Sexual wife can't live like this anymore (TMI)

[sexualwife]

Im new to Aven. Ive been reading on these forums for a month or so. Like so many others, I couldve written many of the posts. I am a sexual female, married to what I believe is an asexual male. Weve been together for 10 years, married for 5 years. I was married for 12 years to my first husband. My husband had a fiancé in his early 20s, some 20 years ago. When we first started dating, I could tell something was different. I would initiate, lay on top of him or with my leg across him and kiss him. He would be aroused and did and still does get erections, however he would start to laugh or talk to diffuse the situation until I finally gave up. The only thing hes ever been comfortable with is mutual masturbation, and me giving him oral sex. Hes told me he hasnt masterbated by himself since he was a kid. He has never given me oral sex. When I asked him recently why, are you repulsed? And he said yes, that he doesnt think its clean down there. I have very good hygiene, but I can understand how some people would feel this way. I noticed that on the rare occasion where he would initiate, it would be during my period, so of course he would get oral sex and I would get nothing. After this happened several times, I finally caught on, and just started telling him I had my period and I no longer offered to give him oral sex. He stopped initiating.
Like so many others, I never knew about asexuality. I loved him and always thought that eventually he would want to be with me. Hes made excuses such as that hes shy, inexperienced, just not confident. He had a couple of girlfriends in high school and a fiancé in his early 20s that cheated on him. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I thought eventually it would get better and that his desire and want for me would overpower his insecurities. Nothing has ever changed. I had to stop wanting him because it hurt so much. So many nights I would lay in bed and the tears would be streaming down my face. Hes always been perfectly happy with the way things are. He gets fed, gets a family (I have two kids from previous marriage), and he gets companionship. I feel like we are just roommates who are close friends. I never wanted to push him or make him uncomfortable, so I thought I would wait and let him initiate, thinking that might help. I waited and waited, and 4 months would go by and nothing, so then Id finally snap. I could get undressed in front of him, be naked right next to him, and no reaction. The only time hed ever touch me is if Id grab is hand and place it on my chest in a teasing way. I could lay naked next to him every night and it wouldnt make any difference.
I went to the doctor years ago for my annual exam, and he asked if I experienced pain during intercourse. I just started sobbing. It was at that point I realized how much I hurt from this situation Im in. I told him we dont have sex. And he just looked at me and said, What do you mean? I dont understand. I told him what I could between sobs, and then he mentioned that its not me and that there is an orientation called asexual. I didnt give it much more thought and just went back to my life, trying to ignore what was missing, except the term Asexual was always in the back of my mind. I thought maybe he could be gay, but he is adamant that he isnt. After that appointment, I told my husband that I sobbed in the doctors office because I couldnt answer his question. He really didnt understand why it bothered me so. After all, hes getting everything he wants and needs from this relationship.
I asked my husband once if he enjoyed sex years ago when he had it with previous girlfriends or his fiancé (who cheated on him). He said that was so long ago he doesnt remember the specific times. So I rephrased my question. Did you enjoy sex generally then? He said it was so long ago he really doesnt remember. He said he assumes he did. How can you not know if you like to have sex or not? I asked him if hed ever been sexually abused, and he said he didnt think so. Didnt think so? Why not just say no? Very strange.
Approximately six years ago, I urged him to see a doctor, because I thought maybe it was his testosterone level. He wasnt really receptive to the idea but he did go. Again, he really doesnt feel like there is anything wrong. He is getting everything he needs from the relationship. His level was around 180, which is low. So the doctor prescribed T gel, but he said that made him feel strange and it wasnt having any effect on him anyways, so I told him to just quit. He also complained that it cost him $100 a month. More time went by and nothing ever changed. I just tried to suppress myself and be happy.
I decided to not try to initiate anymore. I was always kind. ]Never tried to make him do anything he didnt want to do or feel comfortable with, so our very limited sex life has been limited to mutual masturbation and me performing oral sex on him. There was one time many years ago that we tried to have intercourse, and I could tell he was very uncomfortable. There was maybe an inch of penetration, and then we stopped. I think he ejaculated but I dont know. I told him that its common for guys to get to that point before women, and that the more we do it, that will help him last longer too and feel more comfortable. I tried to reassure him that I dont expect it to be perfect. We havent tried to have sex since then. That little experience evidently was just too traumatizing for him.
In July of this year, I basically told my husband I couldnt live this way anymore. I would wait for him to initiate many times, and after four months, I couldnt take it anymore. Suddenly he cared that I was hurting, because it may affect his meals and companionship if I decided I wanted a divorce. He went back to the doctor (hes been on shots for a year with no change), and they upped his dosage to every two weeks. His T level was still low two weeks ago at 180. I showed him this website, and told him I found some of the things very interesting and similar to what weve been experiencing. He looked at it and thought he could identify with gray-a.
We went and saw a marriage counselor last night. My husband wouldnt admit to the counselor that he told me he thought he was gray-a. The counselor basically said that he doesnt think my husband is asexual because my husband told him that he enjoyed sex with his girlfriend in high school (not what he told me), and that he can get aroused and have erections. The counselor is convinced that if my husbands T level can get up the 600 range, that everything will magically be better and all our problems with sex will magically go away. He said he can fix our "problem" and that its his job to help my husband get over his insecurities and fear of sex. The counselor said I need to be receptive now, after all these years of turning that part of me off. The counselor didnt seem too concerned that my husband hasnt masterbated his entire adult life. The counselor acknowledged that men masterbate. I told him women masterbate too when they arent getting any. Evidently Im the only woman on the planet who masterbates. I dont even know if Im in love with my husband anymore. I dont find him sexually attractive anymore because I had to turn that off so long ago due to the hurt it caused me. I do love him, otherwise I wouldnt still be here but its not the same as how you are supposed to be in love with your spouse. I love him as a good friend. I was hoping the counselor would ask my husband more questions to get to the root of how he feels or why he feels the way he does. I dont think this counselor even understands the term asexual, even though he told me over the phone that he has some experience with it. If the counselor is going to help my husband learn to feel comfortable with sex and to fake it for my sake, Im really not interested in that. Having been in other relationships before, I know how it should feel when two people are attracted to one another and want to have sex together. It just happens. You dont have to try, or think, it just happens.
My husband says if I really loved him, this wouldnt bother me so much, and that I would stay with him no matter what. He says hed still love me if I became paralyzed. He just doesnt know what hes missing because he doesnt miss it and never has. He doesnt have that desire or need. Im not sure if raising his T level is going to help that from what Ive read on these forums. The counselor thinks so. I have a hard time believing that after 10 years, where hes been aroused before, but never wanted to have sex, that this is going to be fixed by T, when it seems hes had enough T to get an erection and be aroused before and just didnt want to do anything with it. How long do I wait, when it seems Ive been patient and waiting for 10 years? Do I try to have sex with my husband, even though I know he really doesnt want to and is just doing it to say he tried? If he tries, how long will that last before he reverts back to his normal self? How many more years will I wait? How long will we struggle with this? If Id have never made an issue of sex, he wouldve been perfectly happy never having sex with me the rest of our lives.
I dont even feel like a woman when Im around him. I feel like Im his replacement mom, like I have another child that will never grow up and move out and be on his own. My husband also manipulates my kids and parents so that they think Im being unreasonable. He buys my kids all sorts of expensive things. He talks to my parents without my knowledge. He tells others what he wants them to hear. For instance, I told him he should talk to his parents about our difficulties. He told me he told his dad and that he was very understanding. I thought about that for awhile and knowing how my husband can omit info or turn facts around sometimes, I asked him what his dad said when he told him that we hadnt had sex the entire time weve been together. His response was that he only told his dad that hes had a reduced sex drive for awhile. Im sorry, but I think there is a huge difference between telling someone youve had a low sex drive for awhile and telling them you havent wanted to have sex with your wife the entire 10 years youve been in the relationship. That turned into a huge argument. He doesnt see why thats a big deal to only say what he said. I think he thinks if he turns everyone against me that I will have no support and will stay with him. I will look like a terrible person in all this because I cant stay with someone who doesnt want to have sex with me. If hes going to turn my kids against me, I dont know how long I can stay with someone like that.
I dont know if Im making much sense anymore, so Im going to sign off for now. I couldve written so much more, but this has gotten long enough.
-sexualwife

