Heavy Bananarama

[oneofthesun]

Does conscience even exist really? Isn't it more just a social construction that guides the minds decision making process? Is it possible that some people just care more than others? Do people who proudly commit barbaric acts in countries where these acts are considered normal cultural practices lack a conscience?

Yeah, I think conscience is a social construct.

[Guest]

Dex, I would really like to hear more about your motivations, if you're willing to write about it. My dad sees people more as chess pieces that serve purposes, and one can utilize their purpose (what most of us would call "taking advantage of) or you can try to thwart their purpose. He's really good at his job but he is neither Hitler nor Billionaire either. :)

Conscience. No, I don't think it's social construct. I think the stuff we fill up our consciences with are social constructs. Let me explain quick.

Imagine conscience like a cookie jar. You either have one or you don't. But what do you put in there? Cookies, obviously, but what counts as a cookie? If we're here in the states, you know there will be oreos and chocolate chip cookies in there. You crazies in England have... digestibles or something like that, right? You go to Morocco and you may end up with marzipan in your cookie jar!

I think people do or do not possess the capacity to genuinely care about others. Beyond that, the specifics of what we care about, that stuff I think is dictated by culture.

[Midnight Lady]

I think people do or do not possess the capacity to genuinely care about others. Beyond that, the specifics of what we care about, that stuff I think is dictated by culture.

A quick remark: hormones responsible for caring are oxitocin and vassopressin... ;) The research shows the correlation between the traumatic teenage years and the absence of oxitocin receptors. In other words, there is no place for oxitocin in the brains of traumatized people, therefore, they don't develop the ability to get attached and care for others... (correlation, alright, no causation! But still, it looks pretty interesting and logic to me...)...

[Guest]

I think people do or do not possess the capacity to genuinely care about others. Beyond that, the specifics of what we care about, that stuff I think is dictated by culture.

A quick remark: hormones responsible for caring are oxitocin and vassopressin... ;) The research shows the correlation between the traumatic teenage years and the absence of oxitocin receptors. In other words, there is no place for oxitocin in the brains of traumatized people, therefore, they don't develop the ability to get attached and care for others... (correlation, alright, no causation! But still, it looks pretty interesting and logic to me...)...

Sounds reasonable to me too.

[Midnight Lady]

I think people do or do not possess the capacity to genuinely care about others. Beyond that, the specifics of what we care about, that stuff I think is dictated by culture.

A quick remark: hormones responsible for caring are oxitocin and vassopressin... ;) The research shows the correlation between the traumatic teenage years and the absence of oxitocin receptors. In other words, there is no place for oxitocin in the brains of traumatized people, therefore, they don't develop the ability to get attached and care for others... (correlation, alright, no causation! But still, it looks pretty interesting and logic to me...)...

Sounds reasonable to me too.

Though it is always the question: do the changes in the brain take place because the phenomenon happens? Or does any particular phenomenon happen because of the changes in the brain? (in this case, the phenomenon: the lack of care and attachment. Does it happen because there is the lack of the receptors in the brain? Or does the lack of the receptors happen because a person is unable to develop care and attachment? An egg and a chicken problem in Neuropsychology is taking place so far for everything, even when they deny this problem).

[test account]

Old post.

[Guest]

I like the cookie jar thing. I would add that some people may question whether they have a conscience because they don't like the cookies in their jar, and keep trying to take them out or look for different cookies. Until you have a jar filled with cookies you like, you'll always feel a bit at odds with your cookie jar.

For example: when we were kids, my older sister used to tell me I had 'no sense of duty'. I assumed then that I was selfish and uncaring of people. It made me question whether I had a conscience, because I didn't feel bad about doing my own thing and letting my crazy family sort out their own mess. I carried that burden for years until I grew old enough to realise I was a normal independent person and my sister was just trying to manipulate me.

What I'm saying I suppose is that sometimes, people try to tell you that your oreos/ digestives/ whatever are actually dog turds. And if you're worried they could be right, they are almost certainly wrong, otherwise you wouldn't care.

