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What is 'Sexual attraction'?


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WhenSummersGone

I define sexual attraction as the desire to have sexual relations/intercourse with another person. If that is lacking, then I would call one an Ace.

No, I wouldn't call that sexual attraction. What you described is what I'd call sexual desire.

If it's with a specific person then I would consider that sexual attraction, but if it's just anyone I agree that it's just sexual desire for sex.

It's always sexual desire, in both situations. If it's with a specific person then that's attraction directing the desire at that person.

I agree. I always need someone specific or I just take care of my sexual desire by myself.

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Could "sexual attraction" be a series of mental/physical reactions combined together, and most people experience all, a small number of people experience none, and a small number of people experience some, but not all?

Do I make any sense at all?

You make complete sense, and honestly I think that the interplay of reactions you described is something sorely missing in the "sexual attraction" definition of asexuality. The insistence upon the official definition being based upon the absence of sexual attraction is clearly lacking, seeing as many people here who identify in some way with asexuality frequently try to suss out what EXACTLY their feelings are(are they...GASP...bisexual attraction?!). This has led to a really strained, frayed definition of sexual attraction which alternately is separate from sexual desire, or synonymous with it. Some people classify an attraction based upon physical attributes to be sexual, others call it 'aesthetic attraction' if thoughts of sex are not directly included. Of course, then what about sexuals who don't necessarily undress people with their eyes every time they're attracted to someone?

What gets lost in these pages upon pages of the blind leading the blind in pinning down an exact definition of sexual attraction, is whether the definition of asexuality even works in the first place. I don't feel it does, and threads like this are evidence of that. I think it would be far more useful to look at the way different aspects of sexuality interact. From my vantage point, it seems that what truly separates aces from sexuals isn't one aspect of sexuality(attraction, desire, arousal, etc.), but how they interact. In sexuals, there is SOME sort of interplay between all of these aspects. One may not always trigger another, nor may the third one be a frequent or important aspect of ones sexuality; but they all exist, and interact with each other, in some capacity. Most asexuals, however, seem to experience a fundamental disconnect between the same attributes. Whether that is because one doesn't experience sexual attraction, or because one almost NEVER experiences sexual desire as a result of sexual attraction, is immaterial. The point is the presence of a SOME SORT of fundamental disconnect between SOME aspects of their 'sexuality.'

While I'm not entirely sure how to succinctly phrase that, I feel it's a better starting off point than the assumption that asexuality is defined by the lack of sexual attraction and only that. It covers the majority of asexual-identified folks without having to be twisted around to do so, and also gets straight to the heart of the major difference between sexuals and asexuals. (Slightly off-topic side note: I feel it's analogous to the difference between defining a trans person as someone who experiences genital dysphoria, and defining it as a person who does not identify fully with their assigned gender. One describes a small subset of the community to the T, while excluding others; the other describes the fundamental experience of being trans shared by nearly all trans folk. )

Thank you for this! This helped me in my own thinking and with figuring myself out.

I am terribly confused about sexual attraction and having read this thread... I am now even more confused ^_^

I came here because I identify with the asexual label, but not so much with it's definition as I've found it online, because it involves such a strong emphasis on a lack of 'sexual attraction.'

Sexual attraction is a very confusing topic for me, and so far I've not been able to untangle it for myself (Do I experience it? Do I not? Does it matter?). Therefore, a definition of sexual or asexual that is based on the presence or absence - respectively - of sexual attraction is entirely useless for me. It gets me nothing, except more confusion.

How, then, can I identify with the asexual and/or grey-asexual label? This is a question I keep asking myself, and the above has given me somewhat of an answer; it's because I have an intense disconnect between sexual arousal, sexual desire, sexual attraction, and other people.

I do have sexual desire and I enjoy sexual acts. I just enjoy them by myself and alone. Only by myself. Once other, flesh-and-blood, people are involved, it's no longer enjoyable for me. (Not to be confused with autosexual; I don't have a sexual desire for myself, I just only experience and indulge in sexual desire when I'm by myself)

Based on this fact, you might wonder why I am so confused about sexual attraction and whether or not I have it towards people.

In one sense, you can correctly say that I have no sexual attraction towards people, as I am absolutely, totally, entirely, just not at all sexually attracted to people that I know personally; I don't want to have sex with them, I don't find them 'sexy', they don't produce any sexual desire in me, they don't create any kind of sexual feelings or fantasies.

(Side note: they can sometimes produce the physical reactions of sexual arousal in me, but that is a very disconnected feeling, which to me is clearly biological in nature. It only happens when they touch me in certain ways and there is no mental arousal, only a physical one. It goes something like: Brain: "Hey, body, are you getting aroused? How odd..." Body: "I think maybe I'm aroused? This is weird, what's happening here... Can we go take a shower? We feel dirty".)

