Low sex drive vs. Gray-A?

[Notte stellata]

Hi folks, I'm new to the site and the concept of gray-A as well. I have a questions here:

I read that people who identify as gray-A can include those who experience sexual attraction, but a low sex drive (http://www.asexuality.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gray-A). So does it mean anyone with a low sex drive can identify as gray-A?

I'm interested in this because I have a low sex drive, and I think I may be gray-A/demisexual. I can't imagine having sex with someone I'm not emotionally attached to, no matter how hot he is. The only person I'm sexually attracted to is my boyfriend. I often find other people physically attractive, and I used to have a lot of crushes, but I never fantasized about having sex with them. I rarely get horny or crave sex. I can go without sex or masturbation for a long time, but when my boyfriend wants sex, I'm usually happy to have sex with him. I do enjoy the physical pleasure and the intimacy of sex, which seems to be my major difference from many gray-A's (based on some threads I read here).

So do I sound like gray-A/demisexual? I know labels aren't important, but I'm curious.

[Alison Gross]

I'm pretty new here too so don't take what I say as "expert" advice. Everyone's sex drive naturally ebbs and flows and I think the difference between asexuals and people who just have low libido might be described as follows. Any person may not care for sex but there's some sort of "rational" explanation, like they're at that point of their hormone cycle, they had a bad day at work, etc. The person with low libido might be more easily put off by these things, less interested in sex in general but, in neutral state, can have sex with the best of them. The asexual innately lacks the ability to feel sexual desire/attraction unless certain conditions are met. That's a weak explanation and I'm sure it's easy to poke holes in it but its the best I can do in a "general" sense. As a specific example, I lack the ability to feel physical attraction. It doesn't matter what someone looks like, I will never feel the slightest interest in them unless I know something more, beyond their physical characteristics. However, I don't actually have a low libido. When I'm with someone I feel connected to, I actually have a high one. One the other hand a non-asexual person with a low libido might not have much interest in sex in general. But, if you put her together with a REALLY "hot" guy during the most fertile part of her cycle, gave her a few drinks, etc. she just might be in the mood to go for it. Maybe you could say, the sex drive of a person with low libido is more influenced by external factors, where as there are things that you can NEVER make an asexual want no matter how hard you try. They just aren't wired for it. Like if a person was mostly straight but slightly bi-curious, you might be able to persuade them to have sex with their own gender but a person who is 100% heterosexual would never be interested, no matter what. Nature versus inclination? Again, bad definition, but I tried. :P

[Notte stellata]

Thanks for your reply, Alison. That's an interesting explanation, and I think it makes some sense. I'm kind of like you. I need to know someone's inside to be really interested in them. I can feel physical attraction to someone I just met, but it's only aesthetic and nothing sexual.

[canurel8?]

Thanks for your reply, Alison. That's an interesting explanation, and I think it makes some sense. I'm kind of like you. I need to know someone's inside to be really interested in them. I can feel physical attraction to someone I just met, but it's only aesthetic and nothing sexual.

I especially understand Alison's comment that "the asexual innately lacks the ability to feel sexual desire/attraction unless certain conditions are met." I guess that's true for demi-sexual as well. I now realize that not only did I need the romantic attachment to my husband to want sex (and not frequently), but I also had to know that he needed the same thing. That's a pretty specific need, so when I found out he used porn (which is obviously sex for sex's sake), my sexual desire went out the window. Now I still want romance, but I have no desire for sex at all, although I can still respond physically and occasionally will participate.

Mari

[Alison Gross]

Thanks for your reply, Alison. That's an interesting explanation, and I think it makes some sense. I'm kind of like you. I need to know someone's inside to be really interested in them. I can feel physical attraction to someone I just met, but it's only aesthetic and nothing sexual.

I especially understand Alison's comment that "the asexual innately lacks the ability to feel sexual desire/attraction unless certain conditions are met." I guess that's true for demi-sexual as well. I now realize that not only did I need the romantic attachment to my husband to want sex (and not frequently), but I also had to know that he needed the same thing. That's a pretty specific need, so when I found out he used porn (which is obviously sex for sex's sake), my sexual desire went out the window. Now I still want romance, but I have no desire for sex at all, although I can still respond physically and occasionally will participate.

Mari

I totally identify with you about both the desire to feel connection before sex and to know the connection is important to the other as well. Here's a perspective on the porn thing that might make you feel a little better. My partner and I have a concept we call situational arousal. We've both agreed it's not okay for the other to be attracted to other PEOPLE (which doesn't really happen anyway) but it's fine to be turned on by something a person is doing or wearing if it makes is want that in the context of our partner. He would never be like "That's a hot girl," but would be like "that's a girl in a hot outfit. You should wear that." So, for us, porn isn't just sex for sex's sake. It's a way to get ideas for stuff to do together. Maybe talking to your husband you might be able to find more of a connection to you than you think. As a demisexual myself, whose ability to become aroused is very easily upset and, hence, very valuable, I feel for your situation and hope you guys can find some way to work this out.

