Christianity, the Bible and Asexuality

[Kzil]

Kzil... I am wondering, if you don't mind my asking, the Mormons believe you must be married to reach the highest level of Heaven... Where do old spinsters, asexual people, gay people, people who just can't get a date, and etc., go? Is there a place for other folks in the Afterlife?

According to my Mormon, while marriage is required, there's not actually a clear requirement to have sex. So asexuality wouldn't necessarily be an issue.

Anyway, there are other levels of Heaven, which, being levels of Heaven, should logically be lovely places to be. I don't know much about the levels, though, so I don't know who would go where or whatnot.

That's accurate.

More on the different kingdoms:

Celestial - People who embrace the gospel of Jesus Christ and do their best to live the commandments. Likened to the glory of the Sun. Further divided into three levels, the highest of which requires marriage in a temple. Nothing is said about the other two.

Terrestrial - People who don't embrace the gospel, but otherwise live good lives. Likened to the glory of the Moon.

Telestial - Evil People. Likened to the glory of the stars.

Note: We believe that we existed as spirits before being born and that everyone born on the Earth chose at that point to follow Christ. For that choice everyone on Earth, regardless of what they do, will be rewarded with going to a place of at least some glory.

[Guest member25959]

I believe I am asexual. I don't believe that religion and sexuality should intermix or determine the one because of the other. Although I disagree with what my parents believe from their Christian perspective, I still think that one can believe those things if they choose and be asexual as well.

Pretty much this. It's probably best not to discuss it with your family in future, in that case. Afterall, sexual orientation doesn't have to be a public matter. At least they're aware of it now, though.

[silvernlilac]

My boyfriend's grandmother thinks I'm under demonic influence because I'm asexual. And she's told most of the family this. Apparently, to not feel a desire for sex is to spit in the face of God's gift of desire between a husband and wife.

Thats really shocking :o I really feel for you *hugs*. Its sad your boyfriend's grandmother cannot see beyond her own beliefs and realise how hurtful her comments are to you. I was raised in a christian family too and taught to believe sex outside of marriage is wrong. None of my family know Im asexual but Im sure if they did, im sure some of them would tell me it was wrong. To this day, I still think sex within marriage is a lot more acceptable than outside of it, not sure I can ever change that belief now even though Im not a christian

[Verust]

I would not worry about the demonic influence. My mom blames literally everything on demons...everything. She says she does not consider gay men or woman to be sinful, but having sex w/o marriage always is <_< .

.

She has said several times that I need to fight off the demons surrounding me as I am in a deep sadness right now. I don't recall being in a deep sadness. Either way she views it as unnatural but I don't think...harmful as she only seems to focus on not having sex before marriage. I am unsure if she believes it is actually an orientation though.

[Trolley Girl]

I am not 100% sure, but it is stuff like this that might be a major contributor to the fact that I am a fan of Black Metal music.

[Metal Fuschia]

Lol

[Moonchaser]

Religion bothers me, too.

It bothers me because it has been wrong about SO MANY THINGS and yet it asserts itself like it knows everything.

Just be confident in who you are and stay tall.

This. I'm not atheist, but I believe in following my own heart and having a personal relationship with deity. So much more harm than good has been done in the name of organized religion, IMO. If one studies the history of most monotheistic religions they seem to become controlling monstrosities if given free reign. The Reformation in Europe left, in some cases, one woman alive in an entire village. In the US, with reproductive rights under attack, we seem to be headed in that direction. I find it rather sickening for any group of people to claim to know better than others what God wants anyone to do. That's somewhat delusional if you ask me.

[Storme]

I'll sum up what I think by quoting my post on this thread about coming out to your parents.

Coming from a Christian family, they believe sex should be saved for the one guy who you want to spend the rest of your life with, preferably after marriage, so I think they might even be relieved to know I'm not going to be throwing myself into bed with some random thing I found on the floor of a nightclub somewhere. I think they'd be cool with it and, to be honest, find it a little amusing.

I think the only thing they might not take so well is me being aromantic, my Mum would probably be a little disappointed that I'll never find "the one" and "have kids and raise a family".