In another sense, however, you can argue that I do feel sexual attraction towards people because my sexual fantasies involve having sex with them - and those fantasies are generally the only way I can reach sexual release. These are just never people I've met and often times these people don't even have faces.

When these people do have faces, they tend to be actors. This does not mean that I actually want to have sex with this actor (I don't). If I met him (it's generally a 'him') in real life, the fantasies would almost certainly stop. Now, I can't be 100% sure on this as I've never met Hugh Jackman, but it's a well-educated guess ;)

If I see an actor that I think is good-looking, funny, smart, some-other-possitive-attribute, I consciously place him in my sexual fantasies. He doesn't spontaneously produce such a fantasy, nor does he produce sexual desire. I just find it nice to add him to my fantasies. (Note that I am using the term 'fantasy' to mean a scenario played out in my mind purely for entertainment, not a scenario I would ever want to act out)

And here comes my confusion: Does this mean that I am sexually attracted to him? (And thus that I am sexual, if we go by the standard definition of sexual?) Does this, furthermore, mean that I am sexually attracted to people in a broader sense?

Am I sexual because I fantasize about sex with people (and sometimes these fantasies involve specific people)? Eventhough I don't actually want to have sex with them IRL?

Is fantasizing about sex with people the same as having a sexual attraction towards them? Even if this fantasy is explicitly not one you want to act out?

Can one be sexually aroused by people (in a mental, intentional sense), without being sexually attracted to them?

All these questions just doesn't seem to have a proper answer - at least not one I've heard so far that makes sense for me personally.

I can't answer the question 'am I sexually attracted to people'? And so, if I went by the standard definitions of sexual/asexual, I wouldn't be able to identify with either.

However, when I ask myself 'am I sexual?', my answer is 'no.' I am not sexual. Why? Because for me the concepts of sexual desire, arousal and attraction are 'all messed up.' There is a disconnect between my sexual desires, the things I find arousing and sexually attractive, and other people.

I am never going to find 'that one special person' with whom I will want to have sex, because that's simply not how I'm wired. I'm wired for wanting sexual release, but not for wanting sex itself and certainly not for wanting sexual interactions with others. To me, that makes me an asexual or grey-asexual person, regardless of my sexual attractive confusion.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I want to throw this onto the table... (sorry if it has been said before...)

What about sexual attraction in a social context?

Let's take as an example the blonde from original post. Society has determined what being pretty and sexy and attractive is, and she does cover those deffinitions. I know, therefore, that most men or women find her sexualy attractive, so, since the majority of people find her attractive, then she IS sexually attractive. Not to me though...

What I am trying to say is: Sexual attraction is more a social thing than a psychological thing. Society taught me what is attractive and I recognize someone as sexually attractive, yet I don't feel a desire for her. So, then, attraction is a social issue while desire is a personal issue.

You can't define sexual attraction in a global way because every community has it's own preconception of sexual attraction, and sexual desire is harder to define because no one can tell what other people feel and think.

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WhenSummersGone

I can agree with that^. What society has told me is sexually attractive isn't, to me anyways. I've noticed at an early age that I can tell when someone is good looking but it stops at that.

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Notte stellata

What I am trying to say is: Sexual attraction is more a social thing than a psychological thing. Society taught me what is attractive and I recognize someone as sexually attractive, yet I don't feel a desire for her. So, then, attraction is a social issue while desire is a personal issue.

I don't really agree with that. Recognizing someone as sexually attractive because they fit in society's standard doesn't necessarily mean you're sexually attracted to them. Being attracted to someone means you feel a pull toward them, not only intellectually knowing they're attractive. I suppose some sexuals can also recognize conventionally attractive people without being attracted to them, if their personal standard for sexual attractiveness is different from the conventional one.

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  • 4 weeks later...
the bumbling rotifer

I wasn't quite sure where to post this, but it sort of fits in here.

It took me a couple of months after first hearing about asexuality to realise that it applies to me, and It's taking me a long time and a lot of reading and though to come to terms with it.

The main reason I'm finding it so difficult to accept is because I never knew that there was this whole extra dimension to life, this 'sexual attraction' that I don't experience. I mean, ok, I realised guys must experience sexual attraction, and some women, but I always assumed that many if not most women only experienced it very rarely, to people they had a strong emotional bond to, or not at all (in other words I assumed most women were somewhere on the asexual spectrum).

In order, therefore, to confirm that I am in fact different from the majority of women, I've started looking into what 'normal' women experience in terms of attraction.

I thought I would post this in case anyone else is having the same issue as I am.

So far I've found this to be a rather illuminating link: http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts14267291.aspx

I'll add more links to this post if I find any.

