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Lack of sex getting me down


Spencer King

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Reality Check

Which industry is that?

Have you ever broached the topic of having a "friend with benefits" to your wife? How did she react? My husband seems to think that I absolutely cannot have sex with anyone else - but I can't have sex with him either! So effectively he's making me celibate. Is this common asexual behaviour?

Although I've had the "you should divorce me and find someone who can do this" and "you should find go find someone else who doesn't mind" a few times recently, I know these statements are not honestly what she thinks. Its more her beating herself up over it all, just after I've been pushed away again.

Clearly communication is lacking for us, that conclusion is something that is an outcome of what I'm reading in the thread above. and I agree I think some protective barriers have gone up in over the years surrounding this whole subject in our lives.

She is very prudish in her views I've a feeling the reaction may well be the same as your husbands. I know cannot just assume that though.

Spencer.

Hello Spencer and everyone on this thread,

Sorry to add to a long list of posts, just flame me if this post is inappropriate.

Although I have been reading about asexuality for a while, this is the first time that I muster the courage to write about it.

My story is similar to many of yours. I do not have any answers, just more questions. I cannot offer any counseling, just tell you about my own personal experience. And I certainly do not advocate that anyone follows the same path.

My story started about 37 years ago when I met this wonderful, witty, brilliant smart and beautiful girl. We have been happily married for 32 years. Happily ? mostly, except for one thing: SEX.

I was a geek back then and comfortable in the technical world but rather inexperienced and inadequate at the complex art of dating and "sex". But I had a STRONG drive and unstoppable craving. This girl was THE woman in my life. When we first tried to experiment with sex, I realized that she was not really into it. In fact, one night when I was trying to get intimate, she said "let`s save it for later".. referring to after we were married. In retrospect, I should have run! I should have known then that sex should not feel like rape or necrophilia.

This little statement, did not raise a red flag, and since she really was, and still is, the woman of my dreams, I soldiered on without a second thought except for a vague sense of frustration.

Over the course of several years, we had four wonderful children, and we are now proud grand parents. But the sexual frustration kept building up and building up right form the start. I found myself craving for sex and looking for release in every possible way, including watching scrambled X rated television programs without a descrambler for an occasional glimpse at at warped and distorted naked woman`s body. Back in the days, I had the opportunity to go to nude dancers clubs and get some release there, but it was never as good as real, intimate, passionate sex, at least that`s what I surmised for lack of firsthand experience.

Nothing I can imagine hurts more than endless, repeated, and systematic rejection. I think I can write the book on excuses. I feel that after 37 years, I have heard them all, and they ALL HURT! Just imagine the feeling of having to deal with your beautiful wife choosing to read the weekly flyer advertising the supermarket specials, night after night, after night instead of wanting to make love! And this was when we were in our twenties, in good health, without kids around. A "basketball sized hole in your stomach", as I read somewhere on this forum is a good approximation.

Yes, we tried talking about it and invariably came to the same conclusions: "I must be obsessed with sex" or "She could leave and let me live my life..." and so on, nothing constructive that we could build upon.

For many years, and this still goes on albeit less frequently, I went through endless cycles of introspection and self doubt. Is it me ? Why me ? What I am doing wrong ? There are no such things as "frigid" women, only incapable men, right ? It MUST be me then... Is it my bad breadth, bad hair, wimpy body, or [substitute any inadequate body part or habit here] ?

With the advent of the Internet, access to porn became much easier and I was able to relieve the tension faster and faster, but with little or no satisfaction.

After several years of this regimen, I became a perfect ED statistics, which somehow did not make things any easier. My reliance on porn probably contributed to this situation.

For the last four or five years I tried to change my mindset about her. I "try" to no longer see her as an object of desire, although she is truly beautiful, and was always for me the apple of my eye. This strategy seems to be working somewhat, but with occasional relapses where the frustration simply gets too much to handle. This is particularly difficult when events or situations of daily life remind me of sexual activity, of happy couples kissing, touching, indulging in sex, or of women who are actively sexual and enjoying their sexuality and so on. Valentine`s day is one of those difficult days.

Although I never did anything to "look somewhere else", things took a different turn about six years ago when I became strongly attracted to a fit, incredibly beautiful, mature coworker. Things remained only a fantasy until I admitted my strong attraction to her. It so turned out that the attraction and respect was mutual, and, since this person is in a happy relationship, we did not want to do anything that would upset each other`s life. We go for dinner once in a while and REALLY enjoy each other`s company, where we make up for lost time by kissing and sensually touching. These opportunities are few and far between but SOOO gratifying, and they help relieve the tension and pressure for several weeks, even months. We kiss more in one evening that in my entire married life. For one thing it helped my self confidence tremendously by reassuring me that it was not because of me or because I was doing something wrong.

