Primary attraction - more than looks?

[Raven Darkholme]

Hi!

So, I have a question. One of the most common definitions of demisexuality I've come across is "a person who experiences only secondary attraction, not primary attraction", with secondary attraction defined as based on an emotional connection, and primary attraction as based on "outward qualities such as a person's looks, clothes, or personality" (citing from the wiki).

But is personality really an outward quality? I'm asking because I hardly ever experience sexual attraction based purely on looks. Aesthetic appreciation, yes, but not sexual attraction: give me a picture of a person I don't know and I literally can't say if I find them attractive or not. (I discovered this when I joined a dating website and I had to rate people's profile photos; I kept giving everyone three out of five stars )

But I do feel sexual attraction based on (for lack of a better description) the whole person. The way they laugh, the things they say, the sound of their voice, their sense of humor, the way they move... (This explains why I find one actor/actress in one movie absolutely drop dead gorgeous but the exact same actor/actress in a different movie completely unattractive - even if they look the same, they play a different person.)

I don't think this can be considered secondary attraction because there isn't a profound emotional bond (you can't have an emotional connection with a person you only see on the television), but it isn't purely looks-based either.

On a related note: I don't know if anyone here has read "Sexual Fluidity: understanding women's love and desire" by Lisa Diamond, but she has an entire chapter on what she calls "person-based attraction". I've come across something like it elsewhere too: people (mostly women) saying they're attracted to "the person, not the gender" when they're asked if they're gay/straight/bisexual.

So my question is, would you consider this to be part of the "demisexual" label? Not that I care that much about labeling, but I am wondering if there are people out there who have the same experience...

(P.S.: English is not my native language, so apologies for any mistakes!)

[Quiverfree]

I'll be interested to see what people say to this too, even though it doesn't relate to my personal experience as much.

I also read Sexual Fluidity and I think it would be great to sort out how Diamond's model relates to the ones on the wiki, since as far as I could find she's the only researcher who seems to be picking up on the distinction between sexual and romantic orientation at all.

[MadRat]

and primary attraction as based on "outward qualities such as a person's looks, clothes, or personality" (citing from the wiki).

But is personality really an outward quality?

This is your own an answer for your question:

But I do feel sexual attraction based on (for lack of a better description) the whole person. The way they laugh, the things they say, the sound of their voice, their sense of humor, the way they move...

out there who have the same experience...

I think the way how people move, their sense of humour and other similar things can tell you a lot about their personality.

[99dreams]

I have had similar experiences. When I was younger, my friend would gush about guys all the time. We could be eating at a restaurant and all she cared about was the waiter and how hot he was. I really didn't care about the waiter or any other guy that made her stop and drool. I could never really understand why people should get attention just because they are physically attractive. I think people should gain attention because of their personality. But, we live in a world where beautiful people with horrible personalities are our celebrities; our idols, so I'm not too surprised that beauty gets attention. For someone to seem really awesome to me... they would have to have an impressive personality. I guess it all comes down to what you favor most, beauty or brains.

I enjoy having intellectual conversations with people I date... and weirdly... a not so attractive person can seem very attractive after I get to know their personality. I guess... personality builds on the shallow and poorly built "primary" attraction. So in my rational mind... why waste time and effort gushing over a physically attractive person when you could use your time wisely and delve into someone's mind. You know, skip the primary attraction and just go straight to the secondary attraction. Or maybe I operate backwards... I think that secondary attraction comes first for me... and then after I get butterflies from a person's amazing personality... then I'll start to notice how beautiful they are on the outside. But its not a shallow primary attraction because I already built a strong secondary attraction... so the beauty I see after my secondary attraction is different.

I think seeing beauty after falling in love with someone's mind is quite an adventure. I find that the person I fall for is like a beautiful flower I want to observe... delicate, alive, and ever-changing. I guess what I'm trying to explain is that you see physical beauty differently if you know the person's mind first because you're not just looking at the surface but you're looking at the outward and inward of a person all at once.

Falling for primary attraction first is like buying a book because the cover is pretty. Falling for secondary attraction first is like buying a book because you liked what you read.

All the relationships I ever had that consisted of just physical attraction... ended up crashing and burning. I feel like I rambled some but I really do think that demisexuals favor brains over beauty and I think that goes for ALL asexuals of any type. We all don't favor the sexual aspects of life so it's obvious that lack of outward attraction to people is a top factor in asexual characteristics. blah blah blah... sorry for all the run-on sentences. haha.

[The Bearded One]

This topic reminds me of the Latin concepts "persona" and "ainima".

I'm pretty nonverbal, and I can't translate or explain these terms well.

"persona" is an individual's public mask, or "face" (a word from oriental languages like Chinese, Japanese, or Korean that also doesn't translate well).

"ainima" is ones spirit, or essence, and can only be seen by the person themselves since only they have an internal point of view.

As people become close (intimate in social science lingo) and share thoughts, feelings, beliefs, impressions, confidences, secrets, etc. more of a person's "ainima" becomes known.

Is it possible that primary attraction is to someone's "persona", while secondary attraction is to someone's "anima"?

(P.S.: English is not my native language, so apologies for any mistakes!)

Not to worry. Your English is probably better than mine, and I'm a native speaker. :)

[Kitty Spoon Train]

Is it possible that primary attraction is to someone's "persona", while secondary attraction is to someone's "anima"?

Actually, that sounds very plausible.

I'm heterodemisexual. It's hard to explain my internal reaction when seeing a new good looking woman, since it's basically an innate gut reaction - but if I had to intellectualise it, it goes something like this:

"Yeah, she's good looking, but so what? She could be totally wrong for me in every other way. If I got to know her and everything clicked, then I guess the attractive outward appearance and persona is nice icing on the cake."