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Many of the sexual girls I knowt have really meant it ( I think), some have even sought physical comfort from their boyfriends/husbands best friend. But they could have been doing it to validate themselves as a person.

Though I have been with straight/gay girls and boys and seen them ogle over someone who is fit and they have all looked at the same person, whereas I just saw a sea of people and no one that stood out.

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the bumbling rotifer

Thanks cakey. You're right - sexual attraction must be both real and strong, given the fact that people do it in spite of the hurt that it causes to their families (affairs), their careers (sex scandals), victims (of sex abuse / rape) and themselves (homosexual people pre-societal acceptance).

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"The bumbling rotifer" - I really find your post resonating way too much with me, because I haven't really fully accepted being asexual myself yet. But yes. Everything you're saying rings true and WOW that forum is scarily enlightening. Thanks for the link. ;)

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the bumbling rotifer

Hi Emily,

it's good to know I'm not the only one finding it hard to accept that most people are experiencing something that I'm not.

I've come out to a few people this last week, and the two women didn't really get it - they said that I just hadn't met the right guy yet, and how they were never attracted to guys until they met so-and-so who they are currently with.

I think one might be demi/gray, but I find it hard to believe they both are.

I wonder if women just hide their sexual attraction because it is frowned upon by society, and talk about their romantic attractions instead.

It is making it really hard for me to know for sure that I am different from other people.

According to their advice, I should just wait until I find the right guy, but how many guys do I need to meet before I'm allowed to accept the fact that I'm not attracted to any of them? And how long do I date randomly chosen guys to whom I am not attracted before I'm allowed to conlcude that I'm not going to develop attraction to them?

Even if eventually I do find a guy I'm attracted to that would only make me either demi or gray sexual, which is on the asexual spectrum anyway. So why don't they accept me wanting to identify as ace? I won't let the label stop me from acting if one day I do find someone I'm into, but it will relieve the pressure I've been putting myself under to find a soulmate and dispel the shame I've been feeling for never having had sex.

Er, rant over. Sorry it's been going a bit off-topic.

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Yeah; I don't know how old you are, The bumbling rotifer, but I'm 23 and I am also still a virgin. In every sense of the word, as I've never even mastrubated... :P I started online dating when I was 22 after I graduated college. I asked a guy out to junior prom when I was 17 but he turned me down so I didn't go on my first date till I was 22 lol.

Jay, the guy I met on an online dating site at age 22 was the first guy I ever kissed. Kissing him was a big letdown for me, as I felt no pleasure/nothing positive from it. No "chemistry". I thougth about if I found this guy, Jay, to be attractive. He was... not ugly. I struggled to decide what I thought. Maybe if I found someone I was sexually attracted to I'd be able to enjoy kissing more. But I found this thread and one other one here on the AVEN forums about "What is sexual attraction?" and realized I had no idea what sexual attraction really was and I had never experienced it.

I did think early on that I had a preference for dark haired guys over blonds... for insance, in the characters I had crushes on in my favorite TV shows... but I was aware early on that I was falling not really for the actor and not really for their looks, but more for the character and personality, and I've since found some blonder attractive guys on these shows I've liked a lot too. It's really all about the personality for me haha.

I am a heteroromantic.

Possibly bi-romantic, I'm not sure, but I think I've only really had romantic crushes on guys. I feel excited like butterflies/heart beating a little faster/smiley at the thought of dating them or them liking me back in a vague romantic way. I am into lesbian/femslash fandom things personally (I'm a major fangirl - I edit fanvideos and write fanfiction and stuff and most of my stuff is heterosexual but I tend to like lesbian things on my TV shows more than male homosexuality and stuff, but I like both a little). I think it's liking it in a selfish context like I can relate to the femininity stuff, not that I want to have sex with a girl.

But the whole "wanting to have sex" concept is foreign to me, so that's part of why I'm so... confused. :P I have friendships with fellow girls that are great haha!

I think I'm hetero, and want romance in my life... it's just whether I'm sexual or asexal or demi or what that is confusing me.

Otharennaur & WhenSummersGone mention knowing what makes people attractive, intellectually. What society deems sexually attractive. And I recognize that too. That's part of my problem. That's part of what makes it so confusing.

I didn't like kissing Jay. I did like him kissing my cheek when he wished me goodbye on our dates. But idk if it could really be classified as sexual. Feeling sexually aroused in my gential area of my body? What? That happens to women? I'm shocked lol. I think what I was feeling was happy that a nice guy liked me. Feeling somewhat intimate with a guy because he's touching me - kissing my cheek is physical contact as is holding my hand. But there was nothing sexual being felt there.