Again, I'm not saying this is the thing to do. My personal view is that (pardon me if I bring a pessimist view) if I want to keep living with my wife and not upset her, I have to do all (or most of) the compromise, not her, after all, she does not have a problem with the situation. It`s my choice to stay.

This of course leads to many more questions: Is this cheating ? Is it destroying or helping my marriage ? What`s next ?

Hopefully 35 more years of "happy" compromise...

Yes, Spencer, the libido decreases somewhat over time, but the feelings of frustration and the craving for sex are still painfully strong sometimes. I like to think that my wife is oblivious to all this, because I stopped asking and trying to create "moods" with her a long time ago... it hurts less and does not make her feel bad for saying no.

Thank you for your patience,

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Hi,

I'm forty year old male from NE England, sexual married for sixteen years to some one I think to be on some scale of asexual.

Reflecting on life over the new year period sent me flying into a brick wall, a realization that I don't want to live the rest of my life without sex. Its really screwed up my head for the last few weeks sent my emotions into a spin. :(

My wife has never initiated sex, never masturbated, and for the last ten years freaks out if things get to the point of penetration. Sex was never a big element of the relationship, but being her first I assumed she would get more comfortable over time, only to find exactly the opposite. Meanwhile I'm an unusually extremely cuddly, affectionate male with a very healthy sex drive.

I've been so understanding for so long and put up with the lack sex but now its really getting me down. Reading some of the other posts on this forum I so relate to the feelings of not signing up for this, and the effects of rejection etc.

We have a ten year old child which complicates things, and isn't marriage supposed to be for better or worse, but I do feel some how tricked (irrational perhaps?). Other parts of the relationship are 95 percent healthy, we get at the friendship level of the marriage very well and have not grown apart.

I am currently craving sex so much and find myself in a dark place over this issue. I'm generally a really happy cheerful person!

Sexual female buddies, divorce all have crossed my mind for the first time over these weeks...

Anyway that's why I've discovered this site and will be hanging out for a little while.

Spencer

Hi, I can't help you much, but there's one thing I think it would help you to understand very clearly. You must fully grasp what it means that she doesn't desire sex, an asexual is not in control of whether they reject sexual attraction or not. I am stating the obvious but it is important that for you to acknowledge she is not rejecting you. It may be hard for you to see this from her point of view, because sexuality is hard-wired into you and a deprivation of it feels like a denial. She is as powerless as you in this and I expect does not naturally see sex as something remotely relevant to romance. Yes, it is "irrational" but perfectly understandable for you to feel tricked. Try not to feel that way, this is nobody's fault.

That's all I can say, good luck.

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it all comes down to if you love sex more than her, it sounds like you do and in that case, end it because she deserves soemone so much better than that. and if you're worried about your 10 year old child, speaking as a child of divorced parents myself, its really not a big deal, people over exaggerate, they will get over it

Hi,

I'm forty year old male from NE England, sexual married for sixteen years to some one I think to be on some scale of asexual.

Reflecting on life over the new year period sent me flying into a brick wall, a realization that I don't want to live the rest of my life without sex. Its really screwed up my head for the last few weeks sent my emotions into a spin. :(

My wife has never initiated sex, never masturbated, and for the last ten years freaks out if things get to the point of penetration. Sex was never a big element of the relationship, but being her first I assumed she would get more comfortable over time, only to find exactly the opposite. Meanwhile I'm an unusually extremely cuddly, affectionate male with a very healthy sex drive.

I've been so understanding for so long and put up with the lack sex but now its really getting me down. Reading some of the other posts on this forum I so relate to the feelings of not signing up for this, and the effects of rejection etc.

We have a ten year old child which complicates things, and isn't marriage supposed to be for better or worse, but I do feel some how tricked (irrational perhaps?). Other parts of the relationship are 95 percent healthy, we get at the friendship level of the marriage very well and have not grown apart.

I am currently craving sex so much and find myself in a dark place over this issue. I'm generally a really happy cheerful person!

Sexual female buddies, divorce all have crossed my mind for the first time over these weeks...

Anyway that's why I've discovered this site and will be hanging out for a little while.