Again, I don't really think this consciously. But if I had to dig deep and break it down, it seems to be something like this.

[Sketch Doge]

I totally agree with Guzica (as I have found I often do xD) any way I realize this every time someone says "Oh look how hot she is, or, OH MY GOD *jaw drop*" My reaction is pretty much... "Ok, so..." I don't get sexually attracted to people based on the personality or the laugh or anything like that either. Those things are physically attractive. E.g. they make me want to know the person more.

Meh, I don't know, that inability to understand the primary sexual thing is depressing sometimes. So people look nice, or are awesome people, but what does that have to do with sex?

[Verust]

I saw a TV show with a very small study regarding smell. The people who participated basically smelled shirts of a few people (not while they were being worn) and it ended out matching with the person they said was the most attractive to them. I have no idea if this was credible at all but there may be some more than just the appearance that makes sexuals find people attractive.

.

Either way I do not relate to this at all. The one person I did date I had known for 4-5 years before hand and ...well, something happened but I am not sure what specifically. I mean I liked talking with her and found her very interesting, but I have that with a few other people as well so I'm not sure what the difference with her was. I am not sure if I actually fit under demi entirely but for now I am sticking with it.

[Siggy]

I wouldn't take the concepts of primary and secondary attraction too seriously. They're there to help you, but it's not like anyone knows that these are "real" categories. Primary and secondary attraction could be defined in different ways (and have been defined in different ways), and you just pick the definition that is most useful to you.

I've usually seen primary attraction defined as attraction based on immediately available information, such as looks, voice, smell, mannerisms, and so forth. I don't think this would include personality. But you could also define primary attraction as based on outward qualities, as opposed to secondary attraction, which is based on your emotional connection and history.

The wiki appears to use the former definition on this page, and the latter definition on this page. Go figure.

I would consider being attracted to people's voice and mannerisms as a form of primary attraction, though I guess that information is not immediately available if you're meeting people on internet dating sites.

[Siggy]

"persona" is an individual's public mask, or "face" (a word from oriental languages like Chinese, Japanese, or Korean that also doesn't translate well).

"ainima" is ones spirit, or essence, and can only be seen by the person themselves since only they have an internal point of view.

Is it possible that primary attraction is to someone's "persona", while secondary attraction is to someone's "anima"?

I don't think this is a very good definition, because it is a little unflattering to people who experience mostly primary attraction. Are they only attracted to a mask, rather than to spirit? I think we should strive for descriptions that are either neutral, or bring out the positive aspects of all different sorts of people.

[The Bearded One]

"persona" is an individual's public mask, or "face" (a word from oriental languages like Chinese, Japanese, or Korean that also doesn't translate well).

"ainima" is ones spirit, or essence, and can only be seen by the person themselves since only they have an internal point of view.

Is it possible that primary attraction is to someone's "persona", while secondary attraction is to someone's "anima"?

I don't think this is a very good definition, because it is a little unflattering to people who experience mostly primary attraction. Are they only attracted to a mask, rather than to spirit? I think we should strive for descriptions that are either neutral, or bring out the positive aspects of all different sorts of people.

I didn't realize or intend that my post would be seen as rude or offensive to anyone. I'm sorry.

I have little or no intuitive grasp of etiquette, social custom, or cultural convention. I have to rationally analyze every situation I experience in order to apply these concepts. I mistakenly assumed that discussion of close personal relationships, social interaction, and small group dynamics was acceptable, rather than only the neutral and positive aspects thereof. I will attempt to self-censor my posts, and remove any portion that could possibly be seen as negative in any way by anyone in the future.

[Siggy]

I didn't realize or intend that my post would be seen as rude or offensive to anyone. I'm sorry.

I have little or no intuitive grasp of etiquette, social custom, or cultural convention. I have to rationally analyze every situation I experience in order to apply these concepts. I mistakenly assumed that discussion of close personal relationships, social interaction, and small group dynamics was acceptable, rather than only the neutral and positive aspects thereof. I will attempt to self-censor my posts, and remove any portion that could possibly be seen as negative in any way by anyone in the future.

I don't think you were being rude or offensive, I just disagreed that it was a good way to describe demisexuality. It's okay to propose a new angle on demisexuality, even if ultimately it doesn't work for some reason.

[MiniLo]

I think there's a kind of outward personality that one can have based on the situation and people they're with, and have that just be a piece of a much fuller, much more complex personality that requires history and connection to grasp. (Or sometimes that outward, situational personality is a facade.) Sort of like code-switching in linguistics.

If I experience primary attraction, it's kink attraction. Meaning, I pick up more on their movements and presence, sometimes how they speak (not necessarily voice, though), and sometimes I'll read that person as being attractive from a sexually submissive POV. Intellectually it doesn't really translate to much, but if I had to put it into words, it would probably be more "they might be willing to do things to me (not even sexual things) and be a boss and not an asshole about it". Aesthetics factors into this a bit (what are they wearing, how are they carrying themselves), but it only ever serves the kink attraction and is rarely ever a thing on its own.

And, in the tradition of Michael Palin: sexual attraction "is right out!"

[The Bearded One]

I think there's a kind of outward personality that one can have based on the situation and people they're with, and have that just be a piece of a much fuller, much more complex personality that requires history and connection to grasp.

Exactly so. The first is "persona". The second is "anima" showing through "persona". Since "seeing" "anima" requires an internal point of view, no one else can actually see it. It's why we are all alone.

If I experience primary attraction, it's kink attraction.

I think most youth and adults have a kink attraction for copulation. They're sure not relating to the "whole person" on a 3rd date. :)

I hope I'm not being too unflattering.