Jay ultimately ended things with me after our third date. I had thought things were going fine and wanted to give kissing more of a chance to see if maybe over time I'd find myself liking it. We really had only tried kissing on the streets of Washington D.C. the night of my second date, after I was insanely exhausted and actually fell asleep during the movie we went to together. I was completely out of shape and we'd walked for HOURS after I was sleep deprived from going to a sleepover with my old high school friends the night before and driving an hour and a half home that morning, when I very rarely drive, so the act of driving also stresses me out. He tried kissing a few times, standing up, when I was the most exhausted I had been in ages.

On our next date after that, we were in a rush - we were on a date on a Tuesday night after his last college final exam and we went out to dinner then went back to his place. He wanted to show me the old movie "My Fair Lady" and that was a really long movie and he wanted to finish it before I had to go back to catch a metro train before the metro closed - and it closes early weeknights. He tried kissing me when I first got into his apartment WHILE I WAS TRYING TO TAKE OFF MY SHOES. My calves of my legs were also pressed up awkwardly against a chair as I was standing there taking off my shoes. So I akwardly pulled myself away from him and didn't really let him kiss me in that moment, then apologized. He kinda maybe wanted to kiss me WHILE we were watching the movie, but he legitimately wanted me to appreciate the film, so being distracted from it with a kissing session seemed like a weird way to get a movie watched to me. I suggested pausing it. He worried we wouldn't be able to finish the film in time if we did that. I said I wouldn't mind finishing in on our next/fourth date but he didn't like that idea. So we didn't kiss.

We left our third date planning to make plans for a fourth date after he came back from a trip to visit his extended family in India. But a month later when he arrived home he essentially broke up with me. He cited a lack of chemistry as a reason. So I figured MAYBE he had "not enjoyed kissing" me as much as I had "not enjoyed kissing" him.

I went out on two dates with this guy Thomas this year at age 23 and did not really find him attractive at all either. Overweight, balding already in his twenties, etc. I knew he wasn't traditionally attractive for sure. He was quite short too and in fact was worried even after I agreed to go out with him via the online site where we met that I maybe would change my mind once I saw how short he was. But height was never an issue for me. I feel like I'd be interested in dating a guy suffering from dawrfism even, or someone confined to a wheelchair. For me it's all about personality.

Still, I wanted him to kiss me. I was afraid to try initiating a kiss myself because of my extremely limited prior experience, the fact that I'm a girl and I *think* gender norms dictate guys generally kiss the girl (although I am all for gender equality and ignoring stereotypes and norms... so idk). He didn't try kissing me despite me explicitly telling him as our first date was approaching its end that he could. And me lingering awkwardly near him at the end of our second date. He didn't do it. He did some weird things that were kind of a turn off to me on our second date too... he was late to both of our dates, etc. He didn't initate setting up a third date and I let my potential relationship with him go.

But more recently, at the beginning of August, I'm still 23, I met Miles online and we hit it off online quickly and I actually asked him out on the first day of us messaging back and forth. The other two guys I went out with only after like weeks of online messaging and them asking me out at that point.

I liked Miles more than these other two guys before even meeting him in person. I liked him more after meeting him too. I liked him a lot. His personality meshed well with mine. I don't know.

After our first real date/second time meeting in person (first time was just taking a walk around my neighborhood and playing Scattegories at my kitchen table. Second time/first "real date" was a matinee movie and then lunch) I kind of hoped he might kiss me. After the date he texted me and said something along the lines of, "I'm sorry if you wanted me to kiss you or something. I'm new to all of this."

I said it was fine, but that yeah, I actually had been hoping for that.

He texted back that he'd never kissed anyone before. But now he was all excited and couldn't stop thinking about kissing me. I mentioned that I had barely kissed anyone and I too was looking forward to it.

Sitting on his couch watching TV on another date maybe 4-5 days later, during a commercial, he mentioned wanting to try kissing. I accepted the request/thought sure, we should try it.

It was... lackluster again for me. He said he enjoyed it, though. He thought it was quite pleasant. We tried a few more times and I was always the one to pull away first. I kept hearing the audio from the TV commercials. I kept... being essentially bored or something. I admitted to him that I feared I may be asexual but hoped I was just demisexual and explained what they meant. I explained that kissing him wasn't bad... it just felt like... no chemistry at all. Kind of like what I imagined kissing someone of the wrong gender would feel like. Although I wouldn't know, lol. He was understanding.

We continued to go out and kept trying kissing once every idk, 3 dates? It felt the same for me each time. Most of the time we just cuddled and watched TV or sometimes did other things. We enjoy texting a lot and hanging out a lot. I asked him if he wanted to officially be my boyfriend, like announcing "in a relationship" status on Facebook lol. He did. :D

I talked to some of my online friends about my lack of enjoying kissing him.