[canurel8?]

Thanks for your reply, Alison. That's an interesting explanation, and I think it makes some sense. I'm kind of like you. I need to know someone's inside to be really interested in them. I can feel physical attraction to someone I just met, but it's only aesthetic and nothing sexual.

I especially understand Alison's comment that "the asexual innately lacks the ability to feel sexual desire/attraction unless certain conditions are met." I guess that's true for demi-sexual as well. I now realize that not only did I need the romantic attachment to my husband to want sex (and not frequently), but I also had to know that he needed the same thing. That's a pretty specific need, so when I found out he used porn (which is obviously sex for sex's sake), my sexual desire went out the window. Now I still want romance, but I have no desire for sex at all, although I can still respond physically and occasionally will participate.

Mari

I totally identify with you about both the desire to feel connection before sex and to know the connection is important to the other as well. Here's a perspective on the porn thing that might make you feel a little better. My partner and I have a concept we call situational arousal. We've both agreed it's not okay for the other to be attracted to other PEOPLE (which doesn't really happen anyway) but it's fine to be turned on by something a person is doing or wearing if it makes is want that in the context of our partner. He would never be like "That's a hot girl," but would be like "that's a girl in a hot outfit. You should wear that." So, for us, porn isn't just sex for sex's sake. It's a way to get ideas for stuff to do together. Maybe talking to your husband you might be able to find more of a connection to you than you think. As a demisexual myself, whose ability to become aroused is very easily upset and, hence, very valuable, I feel for your situation and hope you guys can find some way to work this out.

My experience with porn is kind of complicated, and I get tired of hearing myself tell it, but I'll make a very long story short. I had no problems with porn in my teens and early twenties, and my husband and I sometimes watched it together in the way you're describing. For some reason after we married, he decided to start hiding it, and it became more of a compulsion. Then we had children and he went through the weird psychological thing of seeing me as a mother, which resulted in him being less sexual with me and using more porn. All this went on in secret, and being a demisexual (which I didn't know) and busy raising children, having sex less didn't seem like a problem! My husband was still romantic toward me, which was all I really needed. So, when I finally caught him, I was thorougly confused and hurt (because I thought he needed romance with sex). Then, in the course of marital therapy, the more we discussed the issue, the less appealing sex became to me.

So, that's where I am at this point. I'm glad to have found this site and learn how my orientation (and lack of knowledge about other orientations) contributed to my reaction, and maybe that will help.

Mari

[Notte stellata]

Thanks for your reply, Alison. That's an interesting explanation, and I think it makes some sense. I'm kind of like you. I need to know someone's inside to be really interested in them. I can feel physical attraction to someone I just met, but it's only aesthetic and nothing sexual.

I especially understand Alison's comment that "the asexual innately lacks the ability to feel sexual desire/attraction unless certain conditions are met." I guess that's true for demi-sexual as well. I now realize that not only did I need the romantic attachment to my husband to want sex (and not frequently), but I also had to know that he needed the same thing. That's a pretty specific need, so when I found out he used porn (which is obviously sex for sex's sake), my sexual desire went out the window. Now I still want romance, but I have no desire for sex at all, although I can still respond physically and occasionally will participate.

Mari

I totally identify with you about both the desire to feel connection before sex and to know the connection is important to the other as well. Here's a perspective on the porn thing that might make you feel a little better. My partner and I have a concept we call situational arousal. We've both agreed it's not okay for the other to be attracted to other PEOPLE (which doesn't really happen anyway) but it's fine to be turned on by something a person is doing or wearing if it makes is want that in the context of our partner. He would never be like "That's a hot girl," but would be like "that's a girl in a hot outfit. You should wear that." So, for us, porn isn't just sex for sex's sake. It's a way to get ideas for stuff to do together. Maybe talking to your husband you might be able to find more of a connection to you than you think. As a demisexual myself, whose ability to become aroused is very easily upset and, hence, very valuable, I feel for your situation and hope you guys can find some way to work this out.

My experience with porn is kind of complicated, and I get tired of hearing myself tell it, but I'll make a very long story short. I had no problems with porn in my teens and early twenties, and my husband and I sometimes watched it together in the way you're describing. For some reason after we married, he decided to start hiding it, and it became more of a compulsion. Then we had children and he went through the weird psychological thing of seeing me as a mother, which resulted in him being less sexual with me and using more porn. All this went on in secret, and being a demisexual (which I didn't know) and busy raising children, having sex less didn't seem like a problem! My husband was still romantic toward me, which was all I really needed. So, when I finally caught him, I was thorougly confused and hurt (because I thought he needed romance with sex). Then, in the course of marital therapy, the more we discussed the issue, the less appealing sex became to me.

So, that's where I am at this point. I'm glad to have found this site and learn how my orientation (and lack of knowledge about other orientations) contributed to my reaction, and maybe that will help.

