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ithaca

Secondary Romantic Attraction

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ithaca

Hi, it's always me with my technical questions.

I heard two different definitions of "secondary romantic attraction".

One being the romantic-side of what demisexuals experience as sexual attraction, meaning that who experiences secondary romantic attraction only does so after having a previous strong bond with that/those person/people. It would mean that it's what demiromantics experience.

The second definition I heard is strictly connected to aromantics instead, and it says something like "being open to romantic relationships (if it happens) even if not experiencing primary romantic attraction".

Can someone help me here? Is there anyone who knows which definition is more accurate?

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Nomad in Stasis

Well, I sort of cheated here and just went based off of the AVEN Wiki definition of Secondary Sexual Attraction.

Primary and Secondary Sexual Attraction

"Secondary sexual desire is the desire to engage in sexual activity solely for the sake of the happiness of the other person involved, or for another ulterior motive such as the conception of children."

Demisexuality

This link says that, " In this model, primary sexual attraction is based on outward qualities such as a person's looks, clothes, or personality while secondary sexual attraction is attraction stemming from a connection, usually romantic, or from status or how closely the person is in relationship to the other."

It also says, "Though factors such as looks and personality do not affect primary sexual attraction for demisexuals (since demisexuals do not experience primary sexual attraction), such factors may affect romantic attraction, as with any other orientation."

And of course, Demisexual isn't a "concrete" term, but I would hazard this...

I would say that Secondary Romantic Attraction is an attraction based upon built up feelings for another based on a current relationship status, but of course, it being called seconday would mean that the romantic feelings are assumed by an attraction of something so perhaps it is an attraction of how someone acts or what their personality is?

We should make some options then have a vote for what others think the definition should be, then we could put it up on AVEN Wiki.

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ithaca

I think that you mentioned secondary sexual desire, but i'm not sure it's the same of secondary sexual attraction.

secondary sexual desire: the desire to engage in sexual activity solely for the sake of the happiness of the other person involved, or for another ulterior motive such as the conception of children.

secondary sexual attraction: attraction stemming from a connection, usually romantic, or from status or how closely the person is in relationship to the other.

Maybe secondary romantic attraction is like for demiromantic, they can romantically attracted after a strong friendship or something?

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Nomad in Stasis

Maybe secondary romantic attraction is like for demiromantic, they can romantically attracted after a strong friendship or something?

Perhaps. It would make the most sense in my opinion. I could not find anything else about it.

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A bit

I think that you mentioned secondary sexual desire, but i'm not sure it's the same of secondary sexual attraction.

secondary sexual desire: the desire to engage in sexual activity solely for the sake of the happiness of the other person involved, or for another ulterior motive such as the conception of children.

secondary sexual attraction: attraction stemming from a connection, usually romantic, or from status or how closely the person is in relationship to the other.

Maybe secondary romantic attraction is like for demiromantic, they can romantically attracted after a strong friendship or something?

And secondary romantic desire could be for aromantics, who are in the similar example of the secondary sexual desire, maybe?

I think the secondary romantic attraction term as you just described it really fits the whole friendship-to-other thing that I have found to happen, though it doesn't always have to strictly strong friendship. (I'm demiromantic.) But I'm not sure if it will work for everyone.

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ithaca

I had never thought of Romantic Desire :blink: silly me :blink:

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Prospero
secondary sexual attraction is attraction stemming from a connection, usually romantic, or from status or how closely the person is in relationship to the other.

Uh... This makes absolutely no sense to me! Can someone explain? I'm having difficulties working out what "secondary romantic attraction" amounts to as well.

I would say that Secondary Romantic Attraction is an attraction based upon built up feelings for another based on a current relationship status

Does there have to be primary romantic attraction to have secondary romantic attraction? Going by "based on a current relationship status" this definition assumes that there has to be a romantic relationship ongoing for secondary romantic attraction to occur. Is that the definite case?

Really confused here. Thanks.

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ithaca
secondary sexual attraction is attraction stemming from a connection, usually romantic, or from status or how closely the person is in relationship to the other.

Uh... This makes absolutely no sense to me! Can someone explain? I'm having difficulties working out what "secondary romantic attraction" amounts to as well.

Okies, secondary sexual attraction is different from the primary. Some people experience both, demisexuals experience only the secondary one. Secondary sexual attraction means that you don't feel sexually attracted to someone until you have a strong emotional connection (but it doesn't have to be romantic). Is it more clear?