[jojo2003]

Dear SexualWife,

That is quite a story you have. I am a sexual partner from an asexual, who I have been with for more than 15 years now. My partner is what I call sexually repulsed, which means that my partner can not engage in the physical acts of sex (or masturbation for all that matters).

If it is asexuality your husband is coping with, I think you should consider the fact that is is not going to get any better. Especially if factors like sexually repulsiveness are in play.

Just between you and me, that counsolor seems not the right choice, if he really acts like you describe him.

It seems to me that, although you appearantly communicate with your husband, I do not know how much really reaches him. I know from experience it is difficult, and most of the time I can not be bothered to discuss all again, but try to talk to him and explain you do not want to place any blame (on all parts there seems to be a atmosphere of blame and turning poeple into "camps).

The most important part for me was the realization that it was not my fault, nor my partners. It took me quite some time to realise, but Aven has helped me a lot with that. Of course I still have moments where I do not know what I am doing and get depressed by the situation, but also have a lot of good moments again.

There must be something that has kept you together for such a long time. Try to figure out a way which suits you both, whether being in an open relationship, having "sex on appointment" (to describe it in a practical way) or having no sex. You have to talk to eachother.

If all else fails, you can seperate, but something tells me you would not go through all this trouble and now quit.

Best of luck to you.

[FlaafyTaffy]

If you feel like sex is something you need in a relationship then maybe it's time to end the relationship. If you are having a lot of depression from it or not feeling like a real woman, then there is a big problem with the relationship You should be happy and you shouldn't have to sacrifice such a big part of yourself that is important to you. Either he should compromise and start giving you the sex that you need, you open up the relationship so you can explore other sexual partners, or end the relationship. If he loves you he should understand that your happiness matters too.

[Disco Stu]

Hi sexual wife,

I'm also new to this forum. Reading your post made me feel quite emotional. The strange thing is, I'm like your husband though. I'm only just getting my head around this. I'm 38 years old and thought I was pretty normal until recently. The problem was I didn't know what normal was. I'm putting my partner through a similar situation to yours, but never quite understood what I was doing to her. Its hard to imagine what she is missing out on, as I don't need it. What you say is almost exactly to the word, what she says to me. I can not possibly understand what it is doing to her.

Through her initiative we have found this website, and I am starting to accept and understand who / what I am. It seems it is so difficult to see from each others perspective, as they are polar opposites. She can't see why I don't feel something, I can't see why she does....

Your husband needs to learn, understand & accept who he is and the effects that has on you.

You can not surpress who you are as much as he can not be something he isn't.

Hopefully you can find something that works for both of you - which is most likely going to be outside the bounds of a "normal" relationship.

He's going to have to be very honest with himself, see who he is, not what he wants to be or wants the world to think he is.

Its difficult - I'm right there now.

Ps, get rid of that counsellor.....

[Guest]

Hmm. I am asexual and while I get why he can't understand sex is important to you (I don't understand it either), your husband, no offense... seems a bit selfish. He initiates only when he can get oral sex and have to return nothing? Yikes. I can understand why that would upset you, even if I can't understand sex being vital to people (though I know it is, I just can never feel it, so will never quite get it). He also should not be telling you that you're the problem and that you don't love him if you are upset by this, that is not cool to do in a relationship, with any issue. Your feelings are important to you and should be to him as well. And he should not try to cast you in a bad light over it to your friends/family. He also, if the relationship is to work, has to communicate a lot better with you and the counselor.

In a healthy relationship that is only bothered by the sex issue, there are a few options. Outside sex, polyamory or open relationship. Compromise, where a level of sexual intimacy is reached that both parties can be comfortable with. Or breaking up. Now, most mixed relationships compromise, but some find open relationship to work for them. Both require both parties RESPECTING each others feelings, open communication where both parties are comfortable discussing it and working out a solution and a very big heaping of trust, especially the open section.