Your brainz make me happy. I feel intellectually crushy now!

[test account]

Old post.

[Midnight Lady]

I like the cookie jar thing. I would add that some people may question whether they have a conscience because they don't like the cookies in their jar, and keep trying to take them out or look for different cookies. Until you have a jar filled with cookies you like, you'll always feel a bit at odds with your cookie jar.

For example: when we were kids, my older sister used to tell me I had 'no sense of duty'. I assumed then that I was selfish and uncaring of people. It made me question whether I had a conscience, because I didn't feel bad about doing my own thing and letting my crazy family sort out their own mess. I carried that burden for years until I grew old enough to realise I was a normal independent person and my sister was just trying to manipulate me.

What I'm saying I suppose is that sometimes, people try to tell you that your oreos/ digestives/ whatever are actually dog turds. And if you're worried they could be right, they are almost certainly wrong, otherwise you wouldn't care.

But shouldn't be there some unquestionable things (cookies which should be included in EVERY single package)? Some universals?

[test account]

Old post.

[Cakey]

My cookie mum and cookie dad had some rogue genes, which explains why I am the cookie monster. :twisted: :twisted:

[Midnight Lady]

I think given we're the same species there would have to be. Maybe that's like the ingredients in the cookies--they all have flour and sugar? Hehehe I'm going mad with this metaphor, i like it :)

And what would it be? What parts of conscience would be universal and equal to those basics?

[5_♦♣]

I wasn't sure if I should post this here or in the 30 something thread, but I figure it qualifies as 'heavy stuff'.

Anyway, I don't have the same passion for my job as I did even two weeks ago. And by now, you likely have seen me mention that I love my job, even describe it as my 'true love'. I don't know if it's because there hasn't been much to edit lately; last week, there were only one or two articles per day to edit, whereas there's usually 3 or 4. And even then, for the most part, it's not challenging.

The weird thing is, over the past 14 months, it is what has gotten me out of bed each morning. And now... It's become boring/mundane/routine/tedious and it's also a thankless job. Though I like to think I'm somehow making a difference, given the site I edit for, but I've even been questioning that as well. But still, I'm not sure I want to quit either.

[Lady Girl]

I think given we're the same species there would have to be. Maybe that's like the ingredients in the cookies--they all have flour and sugar? Hehehe I'm going mad with this metaphor, i like it :)

And what would it be? What parts of conscience would be universal and equal to those basics?

I would think once a certain state of agreed civility has been reached...perhaps the absence of any desire to take another life is flour?

I wasn't sure if I should post this here or in the 30 something thread, but I figure it qualifies as 'heavy stuff'.

Anyway, I don't have the same passion for my job as I did even two weeks ago. And by now, you likely have seen me mention that I love my job, even describe it as my 'true love'. I don't know if it's because there hasn't been much to edit lately; last week, there were only one or two articles per day to edit, whereas there's usually 3 or 4. And even then, for the most part, it's not challenging.

The weird thing is, over the past 14 months, it is what has gotten me out of bed each morning. And now... It's become boring/mundane/routine/tedious and it's also a thankless job. Though I like to think I'm somehow making a difference, given the site I edit for, but I've even been questioning that as well. But still, I'm not sure I want to quit either.

Since you brought up the workplace, I'd like to ask if this seems right or conscionable. My boss held a color class today on my day off and expected me to be there with no compensation (for that matter, not even so much as a thank you for attending)...I'm quite sure if I had failed to attend there would however have been some form of retribution.

I don't mean to defer from your job woes A of Clubs. Do you think what you are experiencing may be temporary?

[5_♦♣]

I wasn't sure if I should post this here or in the 30 something thread, but I figure it qualifies as 'heavy stuff'.

