences that may be difficult to deal with or recover from at the stage in life you are in. I'm not going to walk away from a house that I've made 90% of the payments on. I have a kid in college and a kid that has a couple years left in high school. I have a credit card balance I'm trying to pay off. I can support myself and my kids, but it would be very, very tight. My husband has given them alot of things they wouldn't have had before and they would have to learn it's okay to live without them, which I'm sure they'd be angry at me for. My older child has also been going through some things that have been really hard on her. I really don't want to add to her list of things to deal with. She is too young to be so burdened and is already on anti-depressants. If I only had to consider myself in all this, I would already be gone, which is really sad to say. I'm very independent and am self-sufficient. But when you have other people depending on you, and their lives will be affected, I think of them first and just try to be happy with the way things are. You just deal with it the best way you know how at the time. That's just how I've felt since becoming a parent. And maybe now that I'm older, I'm alot more careful about making rash decisions too. When you're older, you tend to think about consequences alot more than younger people. You find out you aren't invincible and bad things can and do happen.

Luckily we never tried to have kids together and my kids are almost grown, so I feel like I will be able to make changes and live life for me in a few years finally. Oh, one interesting comment regarding us having kids together. My sister-in-law once told me at a holiday gathering that I was selfish for not wanting to have kids with her brother so he could have his own biological kids. I just looked at her and didn't really know what to say. I was so caught off guard. I didn't say anything, but all I could think of is that it's kind of difficult to have kids with someone when they have never wanted to have sex with you and have never had sex with you. I don't know if he told her I didn't want to have kids with him or what. He tends to put the responsibility on others when he feels cornered, so that wouldn't surprise me. I always told him if he wanted to have kids, I was willing to, but he never wanted to, and maybe it's because we would've had to have sex to accomplish that. I don't know. But thank goodness some prayers aren't answered. Hindsight is truly 20/20.

-sexualwife

2 months ago I ended a 9 year relationship with a 3 year engagement. I honestly just discovered AVEN tonight. It is late but after reading your post I immediately wanted to post a reply.

My fiance, and I still call her that because I really do love her still with everything I have, and I are great together. We have been dating since we were teenagers. She has never been interested in sex on my level. she was able to be aroused and was able to orgasm, but she just sincerely has never really had a desire to have sex. It put a strain on our relationship from the beginning. I like to think of my self as a tough guy so admitting this is kinda hard but you literally brought a tears to my eyes when i was reading your posts in the beginning. It was like I found someone that was going through the EXACT same situation as me. So just CC that to my post with out the kids ;) .

After reading a bunch of posts and watching the documentary that led me here, I truly do believe that my fiance loves me with all she has and your husband loves you as well. I wanted to post for this reason, potentially there maybe hope at the end of the tunnel. Although we have been broken up for 2 months now I still see and talk to her often. to be honest I really don't want to be with anyone else. I ended the relationship for the same reasons with the additional reason that I am afraid eventually my urges would lead to adultery in marriage and I just didnt want to live that way.

since our breakup, she has done a 180, she insisted she could change, and wants a second chance immensely My emotions wanted to give her that second chance, but my brain was warning me away. She did a 180 sexually and I have gotten it every single time I have initiated it since we broke up. I say this not as a solution but to extend further, although I have gotten what I want over the past two months I still feel as if the desire is fake. After watching and reading tonight I am 100% positive this is the issue. I plan on discussing this with her first thing in the morning.

My point is if you really love someone what is there that you will not do for them? I would not think twice about jumping in front of a bullet for her. She has said since our breakup that she never understood that sex was so important that it was something that would cause a breakup after 9 years in a relationship. I have honestly thought it has been an act for the past 2 months, but again after learning tonight, I believe that her attempts (sexually) are the most loving thing she has done for me in our entire relationship. I guess I see it (without seeing it from her perspective) as doing something for your partner that you obviously have no desire to do because you love them. I see it as letting them choose where to eat, or letting them choose an activity of their choosing with disregard for your own personal preference.

If sex has no meaning for a romantic asexual (unless it causes bodily harm of coarse) then why not do it for your partner to bring them happiness since its something that they desire. When my fiance desired something I always tried to find a way to bring her that happiness. If this is her attempt to try to bring me happiness with complete disregard to her own personal preference, then I can honestly say my quandary is over. I think I could live a happily married man if those sacrifices were made, and god knows I have made my sacrifices. I love her to no end and I can honestly say now that if she is willing to make it work this way I don't care if it is an act anymore now that I know this is her sexual orientation.