Spencer

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it all comes down to if you love sex more than her, it sounds like you do and in that case, end it because she deserves soemone so much better than that.

Not this sort of ignorant antisexual shit again? :angry:

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it all comes down to if you love sex more than her, it sounds like you do and in that case, end it because she deserves soemone so much better than that.

Let's turn that around, Shannon, and see if you still agree with it.

"It all comes down to if you love not having sex more than you love him. It sounds like you do, and in that case, end it because he deserves someone so much better than that."

If you don't like that version, then what you said is hypocritical, to say the least.

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Guest member25959

Oh wait, some posts disappeared! :blink:

Don't worry about that, they're just hidden, for now. :ph34r: They shall return shortly.

Arca nine Huggles

-SPFA Moderator

And now they've returned!

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  • 2 weeks later...
here-to-learn

Hi,

I'm forty year old male from NE England, sexual married for sixteen years to some one I think to be on some scale of asexual.

Reflecting on life over the new year period sent me flying into a brick wall, a realization that I don't want to live the rest of my life without sex. Its really screwed up my head for the last few weeks sent my emotions into a spin. :(

My wife has never initiated sex, never masturbated, and for the last ten years freaks out if things get to the point of penetration. Sex was never a big element of the relationship, but being her first I assumed she would get more comfortable over time, only to find exactly the opposite. Meanwhile I'm an unusually extremely cuddly, affectionate male with a very healthy sex drive.

I've been so understanding for so long and put up with the lack sex but now its really getting me down. Reading some of the other posts on this forum I so relate to the feelings of not signing up for this, and the effects of rejection etc.

We have a ten year old child which complicates things, and isn't marriage supposed to be for better or worse, but I do feel some how tricked (irrational perhaps?). Other parts of the relationship are 95 percent healthy, we get at the friendship level of the marriage very well and have not grown apart.

I am currently craving sex so much and find myself in a dark place over this issue. I'm generally a really happy cheerful person!

Sexual female buddies, divorce all have crossed my mind for the first time over these weeks...

Anyway that's why I've discovered this site and will be hanging out for a little while.

Spencer

Hi, all...

I'm new to AVEN, and this is my first post, but this rang so familiar to my ears that it prompted me to register an account so I could reply. Haven't read all the replies (just the first few so far in the thread), so I'll just relate my personal experience, and may chime in again later, after I've seen what others have said.

I'm nearing 43, and was in a relationship just shy of 16 years, which we ended as "romantic" (it wasn't, anymore) and are now "just friends". This was about 2.5 years ago. No kids, and we weren't married, so there weren't any legal hassles, nor explosive fireworks. It just...fizzled out. :-(

I'm very sexual in orientation (though, given the past <very many> years, I'm easily classifiable as "celibate", though not by choice. My ex is somewhere on the asexual scale, but I don't know the terms well enough to give it a label. The first year was great, then things started to taper off, and by the 2nd year, I was noticing, and becoming somewhat frustrated. On our 7th anniversary, she told me that she NEVER orgasmed when we had sex, and that, honestly, sex felt like "too much work". The next 5 years I spent trying to find ways to help with this, including instructional self-help books, videos, erotica, toys...you name it. No improvement. Quite the opposite...

At year 12, I just gave up... In retrospect, I've discovered that what I really needed, and craved, was affection. Any form of affection, but she isn't really that affectionate. Also, quick to criticize. This eroded my self-esteem to the point that I withdrew from most interactions, and spent about 2 years in a very Dark Place, clinically depressed. :-(

I spent YEARS (literally!) trying to figure out what was wrong with my relationship, and it was only after analyzing it about a million different ways (again, quite probably literally), that I realized the fundamental incompatibility of the situation. Either one of us might be able (with lots of therapy and probably some pharmaceuticals) do something to change our core alignment...or (more likely) not. And either way, at least one of us would probably still not be happy with the change, because it wasn't True to our core self.

About 3 months before our 16th anniversary, she said "Maybe this isn't going to work. Maybe we should just be friends." I thought about it for about 30 seconds, and agreed. (Having done all the prep-work/analysis for the preceding years, to the point of disfunction in most of the rest of my life.)

The positive (and surprising!) thing to come out of this, when I laid down to sleep a few hours later (we'd already been in separate rooms for a couple years at that point) was that, rather than feeling miserable, or sorry for myself, my brain suddenly spun back up, and the fog I'd been lost in for the previous 2+ years suddenly lifted! I was literally BUZZING with energy, and laid in bed astonished and excited for 2 hours (until about 5:30am!) as my brain came back online.