Anyway, I don't have the same passion for my job as I did even two weeks ago. And by now, you likely have seen me mention that I love my job, even describe it as my 'true love'. I don't know if it's because there hasn't been much to edit lately; last week, there were only one or two articles per day to edit, whereas there's usually 3 or 4. And even then, for the most part, it's not challenging.

The weird thing is, over the past 14 months, it is what has gotten me out of bed each morning. And now... It's become boring/mundane/routine/tedious and it's also a thankless job. Though I like to think I'm somehow making a difference, given the site I edit for, but I've even been questioning that as well. But still, I'm not sure I want to quit either.

Since you brought up the workplace, I'd like to ask if this seems right or conscionable. My boss held a color class today on my day off and expected me to be there with no compensation (for that matter, not even so much as a thank you for attending)...I'm quite sure if I had failed to attend there would however have been some form of retribution.

I don't mean to defer from your job woes A of Clubs. Do you think what you are experiencing may be temporary?

1: What do you mean by 'color class'? 2: I hope so. As I don't know where I could possibly find a job, especially with aspergers.

[Winter Hill]

I wasn't sure if I should post this here or in the 30 something thread, but I figure it qualifies as 'heavy stuff'.

Anyway, I don't have the same passion for my job as I did even two weeks ago. And by now, you likely have seen me mention that I love my job, even describe it as my 'true love'. I don't know if it's because there hasn't been much to edit lately; last week, there were only one or two articles per day to edit, whereas there's usually 3 or 4. And even then, for the most part, it's not challenging.

The weird thing is, over the past 14 months, it is what has gotten me out of bed each morning. And now... It's become boring/mundane/routine/tedious and it's also a thankless job. Though I like to think I'm somehow making a difference, given the site I edit for, but I've even been questioning that as well. But still, I'm not sure I want to quit either.

Hiya :)

I know it's not a great deal of help, but I totally know where you're coming from with this.

I'm in a "making a difference" type of job, too. I've always done what I love--independent community radio, often in disadvantaged areas. Only now, instead of being out there making radio, I spend my days talking and writing about it, consulting and advising people who are actually doing it. It's reasonably interesting work, but I find myself less and less willing to drag my arse out of bed every morning for it. And I'm always the first one in the office each morning!

It ebbs and flows, too, like it seems yours does. There are weeks when I'm not leaving the place until 7-8pm because I've got so much to do, and then there are the days I come in and have to surreptitiously post on AVEN, or read the news, just to stave off the boredom. I wish it was a bit more even! (Protip: the "IP Board" theme at the bottom of the page is great for hiding AVEN posting at work. It's just a generic board theme, you could be on any site.)

I'm no advice king, but I think the situation we're both in is that we have jobs that are all-consuming. It's all very well making a difference to others' lives, but we need to be careful not to neglect our own, lest we find ourselves needing the same assistance we've been giving others, but no one is there to give to us. I often fantasise about escaping to a job I don't have to think about after work and at weekends--a menial job, where I go into work, do as I'm told for eight hours, then leave behind totally, and go back to my own life, and I bet you do from time-to-time, too, if you're anything like me.

We give of ourselves so much that it consumes us, and then when it's gone, it's strange--because suddenly, we're forced to think about our own situations, and see that perhaps things are not as rosy as it feels when we are taken up 100% by work. It sounds weird, but I've found that setting aside an evening every so often just to sit and think helps. PM me if you want to chat more specifically :) I necessarily have to be quite general on the open board!

[Lady Girl]

1: What do you mean by 'color class'? 2: I hope so. As I don't know where I could possibly find a job, especially with aspergers.

1: I meant a class about hair color (yet another brilliant idea, we were told not to use the term 'dye' over 20 years ago). 2: I hope so too, I hope you get busy again.

[test account]

Old post.

