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Is It a Sin?


DarkPolarBear

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DarkPolarBear

I am, as I beleive, asexual-homoromantic or biromantic. Absolutely nobody in my life knows this...

And I am in love with my best friend. I know I am in love with her. I treat her like a princess, respect her, take her on trips, buy her gifts for every major holiday, and her birthday.

But she insists on dating these guys...the kind that makes you want to kick them in the jewels. I just feel llike they don't treat her right. And they always try to go fast with her. They don't take her on dates, and yet a week after they start "dating" they try to kiss her.

Meanwhile, I am sitting on the sidelines watching it all go down, planning the next time I can spend time with her. The closest I have gotten to admitting my feelings is hugging her and then looking in her eyes. But she just gives me a blank and confused look as I am trying desperately to give her a hint through my expression and actions.

And when she makes physical contact with them, just touching thier arm or holding hands makes me want break the boy's fingers. And when they kiss in front of me, it makes the pit of my stomach burn.

Spritually, of course. I just want her to be with me emotionally and spiritually, I just want to hug her and look in her eyes and see she loves me as well.

But I am very religious, and I feel like my desire to be with another woman in a platonic relationship is wrong...and I don't ask anyone in my church...I just can't.

Is it wrong? Is this a sin?

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I usually don't reply to a question with another question, but I'm gonna do it this time.

And I am in love with my best friend. I know I am in love with her.

Is it wrong? Is this a sin?

Is love a sin? :)

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DarkPolarBear

I usually don't reply to a question with another question, but I'm gonna do it this time.

And I am in love with my best friend. I know I am in love with her.

Is it wrong? Is this a sin?

Is love a sin? :)

Hehe, good point.

No I guess it isn't, but it worries me as bordering on homo-whatever, which I am always told is sin...

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The Great WTF

You just reminded me why I hate organized religion. I'll never believe that loving someone is a sin. The very idea of an apparently loving and forgiving god damning his creation just for having the audacity to act on the love he created them with makes me sick.

Apologies for the tirade, it's a bit of a pet peeve of mine. As I've said, I don't believe love is a sin no matter who it is you've fallen in love with.

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You may want to look up the concept of romantic friendship and see if it fits what you describe. Same-sex romantic friendships were fairly common a while and certainly were not considered a sin, so I don't see why it would be sinful now.

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I would stop worrying about it, as it sounds like your friend is pretty straight anyway.

But, if you persist, I assure you that any religion can be spun any way to make anything okay or not okay. Happens all the time. You could say "Is love a sin?" just as easily as you could say "Is it okay to go against what god's design intended?"

Have fun!

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DarkPolarBear

I would stop worrying about it, as it sounds like your friend is pretty straight anyway.

But, if you persist, I assure you that any religion can be spun any way to make anything okay or not okay. Happens all the time.

Have fun!

Yeah, but at the same time she seems a lot more willing to spend more time with me and more lengthy contact than with any of the boys she dated, whom she just usually holds hands or quickly kisses. I know that she is probably okay with warming up to the idea...but I thank everyone for helping my shaky beliefs, and I feel a bit better.

Thanks to everyone!

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I would stop worrying about it, as it sounds like your friend is pretty straight anyway.

But, if you persist, I assure you that any religion can be spun any way to make anything okay or not okay. Happens all the time.

Have fun!

Yeah, but at the same time she seems a lot more willing to spend more time with me and more lengthy contact than with any of the boys she dated, whom she just usually holds hands or quickly kisses. I know that she is probably okay with warming up to the idea...but I thank everyone for helping my shaky beliefs, and I feel a bit better.

Thanks to everyone!

Friends spend time with friends. Don't be quick to delude yourself into confirmation bias. It's very easy to see what you want to see in the world and in others.