I have this one Jehovah's Witness friend who said she never kissed her first boyfriend, they just dated for like a year then broke up. Then he started dating someone else, and she got really jealous and was convinced she was in love with him. She poured her heart and soul out to him in a tearful speech and he told her "I'm going to kiss you now" and then kissed her - she was age 27 btw - and it felt like fireworks for her. They got back together and she dated him for too long, trying to get that magical feeling back, and focusing too much on physical stuff so overlooking personality incompatiblities with him.

The guy she ended up marrying at age 29 - they agreed to date with no kissing/nothing physical until they decided they were sure they could spend their lfie together. When he proposed to her, he kissed her for the first time, and they were in front of their parents and stuff so she said that environment led to no real pleasure coming from the kiss. But it was wonderful that he proposed.

Kissing got better with time. They first tried having sex on their honeymoon, and it was only after MANY attempts that they successfully found sex to be... mindblowingly awesome, as an understatement - her words. She had feared before that point that they might never be able to really have sex. They struggled a bit before getting to the awesome place.

I talked to another friend of mine from Finland. She's an atheist, this ridiculous Jehovah's Witness no sex till marriage culture is not a factor, etc. You know. ;)

She told me:

"I'd probably not enjoy kissing so soon after meeting for the first time but it's kinda tricky. If you wait too long it'll get weird xD I've only enjoyed kissing two guys, my ex after the initial awkwardness but before things started to go wrong (somewhere in that lovely middle period haha) and then this other guy who's still the only man I've loved. And that was like a year and half after knowing him. Umm yeah, so it's hard to say so soon. I hope things work out for you, you really seem to enjoy spending time together:)"

I am just... confused about everything. I really enjoy spending time with Miles and having text conversations with him and all of that.

We tried recently kissing each other's necks to see what we thought of that. We both verbally wondered what we could do to make things less awkward. I thought maybe just the closer we got to nudity, the more we "just go for it", and push past the awkwardness... maybe it'd be good. He suggested doing it right then and there and I said no... I wasn't quite ready for that, plus my dad was gonna maybe come home at any minute. I said maybe next time.

We planned for the next Friday, about a week from then, to... try something with nudity.

That was... this past week. Friday the 13th lol was supposed to be when we lost our virginities with each other. We're both atheists, not supersticious or anything...

I spent the week obsessing about it. Considering trying masturbating for the first time but still never really doing it because I have no urge. I read stuff here on this AVEN forum and found a link to Scarleteen.

This site was amazing and addicting to read page after page on. I'd already been quite well educated about sex stuff, sex-poitivity, Laci Green's videos on YouTube, this:

etc. But Scarleteen was a great new resource to find.

I found pages like this relevant to me:

What if I never want or feel ready for sex?

http://www.scarleteen.com/article/advice/what_if_i_never_want_or_feel_ready_for_sex

and

http://www.scarleteen.com/article/boyfriend/drivers_ed_for_the_sexual_superhighway_navigating_consent

:P Even:

http://www.scarleteen.com/article/advice/wheres_my_sex_drive_driven_off_to

and

http://www.scarleteen.com/article/pink/an_immodest_proposal

I mentioned to yet another online friend of mine - a woman who's only a year or two older than me, I think - that I was freaking out over the possibility that I might lose my virginity this week and obsessively reading Scarleteen articles. :P

She replied:

"I understand, I stressed over it majorly before my first time as well until I felt comfortable enough with the idea to do it."

I then said:

Yeah. ;) I just don't have enough of a (or any?!) sex drive or something. That's my main reason for my freaking out. Idk if you remember my tagged video, but... um yeah. :P

I'm a little insecure when it comes to my own body image and my inexperience level but overall I think I can reign those insecurities in and be comfortable enough with it.

I want to go for it, intellectually. I'm curious. I like my boyfriend a lot. I think I'm comfortable enough and prepared and mature enough and all of that. I am 23 years old, after all. :P

I've been watching Laci Green's videos for years, which are similar to that site in a lot of ways.

This is one of hers... kind of applies to me haha. :P

23 YEAR OLD VIRGIN?...

(And my tagged video just explained that I worried I might be asexual. It was a video I uploaded to my YouTube channel. We're both vidders.)

And she said:

I felt the same way throughout all of high school when all my friends were having sex and I wasn't the least bit ready. I felt no desire to do anything other than kiss until I had sex when I was about 20'ish with my current boyfriend who I've been with for 5 years, then the more we did it the more I developed a sex drive over time.

Once you grow more comfortable with the person your with and doing more than kissing you'll probably develop more of a sex drive.

I found a few too many of the "non-consent" things in those two charts on the "Driver's Ed for the Sexual Superhighway: Navigating Consent" page applying to me. I was at the "I'm not sure if I'm ready" stage, the "I want to, but" type of thing. I want to have sex - intellectually because I'm curious about what it's like, but not because of any sexual desire. I want to try getting naked with Miles but i'm also kinda REALLY uncomfortable with that idea. I'm torn. I'm confused. I "want to want" sex more than I want sex itself.