My suggestion to you is talk with him on these lines. He obviously has no idea how important sex is to a sexual person. It is the epitome of intimacy for us. As long as he can get an erection then you can tell him what to do with it, and although it is of no interest to him and as long as bodily harm is not involved, I assume it would be more of a chore to him. I would do an extra chore for my fiance to make it work as I am sure you would for him, and again from my recent experience with my fiance, I am sure he would for you to solve all the problems. From what I read so far (did not read all the way down as I felt the need to reply after this post) it sounds as if he really loves you and just doesn't understand how important to you it really is.

to sum it up: : " I love you enough to run a mile a day if you want or an hour of jumping jacks a day if you want"

Hi Lucinda...I have spoken to my lawyer already...

Mrbeanatural...Believe me, your exact statement has gone through my mind several times as well. Several years ago, my MIL and I had a really strange conversation that really didn't make sense to me at the time. We had them over for dinner, and while I was cleaning up the dishes and loading the dishwasher, she starts talking about if you are too tired to be intimate, you need to tell you spouse that you need help with the household chores so you're not so tired when it's time for bed. She went on to say that men are willing to help with women's work then. All I could think of to say was that "I'm not the one who is always too tired for that kind of activity", and with that she gave me this weird look and the conversation was over. It was possibly around that time when my SIL made the comment about me being selfish for not wanting to have a baby with her brother...So I'm wondering if they mentioned something to my husband, and he told them it was me not ever wanting to...He does like to twist the truth around, so it wouldn't surprise me. It was just one of those conversations that really didn't make sense at the time, but as time goes on, it starts to be clear why they said the things they did. I still don't know if he's told any of them the truth. And I guess it really doesn't matter, but it would be nice for them to know the truth so they understand my side of things..

I had my annual check-up with my doctor, and he knows not to ask the question "do you have pain during intercourse?", or I will burst into tears. I swore I wasn't going to cry on this visit, as I've done every year, but I wasn't successful. In fact, I almost couldn't stop sobbing. He asked me how I was doing, as he knows what has been going on for many years. I told him I was doing okay, and he looked at me and said, "really?" I just shook my head and my eyes welled up. I keep my pain bottled up pretty well, but once there is a crack in the wall, the sobbing begins and it's difficult to stop. He asked if I sleep well, and I said no. It's tough to sleep when you have a sex drive and are aroused but your spouse isn't interested. It's like going to bed hungry for food and trying to go to sleep. It's not easy. Years ago, I laid in bed many nights with tears streaming down my face in silence in the dark until I finally just gave up and shut down, trying to repress my sexual feelings. If it wasn't for masturbation, I think I would have gone stark raving mad by now. Here's a comical tidbit...Until a few weeks ago during our first counseling session, my husband didn't know I, or anyone else for that matter, masturbated on a regular basis. He's in his 40's and has told me he hasn't masturbated since he was a teenager, so I guess he really doens't understand why anyone would do that. He doesn't have a need for it obviously. We are seeing the counselor again soon. It will be interesting to see what he has to say about our 1 failed attempt at intercourse from my husband's 1 initiation. It will also be interesting to hear my husband's point of view to the counselor on everything as well. He talks a good talk. The reason I'm continuing with the counseling is that I hope my husband gets to the point where he understands my point of view, to where he understands why I can't do this anymore. Right now, he thinks I should love him enough that I should be okay living without intercourse the rest of my life and just be satisfied that he tried. He's clinging to the phrase "we're working on it" right now so that makes it sound like he's trying and thing may improve. I will update you all on how that goes.

Some posters say my words are harsh. Well, let me tell you something. It's harsh living without intercourse for 10 years when you're in a committed, legally bound relationship. Try going without something your body and spirit truly desires and wants from your partner and tell me how bitter, resentful, angry and sad you get after 10 years. Asexuality is an orientation. I get it. Truly I do. Us sexuals are supposed to be understanding, loving, willing to compromise, etc., etc., etc. But I'm a sexual person. I am who I am as well, and that isn't going to change, just like asexuality isn't a choice either. I've tried to suppress my sexuality, and it just doesn't work. If you can't understand what I've gone through for 10 long years, and what that does to a sexual person, well, I'm sorry. Then you really don't know what you're missing. Having intercourse with the person you're in love with when you both want to be with one another that way is something I can't describe. It's like trying to describe colors to a blind person who has always been blind. If I would've read posts on this site in the beginnings of this relationship, I would've ended it, and that's the message I want to send to anyone in the early stages and are already miserable. It will be a struggle forever. I've read other posts from sexuals that are similar, so my advice is nothing new here. At least they can make an informed decision about their relationship and their future whereas the rest of us didn't really know that it would never get better. If I offend you, then maybe you shouldn't read my posts. I tend to be honest and painfully direct at times. I do apologize. I thought since this forum was for Sexual Partners, Friends and Allies, that I could share what I've gone through and vent my frustrations as a sexual partner of (what I believe to be) an asexual.