I no longer had a blockage consuming all of my CPU cycles wondering "what's wrong with my relationship?" because, by agreement, we had just redefined it out of existence. I didn't have a relationship, and that sudden release allowed me to break free of being trapped in that endless loop of self-examination/searching in the "now", and let me actually look at the other things that were all put on the back-burner for the previous few years. I could look into the future again, and start to plan out my life once more. I was able to think about getting back to work (I'd been off for 1+ year, and didn't give a shit about work due to the more important blockage), working on my old projects, sorting out my finances, and even beginning to look at creative pursuits once more.

In short, I began the long climb out of the Dark Place, and went to work on the task of rediscovering Me, and putting myself back together. It's taken years, and has been very worthwhile. I'm stronger and more in touch with myself as a result and doing VERY well these days, but it was NOT fun in the Dark Place! It was bleak. It was crushing. I spent months/years hating myself, laying curled up in bed, disconnected from all my friends because I didn't feel that I deserved them, getting overweight and smoking/drinking/etc. WAY too much, because "What the hell's the point of taking care of myself if I'm not loved, and not going to be getting any positive strokes to my psyche, much less any affection/physical intimacy?"

I don't recommend that path if it can be at all avoided, and that's why I registered my account today, and am sharing my story. As I saw in another thread, someone said that when everything's going well, sex is only about 10% of a relationship. But the lack of sex, or frustration about it, can make it blossom to be something like 90% of the issue, and that's what happened to me. I stopped caring about myself, my body, my finances, my job (or lack thereof), my friends, etc., etc. It bled over into many other aspects of my life that were unexpected, and it crippled me. Mainly because of the lack of affection & validation that comes from sharing a close connection with my partner. It was really just a casual friend/housemate situation; but one that still left her feeling entitled to criticize and nag about any and every thing that annoyed her, while never discussing the one thing that frustrated me. :-/

This was corrosive to my self-esteem, and I use that term in its precise, chemical meaning: It caused a destructive reaction that was not reversible. It changed me, and that change couldn't be switched into reverse, or undone. I couldn't recover the previous romantic love that had been there years before, even though we're still good friends. Just as you can't reverse a piece of metal that has rusted out, I needed to rebuild myself using new (and more corrosion-resistant!) materials. That involved putting in safeguards and backstops to prevent falling back into the Dark Place. I hear criticisms, and try to integrate them and find ways to improve myself, but no longer allow them to wound me like before. I respond MUCH better to positives than to negatives, and if something gets too negative, even in social situations with friends (such as drunken debates that go off the rails), I've found that I'll now remove myself from the situation, not take it personally, and give some time & space for us both to sober up and reflect, then re-open the communication channel, try to clear up the misunderstanding, and figure out what parts are useful and can be integrated & learned from it.

As noted, I'm actually VERY pleased with my rebuild and new path, and spent about a year or so not even considering seeing anyone, then the past year with some light dates that haven't gone anywhere serious in the romance/physical/sex arena. (Still not sure when/if I'll ever want to get into a "serious" relationship again. I don't want to invest that much time just to hit another dead end...) But even now, while still being basically celibate, and not involved with anyone, I'm OK with it. I'm comfortable, even, because I've had years of practice, and I'm happy focusing on rediscovering and improving the other parts of ME until I meet the right person who shows an interest. (I don't want to just go have sex with someone random. Due to my experiences, I really want someone who's excited about ME. I've already been with someone who isn't, and it didn't work. It was toxic to me.)

I joke with my friends (in a sort of wryly serious way) that I'm really looking forward to having sex in my 40's...as I await the arrival of my 43rd birthday within the next 6 months... :-/ But actually, I'm OK with it, now. I'm patient, I'm better than before, and I know that at some point, someone's going to be VERY happy! ;-)

Maybe you can make it work, Spencer. Or maybe not. I couldn't, and tried everything I could think of, to my own crippling detriment. I just wanted to share my story, provide a stern and vivid warning to be ESPECIALLY aware of the dangers of the Dark Place (AVOID AT ALL COSTS!!), and to let you know that It Gets Better. :-)

It may not work out how you planned. I had to walk away from my hopes & dreams & plans, and rebuild a new life path for myself. But one of the things that I've learned is that you can't change people if they don't want to change...and most of them don't want to change. :-(

All you can do is work on yourself, and making yourself the best you can possibly be...FOR YOURSELF! Some will see your true light shining through, and others may never see it.... But there's only one person who'll be with you on your entire life path, and that's you. So you'd better get comfortable and happy being with that person. :-)

Hope this helps. Writing it all down has helped me. Thanks for giving me a reason to do so. :-)

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*killer*queen*

I haven't read through EVERY single post, but I've found this, overall, to be an interesting read (from an Ace's point of view). I've never been married or in such a long-term relationship as that where there are years of suffering. This is mostly just observations from what I've learned here and various situations.