I told Miles about my thoughts and feelings and even linked to these pages (except not the first one) for him.

He understood and we just watched TV and cuddled on Friday.

But... this is where I'm at. I'm lost. The girls I'm talking to all kinda say "what I'm - EmilyK here is - feeling is normal." That this type of uncertainty and low sex drive is not asexuality, it's called being too early in a relationship or still being a virgin so not being able to think of sex in the right way or stuff like that.

And I just... get more and more confused about what I am and where I stand on this whole spectrum.

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the bumbling rotifer

I completely relate to where you are, Emily. It's as though the sexual people I know are saying 'no, you're not different, you just need to give it time / try harder', and yet everything I've read in the asexual community suggests I am asexual.

I suppose part of the issue is that most of the people who are graysexual or demisexual identify as being sexual. When you are single and seeking a partner, the experience of the graysexual and demisexual will be the same as that of the asexual - but eventually the graysexual may find someone they are attracted to, and eventually the demisexual will develop a strong enough emotional bond to be sexually attracted. So a lot of people who identify as sexual will have had the same experience of no sexual attraction as we experience, and they assume that this is 'normal'.

I think maybe I'm intimidated by more sexual people anyway, so I tend to hang out with people who are probably towards the grey/demi end of the spectrum anyway. So my friends just don't get asexuality.

The two people who I've come out to who are pretty sexual have actually been much more accepting of my asexuality.

Here's a different way to look at it: if in the days before homosexuality was accepted, a woman came out as a lesbian to her female friend, that friend might say 'oh, I've felt attracted to women before too, don't worry, it doesn't mean anything - it's just a phase. Soon you'll be atttracted to guys and find out you're really straight'. And why did the friend react like that? Because she was bisexual, but identified as heterosexual. She assumed her lesbian friend was the same as she was.

So yeah, according to this metaphor, we might be lesbians (ace) or we might be bi (grey), but were sure as hell aint straight (sexual). It makes sense to identify as lesbian (ace) until we're attracted to a guy, at which point we can identify as bi (grey), if that ever happens.

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I think that actually makes COMPLETE sense. ;) Thanks for helping make this all seem a little more... understandable to me.

Yeah. I might be demisexual, and a lot of people might be in the world. I too probably relate to the "I think maybe I'm intimidated by more sexual people anyway" thing you said, and so my friends end up just being demisexual folk.

Just the idea that there are both sterotypically sexual guys and stereostypically [demi- although they don't realize that's the name for it] sexual women, BUT ALSO non-stereotypical type demisexual guys and [non-demi] sexual women and everything in between including complete ASEXUALITY on that one end of the spectrum - society doesn't seem to want to accept that. People want to think all males, gay or straight even, have the same level of sex drive/lack of a need for emotional connection/etc. And all women something else - perhaps some studies think it's all demisexuality even. But there is VARIETY and we have a lot of differences. There might be more demisexual women than demisexual men in the world. There may not be. We need to do a lot more research probably before we really can determine the answer. but either way, there's some women who enjoy meaningless sex a lot etc.

ALSO mastrubation AND how much you like or don't like porn VARIES regardless of which level of sexuality you identify with. And this idea is difficult even for me to grasp, let alone society at large.

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But until I feel sexual desire/attraction for the first time, I am asexual. If I ever do start feeling sexual stuff, I'll be grey-A or Demi. If not, I just... am asexual. If I stop trying to get to the sexual place... I'll be officially accepting fully that I'm asexual. EVEN IF I might have one day realized I was demi if I kept trying harder, if I stop trying, I'll never know. And I just am and always will be asexual.

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  • 1 month later...
anon_anonymous

just checking - but you can have sexual attraction without desire, right?

what about sexual attraction that you don't identify as attraction?

i have v low levels of desire, but am pretty sure am normally sexually attracted to people. it just doesn't - flower, so to speak. but wikipedia says

Sexual attraction is attraction on the basis of sexual desire

so how is it possible to be attracted without desire??

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just checking - but you can have sexual attraction without desire, right?

what about sexual attraction that you don't identify as attraction?

i have v low levels of desire, but am pretty sure am normally sexually attracted to people. it just doesn't - flower, so to speak. but wikipedia says

Sexual attraction is attraction on the basis of sexual desire

so how is it possible to be attracted without desire??

Because "sexual attraction" isn't a real thing IMO. Attraction is attraction. People call it sexual attraction if sex is what you desire with the people you are attracted to. If you don't desire sex then people call it something else, but attraction is still attraction.