I would say that Secondary Romantic Attraction is an attraction based upon built up feelings for another based on a current relationship status

Does there have to be primary romantic attraction to have secondary romantic attraction? Going by "based on a current relationship status" this definition assumes that there has to be a romantic relationship ongoing for secondary romantic attraction to occur. Is that the definite case?

Really confused here. Thanks.

No, some people only experience secondary romantic attraction, which I'm kinda trying to understand. I assume that, differently from the primary, where you meet someone, date them and start to think and feel romantically for them, who experiences the secondary only feels romantically for people they already know well and feel strong for, like very good friends. They may have a connection on an intellectual level or emotional but not romantic.

I think. But I was trying to check....

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Prospero

No, some people only experience secondary romantic attraction, which I'm kinda trying to understand. I assume that, differently from the primary, where you meet someone, date them and start to think and feel romantically for them, who experiences the secondary only feels romantically for people they already know well and feel strong for, like very good friends. They may have a connection on an intellectual level or emotional but not romantic.

I think. But I was trying to check....

Okay, so...

Primary: Platonic/Romantic/Sexual

Secondary: Romantic/Sexual

And you can mix and match amongst these?

So Primary Platonic and Secondary Sexual = demisexual; Primary Sexual and Secondary Sexual = sexual; etc.?

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Redbeard

Isn't all that primary/secondary attraction nonsense from the largely abandoned "Rabger's Model", that even Rabger has disowned? I don't think I've ever seen anyone say that the whole primary/secondary thing makes any sense or is actually useful in describing how they feel. What I have seen is a lot of people who are always confused about how it works or upset that it lessens they attraction that they feel by calling it "Secondary", even though it's identical in every way to "Primary" attraction, except for timing.

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maven

hmm. Usually I've heard secondary romantic attraction defined as your first definition, the one demiromantics use. But if you look at the demiromantic threads, I'm not sure they use the term "secondary romantic attraction," they just describe it as developing romantic feelings for someone after knowing them for a long time. About a year ago, when I first joined AVEN, there was a lot of discussion about primary vs. secondary attraction and whether or not it applied to romantic attraction (or existed the way we define it, much like sexual attraction has been put to debate lately) - you can see a bit of the debate here.

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Prospero

Isn't all that primary/secondary attraction nonsense from the largely abandoned "Rabger's Model", that even Rabger has disowned? I don't think I've ever seen anyone say that the whole primary/secondary thing makes any sense or is actually useful in describing how they feel. What I have seen is a lot of people who are always confused about how it works or upset that it lessens they attraction that they feel by calling it "Secondary", even though it's identical in every way to "Primary" attraction, except for timing.

Hm, I agree. This primary/secondary attraction implies there are two definite stages in a relationship, when in reality it's quite difficult to discern the shift.

The shift isn't a definite, constant time for everyone, either.

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Siggy

Can someone help me here? Is there anyone who knows which definition is more accurate?

Which definition is more accurate as in which definition is more true to the way that people actually use the term? I've never seen "secondary romantic attraction" used, so my guess is that its use is rare and the definition is up for grabs. I mean, if you really want to define the term. Before you know it, this thread will shoot to the top of google searches for "secondary romantic attraction", and become the defining thread.

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5_♦♣

Primary/Secondary romantic has zilch to do with stages of a relationship. Rather, primary romantic attraction is seeing someone and immediately thinking 'I'd like to be in a romantic relationship with that person', fantasizing about them romantically. Basically, love at first sight. Secondary romantic attraction is when those romantic thoughts/fantasies occur after forming a close emotional bond with that person.

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ithaca

Primary/Secondary romantic has zilch to do with stages of a relationship. Rather, primary romantic attraction is seeing someone and immediately thinking 'I'd like to be in a romantic relationship with that person', fantasizing about them romantically. Basically, love at first sight. Secondary romantic attraction is when those romantic thoughts/fantasies occur after forming a close emotional bond with that person.

I'm wondering who, besides teens with popstars, fantasize romantically on a stranger (no offence intended if you, reader, do).

Anyway, where did you find this definition, AoC?

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Nameless123

I'm wondering who, besides teens with popstars, fantasize romantically on a stranger (no offence intended if you, reader, do).

People who have issues with forming actual romantic relationships in reality, or are even incapable of talking to someone that they're interested in and so transfer their crush into a fantasy world, for example. Is that what you mean?

It's maybe a bit like when people have sexual fantasies about someone but you do it about romance, not sex.