Sex is just like any other incompability in a relationship. I wouldn't date someone who expected me to watch comedies all the time, why should sex be viewed differently? Why would it be any worse to leave someone because you need sex than because you need anything else? There is NOTHING wrong with having your own needs in a relationship and as someones partner, I accept that. In my own relationship I compromise, if I ever could not do it, we would break up and I would have no hard feelings towards him. And I think most of us on here wouldn't think badly of you if you had to walk away to be happy. So don't feel bad about admitting you need sex. :) It's normal and HUMAN to have specific needs, which ones someone has varies by person.

As for the counselor, I agree, dump him. Women don't masturbate but men do? What? Hormone levels MIGHT solve his issue, but might not. He should be working on your communication together during treatment and getting you two to discuss your feelings on if it doesn't magically "fix anything". Though, your husband isn't helping there if he's saying he enjoyed sex and won't admit he's asexual, if he is and admitted it to you. Again, communication needs to be fixed before anything else can be.

[Lady Girl]

How long do I wait, when it seems Ive been patient and waiting for 10 years? Do I try to have sex with my husband, even though I know he really doesnt want to and is just doing it to say he tried? If he tries, how long will that last before he reverts back to his normal self? How many more years will I wait? How long will we struggle with this?

How long you will wait is for sure up to you. Perhaps you can think of it as him having sexual relations with you to try to make you happy if it were to come to that, perhaps not. Some asexuals can compromise on sex and some cannot. Reverting back really hasn't much to do with it. It is what it is, you will have to see your way clear to choose a path for yourself.

[sexualwife]

Thank you all so much for responding....Years ago before I found AVEN or researched asexuality, I was getting really frustrated when he would tell me how much he loved me. I would say things like "if you love me like you say you do, then why don't you want to have sex with me? It's the most intimate thing we can do to show our love and share our love for one another". Or "I've been in other relationships, and this just isn't normal to not ever have sex." I know now that was very hurtful for me to say. I didn't understand that it's not his choice and since I've never been in this situation, I really didn't know what was going on. He really doesn't understand how I feel, because I truly think he's never been any other way. I always took my other relationships for granted, regarding the sexual part anyways. I didn't know about the whole spectrum of sexuality until recently. He is who he is. I've told him that I understand now. It's no one's fault. We are who we are. We are not compatible that way. We are compatible in alot of other ways. We enjoy each other's company, we are very family oriented, etc. He's pretty easy to get along with on a daily basis. I guess that's why I've stayed so long and tried to repress my feelings and needs and tried to be happy for me and everyone's sake. No relationship is perfect. But this just keeps resurfacing for me. It's just really hard for me to think I may never have sex again as long as we're together. We've never talked about me going outside the marriage for sex, but I know what that answer will be. It's not an option. It's tough for me to understand that he doesn't want me that way, but doesn't want anyone else to be with be that way either. I don't think I'd want to do that anyways. I'd have to be separated or divorced from him. Sex is not just a physical act for me. I think in the end, it would just get too painful for everyone involved.

I think the reason he doesn't want to admit that he's asexual is not because of the label, but because he knows what that would mean to the relationship. He knows how deeply I feel about this and that it could mean that I will leave. I feel like he's in denial about it. Like others that have said similar things on here, I know that if our relationship ended, I would have the opportunity to find someone to have a relationship with plus be sexual with as well. It would be a complete relationship to me and not just a roommate situation. I wish that everything else he is and everything else he does would be enough. Why can't it be enough for me? He's a really great guy, a great step-dad to my kids (except for being manipulative and stretching the truth on occasion). Nobody's perfect. I know I'm sure not perfect. No relationship is ever perfect either. So why can't I get over this and just accept that this is the way it's going to be? I want to, but I just don't think I can. I really want that connection with someone. I don't want to hurt him. I don't want to hurt my family or my kids. But do I live for everyone else? What happens later when my kids are both grown and living elsewhere and my wonderful parents are gone? I will still be in this situation. I don't want to become a bitter old resentful hateful woman that's mad at the world. Somedays I feel that is who I'm becoming. I have a hard time not feeling used by him. He's gotten a roommate that helps pay the bills, cooks the meals, cleans the house, washes the laundry, etc. and I've gotten a roommate that's a good step-dad to my kids. I think I'd rather be alone with the hope of someday finding someone to have a relationship with and who I'm compatible with sexually, than to settle and never have sex again. It's really sad for me to read so many posts from so many people that choose to live that way forever, where it is a constant struggle, where it's always that white elephant in the room. I know I can't live this way much longer and feel like I am hanging on by my fingertips.

The counselor we saw the other night told me I should see someone else first to work through my anger and resentment. He could tell that it's really been building for 10 years, probably because I was fighting back tears the entire time. I'm usually a very strong person, but I'm getting close to my breaking point. I've scheduled an appointment for today, however when I mentioned "asexuality" on the phone to her, the phone went silent, and I could tell she really didn't know what I was talking about. These people have Masters degrees and PhD's for crying out loud. Why aren't these professionals trained in the spectrum of sexuality and all the different variances that can happen when a human is developed and formed? It's very frustrating when you know you should talk to a professional, or are told you should, and there is no one out there that has enough training or knowledge to help you or even understand what you are going through? These forums go back to 2005. Why aren't they teaching this in the colleges and universities so that professionals can be knowledgable or even specialists in this?

My husband is convinced now that it's his testosterone level that's causing him to not want to have sex with me. What's strange is that he has enough T to have erections and get aroused, but then doesn't want to do anything with it. I guess that's why I doubt that it's the T level. If he couldn't get erections or have trouble keeping one, then I would really think we were getting close to figuring out that what could be going on is medical. He says it will take time to get his level up to 600. He's been at 180 for a year while taking shots and in the past three months where they doubled the dose, so I'm having my doubts as to how long that could take or even if it's possible at this point. As far as compromising goes, I feel we've been doing that for the entire 10 years we've been together. We've only done what he's been comfortable with and I've never pushed the issue. I feel if and when he tries to do more than that, he will be doing something he really doesn't want to do, has never really had the desire to do, but knows he needs to, to keep me from wanting a divorce. I'm just not real comfortable with that idea because I know that it will be an awkward situation. It just doesn't come natural to him and I truly think he doesn't feel any passion, desire or arousal for what he's doing. There's no feeling in it. I don't know how else to explain it. I know over time that will fade too, and we'll be right back where we have been, and I'll just be that much older.