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just checking - but you can have sexual attraction without desire, right?

what about sexual attraction that you don't identify as attraction?

i have v low levels of desire, but am pretty sure am normally sexually attracted to people. it just doesn't - flower, so to speak. but wikipedia says

Sexual attraction is attraction on the basis of sexual desire

so how is it possible to be attracted without desire??

I'm not sure that you can define sexual attraction in a fashion that eliminates it from some form of sexual desire. Desire in this sense, of course, does not mean you would actually have sex with the object of your attraction were they willing; its more of an urge or drive that leads your mind to think in that direction. The attraction you feel may not necessarily be sexual in nature; it may be aesthetic or sensual. When you look at someone who you are attracted to, what is the nature of the attraction? Does said attraction lead you to think sexual thoughts? Or is it more of an appreciation of how they look something akin to looking at a beautiful piece of art?

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anon_anonymous

yes, actually it is like an artwork... but it's not a simple response, certainly not sheer lack of interest in the person's attractiveness.

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Ignore the newbie post if you want. I just wanted to say to everyone who posted here, this has been really helpful. I have one of those minds (unless I'm the only one) that's really good at connecting all kinds of random, seemingly irrelevant details and examples... though it takes a while. I have thought for... years... that I might be asexual, at least to a degree, but I didn't know what that entailed.

The people in this thread are giving all sorts of different opinions, and after reading (the 1st 6 pages of) it, I kinda know the "official" definition. What I got from this, though, was more like: "this sounds like me," "this doesn't," "that doesn't sound right imo," "that's phrased very well," etc. Like someone said, there won't be one definition that everyone can accept. Reading all this did help me figure out the way I am, though, and even facilitated helping me sort out at least one personal issue that's had me confused for months. Do I have it all sorted out? Does anyone? :P Rhetorical questions.

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks. And I'm probably not the only one who, while still confused, is at least more confident in what I know, so thanks on their behalf, too. (Sorry if that sounded grandiose. I actually mean it, though.)

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I just had a convo about this with my best friend today :D

She tried to explain sexual desire to me except i asked what the difference was between sexual desire and romantic feelings. (I'm most likely Aromantic, and wanted to understand romantic feelings). So here I'll just quote her XD.

"Sexual desire would be seeing any yummy food and wanting to eat it, while romantic desire would be a favourite food that you love for lots of reasons"

Ya she explained it to me using food but dont judge im a big foodie :P

Hope this helps XD

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  • 4 weeks later...
alli.efeelink

I really like the topic. It has much significance. I think if someone attracts me in mind, like "I really want to know what he likes or what he hates", "I care him so much", "I'd like to be his friend" ,then he maybe attracts me in sex. Physical desire is not the true sex , I guess. . I think the perfect sex is to make love, and to satisfy the physical desire is not the true sex.

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  • 2 months later...

*I would love if someone could help me a bit here:)*

I've always just assumed that the attraction I feel towards people is what is called "sexual" attraction, but I recently discovered the terms aesthetic and romantic attraction, which I think may fit what I feel much better. For example, when I see someone I think is very attractive, I never fantasize about having sex with them, instead I literally get a strong urge to draw them XD (and I often do lol). But at the same time, I don't have an aversion to the idea of sex; I occasionally look at porn and masturbate, but never to anyone "real", just an anonymous person who I "love" emotionally. If I ever have a flash of someone real when I'm doing it, it weirds me out and I feel like I am somehow violating them. But I am still unsure because I've never been in a romantic or sexual relationship, even though I'm in college (never even been on a date). The closest things that might describe be may be gray-asexuality or demisexuality (because I think I would like sex if it was with someone I really, really trusted emotionally). Also, I've only really had one full-blown crush in my life, and honestly my strongest desire was to hug him....but I doubt myself because I was in 9th grade. I've never had strong enough of a relationship to know I know labels don't define me, but I am curious as to what an outsider might consider me based on what I have written here.

(I copied this from another site I wrote on, but got no answer there yet....didn't feel like re-writing it)

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This is one of the things I've had trouble rectifying with trying to determine where I personally fall on the scale.

I identify way more strongly with the asexual viewpoint in the original post, but there have been two specific instances in my life where I identified with the sexual viewpoint. The catch is that both of them were in a romantic relationship with someone I had known very intimately in a platonic sense for at least months before any kind of romantic or sexual interest developed. So, I've come to identify as demiromantic/demisexual, but the POV for demisexuality in the original post feels just as alien to me. When I look at a woman like in the picture, I'm not thinking "Wow, she's attractive... but I'd tap that if I got to know it," I'm thinking "Huh. I guess I can kind of see why a sexual person finds her attractive, but not interested."

I haven't had a chance to talk with other gray-a or demis about their perspectives, but it's confusing enough that it makes me second guess my identification on the ace scale at times.