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ithaca

I'm wondering who, besides teens with popstars, fantasize romantically on a stranger (no offence intended if you, reader, do).

People who have issues with forming actual romantic relationships in reality, or are even incapable of talking to someone that they're interested in and so transfer their crush into a fantasy world, for example. Is that what you mean?

It's maybe a bit like when people have sexual fantasies about someone but you do it about romance, not sex.

Huh. If this is it, is this the more common kind? Because if it is, I'm a damn straight aromantic. If it's not, I'd say this shouldn't be primary romantic attraction. It would be too much confusing.

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Nameless123

I'm wondering who, besides teens with popstars, fantasize romantically on a stranger (no offence intended if you, reader, do).

People who have issues with forming actual romantic relationships in reality, or are even incapable of talking to someone that they're interested in and so transfer their crush into a fantasy world, for example. Is that what you mean?

It's maybe a bit like when people have sexual fantasies about someone but you do it about romance, not sex.

Huh. If this is it, is this the more common kind? Because if it is, I'm a damn straight aromantic. If it's not, I'd say this shouldn't be primary romantic attraction. It would be too much confusing.

No no, of course this is not the common kind! At least I don't think so. I'd by no means call this primary romantic attraction. Whatever it is, it is a thing with people who can't/don't want to connect romantically with someone in reality but like to fantasise about it nevertheless. Your question just made me think of it, I didn't actually want to describe what primary romantic attraction could be.

But while I'm at it, the way AceofClubs phrased it: Are there people who immediately think that they want to be in a romantic relationship with someone upon seeing them for the first time? I always think this whole love at first sight thing is a myth...

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Prospero

I'm wondering who, besides teens with popstars, fantasize romantically on a stranger (no offence intended if you, reader, do).

People who have issues with forming actual romantic relationships in reality, or are even incapable of talking to someone that they're interested in and so transfer their crush into a fantasy world, for example. Is that what you mean?

It's maybe a bit like when people have sexual fantasies about someone but you do it about romance, not sex.

Huh. If this is it, is this the more common kind? Because if it is, I'm a damn straight aromantic. If it's not, I'd say this shouldn't be primary romantic attraction. It would be too much confusing.

No no, of course this is not the common kind! At least I don't think so. I'd by no means call this primary romantic attraction. Whatever it is, it is a thing with people who can't/don't want to connect romantically with someone in reality but like to fantasise about it nevertheless. Your question just made me think of it, I didn't actually want to describe what primary romantic attraction could be.

But while I'm at it, the way AceofClubs phrased it: Are there people who immediately think that they want to be in a romantic relationship with someone upon seeing them for the first time? I always think this whole love at first sight thing is a myth...

Once I had a fairly immediate reaction, but that was only after talking to someone a little bit. Does that still count as demiromanticism? So this primary romantic attraction is purely judgement for romantic relationships on the basis of physical appearance, then. Is that, well, a little bit shallow?

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Nameless123

So this primary romantic attraction is purely judgement for romantic relationships on the basis of physical appearance, then. Is that, well, a little bit shallow?

I probably wouldn't call any immediate thing romantic attraction at all, but rather a "I want to get to know you better" reaction. Otherwise it would be, as you said, like wanting to be in a relationship with someone because they look nice.

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Prospero

So this primary romantic attraction is purely judgement for romantic relationships on the basis of physical appearance, then. Is that, well, a little bit shallow?

I probably wouldn't call any immediate thing romantic attraction at all, but rather a "I want to get to know you better" reaction. Otherwise it would be, as you said, like wanting to be in a relationship with someone because they look nice.

But doesn't that reaction apply to nearly everyone? I definitely get that with most people who look interesting, regardless of... their gender, age, whatever. Just because they look like they would be cool people to talk to. :S

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Nameless123

So this primary romantic attraction is purely judgement for romantic relationships on the basis of physical appearance, then. Is that, well, a little bit shallow?

I probably wouldn't call any immediate thing romantic attraction at all, but rather a "I want to get to know you better" reaction. Otherwise it would be, as you said, like wanting to be in a relationship with someone because they look nice.

But doesn't that reaction apply to nearly everyone? I definitely get that with most people who look interesting, regardless of... their gender, age, whatever. Just because they look like they would be cool people to talk to. :S

Exactly. That's why I wouldn't say it has anything to do with romantic attraction at all.