I'm in the same situation as many others on here. Life tends to get complicated when you share a house and a life with someone for many years and there are still children living at home. People say to just leave, it's that easy. No, it really isn't, without leaving a path of destruction and financial consequences that may be difficult to deal with or recover from at the stage in life you are in. I'm not going to walk away from a house that I've made 90% of the payments on. I have a kid in college and a kid that has a couple years left in high school. I have a credit card balance I'm trying to pay off. I can support myself and my kids, but it would be very, very tight. My husband has given them alot of things they wouldn't have had before and they would have to learn it's okay to live without them, which I'm sure they'd be angry at me for. My older child has also been going through some things that have been really hard on her. I really don't want to add to her list of things to deal with. She is too young to be so burdened and is already on anti-depressants. If I only had to consider myself in all this, I would already be gone, which is really sad to say. I'm very independent and am self-sufficient. But when you have other people depending on you, and their lives will be affected, I think of them first and just try to be happy with the way things are. You just deal with it the best way you know how at the time. That's just how I've felt since becoming a parent. And maybe now that I'm older, I'm alot more careful about making rash decisions too. When you're older, you tend to think about consequences alot more than younger people. You find out you aren't invincible and bad things can and do happen.

Luckily we never tried to have kids together and my kids are almost grown, so I feel like I will be able to make changes and live life for me in a few years finally. Oh, one interesting comment regarding us having kids together. My sister-in-law once told me at a holiday gathering that I was selfish for not wanting to have kids with her brother so he could have his own biological kids. I just looked at her and didn't really know what to say. I was so caught off guard. I didn't say anything, but all I could think of is that it's kind of difficult to have kids with someone when they have never wanted to have sex with you and have never had sex with you. I don't know if he told her I didn't want to have kids with him or what. He tends to put the responsibility on others when he feels cornered, so that wouldn't surprise me. I always told him if he wanted to have kids, I was willing to, but he never wanted to, and maybe it's because we would've had to have sex to accomplish that. I don't know. But thank goodness some prayers aren't answered. Hindsight is truly 20/20.

-sexualwife

[sexualwife]

Hi Lady Girl,

Thanks for your response. I didn't see it until after I posted the above response. Everything you say makes total sense. I know he's really trying and doesn't want to give up on the relationship. I do believe he loves me, but sometimes I worry he's afraid of losing me because he's just worried about where his meals would come from then. There would be no one taking care of everything anymore for him. He would be on his own. He's really not independent at all. He doesn't like to be alone. The reason I told him to talk with his parents is so that they weren't blindsided regarding all that's been going on if we were to separate. He's also very close to his parents and talks to them almost every day. His mother has always talked about sex like it's the greatest thing in the world, even saying she taught her husband everything he knows, at family dinners and such (to the point where I was even uncomfortable), so I was hoping that they would help him understand how sex is important to some people, and that I'm not being unreasonable. He will listen when they say something. His mother was the one to suggest that we see a sex therapist, so then he was willing to go see someone. If I would've suggested it, I don't think he would've been as willing to go.

-sexualwife

[jojo2003]

Dear sexualwife,

I am sorry we can not be more of a relief to you, but there are some things you will have to go through by yourself.

It is good to see a start of understanding from your side. I can only hope for you your husband gets a bit more open to the "miscommunication" in your relationship as well.

I do recognize a lot of things though. It seems really unfair that someone who does not want to have sexual relations, does on the other hand not want you to have them with someone else... Look for some discussion on that point on the forum. Please note that I can not do open relationships, but sometimes I just want to say to my partner: "If you don't think sex is important in a relationship, then why is it all of a sudden important in our relationship if someone else is involved." You see, we are not always reasonable either....

Although you describe feeling sad for us staying in that struggle, please note that we do focus a lot on this issue on this forum. For most of us it is a way to blow of steam to others who know what we are going through. However, my relationship has a lot of high notes as well. That is the reason I am staying with my partner.

Again, this is a process you will have to go through, but know that blowing off steam to my newfound friends on this forum helps a lot.

Best of luck for now.

[sexualwife]

I went to see the other counselor yesterday afternoon by myself, so that I could start to work on my anger and resentment. She doesn't know anything about asexuality either. She says it must be very rare because she's always thought that sexual difficulties are always related to hormonal problems or a traumatic event in a person's life. (Sigh...) She asked me if my husband ever was abused. I told her that when I asked him that a few months ago, he said he didn't think so. She did think that was an odd way to answer that question. I'm not sure if I want to continue to see these counselors or not because our situation really isn't going to change, there's nothing to "fix". We are who we are and that's just the way it's going to be.

When I remarked that it made me sad to read some of the posts on here, I meant that it makes me sad because this is a forever situation. I do truly admire the strength and commitment of all the sexuals on here that stay with their partners and keep trying to make it work. I've always thought I was a strong person, but I don't think I'm as strong as you all are. My intent was never to insult or patronize anyone. I have alot of respect for everyone on this site, because we are all trying to live with a difficult situation.

I do realize that I'm the only one who can decide what to do. I didn't come hear for answers even though I asked alot of questions in my post. It's just stuff that goes through my mind. I guess the reason I posted was to vent like so many others and to share my story, as I'm sure it's similar to what other's have experienced. It does seem to help to type it all out and get it out instead of keeping it bottled inside.

I did tell him I wanted him to leave for a few days, that I just need some time apart from him. He refused and just continues to act like everything's perfect. I think he thinks I will just give up and not care anymore. If it were just me, I would leave myself for a few days, but I still have a daughter at home. I just don't want to make this any worse for her than it already is.

I do have one question and hopefully a few will respond to this. Maybe it's been asked before, but I haven't see it. Has your asexual partner ever tried to repulse you so you stop initiating? Such as, only brushing their teeth once a week, cleaning their ears only once a month, not washing their hands or not using soap when they wash their hands after using the restroom? When I told the first counselor we saw together that I felt at times my husband has tried to repulse me in the past, to keep me from wanting him, he thought I was just being over sensitive to every little thing since never having sex has me on edge. I was just wondering if that was something any of your partners have tried? Or if you are asexual if that's something you've done to keep your sexual partner from wanting you? Just curious. Maybe I am reading into every little thing. But he had good hygiene until I started to get frustrated with the situation. Maybe it's just a coincidence.