[Lady Girl]

Thanks Sweetex! I really needed to hear someone besides my husband agree that this is pathetic on her part...it has happened at least three or four times with her now (twice it was an entire day) and she has only owned the joint for a year and a half. She is my third boss at this job, and I used to think the best one so far. I was wrong, the others always compensated in some way...even if it was just snacks, and they always said thank you. I wish I had the nerve to say something about this the next time it happens, as it most certainly will. I can't imagine that I will though. :(

I think you are right about the age and feeling like the job is meaningless. I still feel that way at times...10 years after my initial realization that doing hair isn't really improving the world. However, there are other hidden values to it, I do help people feel better sometimes and this holds some delight for me. I hope you find something that delights you!!! :)

[Lady Girl]

Conscience. No, I don't think it's social construct. I think the stuff we fill up our consciences with are social constructs. Let me explain quick.

Imagine conscience like a cookie jar. You either have one or you don't. But what do you put in there? Cookies, obviously, but what counts as a cookie? If we're here in the states, you know there will be oreos and chocolate chip cookies in there. You crazies in England have... digestibles or something like that, right? You go to Morocco and you may end up with marzipan in your cookie jar!

I think people do or do not possess the capacity to genuinely care about others. Beyond that, the specifics of what we care about, that stuff I think is dictated by culture.

You're super smart missy!!! :)

Though it is always the question: do the changes in the brain take place because the phenomenon happens? Or does any particular phenomenon happen because of the changes in the brain? (in this case, the phenomenon: the lack of care and attachment. Does it happen because there is the lack of the receptors in the brain? Or does the lack of the receptors happen because a person is unable to develop care and attachment? An egg and a chicken problem in Neuropsychology is taking place so far for everything, even when they deny this problem).

Chicken and egg will always be a problem for science...Karma removes some of that issue...

I like the cookie jar thing. I would add that some people may question whether they have a conscience because they don't like the cookies in their jar, and keep trying to take them out or look for different cookies.

Seems to be so often the case.

I think given we're the same species there would have to be. Maybe that's like the ingredients in the cookies--they all have flour and sugar? Hehehe I'm going mad with this metaphor, i like it :)

You are brilliant as well dear Sweetex. :D

My cookie mum and cookie dad had some rogue genes, which explains why I am the cookie monster. :twisted: :twisted:

This sounds like making cookies without using measuring utensils. :lol:

If the lack of any desire to take another life were the flour...what might sugar be?

[test account]

Old post.

[Lady Girl]

The way I am paid is indeed part of the problem! I work on a commission basis, so even when I am there for my scheduled hours, I only make money if I am doing someone's hair. This issue I have adjusted to over the years and keep regular hours, but work hours that I seem busiest and an amount per week to accommodate the size of my client base (usually around 30). Hence the part time sign making job at my husband's place of employment.

Cookies yesterday would have made me happy. :lol:

[Lucinda]

I had a neighbor cut down both his dwarf banana and orange trees because they attracted citrus rats. I would have taken the bananas if he had offered them and dehydrated them into banana chips. Banana dacquiries would have been good too. :)

BW, on a more serious note, I share your vision for you. How will you realize it? There was a case in Florida where a boy petitioned the court to divorce his mother so that he could be adopted by his foster family. I felt sorry for the mother as this case was actually televised.

Speaking of cases, ML, Ted Bundy had the right to good legal counsel. I doubt that they had first hand knowledge that he was guilty. Furthermore, he wanted to call the shots and cross-examine witnesses himself. I believe an attorney can act in good conscience while still holding the prosecution's feet to the fire. Even a pretend-attorney, like Bundy, had the right to represent himself. I would have no problem recommending that a certain line of questioning should be avoided. Again, I would rather the state prove their case than watch my client dig their own grave. Which would be worse? Defending someone you suspect is guilty or advising someone who won't listen?

By the way, I have been summoned to jury duty May 16th.

LG, in some professions, the members are required to take continuing education classes to keep up their credentials. They do it on their own time and with their own money. In your case, was anyone else compensated? Did the class concern a new product line that you would not have been able to use without taking the class first? I guess my thinking is that you shouldn't worry about compensation if the class would primarily benefit you in the long run but should have been compensated if it was to the benefit of the shop owner who may have been paid by the product company for holding the class.