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foxwithwings13

Well.. Im going to answer this question assuming your a christian. So sorry ahead of time if i'm wrong :blush:

No, i'm almost positive being in love with the same gender isnt a sin. If you look at the relationship in the bible of David and Jonathan and Ruth and Naomi, theyre relationship seems pretty romantic to me! Im almost certain they at least shared a romantic friendship.

The only thing prohibited in the bible is sex with the same gender (and even thats debated because it's likely all the verses that speak against homosexuality is speaking in the context of rape, pedestry, or weirdo bizarre temple prostitution.

So as far as love itself being a sin, i wouldn't worry about it :)

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Well.. Im going to answer this question assuming your a christian. So sorry ahead of time if i'm wrong :blush:

No, i'm almost positive being in love with the same gender isnt a sin. If you look at the relationship in the bible of David and Jonathan and Ruth and Naomi, theyre relationship seems pretty romantic to me! Im almost certain they at least shared a romantic friendship.

The only thing prohibited in the bible is sex with the same gender (and even thats debated because it's likely all the verses that speak against homosexuality is speaking in the context of rape, pedestry, or weirdo bizarre temple prostitution.

So as far as love itself being a sin, i wouldn't worry about it :)

And there's one of my examples. I don't think AVEN permits people who would advance the other end of the spectrum, sadly, so I'll have to do with one spin.

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The Great WTF

I agree with LonleyWind. I'm aromantic and have had friends fall in love with me in the past that I was completely clueless about, but they apparently saw me as reciprocating their feelings. It wasn't pretty.

Before you start getting your hopes up, talk to her. If you're not willing to divulge your feelings yet, at least try to get her opinion on homosexuality and find out if she'd ever consider a lesbian relationship.

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ignoranceisn'tbliss

You just reminded me why I hate organized religion.

Oh yes :rolleyes:

This part may be a bit offensive, so I'll put it in a spoiler

Why would you ever choose a belief that you haven't decided to believe in? Let me ask you this, do you believe your holy book (sorry, but I'm going to make the assumption that you are Christian and this is the Bible, as that's where I've heard the most anti-homo attitudes coming from) is, in its entirety, the ideology of your God? If you do, I'll have to ask if you've read the Bible completely, from one end to the other. The contradictions are everywhere. And yet people have the audacity to quote a phrase or two as if the Bible doesn't say the exact opposite at all. So that's completely out as any form of evidence or reasoning. Now, on to the next thing.

Sorry, kinda needed to rant that out.

So why do you feel it is wrong? Have you been told this by a churchgoer? Has your church told you this? Have you assumed this is your church's belief because of attitudes of churches on the news? The point is, have you ever thought of why God should want to keep them separate? Have you decided on your own what you think God wants? Why should you believe someone without doing your own research? Why would God, whom is supposedly accepting and loving of everyone, say that two people in love don't deserve the rights of two other people in love because they, his own creations, are loving "wrong?"

I guess the end point is, think about what you think God is supposed to be and then decide if you think somethings right. And church is not a good reason to believe something, because churches of the same religion are often crossed over certain points.

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DarkPolarBear

You all make very good points. I am going to talk to her, and yes, I am a christian. It's just what my father has told me (and he has read the bible) and he would be ashamed. I figured justification through the church would turn his opinion. I am going to use all of this advice. Thank you!

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glitchunter

I wouldn't say the love is a sin. God is all about love. That uncontrollable, fist-clenching jealousy, though... that's falling a little closer to the sinnier side of things.

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The Great WTF

You all make very good points. I am going to talk to her, and yes, I am a christian. It's just what my father has told me (and he has read the bible) and he would be ashamed. I figured justification through the church would turn his opinion. I am going to use all of this advice. Thank you!

Reading the Bible and comprehending are two very, very different things. There's also the (many) different translations of the Bible to contend with and, when you actually sit down and pay attention, you'll realize that there are many "sins" in the Bible that are completely overlooked nowadays, including the Bible ordering the stoning adulterers and not conversing with women on their period. For some reason, they just won't let go of the gay thing, though.