-sexualwife

[Lady Girl]

Someone who generally has good hygiene will sometimes let things slide when they become depressed or despondent.

I used to also think that my husband had it made and didn't care about what I wanted as long as everything was going his way. There was nothing further from the truth than this assumption. Asexual partners are not without feelings or unaware that we may think of them as failures in the bedroom.

One thing I do feel strongly about...in a situation like this, both people have their difficulties and heartaches. I don't know, have you thought what it actually might feel like to be him and that he knows what you think of him and how that might hurt? This is kind of what JoJo was trying to say...it's not us who are so strong...it's both people.

I do think you should be able to go away for a couple days, I'm sure sorry you're not going to.

[Guest]

I do have one question and hopefully a few will respond to this. Maybe it's been asked before, but I haven't see it. Has your asexual partner ever tried to repulse you so you stop initiating? Such as, only brushing their teeth once a week, cleaning their ears only once a month, not washing their hands or not using soap when they wash their hands after using the restroom? When I told the first counselor we saw together that I felt at times my husband has tried to repulse me in the past, to keep me from wanting him, he thought I was just being over sensitive to every little thing since never having sex has me on edge. I was just wondering if that was something any of your partners have tried? Or if you are asexual if that's something you've done to keep your sexual partner from wanting you? Just curious. Maybe I am reading into every little thing. But he had good hygiene until I started to get frustrated with the situation. Maybe it's just a coincidence.

-sexualwife

I don't really do that to my partner. Though it can get frustrating when he wants sex multiple times in a day, since I like to shower afterwards, so it's like I am showering way too much and sometimes I just feel like not doing it at all that day until he is done (which can take all day), or the weekend if he wants sex constantly on the weekend he has off work. Sometimes I can end up showering 10+ times in a weekend, ack! lol I am obsessive about my teeth though. I however did do this once with someone...

My brother took a sexual interest in me when I was young and I did let my hygiene slack to try to get him to leave me alone. But it didn't work.

So it is possible as a tactic to try to turn someone off. Being depressed can also lead to not caring as much about hygiene.

[jojo2003]

When I remarked that it made me sad to read some of the posts on here, I meant that it makes me sad because this is a forever situation. I do truly admire the strength and commitment of all the sexuals on here that stay with their partners and keep trying to make it work. I've always thought I was a strong person, but I don't think I'm as strong as you all are. My intent was never to insult or patronize anyone. I have alot of respect for everyone on this site, because we are all trying to live with a difficult situation.

You can say whatever you want. It takes a lot more to insult me and I have posted way worse things. We know a bit about what you are going through and to be honoust, you have not said that much to offend anyone.

Hope you can work things out in a way you will be happier than you seem at this point. Good luck.

I used to also think that my husband had it made and didn't care about what I wanted as long as everything was going his way. There was nothing further from the truth than this assumption. Asexual partners are not without feelings or unaware that we may think of them as failures in the bedroom. This is kind of what JoJo was trying to say...it's not us who are so strong...it's both people.

Yes, that is exactly how I ment it. My partner rather avoids the subject at most times, since it is very hard to discuss for both of us. Asexuals do have feelings indeed and may sometimes themselves feel that they are failures in the bedroom, since peer pressure dictates a "normal healthy" sex life.

[< retired >]

Approximately six years ago, I urged him to see a doctor, because I thought maybe it was his testosterone level. He wasn’t really receptive to the idea but he did go. Again, he really doesn’t feel like there is anything wrong. He is getting everything he needs from the relationship. His level was around 180, which is low. So the doctor prescribed T gel, but he said that made him feel strange and it wasn’t having any effect on him anyways, so I told him to just quit. He also complained that it cost him $100 a month. More time went by and nothing ever changed. I just tried to suppress myself and be happy.

...

He went back to the doctor (he’s been on shots for a year with no change), and they upped his dosage to every two weeks. His T level was still low two weeks ago at 180. I showed him this website, and told him I found some of the things very interesting and similar to what we’ve been experiencing. He looked at it and thought he could identify with “gray-a”.

We went and saw a marriage counselor last night. My husband wouldn’t admit to the counselor that he told me he thought he was “gray-a”. The counselor basically said that he doesn’t think my husband is asexual because my husband told him that he enjoyed sex with his girlfriend in high school (not what he told me), and that he can get aroused and have erections. The counselor is convinced that if my husband’s T level can get up the 600 range, that everything will magically be better and all our problems with sex will magically go away.

Your 'counselor' may be poorly informed regarding the relationship between testosterone level and libido. If I were in your shoes, I would ask for the scientific studies that support his opinion. Unfortunately, you then need to be able distinguish well-designed from poorly-designed studies. If you haven't acquired the intellectual toolkit to properly do this, then you may need to track down a geek to help you.

Welcome to AVEN, and good luck!

[frakas]

Like Disco Stu, I was essentially the male in your relationship. Your husband sounds a little selfish, and unwilling to compromise, so that's where I'd probably start the conversation. Even though I was an ace, I was always happy to have sex; as often and however my wife wanted to do it. I really enjoy the sex itself (and orgasms are great), I just don't feel the arousal. When I was young, erections were easy to get, but it got harder to perform as I got older.

There are essentially three options here:

1. Open up the marriage, and seek sex elsewhere with your husband's approval. It'll be difficult in the beginning, but you'll both become comfortable with the arrangement over time. You can define the rules however you both like, but always move towards you feeling fulfilled sexually. That will let you reclaim the other parts of your marriage that were suffering.

2. Compromise. Agree to a certain schedule on sex, and a certain range of activities which can be expected: oral, etc. But you'll need to okay with the reality that he's "going through the motions" for you. You might be amazed at how much of a difference this makes. It releases the pressure like a safety valve. I know you'd like sex to be spontaneous, but setting a schedule can really help. Woman are often turned on by being desired sexually, so this might be a deal killer for you.