-sexualwife

I am sorry and I empathize with your anger. I too fell out of love with my fiance which took me to the point of finally ending the relationship which was the hardest thing I have ever done. I still loved her and still do love her. I have resented her easily for the past 2 years. It got to the point that we were arguing just to argue. She was becoming nasty because I was so short with her ( to asexuals: sexual tension is probably worse than what you hear about with guys who take steroids and their resulting aggressive tendencies ). Looking back now at her 180 degree turn, Maybe and I say this honestly, when two people love each they get complacent in that love and no longer realize what they have and things are taken for granted. It sounds like he loves his life to some degree, with you as his wife, your children as children of his own. Maybe he needs to be brought to a point where a choice has to be made. do an extra chore or this is the end. It may seem trivial to you but he may just not understand and may need to lose what he takes for granted for him to understand the implications.

I agree just to move on is very cold advise for such a long term relationship never mind the fact that marriage and kids are involved. For me that was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. I had knots in my stomach for the week leading up to telling her it was over and for a month afterwards.

Right now, he thinks I should love him enough that I should be okay living without intercourse the rest of my life and just be satisfied that he tried. He's clinging to the phrase "we're working on it" right now so that makes it sound like he's trying and thing may improve.

this struck me particularly. this was the most common phrase for my fiance in our 9 year relationship. I just kept letting it go trying to make it work....hoping things would change. It got to the point that she made me feel bad about wanting sex.

It's tough to sleep when you have a sex drive and are aroused but your spouse isn't interested.

this is probably the hardest and mentally devastating thing I went through during my relationship. This takes such a mental toll it is incredible. To want someone so bad sexually (loving someone makes you want them even more) and to never have that in return is at times insurmountable to the point you just want to crawl into a corner.

Here's a comical tidbit...Until a few weeks ago during our first counseling session, my husband didn't know I, or anyone else for that matter, masturbated on a regular basis.

My fiance has never masturbated in her life. I never believed her until right now lol.

So I'm wondering if they mentioned something to my husband, and he told them it was me not ever wanting to

I think he was embarrassed to say anything about himself in that manner. I had a situation where her father who is 60 was with his girlfriend of many years and she was complaining about not getting sex and he was saying how if you could he would lol...because of his age i guess. Well I made a joke about it and my fiance was so defensive about that it surprised me. In the documentary they said asexuals that don't know they are asexuals especially men have this overwhelming weight on their chest from society, that they are ashamed about, that they need to "PERFORM" .( or for the ladies to "PUT OUT")

Maybe he was just ashamed to even discuss this topic especially with9 his family and just blamed it on you as a quick way out.

If you can't understand what I've gone through for 10 long years, and what that does to a sexual person, well, I'm sorry. Then you really don't know what you're missing. Having intercourse with the person you're in love with when you both want to be with one another that way is something I can't describe.

From what I have read and learning from the documentary asexuals (edit) cannot understand, asexuals (edit) have never had "sexual" attraction. I guess its like TV. if you never had it, never seen it, how could you possibly miss it or yearn for it, or know what its like to be without it.

*EDIT*- sorry sally, did not mean to sum up asexuals with "they"

It's harsh living without intercourse for 10 years when you're in a committed....

I have had it a bit better than you. I guess its easier for a girl to "PUT OUT" then for a man to "PERFORM" sexually since an erection is required vs just lube. I have had 3 month dry spells like its no ones business but I would have lost my mind if it went over a year.

[Sally]

From what I have read and learning from the documentary they cannot understand, they have never had "sexual" attraction. I guess its like TV. if you never had it, never seen it, how could you possibly miss it or yearn for it, or know what its like to be without it.

I just want to put in a point here: Many of us asexuals do understand what it is like to not have something that you yearn for. Sex is not the only thing that people feel they need physically and emotionally, and many of us who have had sexual partners (as I have) can relate to how those partners feel when we can't reciprocate their need for mutually enjoyable sex.

This is a section of AVEN that is shared by sexuals and asexuals, and we asexuals often comment (as we have on this thread) -- and try our best to contribute to the understanding of sexuals who are in pain. As such, we're not "they" -- no one is "they". We're all talking together.