I firmly believe that those passages that speak against homosexuality in the Bible were put there in order to encourage procreation. At the time they were written, the population was a lot lower, families needed to be continued, and having children was almost a necessity. THAT is why homosexuality was condemned, not because it is a "sin".

There's a documentary called For The Bible Tells Me So that I found very useful when I was helping a gay friend come out to his Christian parents. It's a bit of a low blow (it deals with a mother whose lesbian daughter committed suicide partially because of her refusing to accept her child), but I think it's very much worth watching.

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ignoranceisn'tbliss

There's a documentary called For The Bible Tells Me So that I found very useful when I was helping a gay friend come out to his Christian parents. It's a bit of a low blow (it deals with a mother whose lesbian daughter committed suicide partially because of her refusing to accept her child), but I think it's very much worth watching.

Ah, I watched that a few weeks ago. I wouldn't say that's a low blow though, since it is a real situation and such things do occur now and then. I'd say it's more of a strong blow in a not so low place. But yes, I would recommend watching it. It does show a few different angles of what some homosexual people have to deal with from very rigid beliefs of their parents. It also deals with interpretation of the Bible in the context of the time period (believe it or not, a lot changes in society and language over thousands of years :P ).

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The Great WTF

There's a documentary called For The Bible Tells Me So that I found very useful when I was helping a gay friend come out to his Christian parents. It's a bit of a low blow (it deals with a mother whose lesbian daughter committed suicide partially because of her refusing to accept her child), but I think it's very much worth watching.

Ah, I watched that a few weeks ago. I wouldn't say that's a low blow though, since it is a real situation and such things do occur now and then. I'd say it's more of a strong blow in a not so low place. But yes, I would recommend watching it. It does show a few different angles of what some homosexual people have to deal with from very rigid beliefs of their parents. It also deals with interpretation of the Bible in the context of the time period (believe it or not, a lot changes in society and language over thousands of years :P ).

I actually meant it's a low blow to parents in the sense that most parents watching it would probably have a very strong reaction to the mother whose daughter killed herself. I've seen mothers brought to tears by it and, to me, that constitutes a low blow. *shrugs*

I couldn't remember which documentary (I've watched a lot of them) had the historical context mentions, so thank you for adding that.

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ignoranceisn'tbliss

I actually meant it's a low blow to parents in the sense that most parents watching it would probably have a very strong reaction to the mother whose daughter killed herself. I've seen mothers brought to tears by it and, to me, that constitutes a low blow. *shrugs*

I couldn't remember which documentary (I've watched a lot of them) had the historical context mentions, so thank you for adding that.

Ah, I see. To be honest, I almost cried too (I get pretty emotional).

And you're welcome :P

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Love? No, not a sin.

Jealousy? Can be, yeah, if you don't keep it in check.

My advice is to figure out whether or not this is even capable of working out before you get yourself all bent out of shape over it. She just simply might not see you the same way you do with her, in which case there's no real point agonizing over the What Could Have Beens.

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DarkPolarBear,

There's not much I can say that hasn't already been said. But I think we come from similar backgrounds. :) My upbringing taught me that being gay was a sin, though I was never taught that it's acceptable to condemn those whose practices are in conflict with my own belief system.

Anyway. As others have pointed out, there are a host of laws within the Bible that we don't abide by today. Theology plays a huge role in determining why most Christians don't abide by the old laws in the Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament. Most will point to the part where Paul states that gentiles do not have to obey Jewish law (I think it's in Galatians...), so that's why gentile believers don't care too much about Numbers, Deuteronomy, or Leviticus. You'd think that they'd also disregard what the OT says about homosexuality, but Paul also writes about men sleeping with men as a sign that an entire culture has turned away from G-d (that's Romans 1). So, if we're going on a plain reading of the Bible, it would seem that homosexuality is at least an "unnatural" act. Once again, this depends on your theology and the approach you use to interpret Scripture.