Also, although the bible says some stuff about homosexuality and blargh, it only ever mentions it in the form of sex/rape, so I don't see anything wrong with two people of the same gender simply loving each other, the bible supports loving other people, it doesn't say there is a 'right' or 'wrong' way to love someone.

[Ymir]

In regards to asexuality.

BIBLE QUOTE CORINTHIANS

It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. 3 Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

6 But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment. 7 For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that.

8 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; 9 but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

As for homosexuality

BIBLE QUOTE LEVITICUS

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Slightly grim don't you think?

I wonder though, why so much hate for homosexuals, no matter what sin you commit, the punishment will be the same. God doesn't seem to differentiate, finite sin is a infinite insult to the infinite god etc... So when you lust for another, or even lie you've committed an infinite insult to god. I they should stop and worry about their own asses.

[Almagest]

I'm Christian and no one in my family or in my church has had a problem with asexuality. Probably because Paul was most likely ace and because 1 Corinthians practically endorses asexuality. People who say asexuality is "against God" are just putting words in God's mouth so they can justify their own beliefs.

[seneca]

I think I may ave a passage where Jesus mentions people with no sex drive.

It's in Matthew, 19, 10-12

10 His disciples say unto him If the case of the man be so with his wife is it not good to marry.

11 But he says unto them. All men cannot recieve this saying, save they to whom it is given.

12 For there are some eunuchs, which were born from their mother's wombs: (ACES?)and there are some eunuchs which were made eunuchs by men: and there be eunuchs that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to recieve it, let him recieve it.

being a eunuch made in the mother's womb????

What do people think??

[Bastett]

I used to attend a private Christian school, so here's my experience. Every Wednesday a pastor from the school's favorite church would come in and give a devotional to us kids. His favorite topics were preaching against fantasy, secular music, depression, and of course, sex. There were a lot of devotionals about sex. I realized that sex must be something everyone who was "bad" worships. I associated sex with "bad", and for a long time I thought maybe my disinterest in sex personally was a result of those constant "sex is perverted and immoral unless you're an adult and married" sermons I listened to.

I had an older friend who had already graduated from this school, and he was the first asexual I ever met. However, he was extremely religious and was certain that his asexuality wasn't an orientation, like gay and straight, but was actually a blessing from God. He believed that asexuality was his reward for abstaining from impure thoughts and lust. He promoted asexuality as an indication of his holiness. I kid you not. Back then I was young and believed him. I believed that maybe I too, was gifted and special and better than all the other kids. Why wouldn't I? I was 14 years old and stupid. For a few years I became antisexual (along with my friend who already was), and believed that other people were heathens for easily succumbing to such a vile temptation.

Luckily for me, the school was disbanded and I eventually went to a public high school, where my mind was cleared of propaganda and any misconceptions I learned about regular people. I thought, "Well, if the reason I'm not sexual is because I'm Christian, then why are so many other Christians living together, and having premarital sex, and thinking lustful thoughts?" I eventually overcame my antisexuality and accepted my own asexuality as simply a personal preference, and not divine favoritism from a deity who thinks sex is a big no-no.

[Undecimilla]

At present I spend at least two hours of my day in meditation or contemplative prayer. Over time I have discovered that one can have the most intense and passionate love for God that surpasses any form of bodily desire/attraction/lust/whatever for another human being. This is of course why most of the saints and mystics of many faiths and not only the Christian faith were content to live celibate lives.

The simple truth is many folk who call themselves 'Christian' have made their god in their own image which is why they can be so close minded and bigotted against mostly everybody who isn't like them. If a person has truly experienced the love of God they demonstrate it in their daily lives. Pouring over Bible verses in an effort to find more reasons for pointing fingers at others is not Christianity and never was.

[Rallion]

I was (fairly recently) baptised into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (aka Mormon or LDS). The church at large believes strongly that relationships (and most especially marriage) is ordained by God as being between a man and a woman. Having sex (once you're married of course) in order to procreate is considered a good thing. We have many brothers and sisters waiting to come to the Earth, and we need to make bodies for them.