[Fricai]

... and your husband loves you as well.

Ten years of ignoring that your partner is miserable, not doing anything about it, manipulating and lying... I'm sorry but this does not sound like love to me. She should've dumped him a long time ago.

Sorry to be Mr. Negative.

[sexualwithquestions]

From what I have read and learning from the documentary they cannot understand, they have never had "sexual" attraction. I guess its like TV. if you never had it, never seen it, how could you possibly miss it or yearn for it, or know what its like to be without it.

I just want to put in a point here: Many of us asexuals do understand what it is like to not have something that you yearn for. Sex is not the only thing that people feel they need physically and emotionally, and many of us who have had sexual partners (as I have) can relate to how those partners feel when we can't reciprocate their need for mutually enjoyable sex.

This is a section of AVEN that is shared by sexuals and asexuals, and we asexuals often comment (as we have on this thread) -- and try our best to contribute to the understanding of sexuals who are in pain. As such, we're not "they" -- no one is "they". We're all talking together.

I am aware of the fact that there are many things that are yearned for, but there is not much to compare it to on the same level. TV was just an analogy not a direct representation.

if what you say is true...I would be curious as to what asexuals compare the desire for sex to for sexuals?

to Fricai,

I don't think we know the entire story. We are hearing a story from one side. what one person says is manipulating and lying another can describe as being defensive and protective of ones own ego. Again I don't assume to understand their relationship and I am only giving advise from my own perspective. Me and my fiance broke up over it, so yes it can get really bad.

also Fricai, I am just curious since you have a heroromantic orientation, and if I am asking details that are too personal just reply with that's too personal, have you ever had a relationship with a sexual woman and did you "PERFORM" for her?

[Lady Girl]

Personally, I don't care for the word perform to be put in all caps and in quotation marks. I'm well aware that someone used this expression in the film, but not all people think of the male role in sexual interactions as a performance. For some couples, it is not like that, and I think what the person in the film was trying to express is that society can sometimes imply that this is a requirement of men, and for him in his relationship with his asexual partner this feeling society tries to make him have doesn't exist.

Asexuals understand what sexuals go thru in that it is really easy to imagine wanting something and not being able to get it...kind of like really really wanting to scratch the itch that you can't reach. Most people constantly hear statements such as, "people need sex, it's the ultimate (or only) way to connect with your partner, it's the best, etc.". I'm pretty sure a lot of asexuals get it. Just like we can understand on a certain level that for many asexuals having sex is like a chore as opposed to a desired activity. Just because some don't tend to desire it, doesn't mean they are unaware of how the rest of the world feels about it...my husband is particularly aware, especially since I am sexual.

As for the advice to sexualwife to leave...many of us have finally acknowledged that based on her extreme unhappiness and repeated posts about her husbands failed attempts perhaps they would both be happier and healthier if they separated. She has intimated that she has retained a lawyer for this purpose and that she no longer desires him, so yes, some of us have said maybe that would be best at this point.

[Guest]

Sex is not the only thing one can desire. For me, the ultimate bonding and intimacy is cuddling and such, but due to my partner being sexual and being turned on by it, it is a need I rarely ever get. Perhaps once a month, if lucky, more like a couple times a year. He gets sex 3-4 times a week. So, yes we aces know what it feels like to have a major part of a relationship to us being gone due to sexual differences. I don't get to hug and kiss him when he comes home from work, I can't sit in his lap,, we can't cuddle, I can't sleep on his chest, so many things I find emotionally fulfilling are simply off the table 90% of the time, because for him to enjoy them they would have to end in sex or he will simply be frustrated. Which often leaves me frustrated.

And not all aces are able to do a 180 and start giving sex to their partner. Some have major emotional and mental damage from it. I hope you and your fiance work out a compromise that makes you both comfortable. Sometimes, the only option is to leave for good though if those differences can't be overcome.

[Sally]

I am aware of the fact that there are many things that are yearned for, but there is not much to compare it to on the same level. TV was just an analogy not a direct representation.

if what you say is true...I would be curious as to what asexuals compare the desire for sex to for sexuals?

None of us, as individuals, can reasonably say that what we experience is worse than what others experience. I wasn't referred to your mention of TV.

I don't think its appropriate to ask any one asexual to speak for all asexuals. What I have desired and not been able to have is personal to me. But the fact that I don't disclose that to you should not be taken as proof that asexsuals don't feel as deeply as sexuals. Again, I think you need to remember that this is a thread shared by sexuals and asexuals, and asexuals don't want to be either challenged or criticized for the shortcomings of one individual in your life.