3. Find his kink. It's possible that he's a pure ace, but it's also possible that he has a secret kink that you don't know about yet, and he's too ashamed to admit. If you do press him on it, be ready for the answer. If he needs you to tie him up and hit him with a whip, are you prepared to do that? If you're serious, find a bunch of porn genres, start at the beginning and gauge his sexual arousal with each variety - you'll know when you've found it.

If you can't make one of those work, and the medical interventions don't help, you'll probably need to separate.

[Lady Girl]

Many asexual partners are not happy to have sex anytime their partner wants it, and this does not make them unreasonable people (it means they don't want to have sex). If my husband had sex with me whenever I wanted it, I would have had no reason to seek an explanation. Also, while there are a lot of asexuals on the site who feel indifferent towards partnered sex and they may be able to more frequently oblige their partner, there are also a lot of asexuals who feel anywhere from slightly to incredibly repulsed, and compromise may be possible, but somewhat more strained.

I have to disagree with the comment about becoming more comfortable with an open marriage over time. That is not how that always works, and personally I would not suggest that option unless both partners were quite willing to give it a real go from the start. I feel both people should be comfortable with the idea and know that's what they want.

Option number three listed above is actually part of the compromise option (I think). I also would not press something like that with someone who, at the very best, sounds slightly repulsed. And the final statement of possible separation is actually the third option.

[Fricai]

The manipulation and lack of regard for your feelings/happiness sounds much more troubling to me then just a difference in sexual orientation. Not to be rude, but I don't even see how you managed to stick with him for so long. I really think it is best to leave him.

And that wouldn't necessarily be because you're not as strong as others, others might have an asexual partner who actually gives a crap and tries a hell of a lot harder to make the sexual partner happy. Only then can such a thing work, if both work hard on compromising, not if one just gets it his way and hopes the other will get rid of her ridiculous feelings...

I'm sorry, that's just how I see it. I get sad just from reading about how this affects you. You deserve better.

Oh and indeed, that therapist sound horrible. Anyone who reads the wiki on sexuality + the aven faq has more expertise... :S

Your doctor sounds nice though.

[Guest]

Like Disco Stu, I was essentially the male in your relationship. Your husband sounds a little selfish, and unwilling to compromise, so that's where I'd probably start the conversation. Even though I was an ace, I was always happy to have sex; as often and however my wife wanted to do it. I really enjoy the sex itself (and orgasms are great), I just don't feel the arousal. When I was young, erections were easy to get, but it got harder to perform as I got older.

There are essentially three options here:

1. Open up the marriage, and seek sex elsewhere with your husband's approval. It'll be difficult in the beginning, but you'll both become comfortable with the arrangement over time. You can define the rules however you both like, but always move towards you feeling fulfilled sexually. That will let you reclaim the other parts of your marriage that were suffering.

2. Compromise. Agree to a certain schedule on sex, and a certain range of activities which can be expected: oral, etc. But you'll need to okay with the reality that he's "going through the motions" for you. You might be amazed at how much of a difference this makes. It releases the pressure like a safety valve. I know you'd like sex to be spontaneous, but setting a schedule can really help. Woman are often turned on by being desired sexually, so this might be a deal killer for you.

3. Find his kink. It's possible that he's a pure ace, but it's also possible that he has a secret kink that you don't know about yet, and he's too ashamed to admit. If you do press him on it, be ready for the answer. If he needs you to tie him up and hit him with a whip, are you prepared to do that? If you're serious, find a bunch of porn genres, start at the beginning and gauge his sexual arousal with each variety - you'll know when you've found it.

If you can't make one of those work, and the medical interventions don't help, you'll probably need to separate.

Indeed as Lady Girl says a lof of asexuals are not happy to have sex and many of us do not enjoy it at all, Frakas. I find it highly boring and I am anything but happy to do it whenever my partner wants ( I get no physical pleasure, period ). And I could NEVER become comfortable with an open relationship, no matter if I tried to get better at it over time, I just wouldn't be able to do it. I do have a level I can compromise though with my partner, which keeps him content even if not fully satisfied. And it's done with a schedule. But even then, I have to mentally prepare myself for it as a tiring chore rather than enjoy it.

[frakas]

@Liara - I'm not saying do all three, I'm saying that one of them can work to find a compromise. In this case you've chosen option 2, and set a schedule. Other people are relieved at the option of an open relationship. It all depends on the people in the relationship.

What doesn't work are ultimatums, which is what's happening in sexualwife's relationship. Her husband has set an ultimatum, and it's causing her pain.

@Lady Girl - For many sexuals, it's not just about frequency, it's about the mutual desire. Even if you have sex every day, it can be hard when the other person is just "going through the motions". That's why people complain that "s/he never initiates"; they don't just want sex, they want their asexual partner to want sex.

[Guest]

I have to disagree with the comment about becoming more comfortable with an open marriage over time. That is not how that always works, and personally I would not suggest that option unless both partners were quite willing to give it a real go from the start. I feel both people should be comfortable with the idea and know that's what they want.

Very much poly myself, and I could not agree more. Open/poly arrangements are awesome if that's what all participants really want; however, I doubt that they can work well as a "lesser evil" option for people who would actually prefer monogamy. I've actually heard some poly people consider polyamory to be an orientation (I don't quite agree, but I see where they're coming from - it's certainly a solid philosophical conviction for me), so I doubt that you could just try it as a fix-it/bandaid and expect it to solve your 'ship problems.

[Lucinda]

You said you can't go away for a few days as it will make things worse for your daughter than they already are. You also mentioned that your older daughter is dealing with issues and is already on antidepressants. There must be something else going on, although I am not encouraging you to reveal any more about your daughters than you already have. My concern is with them and I wanted to point out my observation.

Your second therapist doesn't have to know about asexuality. You are not asexual, but you are the one dealing with anger and resentment. Perhaps you are angry at your first husband for putting you in this situation through death or divorce? Perhaps you are resentful for having to look for a father figure to help financially support your family? Perhaps you are angry at yourself for marrying a man who, after five years, you knew wasn't the ideal sex partner for you. Perhaps you are resentful that the world didn't deliver to you men who wanted to have sex with you as well as wrap their world around you and your family? Perhaps the resentment comes from the fact that life seems unfair and the dreams you had in your 20s didn't come true?