HOWEVER! I have never heard anything about having sex being a necessity in any way, nor have I heard anyone say that not having sex with your spouse being a sin.

Now, if we were to jump for a moment from just asexuals and talk about other sexualities: yes, we believe that same-sex relationships are wrong. They're against God's plan. However, that doesn't mean homosexuals are bad people. We (those of us who think about it with any degree of rationality) realise it's not a choice, and we have nothing against the people. It's the acts that we have a problem with, not the people.

[nadarien]

Islam is quite encouraging of heterosexual sexual relationships (within the context of marriage) - and it is something which is to be enjoyed (not simply for children as in Catholicism). Also, asceticism is generally frowned upon apart from in some Sufi sects.

However, any sexual relationships outside of marriage or which are not heterosexual are strongly discouraged

As for asexuality, I'm not too sure, because there is a big emphasis on having a large family and pleasing your spouse (this opens a whole other can of worms), but I don't think it would be a 'religious' problem, it's more likely that the Muslim community would simply not be very understanding.

[Christine L.S]

I am part of the episcopal church, and we actually have a gay bishop. :D The South part of our church really does need to work on accepting gay people, but all the episcopal kids down in the South where I live have no problems with gay relationships. Our parents on the other hand...

Note on that passage in Leviticus: turns out if you read the original Hebrew, it wasn't abomination in reference to homosexual acts. It was forbidden, and the word has no positive or negative connotations. If you go to Israel today, the same word would be used to get you to stay off the grass. It is an abomination to walk on this grass. :lol:

Since I was brought up in a mainline denomination, the lack of sexuality wasn't even mentioned. There was just a underlining notion that everyone would get married eventually. Personally, considering how many leaders of the Church didn't have sex, there should be no problem. Even Christianity's grand leader, Jesus, didn't have sexual relations. Last time I checked, when the devil tempted him in the desert, Jesus wasn't tempted by many women. Personally, I think the devil would have brought it up if there was any sexuality in him.

[FallingBlossom]

There are some rather judgmental people within various Christian communities who seem to believe that there is no such thing as asexuality. I can't really find anything on asexuality in religion, and absolutely nothing which condemns it. I would have thought people would think acey-ness a good thing

I'm a Catholic, and the Church doesn't have an official teaching on asexuality. Yay! :D

However, a couple can agree not to have sex, as long as the understanding is mutual. Maybe this was an implicit allowance for asexual couples? I don't really know.

[KAW9]

Don't think anyone has mentioned this so, here goes. The only reference to asexuality/something like it that I've come across is with Paul in 1st Corinthians. Paul says that some people were born with the gift of "singleness" and able to be happy without getting married. Paul also says that he believes he might have been given this gift. Although, this seems more of a reference to aromantism than asexuality, it does show that the Bible has some understanding/flexability in reguards to marriage/sex (considering its a sin to have sex before your married) even if that "understanding" is the size of a dot.

But, i try not to think to hard with topics like asexuality/homosexuality/etc... in reguards to the Bible. It contradicts itself all over the place, and their is a variety of evidence that some of the old testimate stories may have come from myths around at the time (like the Great Flood). Not to mention their are a lot of books that were not included in the Bible for whatever reason. So believing is nice, but blind faith is just naive.

I think people's response to asexuality, be it good or bad, doesn't really much to do with any religion since most religions I know of don't really discuss asexuality. If people pull the religion card it's because they are looking for an excuse for their own close-mindedness.

[Theophilus]

At present I spend at least two hours of my day in meditation or contemplative prayer. Over time I have discovered that one can have the most intense and passionate love for God that surpasses any form of bodily desire/attraction/lust/whatever for another human being. This is of course why most of the saints and mystics of many faiths and not only the Christian faith were content to live celibate lives.

The simple truth is many folk who call themselves 'Christian' have made their god in their own image which is why they can be so close minded and bigotted against mostly everybody who isn't like them. If a person has truly experienced the love of God they demonstrate it in their daily lives. Pouring over Bible verses in an effort to find more reasons for pointing fingers at others is not Christianity and never was.

This. In fact, I chose my username because it means "lover of God."