[jojo2003]

Sex is not the only thing one can desire. For me, the ultimate bonding and intimacy is cuddling and such, but due to my partner being sexual and being turned on by it, it is a need I rarely ever get. Perhaps once a month, if lucky, more like a couple times a year. He gets sex 3-4 times a week. So, yes we aces know what it feels like to have a major part of a relationship to us being gone due to sexual differences. I don't get to hug and kiss him when he comes home from work, I can't sit in his lap,, we can't cuddle, I can't sleep on his chest, so many things I find emotionally fulfilling are simply off the table 90% of the time, because for him to enjoy them they would have to end in sex or he will simply be frustrated. Which often leaves me frustrated.

And not all aces are able to do a 180 and start giving sex to their partner. Some have major emotional and mental damage from it. I hope you and your fiance work out a compromise that makes you both comfortable. Sometimes, the only option is to leave for good though if those differences can't be overcome.

I am a bit shocked to read this post Liara. I think your partner should really start to consider your feelings more. It is a strange world if every cuddle or intimate moment should lead to sex. And I am not an asexual.

Of course there are moments when you get frustrated with intimacy, because it can arouse certain feelings. But in my opinion there are also a lot of moments where I do not get any arousal from intimate moments, but just get fulfillment from being close to my partner.

I am curious how about the view of other sexual partners on this.

[Roy M.]

SW, I might suggest that you try to have sex with someone else. I don't think anyone would really blame you, especially if your husband doesn't give a damn about sex.

[Guest]

Sex is not the only thing one can desire. For me, the ultimate bonding and intimacy is cuddling and such, but due to my partner being sexual and being turned on by it, it is a need I rarely ever get. Perhaps once a month, if lucky, more like a couple times a year. He gets sex 3-4 times a week. So, yes we aces know what it feels like to have a major part of a relationship to us being gone due to sexual differences. I don't get to hug and kiss him when he comes home from work, I can't sit in his lap,, we can't cuddle, I can't sleep on his chest, so many things I find emotionally fulfilling are simply off the table 90% of the time, because for him to enjoy them they would have to end in sex or he will simply be frustrated. Which often leaves me frustrated.

And not all aces are able to do a 180 and start giving sex to their partner. Some have major emotional and mental damage from it. I hope you and your fiance work out a compromise that makes you both comfortable. Sometimes, the only option is to leave for good though if those differences can't be overcome.

I am a bit shocked to read this post Liara. I think your partner should really start to consider your feelings more. It is a strange world if every cuddle or intimate moment should lead to sex. And I am not an asexual.

Of course there are moments when you get frustrated with intimacy, because it can arouse certain feelings. But in my opinion there are also a lot of moments where I do not get any arousal from intimate moments, but just get fulfillment from being close to my partner.

I am curious how about the view of other sexual partners on this.

He is close to hyper sexual, though he doesn't like me to use that term on him cause he considers that sex addiction, which he claims he doesn't have (even though if he doesn't get sex at least 3x a week he begins showing clinical withdrawal symptoms, gets VERY stressed, VERY angry at everything and generally is no fun at all to be around). For that reason, if I get within arms reach of him, it typically leads to his hands on my chest, between my legs, even just my chest touching him through our clothes when I hug him turns him on. I know not _all_ sexuals are like that, I have been with 3 others who weren't, but since he is... it's just easier to not do it. When I discussed it with him he said he could only enjoy cuddling right AFTER sex, which sex is so tedious to me I don't want to cuddle after. *shrug* I don't believe in making someone do something they dislike or that causes them discomfort for the sake of making myself feel better, so I just cuddle with my bird and my bunnies. Not quite the same, but neither is forcing someone to cuddle when it makes them angry/frustrated, there is no closeness then to me. I know what my relationship is and isn't and I have two options, accept it or leave. For now, I accept it, though if for whatever reason it made me unhappy enough to not be able to, I would leave.

I was just pointing out yes, aces can have things they desire in a relationship just as much as sexuals desire sex and not get it. We can understand longing for something that won't change in your partner. For me, I accept it and there is no point trying to change him. For others, it can be too much of a difference if you aren't getting what you want. For some others, compromise can work so everyone gets what they want (to some degree). This is the same for ALL differences in relationships that are considered deal breakers. There are many, many reasons couples break up - sex can be awesome in it but communication is bad, or works too much and has no time for other intimacy, etc. None are better or worse than any other. There is no shame in breaking up over any incompatibility.