It can be hard for an Ace to realize these things affect others to such a degree. We've never known it so it naturally doesn't occur to us that it can be so needed. Whether it's for sex or touching or what have you. So when we find out it can be an alien concept to us, we can understand it once we're aware, but not totally I don't think.

I've never been big on touching. Even passing something to someone I will do my best not to touch them whatsoever. Truthfully, I kind of look at it (even what at most would barely be a graze) as an intrusion into their personal space. Even if I realistically know they're not going to mind it (or that others would like to get a hug) it feels to me like the wrong thing to do. A rule you don't break, granted it's only my rule, but I have a hard time seeing things the way others might. Even if I clearly don't expect them to play by the same rules, I must play by mine. It's like...I never learned that it's ok. I don't quite understand it but that's the way it is. And I've played so long by my rules, I don't know how to break them anymore. And the way I view such things is not something I've always been aware of until recently. I've never spent a lot of time dissecting the things I do, or the way I am. I didn't question what my motives were for things, I just did them, or didn't do them.

It wasn't until the last few years that I ever initiated hugs with my bestie of 20yrs, and only then when she was leaving to go back to her home out-of-state. I think I've only done it a handful of times and have rather dropped off doing it. It just feels awkward... and sometimes I get that it is to her too, if only because it is to me. There's always this space of a few seconds where I'm trying to decide if I should or not. Because what mostly gives me pause is this very subtle-yet-uncertain look on her face...which probably mirrors my own, idk. I do tolerate most people touching me, unless it's very inappropriate. I've mostly always looked at most contact as a social norm; not everybody wants to do it, but it's like a tradition (kind of like in the movies when you see the girls kiss on the cheeks even though they hate each other's guts, lol). So I've learned to not react when I get pulled into these traditions. Even my own mother, I barely hug. She hugs me often, usually I just stand there and wait. If it's taking too long I'll shake her off. I've tried to change and at least when I KNOW she's feeling down, I'll give her a hug. And while I'm awkward with that, I do view it as having a purpose instead of standing there feeling even more awkward about what I should do instead.

But on the whole, for an Ace who isn't into the cuddling thing, it may not be that they aren't. Some of us, as I've seen mentioned in previous posts, have learned that innocent touches can lead others on. And I've certainly gotten into this mess not from touching other people but just from friendly chit chat. But I think that mostly goes for the more desperate ones as I seem to continually get this with married guys who may not be happy in their relationship. For females, we generally learn this at an early age and for those of us who aren't as socially comfortable with people, the vigilance over how we might appear to others becomes, in fact, habit, part of us. Not saying it's like that for all, some Aces are very cuddly, but then some may not know one way or the other. You put up this wall to protect you and then you forget where the door is. It's instinct to protect yourself when you've always done it. And honestly, we're not always really aware of how we behave is affecting others.

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Hi, I can't help you much, but there's one thing I think it would help you to understand very clearly. You must fully grasp what it means that she doesn't desire sex, an asexual is not in control of whether they reject sexual attraction or not. I am stating the obvious but it is important that for you to acknowledge she is not rejecting you. It may be hard for you to see this from her point of view, because sexuality is hard-wired into you and a deprivation of it feels like a denial. She is as powerless as you in this and I expect does not naturally see sex as something remotely relevant to romance. Yes, it is "irrational" but perfectly understandable for you to feel tricked. Try not to feel that way, this is nobody's fault.

That's all I can say, good luck.

On reading some of these last posts (aside from the new people who've jumped into AVEN), I have to agree with pointing this out. Asexuality is not not liking sex.

Yes, there is compromise in every area of relationships but certain things are just not compromise-able to each other's liking sometimes. To someone who is asexual and not into sex at all I would probably liken it to someone who is being asked to compromise on a extreme fetish that they don't have. To the sexuals who feel asexuals are just disallowing something that is easy for them to just go along with to some extent, would you participate in activities such as dressing up in diapers to roleplay in sexual activity or involve yourself in a waste products fetish if your partner really wanted that? (No offence to those who have such fetishes, it's just not my thing and I'm just thinking off the top of my head.)