I believe chocolate chip cookies belong in the cookie jar, marzipan on a plate under a glass cover, and oreos in the bin. :)

Lucinda

[5_♦♣]

"I wonder if it's a natural progression to get to a certain age and start reassessing the value of what you're doing, and have a kind of crisis about it".

Yeah, a quarter century life crisis. I already want this crap to be over with and it only has just really begun.

[Cakey]

My cookie mum and cookie dad had some rogue genes, which explains why I am the cookie monster. :twisted: :twisted:

This sounds like making cookies without using measuring utensils. :lol:

If the lack of any desire to take another life were the flour...what might sugar be?

The taste of sweet revenge! ....... :twisted: :twisted:

[5_♦♣]

I wasn't sure if I should post this here or in the 30 something thread, but I figure it qualifies as 'heavy stuff'.

Anyway, I don't have the same passion for my job as I did even two weeks ago. And by now, you likely have seen me mention that I love my job, even describe it as my 'true love'. I don't know if it's because there hasn't been much to edit lately; last week, there were only one or two articles per day to edit, whereas there's usually 3 or 4. And even then, for the most part, it's not challenging.

The weird thing is, over the past 14 months, it is what has gotten me out of bed each morning. And now... It's become boring/mundane/routine/tedious and it's also a thankless job. Though I like to think I'm somehow making a difference, given the site I edit for, but I've even been questioning that as well. But still, I'm not sure I want to quit either.

Hiya :)

I know it's not a great deal of help, but I totally know where you're coming from with this.

I'm in a "making a difference" type of job, too. I've always done what I love--independent community radio, often in disadvantaged areas. Only now, instead of being out there making radio, I spend my days talking and writing about it, consulting and advising people who are actually doing it. It's reasonably interesting work, but I find myself less and less willing to drag my arse out of bed every morning for it. And I'm always the first one in the office each morning!

It ebbs and flows, too, like it seems yours does. There are weeks when I'm not leaving the place until 7-8pm because I've got so much to do, and then there are the days I come in and have to surreptitiously post on AVEN, or read the news, just to stave off the boredom. I wish it was a bit more even! (Protip: the "IP Board" theme at the bottom of the page is great for hiding AVEN posting at work. It's just a generic board theme, you could be on any site.)

I'm no advice king, but I think the situation we're both in is that we have jobs that are all-consuming. It's all very well making a difference to others' lives, but we need to be careful not to neglect our own, lest we find ourselves needing the same assistance we've been giving others, but no one is there to give to us. I often fantasise about escaping to a job I don't have to think about after work and at weekends--a menial job, where I go into work, do as I'm told for eight hours, then leave behind totally, and go back to my own life, and I bet you do from time-to-time, too, if you're anything like me.

We give of ourselves so much that it consumes us, and then when it's gone, it's strange--because suddenly, we're forced to think about our own situations, and see that perhaps things are not as rosy as it feels when we are taken up 100% by work. It sounds weird, but I've found that setting aside an evening every so often just to sit and think helps. PM me if you want to chat more specifically :) I necessarily have to be quite general on the open board!

Well, thing is I work online. (See sig). And I use a different browser for work than I do for here and everything else-Chrome is not good for fixing typos in titles... Unless the typo happens to be at the beginning of the title, say first 3 or so words. I also don't have a set schedule, as articles are posted at given time of day, including evenings. I also work from home, which is one of the things I've always loved about it-the fact that I don't have to leave the house to work.

Exactly, I've got so carried away with work that it quickly became everything to me-my motivation, my 'true love'. As it gave (still does give, I think) my life meaning and purpose. And without meaning and purpose, what's the point in being alive? I mean, it's like I'm dying inside.

[Cakey]

I wasn't sure if I should post this here or in the 30 something thread, but I figure it qualifies as 'heavy stuff'.