Different frameworks have come into vogue throughout the centuries for various reasons--not all of them devout. People choose to highlight certain passages and give them weight instead of others. Sometimes these approaches don't go well together. Think of Martin Luther. There was a reason that his ninety-five theses were such a friggin' big deal.

Right now, I feel that we're in a time when it's popular among the more fundamental Christian groups to emphasize Scripture that makes them stand out against the mainstream norm (which they would categorize as "liberal"). They feel that their faith is being attacked, or that they're being pressured to dilute their faith--and to a degree this is true. Their reaction is to hold on to tenants of their faith all the more strongly, thus promoting group solidarity and in effect flipping the bird at society.

As someone already pointed out, there are several examples of close same-sex friendships within the Bible (David and Jonathan, Naomi and Ruth, Elijah and Elisha, and then Daniel, Shadrach, Mishach, and Abednego). There's also Paul and Timothy, Paul and Barnabas, and of course there's Jesus and John (and Jesus and all of the 12 apostles, really). I personally don't see romance in the OT examples, but the OT can be sparse on the details. John identifies himself as the "one who Jesus loved" in his gospel. I just see this as a really close friendship (the philos or agape kind of love), but I encourage you to go through this gospel and the other books by John and figure out what you think. I don't think this is twisting the Bible to fit your needs ... I think it's more looking for role-models within your own faith to help you figure out how to handle your situation.

Anyway ... concerning your specific situation. I don't think you're in sin. Even back when I was convinced that same-sex attraction was wrong, I don't think I would have thought you're in sin. As has been said, the Bible only condemns same-sex sexual relations, not love. Romance really isn't even talked about, unless you count the Song of Solomon. ;)

Your friend might consider you her "safe place" from all these crazy guys she dates. I'd feel her out about what her thoughts are on same-sex relationships (platonic or not) before you tell her about the intensity of you feelings for her. Is she in your church? How indoctrinated is she? Those things are all going to come into play if you decide to come out to her/confess your feelings.

Okay. I've rambled long enough. This is a loooong post! I get that way when I'm talking about the Bible/faith. Good luck figuring this stuff out. I'm still confused about a lot of things and am trying to figure it, too. If you ever want to shoot me a PM and wrestle through Bible issues, feel free. :)

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DarkPolarBear

Thank you very much for you advice. My friend is atheist (I have been changing her opinion slowly) and she may be a bit more open to these ideas. I think I am going to try to read the bible cover to cover again and see if I can get some answers. Everyone here has been a big help.

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Ew.

That is her business. Please be respectful.

DarkPolarBear-- Good luck. It takes a lot of courage to approach someone if you have no idea how they will react. Be brave and use very clear communication.

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Ew.

That is her business. Please be respectful.

This whole thread is about her business. I'm allowed to express my opinions, thanks.

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Calligraphette_Coe

I am, as I beleive, asexual-homoromantic or biromantic. Absolutely nobody in my life knows this...

And I am in love with my best friend. I know I am in love with her. I treat her like a princess, respect her, take her on trips, buy her gifts for every major holiday, and her birthday.

But she insists on dating these guys...the kind that makes you want to kick them in the jewels. They are all dumb and arrogant. The one boyfriend that did get her a gift, found it on the floor. Literally. He found this cheap silver ring on the floor and gave it to her, I saw it. And they always try to go fast with her. They don't take her on dates, and yet a week after they start "dating" they try to kiss her.

Meanwhile, I am sitting on the sidelines watching it all go down, planning the next time I can spend time with her. The closest I have gotten to admitting my feelings is hugging her and then looking in her eyes. But she just gives me a blank and confused look as I am trying desperately to give her a hint through my expression and actions.

And when she makes physical contact with them, just touching thier arm or holding hands makes me want break the boy's fingers. And when they kiss in front of me, it makes the pit of my stomach burn and I want to her to be mine.