There are some rather judgmental people within various Christian communities who seem to believe that there is no such thing as asexuality. I can't really find anything on asexuality in religion, and absolutely nothing which condemns it. I would have thought people would think acey-ness a good thing

I'm a Catholic, and the Church doesn't have an official teaching on asexuality. Yay! :D

However, a couple can agree not to have sex, as long as the understanding is mutual. Maybe this was an implicit allowance for asexual couples? I don't really know.

I'm Catholic too. Nice to see another Catholic!

I wonder why so many people who are hostile to religion have posted in this thread.

[ithaca]

I wonder why so many people who are hostile to religion have posted in this thread.

This thread is in Asexual Musings and Rantings. It is not a thread that has the purpose to group all religious-positive people, but as the OP posted, it has the purpose to collect experiences people had with religion and asexuality/sexuality.

Everyone is allowed to express their experience, positive or negative that it is, and their viewpoint can be even hostile to religion, as long as it is not offensive.

[UnicornLady]

I'm pagan, and I run the Asexual Pagans tumblr. In a lot of pagan traditions, sex is considered a magical act, and many pagan holidays and rituals have to do with fertility. In the particular pagan groups I'm a part of, fertility is often associated with the creative process in ways that aren't just related to sex, but there is definitely a lot of sexual imagery in paganism. Hence my reason for creating Asexual Pagans - there didn't seem to be enough discourse in the pagan community talking about asexuality.

Good to hear of this. I'm an atheist on the objective level, but sympathetic to a lot of Paganism in terms of personal symbolic vocabulary. I agree that a lot of Neo-Paganism overdoes the sex-positive thing, I suspect as a reaction to the patriarchal monotheistic package, and I've found some of it also a bit too hetero-orientated. Also, I think there needs to be greater thought in applying Pagan motifs to the modern world: in an overpopulated world with environmental problems, celebrating fertility is frankly irresponsible.

One of my heroes is a Pagan philosopher, writer and warrior who preferred books to skirt-chasing and decided to remain celibate after his wife died (probably in childbirth): Flavius Claudius Julianus, 'Julian the Philosopher'. A lovely young man, and the only Roman Emperor with whom I'd love to talk away the evening over coffee and books!

It's the acts that we have a problem with, not the people.

That puzzles me, because gay people don't do anything straight people don't also do...

[Alvin]

Asexual and Secular Activist Here, offering my sympathies to the OP.

[ithaca]

This thread had two very interesting conversations going on at the same time.

I split the one about homosexuality and religion and moved it to Philosophy, Politics and Science Forum.

You can now find it clicking here.

[endplusone]

So, I was raised in a Bretheren Christian family. Sexuality wise, I was raised to believe that those who aren't in a heterogeneous relationship, are disobeying God. Also, that God created man and woman to live together and be intimate only after they are married and commited to one another. That divorce is wrong unless abuse or adultery is commited blahblahblah and so on so forth.

Sounds similar to my upbringing. I grew up in a religious sect that is primarily Christian Reformed, with a mix between Calvinist and Evangelical theologies. My family has a very long, and not to mention proud, history of Protestantism, to the point where family members have traced the ancestry back to paintings depicting an ancestor being martyred. At 16 I found out I have another side to my family. On my Mom's side, both of her parents have siblings who cut communication in lieu of their Exclusive Brethren beliefs. They're regarded as a cult, and I found out because my grandparents were searching for family members who were trying to escape. Do you know if Exclusive Brethren groups are still dominant or active?

Generally, I think trying to find reference to asexuality in biblical texts seems strange to me. From what I've read of the bible, it seems more function-oriented, focusing on family units and procreation, as opposed to identity-oriented. It always makes me concerned about trying to find reference to present day society in texts written a very long time ago, as if there haven't been immense political and cultural upheavals and changes to the social world since then. Today's emphasis on identity/orientation is a lot different than how they conceived of the Self way back when. Still, at least from what I've noticed in my religious upbringing, the language of sexual identity/orientation has been appropriated and I think it would be considered abnormal. Not a lot was said on identity/orientation, though. I think the education system was hoping that if they didn't mention it, it wouldn't inspire people become gay. I haven't kept in contact with anyone I grew up with, though. I'm still working on my parents. :lol:

[ithaca]

Generally, I think trying to find reference to asexuality in biblical texts seems strange to me. From what I've read of the bible, it seems more function-oriented, focusing on family units and procreation, as opposed to identity-oriented. It always makes me concerned about trying to find reference to present day society in texts written a very long time ago, as if there haven't been immense political and cultural upheavals and changes to the social world since then. Today's emphasis on identity/orientation is a lot different than how they conceived of the Self way back when.

