Girlfags/Guydykes, and how it ties in with a Genderqueer identity

[Bye Bye Birdy]

x

[. . .but there are sounds]

I think part of the problem is that terms of have reclaimed to a lesser or greater degree depending on region. In Vancouver, where I live, Queer is quite totally reclaimed. I was warned by a friend in St. Johns, at the opposite end of the country, to be very careful using it over there because to a great degree, its still most often heard immediately before someone throws a punch.

[Great Thief Yatagarasu]

That does bring up a point, though - I've never really seen "fag hag" used in a negative or derogatory way, so it kind of surprises me that people are saying it's a bad term to use. Is it? Also, it it bad to refer to someone using a term that they themselves have used to describe themselves, even if the term is a negative one?

I've never heard anyone in real life use it other than jokingly. If they insisted on it as a serious identity, it might be more controversial, but as is I've never witnessed someone get offended over it, because it's always just in fun. I've also heard girls joke about being a "gay boy in a girl's body," and no one was offended. But again, it wasn't a serious discussion in the least. Maybe I'm just unusually sensitive about these issues? I also hear a lot of girls joking about how they wish they were lesbians. No one bats an eye at this, but it makes me uncomfortable. Not enough to say anything, but I can't help squirming a little inside when I hear it.

I wonder, then, what would have happened should they have said "Actually, I was being serious about that"? The only person I know who's ever said anything like that was being 100% serious, and people were pretty understanding about it (I think the way she worded it, and the people she was talking too, meant that people were like "I get like that too!" in a serious way, or were like "it's good of you to admit that").

I understand why it makes you uncomfortable, I admit. Having thought it over some more, I guess I just view it as being another way of looking at my androgyny, really. Again, it has its pros and cons, but nonetheless it's interesting hearing about it. There's a book coming out on the concept of girlfags (that's more a memoir than anything else, it's written by the same lady who wrote Ethical Slut - it's her recollection of the highs and lows of all these relationships she's had with gay men over the years), and even if I don't read it and think OMG THAT'S ME, I still think it'd be a fascinating read.

[Great Thief Yatagarasu]

I think part of the problem is that terms of have reclaimed to a lesser or greater degree depending on region. In Vancouver, where I live, Queer is quite totally reclaimed. I was warned by a friend in St. Johns, at the opposite end of the country, to be very careful using it over there because to a great degree, its still most often heard immediately before someone throws a punch.

I think, over here in the UK, context is everything. If a person in the queer community is using it to refer to themselves, then no one bats an eyelid, but if someone's using it as an insult then it can definitely be insulting. Time and place, methinks.

[Bye Bye Birdy]

x

[Great Thief Yatagarasu]

That does bring up a point, though - I've never really seen "fag hag" used in a negative or derogatory way, so it kind of surprises me that people are saying it's a bad term to use. Is it? Also, it it bad to refer to someone using a term that they themselves have used to describe themselves, even if the term is a negative one?

I've never heard anyone in real life use it other than jokingly. If they insisted on it as a serious identity, it might be more controversial, but as is I've never witnessed someone get offended over it, because it's always just in fun. I've also heard girls joke about being a "gay boy in a girl's body," and no one was offended. But again, it wasn't a serious discussion in the least. Maybe I'm just unusually sensitive about these issues? I also hear a lot of girls joking about how they wish they were lesbians. No one bats an eye at this, but it makes me uncomfortable. Not enough to say anything, but I can't help squirming a little inside when I hear it.

I wonder, then, what would have happened should they have said "Actually, I was being serious about that"?

I don't know, but I'm curious too. But probably...not much. Again, I honestly don't think people would care too much. Unless someone brought it up ALL the time, or totally insisted that they be seen as a gay guy (without being trans), I can't imagine people being really upset. Maybe some guys would feel offended if they saw it as an appropriation of their identity, or if they thought some girls were only hanging out with because they were gay, and weren't being valued as individual people. Unlikely to happen, unless the person was obnoxiously insistent about it. And surprisingly, most college students aren't that immature. At some point I think most of them realized you just have to be who you are through your daily life, not just talk about it. That's why I dislike labels; you can just be a person, and announcing labels to the world usually strikes me as juvenile. However, I admit there's a time and place for discussions of personal identity, and labels have the potential to be useful then.

The thing with labels, I think, is that they mean that there are other people like you out there who have the same feelings as you, you know? It's a problem that comes up a lot with demisexuality, among the trolls who thing it's describing "the default" orientation - if it's so "normal", and it isn't going to affect your life that much, why tell anyone? ANY label at all can be treated like this, though, not just the "odd" ones - why should people call themselves gay at all? It's just a label! Labels shouldn't be yelled from the rooftops, you're right, but telling your friends because you feel they deserve to know shouldn't be looked down on as being juvenile.

It probably sounds like I go on about it all the time, but I haven't breathed a word about my feelings on my gender to anyone in my normal life - I just feel that the only bits that matter are the bits they can already see, you know? I'm pretty much limiting who I tell to friends who I know would be acceptable of LGBT issues and possible romantic partners - that's it (and this includes my demisexuality).

[Bye Bye Birdy]

x

[AthenaCain]

I find this discussion interesting.

I read yaoi and slash, too and think that the common ground between gay men and hetero women simply is the sexual interest in men; e.g. when a gay man is attracted to another man, I can identify with the attraction he feels, because I feel it, too. But I don't think that this understanding makes me "a gay man in a woman's body", but a hetero woman.

Nevertheless, I find it interesting to identify with the idea of being a man as a kind of experimenting with genderroles, but only when reading/writing slash.

And I think that crossdessing as a man and using a strap- on in order to be "male" is a roleplay-kink, but no sexual identity, like being into S/M-sex is no sexual identity. Doing this with women, wouldn't be interesting for me, because I'm not attracted to women, but I would like it as a way to explore the more tomboyish/dominate side in me, but still, this won't make me want to have my body changed or to live as a man, so it's not transsexual, to me.