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5_♦♣

Primary/Secondary romantic has zilch to do with stages of a relationship. Rather, primary romantic attraction is seeing someone and immediately thinking 'I'd like to be in a romantic relationship with that person', fantasizing about them romantically. Basically, love at first sight. Secondary romantic attraction is when those romantic thoughts/fantasies occur after forming a close emotional bond with that person.

I'm wondering who, besides teens with popstars, fantasize romantically on a stranger (no offence intended if you, reader, do).

Anyway, where did you find this definition, AoC?

Well actually, yes I do. (Though, for me, the fantasies remain just that).

That was always the way I understood primary romantic attraction; I just worded it the way I did to show that primary & secondary romantic attraction don't really have to do with stages of a relationship.

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A bit

I believe the primary romantic attraction would be more along the lines of, "We're not friends, but I'd date you anyway, because I'm already romantically attracted to you." But I don't know how to slip it into a definition the way that makes sense.

I say this because the only thing I could possibly conceive is building a friendship in a similar situation, and I think of it sort of in terms of a pre-friend crush. Curiosity and interest, but only in friendship. I imagine other people would follow the same lines, only skipping any emotional bonding that seems essential to me.

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Prospero

I believe the primary romantic attraction would be more along the lines of, "We're not friends, but I'd date you anyway, because I'm already romantically attracted to you." But I don't know how to slip it into a definition the way that makes sense.

I say this because the only thing I could possibly conceive is building a friendship in a similar situation, and I think of it sort of in terms of a pre-friend crush. Curiosity and interest, but only in friendship. I imagine other people would follow the same lines, only skipping any emotional bonding that seems essential to me.

Is this a "love at first sight" reaction? I think I understand...

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A bit

I believe the primary romantic attraction would be more along the lines of, "We're not friends, but I'd date you anyway, because I'm already romantically attracted to you." But I don't know how to slip it into a definition the way that makes sense.

I say this because the only thing I could possibly conceive is building a friendship in a similar situation, and I think of it sort of in terms of a pre-friend crush. Curiosity and interest, but only in friendship. I imagine other people would follow the same lines, only skipping any emotional bonding that seems essential to me.

Is this a "love at first sight" reaction? I think I understand...

No, more like "I'm interested at first sight."

I don't think you necessarily have to fall in love at first sight to experience primary romantic attraction.

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Aspiecat

My $0.02.

I fell in love at the age of 43.

(Great intro, Aspie...)

I fell in love because for the first time in my life I felt a connection with someone unlike anything I have every felt before. It took him three days, me about a week, but we fell in love with each other on an intellectual and emotional level. Aesthetically, there was little involved, as we met via AVEN and therefore couldn't see each other or hear each other, even though we swapped photos. Yet of all the people I had met in my 43 years, in all the countries I had visited, I finally found someone with whom I felt I could feel romantically towards, because we had this immediate 'connection'.

The romantic feelings didn't come in straight away, which is interesting, as I recall feeling myself fall in love with this wonderful person while not envisaging romance or sex - at all. It wasn't until a couple of weeks later that romantic feelings began to creep in, and even - dare I say it - sexual feelings, which I had never felt in my life.

Now as it turns out, he has figured he is not so much asexual as asocial, so doesn't come into AVEN anymore. He has no desire to be with people, but desires to be with me. He could live his life without sex quite easily but only because he has no need to be with anyone. Yet, on meeting me, he realised that he wanted to be with me for the rest of his life. And although I am not asocial - my Asperger's means I simply find it difficult to be around people...not that I don't want companionship and friendship - my demi state of asexuality means if I hadn't met him, I would myself go through life quite content with never having anyone with me ever again, just my child and my friends (cat too hehe).

We crave each other's company like a serious drug and hate that we live halfway around the world to each other. I blush when he flatters me and he wants to spend time away from his computer work to chat with me (he cannot often chat because of a disability, but that's a different story). We even talk about finding the first person with whom we might even enjoy a physical intimacy, although that is optional. For sure, I cannot wait to meet him in person when I fly out to see him this November, and feel his arms around me; this is odd in itself as the thought of anyone but my child touching me in any way has always made me feel creeped out...nauseated, even.

So there you go. I have definitely been experiencing "secondary romantic attraction" (and perhaps even "secondary sexual attraction" as I rather fancy him hehe), because I fell in love with him on an intellectual and emotional level BEFORE romantic feelings came into it. It's hard to explain to the two RL friends who know about him (they are both highly sexual people), and I find it difficult to come to grips with it all myself.

But all I know is that we have found each other and we don't want to let each other go.