Spritually, of course. I just want her to be with me emotionally and spiritually, I just want to hug her and look in her eyes and see she loves me as well.

But I am very religious, and I feel like my desire to be with another woman in a platonic relationship is wrong...and I don't ask anyone in my church...I just can't.

Is it wrong? Is this a sin?

I was about to say what everyone else has said, re. love not being a sin. But that's probably only part of the answers you're seeking?

Is what you're *really* feeling guilty about (since you are pondering on the sin aspect of it all) having to do with envy? Or covetousness? JMO, but if you're not channeling those emotions destructively, just do a mea culpa and forgive yourself for being just human. I think your friend is very lucky to have a friend like you. Think of it this way: people often have many lovers throughout their lives and have cause to complain about being 'unlucky in love'.

How many people complain about being lucky to have had one lifelong, true friend who was there for them in thick or thin when they are on their death bed. We should all be so lucky. But often we aren't.

Think of this Bible story about Ruth and Esther:

And Ruth said, Entreat me not to leave thee, and to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will lodge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God.

One of the biggest agonies we can suffer through is having our Adored One leaving us behind. Their acts of convenience become our greatest personal tragedies that we often have to bear alone. But it's happened to many of us, so come commune with us for a bit and maybe you won't feel so alone?

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I'm an agnostic atheist that does not believe in the concept of sin, but I do not believe anywhere in the Bible says that love is a sin. As long as two consenting people love each other, I see no problem.

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GirlDreamer

Please refrain from insulting and name calling as it's against the TOS

GirlDreamer

Asexual Relationships moderator

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That is her business. Please be respectful.

Pretty sure that the other person's atheism is her business, too

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I don't believe in the concept of sin, you should really consider ditching your religion as it tells you that your very being is wrong. If so, why did "God" create you that way? Ask Father that one.

Seriously though don't worry about religion you are better off without it. Religion allows/promotes for further judgment of yourself and others.

You love that girl, don't worry about sinning or Christianity, just love her. That's all you can do, you cant change it so embrace it. :blush: I'm a girl lover myself (homo-romantic) I can understand the feelings you have as I used to be Christian. <_<

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Great Thief Yatagarasu

It's not a sin to want to date her. That's not for your church to decide - that's between you and God. And I don't know about you, but while I'm not religious, I don't like the idea of a God who would damn people to hell over such small details. I prefer the idea of a loving God who, as long as you're a good person who does good deeds, would ignore such things as orientation. That's just me, though.

What I do have a problem with, however, is the jealousy that's coming through in your speech. You say that you "treat her like a princess", and that all her boyfriends are "dumb and arrogant" - if that's the case, then you clearly think very poorly of your crushes standards. It was her choice to go out with them, so tough luck if you don't like them, because that's her choice. As well as that, it's none of your damn business how fast she goes in her relationships - I actually find it galling that you're trying to criticise her relationships. I know you're jealous, and I understand what that feels like, but you know what? You're sounding a bit like your stereotypical "Nice Guy". Here's a link to an explanation of what a Nice Guy is. You treating your friend "like a princess" does not give you an instant licence to date her, and your disapproval of her relationships does NOT mean that the relationships themselves were bad, or that the boys themselves were bad. Has she ever complained about them? Because from the sounds of it, she seems to like them - enough to keep being in a relationship with them, anyway (and by the way, you don't need to go on dates to have a relationship - I'm in a long-distance relationship, and I've only been on two dates with my boyfriend. gifts aren't important either, and I actually get quite annoyed when my boyfriend buys me things because it makes me feel poor). I'm sorry if this is really blunt and really nasty sounding, but it needed to be said - because I'm pretty sure no one wants to be a Nice Guy. If you want to ask her out, do it - giving her a hug and looking deep into her eyes isn't going to make her drop everything she's doing and go "Oh my God, I've been so blind all this time! Take me, Polar Bear!" before swooning into your arms.

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