I'm not saying that this is ammo for asexuals to not compromise or for either party to not work out some form of compromise, but I just wanted to interject and mention that sometimes it's not just as easy as vacuuming when one doesn't like vacuuming.

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I must say that re-reading this thread has been interesting. To be honest, I don't know if it's a "who has it worse" situation when it comes to sexual-asexual relationships. I think I have it worse as everyone around me thinks I'm just plain WEIRD for not liking sex, but my dh thinks he has it worse because he sees wanting sex as normal yet isn't getting any.

So who has it worse?

I have always believed if my partner is caring enough towards me to make me feel loved, appreciated, safe and secure, then sex may even become not too bad because I totally trust this person to help me through it all. And that surely there are people 'out there' who are fine with their partner not enjoying the act of sex, but loves them enough to *try* to enjoy it.

I have never had that.

Aspie

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The Great WTF

I must say that re-reading this thread has been interesting. To be honest, I don't know if it's a "who has it worse" situation when it comes to sexual-asexual relationships. I think I have it worse as everyone around me thinks I'm just plain WEIRD for not liking sex, but my dh thinks he has it worse because he sees wanting sex as normal yet isn't getting any.

So who has it worse?

I have always believed if my partner is caring enough towards me to make me feel loved, appreciated, safe and secure, then sex may even become not too bad because I totally trust this person to help me through it all. And that surely there are people 'out there' who are fine with their partner not enjoying the act of sex, but loves them enough to *try* to enjoy it.

I have never had that.

Aspie

*hugs* That's a wonderful sentiment, Aspie, and you certainly deserve someone who loves you that much.

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Chrism,

Both people are in "dark places" in a mixed relationship. The longer the relationship the darker it gets. We don't want to hurt our partner, we just want to love them. We sacrifice for them. We suffer for them...while clinging to that glimmer of hope. I cannot say which is worse. Is it harder to abstain, or harder to provide? It probably doesn't really matter. Both are hard. And, it depends on the individual.

I can appreciate where you are coming from and the dark places you have been. I also appreciate you sharing with us.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm a sexual female and I totally get where you are coming from.  

1.  It's true that sexual females will reject a man's advances based on feelings towards him.  I was in a relationship with a man.  We started out mutual happy.  Then I grew unhapy with him and the relationship.  I found him more annoying and less sexually attractive... our sex dwindled down until I couldn't stand to be in the same room with him and left. Left the relationship that is. Actually most of my relationships are similar to this, where the satisfaction of the relationship is parallel to sexual activity.  The happier I am, the more I like, or love the person the more I want to have sex and the more likely I am to have "all kinds of sex."

2. I've also been in relationships were the men were either gay or asexual and everything in between.  Sometimes you do feel cheated because they want you to like them so they pretand but eventually can't pretand to be interested in sex any longer.  Sometimes *I* feel it's deliberate because they really wanted a relationship... talked about children and the most practicle way to have a family is to... well get married... have sex, have babies, especially if your siblings are already married with their 2.5 children, own a house and drive matching cars. 

On the other hand I think people are confused and in denail .  The one guy I dated who was bi (but really more gay), I left him... and he got married to a woman.  I don't think he's as honest with her as he was with me. Which saddens me... but that's not my relationship anymore so I keep quiet.

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Number 5... is your name referencing Short Circuit? Because I want you to know that he is my spirit animal:

image.jpg

LOL No. Just a random alias I came up with. It's more like, "number 5" from the British 60's TV show "The Island". As in "prisioner number 5". You don't know if he's another prisioner or an undercover agent. LOL Just something I came up with in that moment :)

Nice Robot BTW! :)

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I just wanted to add something else. I feel similar to what here-to-learn wrote.

I met my now ex husand when I was 19. He was 21. I was new to sex and didn't really know what to was the "norm" or what I liked/ didn't like yet. The moment I met him I was in love. The very moment. Two months after I was convinced we we would have a baby together (one day).

The problem I learned is that if you take sex out of the equation from a commited, long-term, adult relationship the problems compund in a way they wouldn't if you had sex. I noticed over the years that I DO like giving DT BJs... but I will only give them if I feel apprichiated and when the other person isn't being selfish in the bedroom. I also noticed that sex can fix 90% of all problems in a relationship if you both already love eachother. The option of not using sex as a mesurement of how the relationship is going, how angry/ forgiving you are towards your partner or how much you approve of their actions make it harder to relate.