And what sort of spillover effect has this had? Do other people make you bitter -or- is your life and your choices leading to your bitterness? To what extent do you feel others should take on the blame either directly or indirectly?

"I have a hard time not feeling used by him."

And I wonder if he is now coming to the realization that you have been using him?

"He's gotten a roommate that helps pay the bills, cooks the meals, cleans the house, washes the laundry, etc. and I've gotten a roommate that's a good step-dad to my kids."

Do you think if you had originally defined the relationship as such, that you wouldn't have had the expectations and frustrations that you now do? Could you redefine your relationship to be for and dependent on the raising of your daughters to adulthood?

"I think I'd rather be alone with the hope of someday finding someone to have a relationship with and who I'm compatible with sexually, than to settle and never have sex again."

You think? You mean you do not know?

I wish you the best,

Lucinda

[Vampyremage]

I have to disagree with the comment about becoming more comfortable with an open marriage over time. That is not how that always works, and personally I would not suggest that option unless both partners were quite willing to give it a real go from the start. I feel both people should be comfortable with the idea and know that's what they want.

Very much poly myself, and I could not agree more. Open/poly arrangements are awesome if that's what all participants really want; however, I doubt that they can work well as a "lesser evil" option for people who would actually prefer monogamy. I've actually heard some poly people consider polyamory to be an orientation (I don't quite agree, but I see where they're coming from - it's certainly a solid philosophical conviction for me), so I doubt that you could just try it as a fix-it/bandaid and expect it to solve your 'ship problems.

I would be inclined to agree with this. I would also state that it has the potential to be extremely unfair to the third party that gets involved. Consider an example whereby what both original partners really want is monogomy but they comprimise by seeking a third so the sexual partner has someone to engage in sexual activity with. Because the original expectation and desire was for monogomy and because sex was the primary reason to go searching for a third, directly or indirectly such an arrangement has the potential to be an absolute emotional mess. An open relationship in which partners engage in mostly casual sex is one thing but a polyamerous relationship is a very different sort of thing.

[jojo2003]

Option number three listed above is actually part of the compromise option (I think). I also would not press something like that with someone who, at the very best, sounds slightly repulsed. And the final statement of possible separation is actually the third option.

Option three actually put a smile to my face when I though about proposing it to my sexual repulsed partner. I think we would have had a very interesting, though not very friendly, discussion about it, to put it mildly.

Be very careful with this option with a possibly sexually repulsed person. If there was some "kink" would have your husband suggested something in that direction already, rather then abstanation?

[sexualwife]

Thank you all so much for posting. I do appreciate all of your comments.

Regarding Lady Girls' suggestion that he could've been depressed and that's why he stopped having good hygiene, that's a possibility. I guess I didn't think of it though since he didn't seem or act depressed in any other way.

Regarding Lucinda's comments...I do not need my husband to survive financially. I work full time and could pay the bills by myself. I also carry all the insurance. It would be tight, but I could do it. My kids didn't need me to find them a father figure. We have enough good men in our family that could've filled that role for them and they still do have their biological father in their lives as well. I am resentful and angry partly because I realize now that I shouldn't have married him. Yes, I'm angry at myself for getting into this situation, and for also getting my family into this situation. I know I'm not the innocent victim here, but I'm also not going to accept all the responsibility for being in this situation either. As I mentioned before, hindsight is 20/20. We fell in love with each other. I didn't know about asexuality back then and always thought that his desire and love for me would overcome his fear of intercourse. I never experienced anything like this before. If I had, I would've turned and walked away right then, knowing how things wouldn't change or that it would always be a struggle. I think by his age at the time we got together, he probably knew his feelings weren't as "normal" (what society thinks is normal, please don't attack me for this wording) as other men, but he never mentioned that he would never want to have sex, even though I'm sure he could tell I knew things were different between us and that I wanted more. And to his defense, maybe he always thought that he would eventually feel different too, but it just never happened. When you're busy working full time, paying bills, raising kids, attending all their activities, etc., 10 years can go by awfully quick. I always held out hope that things would improve someday. I didn't want to give up too soon, and then always wonder if I just would've given it more time, maybe it would've improved.

There are financial things I resent though too. He refused to help pay the mortgage for 7 years, saying he couldn't afford it, however he'd go buy thousands of dollars of unnecessary items. That's also how he's always been able to buy things for my kids that they really didn't need either. If I didn't have a mortgage, I'd be able to buy alot of unnecessary, fun items too. I finally had enough, after he bought something for $3,500 and didn't tell me for a month. I told him if he could afford all those things he didn't need, then he could start paying the mortgage this year, and he has. He only paid the utilities for the past 7 years, so he got a free place to live all that time, home-cooked meals, maid service and laundry service and a platonic companion that didn't pressure him.

I'd really rather not go into my oldest child's difficulties, but would just like to say that they have absolutely nothing to do with my relationship to her step-dad. When children have difficulties, I realize it's society's inclination to say it's the parents' fault. As a parent, you come to the realization that you can do everything in your power to be the best parent possible, but then things can still be difficult. We are a normal middle-class family. There is no alcohol or drug use.

I've decided to take the counselor's advice and not turn down any advances from my husband and see where it leads. I don't know how long that will take for him to initiate. It will be difficult since I've built quite a wall in self-defense all these years to keep from being hurt by the rejection and from him ignoring me in bed. I'll wait for him to initiate and we'll see what he's comfortable with. I do realize I'll need to be patient. I've been patient for 10 years. But I won't be patient forever.

I do know that I would be better off alone in the hopes to someday find a complete relationship instead of struggling with all this for the rest of my life. Like I said previously, I'm very independent and self-sufficient.

Hope you all have a wonderful holiday! I'll keep you posted on how things go.

-sexualwife

[Guest]

Thank you all so much for posting. I do appreciate all of your comments.