Anyway, I don't have the same passion for my job as I did even two weeks ago. And by now, you likely have seen me mention that I love my job, even describe it as my 'true love'. I don't know if it's because there hasn't been much to edit lately; last week, there were only one or two articles per day to edit, whereas there's usually 3 or 4. And even then, for the most part, it's not challenging.

The weird thing is, over the past 14 months, it is what has gotten me out of bed each morning. And now... It's become boring/mundane/routine/tedious and it's also a thankless job. Though I like to think I'm somehow making a difference, given the site I edit for, but I've even been questioning that as well. But still, I'm not sure I want to quit either.

Working on your own may have a bearing on things, although I know you interact with people over the web, if you don't have contact with work colleagues in real life, this may add to your maudlin mood, maybe?

Also,I have found through experience, it is not necessarily the job I disliked, but some of the people I interacted with!

As well, when my mind is no longer challenged, I start getting restless, I am like this now, so I am studying for further vocational qualifications to help me in my job search. In actual fact, these restless feelings have been responsible for advancing my career, as it pushed me to do something about the situation. So I guess it may have a beneficial outcome for you, if it is cause of your current malaise?

We are more inspired when something is new and a challenge, once conquered, it is just all repetition! :)

[5_♦♣]

"We are more inspired when something is new and a challenge, once conquered, it is just all repetition".

True. I've finally admitted to myself that it's repetitive. Whereas, for the past few weeks, I was in denial about that-as I just couldn't bring myself to admit it.

[Guest]

Ace of Clubs... that quarter-life crisis is a bitch. I only have sympathy for you. Most people I know went thru it and it sucks. I remember when I was younger I was absolutely certain that work was going to be my life. My studies were my passion, so my job would be my passion too, right?? Except that jobs are 90% paperwork, answering phones, talking to people who don't actually need/want/will benefit from your services... dealing with IP servers and crashed client files, malpractice suits (we always have a few going on in the office)... it's mostly nonsense. And even when you do get something interesting, you've likely done it so many times that it feels boring anyway. Unlike in school where you can handpick topics, in the real world, they come to you. So you may get lots of articles that you don't care about it. I may get a bunch of cases that are losers, or clients who are merely greedy. At the end of the day I think we have to balance our happiness with our paycheck against our happiness doing our work tasks and figure out if we're generally in the red or in the black, happiness-wise.

Lady... if you only work on commission, having to go in without pay makes sense to me. I dunno, I have to do stuff I don't get paid for all the time. I get a base wage for office hours (close to minimum wage) and everything else is based on billable hours. Right now we're slow as fuck so I get very few billables.... but i still have to do office work to keep busy, and I don't get paid for that. I don't know. My partner worked for about 4 months at 7/11 and she had to go in, unpaid, for staff meetings. Usually she'd work a graveyard, get off at 7, and have to keep her eyelids pryed open so she could show up at 9 for a meeting. In those cases I think its bullshit because she was an hourly employee, but what are you gonna do?

Ace of Cakes... I've also found that my enjoyment of my job is most closely correlated with how much I like the people I work with. At my last job my boss was a nightmare but I LOVED the office manager... and it was usually just the 2 of us in the office so it was pretty chill. I ended up quitting because my boss lost custody for our clients because he was too drunk to show up to court on time... and I couldn't deal with that. We make enough mistakes accidentally, we don't need to be ruining people's lives because of addiction issues.

In other news, Jennifer is still blue (oh yeah that's me for those who haven't been formally introduced). So you know I live in Portland, Oregon, and you know that Portland is renowned for its rain. We just came off the rainiest spring in history (no joke!) and I was fine thru it all... now its suddenly sunny and warm and I feel so bummed! I'm wondering if I'm suffering from disappointed false expectations... when it was rainy it was fine that I didn't do much, but now that it's sunny I feel guilty about not doing much. I dunno.

[Guest]

By the way, I have been summoned to jury duty May 16th.

I'm gonna calendar this because I want to hear all about it. I would love to be on a jury!