Over the years I noticed that having sex or wanting sex or watching porn has more to do with a world of other things and less with the actual act it self.

Now as for cheating..... my ex and I had an on/off relationship, we did end up with a child... but eventually decided to split. We still talk and we're raising the child together but I couldn't be in the kind of relationship he wanted. Most of my friends said I was less of a wife/ lover and more like his mommy. It's a horrible feeling to feel like someone sees you as their mother when you're in your late 20s dressed up in your Victora Secrets on his birthday wanting to be unwrapped. :(

So are we better off without eachother? In our case yes. Our child still gets to see both of us. We're still very much a "family" but we don't live under the same roof and don't fight. I think our child not having to see us fight amd seeing mommy and daddy happy around one another is probably better for her in the long run. We gave it a lot of effort but in the end this was the best choice for us.

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Spencer King

I just wanted to add something else. I feel similar to what here-to-learn wrote.

I met my now ex husand when I was 19. He was 21. I was new to sex and didn't really know what to was the "norm" or what I liked/ didn't like yet. The moment I met him I was in love. The very moment. Two months after I was convinced we we would have a baby together (one day).

The problem I learned is that if you take sex out of the equation from a commited, long-term, adult relationship the problems compund in a way they wouldn't if you had sex. I noticed over the years that I DO like giving DT BJs... but I will only give them if I feel apprichiated and when the other person isn't being selfish in the bedroom. I also noticed that sex can fix 90% of all problems in a relationship if you both already love eachother. The option of not using sex as a mesurement of how the relationship is going, how angry/ forgiving you are towards your partner or how much you approve of their actions make it harder to relate.

Over the years I noticed that having sex or wanting sex or watching porn has more to do with a world of other things and less with the actual act it self.

Now as for cheating..... my ex and I had an on/off relationship, we did end up with a child... but eventually decided to split. We still talk and we're raising the child together but I couldn't be in the kind of relationship he wanted. Most of my friends said I was less of a wife/ lover and more like his mommy. It's a horrible feeling to feel like someone sees you as their mother when you're in your late 20s dressed up in your Victora Secrets on his birthday wanting to be unwrapped. :(

So are we better off without eachother? In our case yes. Our child still gets to see both of us. We're still very much a "family" but we don't live under the same roof and don't fight. I think our child not having to see us fight amd seeing mommy and daddy happy around one another is probably better for her in the long run. We gave it a lot of effort but in the end this was the best choice for us.

Thanks Number5 for enriching this thread with yet another experience.

It really does so help put the things in my head in order when I hear everyones' experiences, thanks for your frank contribution.

Staying together for the kids seems to be decidedly not the thing to do from what I've been hearing here and elsewhere, that distresses me as its a big excuses taken away from me that I was using to bury my head in the sand.

Interesting hearing your comments of sex to cure problems. I don't think my sexual relationship was ever strong enough to have experienced the band aid effect, or perhaps it's different with different people?

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Spence,

The kids are an important factor in all this. They can not be ignored. The foundation of what becomes their understanding of marriage is based on what their parents do. Kids learn what love is...from their parents. Kids learn what marriage is...from their parents. Kids learn that love is REAL...from their parents. Kids learn how to treat their wife..their husband...from their parents. Kids learn that marriage is long lasting...from their parents. Kids learn how to be a man...how to be a woman...from their parents. Kids learn how to be parents....from their parents.

There are exceptions, of course, but families are the general way most people learn about so much of life.

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^ Percivel:

One thing I might add to your list of things that kids learn is that mom and dad are unhappy and are staying with each other just for their sake.

I personally feel that if your relationship is rocky and there is a lot of fighting and if it weren't for the kids you'd be breaking up then you should probably break up. Kids learn lots of things and are not stupid. My parents were divorced from when I was quite young and I cannot imagine the ridiculousness that would have occurred if they were together during my childhood. Though they weren't perfect it, they did try to have communication some of the time to still have that teamwork approach to parenthood. In this way I feel a separation can actually be a positive (as long as you still work together in some way) rather than have the relationship and household fester.

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I personally feel that if your relationship is rocky and there is a lot of fighting and if it weren't for the kids you'd be breaking up then you should probably break up. Kids learn lots of things and are not stupid.