Aspie

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Nomad in Stasis

My $0.02.

I fell in love at the age of 43.

(Great intro, Aspie...)

I fell in love because for the first time in my life I felt a connection with someone unlike anything I have every felt before. It took him three days, me about a week, but we fell in love with each other on an intellectual and emotional level. Aesthetically, there was little involved, as we met via AVEN and therefore couldn't see each other or hear each other, even though we swapped photos. Yet of all the people I had met in my 43 years, in all the countries I had visited, I finally found someone with whom I felt I could feel romantically towards, because we had this immediate 'connection'.

The romantic feelings didn't come in straight away, which is interesting, as I recall feeling myself fall in love with this wonderful person while not envisaging romance or sex - at all. It wasn't until a couple of weeks later that romantic feelings began to creep in, and even - dare I say it - sexual feelings, which I had never felt in my life.

Now as it turns out, he has figured he is not so much asexual as asocial, so doesn't come into AVEN anymore. He has no desire to be with people, but desires to be with me. He could live his life without sex quite easily but only because he has no need to be with anyone. Yet, on meeting me, he realised that he wanted to be with me for the rest of his life. And although I am not asocial - my Asperger's means I simply find it difficult to be around people...not that I don't want companionship and friendship - my demi state of asexuality means if I hadn't met him, I would myself go through life quite content with never having anyone with me ever again, just my child and my friends (cat too hehe).

We crave each other's company like a serious drug and hate that we live halfway around the world to each other. I blush when he flatters me and he wants to spend time away from his computer work to chat with me (he cannot often chat because of a disability, but that's a different story). We even talk about finding the first person with whom we might even enjoy a physical intimacy, although that is optional. For sure, I cannot wait to meet him in person when I fly out to see him this November, and feel his arms around me; this is odd in itself as the thought of anyone but my child touching me in any way has always made me feel creeped out...nauseated, even.

So there you go. I have definitely been experiencing "secondary romantic attraction" (and perhaps even "secondary sexual attraction" as I rather fancy him hehe), because I fell in love with him on an intellectual and emotional level BEFORE romantic feelings came into it. It's hard to explain to the two RL friends who know about him (they are both highly sexual people), and I find it difficult to come to grips with it all myself.

But all I know is that we have found each other and we don't want to let each other go.

Aspie

**Applauds** Way to go!

See that readers? That **Points up** is awesomeness.

Anywho, I would just say that secondary romantic attraction is whatever you want it to be. I do agree with Aspie in that it is involved with online meeting.

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Dr_Holmes

aspie your story is so lovely!! I hope you have an amazing time in November! :wub:

haha well i'm sort of jumping into a discussion that's already been progressing for a while... :blush: but i just suddenly thought that we could totally try to define this using Friends!! :lol:

if we take Monica and Chandler right,

they had known each other since they were in college and they had been friends for a long time.

so when they finally actually fall in love, it had taken all of those years of knowing each other and becoming close platonically, and then a couple of months of secretly dating for romantic feelings to manifest. This would be secondary romantic attraction i think because it developed out of other kinds of attraction.

I think Chandler has primary sexual attraction to Monica as we can tell from the episode when they're at the beach and Chandler is trying to get Monica to agree to circumstances under which she would sleep with him (and she says she wouldn't even if he was the last man on earth :P), so even though he's not romantically interested in her, he's sexually interested in her because she's a good looking female person 8)

Monica on the other hand, has secondary sexual attraction to Chandler because she originally only sleeps with him because she's drunk, not because she's particularly attracted to him, and continues to sleep with him because... it's ... a good... experience.... :rolleyes: haha... and it isn't until a few weeks later that she stops thinking of him as dweeby chandler that she happens to be sleeping with, but actually someone who she's attracted to :)

My example from friends of primary romantic attraction AND primary sexual attraction would be Mike and Phoebe who meet and are very into each other in both of these ways right from their first conversation ^_^

haha

um

so i hope this adds something to the discussion :D

i would add just that maybe there could be primary and secondary of all types of attraction (platonic, aesthetic, romantic and sexual)

like for instance someone can be just instantly recognisable as really good looking (i believe) but in other cases people can seem more good looking to you as you know more about them and think they have a nice personality (which would be secondary aesthetic attraction...? :huh: )

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@ce

I have always used Secondary Romantic Attraction in the aromantic sense. 0.o I just fits who I am as a person so I use it in that sense, I think the term makes more sense in the demisexual context

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