Mari

Personally I have no problem with my bf watching porn, but I understand it can be an issue when one partner hides porn. Maybe your husband hides porn because he knows you don't like it and he doesn't want to hurt you? Anyway, hope you two can come to a mutual understanding through the therapy and communication.

[Alison Gross]

I totally agree with the previous post. Regardless of how one might feel about watching porn, hiding it is not cool. It is possible to become addicted to porn if one watches it too often or over too long a period, which can do a lot of damage to a relationship if it isn't checked. In addition to the deception factor, I would also say a good measure of whether porn is "healthy" or not is whether it's adding to the relationship or taking away from it. If my partner was watching porn but wasn't interested in being intimate with me, I'd be super steamed.

[canurel8?]

I totally agree with the previous post. Regardless of how one might feel about watching porn, hiding it is not cool. It is possible to become addicted to porn if one watches it too often or over too long a period, which can do a lot of damage to a relationship if it isn't checked. In addition to the deception factor, I would also say a good measure of whether porn is "healthy" or not is whether it's adding to the relationship or taking away from it. If my partner was watching porn but wasn't interested in being intimate with me, I'd be super steamed.

I was more than super steamed ... I was beyond livid! It did become an addiction because he used it to escape responsibilities and stress. The good thing is he had therapy from an addiction standpoint, and as far as I can tell, it's no longer a problem. (He was sexually abused as a child, which complicated his thinking even more.) It's been more than five years since I've seen any sign of an addiction, and he communicates much better with me. I do think the trauma (and that's how it felt) of going through that made it difficult for me to enjoy romance and sex together. It's something I want to keep working on, but that I don't feel comfortable trying to force.

Mari

[Alison Gross]

I totally agree with the previous post. Regardless of how one might feel about watching porn, hiding it is not cool. It is possible to become addicted to porn if one watches it too often or over too long a period, which can do a lot of damage to a relationship if it isn't checked. In addition to the deception factor, I would also say a good measure of whether porn is "healthy" or not is whether it's adding to the relationship or taking away from it. If my partner was watching porn but wasn't interested in being intimate with me, I'd be super steamed.

I was more than super steamed ... I was beyond livid! It did become an addiction because he used it to escape responsibilities and stress. The good thing is he had therapy from an addiction standpoint, and as far as I can tell, it's no longer a problem. (He was sexually abused as a child, which complicated his thinking even more.) It's been more than five years since I've seen any sign of an addiction, and he communicates much better with me. I do think the trauma (and that's how it felt) of going through that made it difficult for me to enjoy romance and sex together. It's something I want to keep working on, but that I don't feel comfortable trying to force.

Mari

You have all my support and hope in the world for that. My partner watched a lot of porn back when we met and he picked up some unsavory habits from it, like calling me gross and demeaning names during sex which really, really put me off. I got to the point where I felt grossed out just by the thought of him touching me. My therapist does describe what I went through as sexual trauma and is using that model to help me deal with it so I think your description is quite accurate. Also, she was very big on the not forcing thing and actually set limits on how intimate we could be so we wouldn't accidentally go to fast and spook each other. After over a year of celibacy and therapy our sexual feelings are finally starting to come back. It feels almost like I'm being reborn or something but it's been a long, hard road, and I have the most respect for anyone else who has the courage to walk it.

[canurel8?]

I totally agree with the previous post. Regardless of how one might feel about watching porn, hiding it is not cool. It is possible to become addicted to porn if one watches it too often or over too long a period, which can do a lot of damage to a relationship if it isn't checked. In addition to the deception factor, I would also say a good measure of whether porn is "healthy" or not is whether it's adding to the relationship or taking away from it. If my partner was watching porn but wasn't interested in being intimate with me, I'd be super steamed.

I was more than super steamed ... I was beyond livid! It did become an addiction because he used it to escape responsibilities and stress. The good thing is he had therapy from an addiction standpoint, and as far as I can tell, it's no longer a problem. (He was sexually abused as a child, which complicated his thinking even more.) It's been more than five years since I've seen any sign of an addiction, and he communicates much better with me. I do think the trauma (and that's how it felt) of going through that made it difficult for me to enjoy romance and sex together. It's something I want to keep working on, but that I don't feel comfortable trying to force.

Mari

You have all my support and hope in the world for that. My partner watched a lot of porn back when we met and he picked up some unsavory habits from it, like calling me gross and demeaning names during sex which really, really put me off. I got to the point where I felt grossed out just by the thought of him touching me. My therapist does describe what I went through as sexual trauma and is using that model to help me deal with it so I think your description is quite accurate. Also, she was very big on the not forcing thing and actually set limits on how intimate we could be so we wouldn't accidentally go to fast and spook each other. After over a year of celibacy and therapy our sexual feelings are finally starting to come back. It feels almost like I'm being reborn or something but it's been a long, hard road, and I have the most respect for anyone else who has the courage to walk it.

I'm sorry for what you went through as well, and at the same time it's a relief to hear from someone else who understands how traumatic it can be. I think it's especially so when our interest in sex depends completely on that emotional connection.