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Looly & Empyreus, you both sound like you fit demisexiual to me. Demisexuality is even more confusing to get clear definitions on than asexuality because it's a nuanced subset of our umbrella "asexual spectrum", whereas "being 100% asexual" is the extreme, the simple "no sexual attraction".

From what I gather, most allosexual people (aka people not on the asexual spectrum) have, since the onset of puberty, looked at certain other people around them and found their thoughts and/or physical bodily reactions shifting to something they consider "sexual". For most people, this is not overwhelming - they can still get a good education from a teacher they find "sexy", avoid asking out the random stranger on the street, and they don't jump their sibling's fiance(e), unable to have a civil conversation with them and rather purely thinking about kissing them and eventually ripping their clothes off. No. Most people are able to react quietly and internally to the "ooo. Sexy person," stimuli, then move on and successfully interact with them on a non-sexual level that is appropriate.

If asked out by someone who they did not once think of as "Sexy", they often will be taken aback, because all they think of this person is as "a friend". They know the difference instantly between someone who they have the potential to want to sleep with and the person they don't. Their criteria for dismissing a person is based on sexual attractiveness and nothing else. SOME allsoexuals will want sex with anyone of the correct gender badly enough that they'll ignore the lack of sexual attraction they feel or even train themselves to find this less-ideal-looking-person to seem sexy. They may have aspects of what demisexuals can experience - they may be able to find the person sexy after getting to know them better and finding personality aspects "Sexy". But the difference is that they already intrinsically knew what being sexually attracted to certain people meant, even before getting to know thi current boyfriend/girlfriend of theirs very well.

Feeling a deep desire to draw people? It's odd to me, as I can't relate. I would call it aesthetic attraction, sure. I can't relate to that as much as I can't relate to a strong desire to touch someone (the way you might have a strong desire to pet a really soft-looking kitten), which I read about here as a form of sensual attraction: http://theacetheist.wordpress.com/2013/09/29/differentiating-types-of-attraction/ And I also, equally, can't relate to sexual attraction. I don't even know what it'd feel like to decide I want to have sex with someone.

What I can do is objectively judge if someone is attractive by society's standards - essentially compare their facial and body features to other people. But personally, in terms of how much I want to draw them (none, I feel 0 desire to do that), or have sex with them even in any hypothetical fway, even only in my masturbation fantasies type scenerio (none, I also feel 0 desire to do that), I realize I don't really experience these forms of attraction.

What I do experience is picking up on a tidbit of their personality, and becoming curious and interested in getting to know them better. I have even fallen in love, once. But my boyfriend wanted to have sex with me, and I wanted sex to not exist so that we could just be content doing anything/everything except making out/sexual things.

I think for a demisexual, they can relate to both side in some ways. They don't necessarily find random actors sexy when flipping channels on their TV, but when an actor plays a character who you start to fall in love with, then you start to realize you react to the idea of them in a "they're sexy" kind of way. Or you're on the gray-A scale because famous actors are the only people you'e ever felt sexual attraction to without knowing anything about them or a character they play, but regular everyday people do nothing for you, and you realize you're different than your allosexual friends.

Demisexuals relate to the asexual experience of finding no one sexy when they look around themselves, but then find themselves relating to what allosexual people experience as "sexual attraction toward a particular person" between a person they have formed a close platonic bond with.

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  • 4 weeks later...
Feral_Sophisticate

The subliminal mind saying hey look at this person they have good genetics why don't you breed.

That's an intensely small-minded way of looking at it.

I can be sexually attracted to women, and choose to not act on it. Besides, sexual attraction isn't purely about breeding.

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This actually makes a lot of sense! I'd read up on the difference before now, but it was a little while ago. So basically, sexual desire is broader than sexual attraction. Sexual attraction is where you would like to focus your sexual desire on a certain person, whereas sexual desire is just the need for physical happenings no matter who you're with (or not with). Thanks for this thread :)

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This actually makes a lot of sense! I'd read up on the difference before now, but it was a little while ago. So basically, sexual desire is broader than sexual attraction. Sexual attraction is where you would like to focus your sexual desire on a certain person, whereas sexual desire is just the need for physical happenings no matter who you're with (or not with). Thanks for this thread :)

So if I wanted to fuck my female dog or my niece, just for physical release...I wouldn't be neither a zoophile and a pedophile ?

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Zoophile and pedophile refer to who you are attracted to, not your actions, just like asexuality. So I'd say that, if you are so frustrated that you would like to have sex and are not picky about who it is with, then that would be more indicative of lidibo level than sexual orientation. However, if you feel sexual attraction to a child or an animal, then that would fall under the umbrella of pedophilia or zoophilia.

So I guess the difference is whether or not you cared if you were having sex with your dog specifically, or if you just wanted sex in general (and another adult capable of consent would do just as well). Or at least, that's how it plays out in my mind.

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