Yes, I'm angry at myself for getting into this situation, and for also getting my family into this situation. I know I'm not the innocent victim here, but I'm also not going to accept all the responsibility for being in this situation either. As I mentioned before, hindsight is 20/20. We fell in love with each other. I didn't know about asexuality back then and always thought that his desire and love for me would overcome his fear of intercourse. I never experienced anything like this before. If I had, I would've turned and walked away right then, knowing how things wouldn't change or that it would always be a struggle. I think by his age at the time we got together, he probably knew his feelings weren't as "normal" (what society thinks is normal, please don't attack me for this wording) as other men, but he never mentioned that he would never want to have sex, even though I'm sure he could tell I knew things were different between us and that I wanted more. And to his defense, maybe he always thought that he would eventually feel different too, but it just never happened. When you're busy working full time, paying bills, raising kids, attending all their activities, etc., 10 years can go by awfully quick. I always held out hope that things would improve someday. I didn't want to give up too soon, and then always wonder if I just would've given it more time, maybe it would've improved.

If he wasn't aware of asexuality either, he might not have realized it was a long-term thing. A lot of asexuals struggle with not feeling normal, so pretend to be and lie even to themselves and think "oh, well, if I fall in love it'll happen" or "If I get married it'll happen" or "If I just wait a little longer it'll happen, everyone else talks about it happening, something has to trigger it, right?" ... etc etc. I had no idea asexuality existed for a long time so I just tried to repress that part of myself, insisting to myself it would change, one day, with the right person, right trigger, whatever. It hasn't and I don't think it ever will, especially since i'm not alone in it. But i'm fine with that now. I did tell my current boyfriend I had issues keeping an interest in sex before we started dating, but I didn't have the terminology to explain it was permanent, so he figured I just needed a "better lay" to get interested. *shrug* Without knowing about it as an orientation, a lot of asexuals by pure ignorance/accident don't explain it to their partners or at least not very well. It's not fun when the realization hits, for either party. :(

I hope you two can work something out. Perhaps if you ask him to discuss it with you some more he'd tell you what he would be comfortable doing? If he knows just how serious it is, he can at least explain his boundaries to you so you can decide what you need to do. Or at least say "I don't know, I need to think about it".

[sexualwife]

TMI Warning....Thought I should update you all...I waited for him to initiate and since he knows how serious this all is with our relationship, he didn't wait too long. Prior to this I could wait months and months and he would never initiate. So I guess that's a good sign that he was willing to try, right? It was verbal like I figured it would be. It was awkward, like I knew it would be. I guess I would describe it as...non-hungry, passionless, dry kisses? He tried to seem aroused and after a few minutes of the "peck" kisses and some hurried touching, he tells me he's going to put a condom on. I'm like, uh, I'm not quite ready yet. I think he thinks that foreplay (which is all we've ever done) and intercourse are not related and not done together as a combined event. I think he thinks it's either one or the other. So a few more minutes of foreplay and then he puts the condom on, and then…He lost his erection, which is similar I think to what others have experienced in this forum. Then he tried to blame me by asking if he waited too long, meaning I should've just been ready for it the moment he said he was frisky without me even getting aroused first. He seemed nervous right from the start, shaky and his breathing was shaky, but he told me he wasn't nervous. I told him it was okay and we'd try again next time.

What's really sad is that years ago I was in love with him, I wanted him sexually, and now I really don't and I don't know if that will ever come back, because I shut it down inside me so long ago, and I’ve come to the realization it will never be the way I want it to be between us. I had to force myself to be with him to see if he could have intercourse with me. The counselor said I needed to be willing, so I made myself. Now I know what asexuals feel like when they feel like they have to have sex with their sexual partners. It was not a good experience and we didn't even have intercourse. I'll wait for him to initiate again someday and we'll try it again. I think it's easier for him to get aroused thinking about it but not doing it. He told me he gets aroused when he touches me, and he gets aroused before he even touches me, but I think that's as far as he's comfortable with. I don't think he's comfortable taking that arousal to the next level and doing something with it.

I’m not looking for any answers here and please no criticism. I’m hurting just as much as he is, and I’m trying to see if this will ever work. I'm in a dark place more days than not anymore. Just wanted to update my story and vent a little. Thanks.

-Sexualwife

[SisterKate]

I haven't read all of the posts on this thread, but a fair few of them. I simply want to say that you seem like a very understanding, empathetic woman. Not everyone would be so open-minded and willing to learn. I am sorry it hurts so much. I truly hope you can come to a decision that will bring (eventual) happiness. It's not fair that you've been pushed into this dark place. It's really not.

[Lady Girl]

I'm sure sorry things aren't going so well right now. It can't be good for either one of you to be feeling this way.

[sexualwife]

TMI warning....I think what's super difficult for me right now is that he is happier than ever. He has always gotten what he needed from our "relationship". I think he thinks that if he makes attempts at intercourse, that I'll just need to accept how things are and will stay. If I can't do this anymore, then I'm the terrible person. I feel like he really doesn't care how miserable I am. He sees it, but obviously doesn't care. He goes about life everyday like there is nothing wrong with our relationship. And I guess, from his point of view, there isn't. I really, truly think he doesn't care, because he doesn't understand what I'm missing since he's never had that need or want. He still feels like if I love him enough, I will stick it out as long as he makes these attempts to try, which I don't even know are true attempts, or are just so I think he's trying. His happiness makes me even more sad. I've tried to explain it in a way he can understand, such as with food (since food is love to him), but he still won't acknowledge that he understands. If I made lettuce salad every night for dinner because that's all I ever wanted to eat for dinner, and told him he had to eat the salad every night and be satisfied with it, and never want to get take out or get food somewhere else, but always has to eat only the lettuce salad every night at home, would he be happy with that forever and ever? No. After a few nights of that, he would be on the phone, ordering restaurant delivery, get take-out on his way home from work, or he'd complain to his mother, who'd bring him home-cooked food to heat up. He told me years ago that if I hadn't been a good cook and liked to cook meals, that would've been a deal breaker for him and he wouldn't have married me, knowing how food is so important to him. I just wish he could understand that some people feel the same way about intimacy and intercourse. It's like he thinks I'm totally out of line for having this need, desire, want, whatever you want to call it.

-Sexualwife

[Einy]

Hi Sexualwife, I just wanted to tell you that I know how you feel, I've been through the same things with my partner, even though not for so long. Have you seriously considered the possibility of separation? Maybe sometimes it's the only option left. When there's no progress in relationship and you've tried your best, but still feeling miserable, is it worth it?