Kids learn a million lessons from a million places. To suggest that they learn it all from mom and dad is shortsighted and clearly untrue.

The best thing you can do for your kid is instill in them a determination to be happy and kind, confidence in their ability to make good decisions and security that they can come home to you when they fail.

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ummm... I never said that kids don't learn things in a lot of places. I was just commenting on Percivel's post about kids learning different things from their parents.

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And the kids aren't going to want to come home -- fail or not -- if the parents are very unhappy with each other. No one wants to be in a contentious home.

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Even abused kids still love their parents. I know this because my dad was a county director for CPS for ten years.

And, unfortunately, kids who grow up in abusive households....often find themselves in abusive relationships when adults. Boys who have abusive dad's (to mom or the kids)...often become abusive as adults. Girls with abusive dad's...often find themselves with abusive boyfriends. Strange how it all works.

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Even abused kids still love their parents. I know this because my dad was a county director for CPS for ten years.

And, unfortunately, kids who grow up in abusive households....often find themselves in abusive relationships when adults. Boys who have abusive dad's (to mom or the kids)...often become abusive as adults. Girls with abusive dad's...often find themselves with abusive boyfriends. Strange how it all works.

Yes -- women tend to try to get their abusive boyfriends/husbands to be nice to them the way their fathers weren't -- trying to change the past, kind of.

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Thanks Number5 for enriching this thread with yet another experience.

It really does so help put the things in my head in order when I hear everyones' experiences, thanks for your frank contribution.

:)

Staying together for the kids seems to be decidedly not the thing to do from what I've been hearing here and elsewhere, that distresses me as its a big excuses taken away from me that I was using to bury my head in the sand.

I'm not going to lie to you.  When we first seperated it was hell.  It was a horrible situation.  I mainly missed the daily rutine.  Talking about your day at work, Friday night movie night, Wednesday Pizza and beer with friends (and us as a couple). Moving out having to build a new home was... well it was what it was and it needed to be done.  I'm not going to sugar coat it and say it was *easy*. 

Here we are years later.  We're both very much a part of our child's life.  We both attend her school activties, know her teachers.  The love is there.  The love for our child and respect for eachother.  We don't fight anymore... and frankly it doesn't bother me what he does/ doesn't do with his spare time because I'm no longer "with him". We're some level of friends and until our child reaches 18 we will remain the way we are.

I'm currently single.  I've dated a bit after the divorce.  I haven't met anyone I felt was "special" enough to replace that husband role. However after all the dust has settled at least I'm happy with my self and don't feel like all my energy is going towards a loosing battle when it could be used for better things in life. 

Interesting hearing your comments of sex to cure problems. I don't think my sexual relationship was ever strong enough to have experienced the band aid effect, or perhaps it's different with different people?

LOL When you're happy and sexually satisfied other things bother you less.  It's probably a dopamine effect.  

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Spencer King

Spence,

The kids are an important factor in all this. They can not be ignored. The foundation of what becomes their understanding of marriage is based on what their parents do. Kids learn what love is...from their parents. Kids learn what marriage is...from their parents.

I really don't want mine thinking marriage is about living like fiends without cuddles on the sofa, hugs before work, kisses. Living in an constant atmosphere of tension can not be good.

Some of these are outside of the asexuality issues, I know but in my mind you have reinforced that staying together for the kids is wrong.

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ummm... I never said that kids don't learn things in a lot of places. I was just commenting on Percivel's post about kids learning different things from their parents.

lol... I was agreeing with you!! Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

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Obviously, kids learn from all the people in their lives and are influenced by a wide range of people, some more strongly at different points in their lives than others...positively and negatively. However, in my opinion, the number one influence on children is their parents. I'm not suggesting that couples should stay together for the kids sake only. I do think that couples should be aware that their behavior/attitudes/etc. is constantly being monitored by their kids and they should be wise to this. Kids, as part of the family, do need to be considered when the relationship starts to sour...and I think, generally, most parents do consider them.

It's just that today it sometimes seems that marriages are seen as too easily disposable. I'm not saying that anyone here is doing that. In fact, on the contrary, couples here have made extraordinary efforts to make things work.

Perhaps I am basing my opinion too much on Hollywood and pop culture. I also think I mis-read Spencers comments thinking that he said that kids should not be considered when a relationship starts to sour. Spence, man, I don't disagree with you. I know where you are and where you have been. No one can EVER say that you didn't give it one hell of an effort! And if things don't work out, you shouldn't say the marriage was a "failed effort."

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