I agree with this.

[Kozz]

Being an atheist- I've personally never had the problem of separating faith and sexual orientation, though I have seen a similar pressure on acquaintances before (not with asexuality necessarily- but homosexuality, and I think it's a similar concept).

I agree that is a good idea to keep these two concepts separate, otherwise it may cause a lot of distress because one will feel that there is something wrong with them for something they cannot help. This is the worst type of pain and it really saddens me to find friends in such a crises.

My advice is to follow your heart and being - and not what others tell to you how you should feel. Openness and understanding of yourself may open channels for you to co-exist peacefully with your faith : )

Good luck my friend!

[HighwayToHell]

How is it that people can be Pro "Not having sex as a choice" but Anti "Not having sex as who I am"?

What the hell?!

When sexuals torture themselves by abstaining and take cold showers, the religious fanatics love it. Mea culpa!! Mea culpa!!

But when asexuals, without conscious decision or intention, sinfully disobey the commandment "be fruitful and multiply" somehow that is wrong??

I am frustrated by how backwards and double-standard this is.

[The Great WTF]

Welcome to the world of organized religion, my friend. Some groups are logical, reasonable, and accepting. Others, though, have to attack anything that is not the heteronorm. My boyfriend's grandmother claims that my aaexuality is some kind of satanic influence and, by being in a relationship with her grandson, I'm flouting God's gift of sexual desire between a husband and wife. The fact that we both refuse to have children, to her, also means we're flouting God's gift and should not be in a relationship at all. The woman's insane.

On a more logical thread, celibacy is considered honorable and good because you're saving yourself for that one special person that you will marry, make babies with, and live happily ever after with. Some of the more ignorant groups involved in religion tend to be of the belief that we are made specifically to marry and have children, thus asexuality seems like a direct attack on their life's purpose. Or they think we are lying and trying to make ourselves out to be immune to that particular sin. I had a classmate tell me that a woman being asexual is an affront to God because they will not submit to their husband's sexual desires. It varies from group to group, just like anything else. Also consider that, like everyone else in the world, it's commonly assumed that EVERYONE is sexual and that goes for Bible-believers, too. It freaks them out when they're faced with the idea and some will turn to their religion for protection.

[Sally]

How is it that people can be Pro "Not having sex as a choice" but Anti "Not having sex as who I am"?

What the hell?!

When sexuals torture themselves by abstaining and take cold showers, the religious fanatics love it. Mea culpa!! Mea culpa!!

But when asexuals, without conscious decision or intention, sinfully disobey the commandment "be fruitful and multiply" somehow that is wrong??

I am frustrated by how backwards and double-standard this is.

What religions have said that asexuality is wrong? If you mean not having children, asexuals can and do have children.

[Gray Wizard]

A religion can say nothing itself. It is a non-living entity. The people who consider themselves participants in a religion, can and do have wide interpretations of what that religion means to them and the world around them personally. So while I doubt any religious text explicitly denounces asexuality, I can easily see how some religious folk would interpret asexuality to be against their worldview, which is informed by their religion, and thus against their religion's intentions.

I believe the OP is insinuating people they have encountered that identify as a member of a religion have personally attacked their own POV. Asexuals can and do have children, sure. But, for me anyway, any "desire" to engage in sex is informed by intellectual reasoning, and not by emotion. The reasoning may involve emotion, but that emotion is never explicit sexual attraction. I have to first rationalize other types of attraction, identify a reason I would want to have sex with a person, then attempt to link my libido to whatever other attraction I experience towards said person. Whereas your average husband and wife just feel the need to couple, without thinking too much on it presumably.