Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Rhysie

Women & Sex: What's the big deal?

Recommended Posts

Rhysie

According to this article and a few others I've found: http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2008/07/15/get-real-the-great-noorgasmfromintercourse-conundrum

The majority of women -- according to most studies, at least 70% -- do not and will not reach orgasm through vaginal intercourse or vagina-only stimulation (like "fingering" that's only about vaginal insertion) only.

Again: most women do not reach orgasm through intercourse alone. Given that's a majority, we can safely say that it is most normal NOT to reach orgasm through intercourse alone, or only do so infrequently.

So why is sex made into such a big deal then, sexual ladies? Please pardon my ignorance, I'm merely curious.

Edit to clarify: I'm talking about vaginal penetration only and I'm wondering why women are pressured so heavily into it if it's not that great for the majority of them, physically. I assume there's some other appeal to it that I don't yet understand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Great WTF

Because sex doesn't just involve vaginal penetration? Those studies aren't saying that 70% of women never have an orgasm, just that it isn't achieved through the most basic form of intercourse. Most couples do a lot more than just that and most of it is aimed at helping the woman achieve arousal and orgasm.

Also, lack of orgasm does no mean lack of enjoyment by any means. I am asexual and very low libido but I still enjoy having sex with my boyfriend from time to time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sally

According to this article and a few others I've found: http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2008/07/15/get-real-the-great-noorgasmfromintercourse-conundrum

The majority of women -- according to most studies, at least 70% -- do not and will not reach orgasm through vaginal intercourse or vagina-only stimulation (like "fingering" that's only about vaginal insertion) only.

Again: most women do not reach orgasm through intercourse alone. Given that's a majority, we can safely say that it is most normal NOT to reach orgasm through intercourse alone, or only do so infrequently.

So why is sex made into such a big deal then, sexual ladies? Please pardon my ignorance, I'm merely curious.

I don't understand why you're asking that question. Surely you know that all sorts of activities constitute "sex".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rhysie
Those studies aren't saying that 70% of women never have an orgasm, just that it isn't achieved through the most basic form of intercourse. Most couples do a lot more than just that and most of it is aimed at helping the woman achieve arousal and orgasm.

Oh, I know this. :) Many women are most certainly capable of orgasm through other means. I'm just wondering why the act of basic intercourse itself is made into such a big deal when it's the other acts that actually cause orgasm for the most part. But thank you for your reply.

I don't understand why you're asking that question. Surely you know that all sorts of activities constitute "sex".

The wording of my original question is wrong, then. My apologies! I'm asking about the basic act of intercourse (vaginal penetration) itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
test account

What do you mean by 'what's the big deal?' Are you asking why some women enjoy vaginal intercourse?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Great WTF

I've never really heard women make a big deal about vaginal intercourse specifically, honestly, though it might be a vocal minority thing. *shrugs*

And, like I said, lack of orgasm does not necesarily mean lack of enjoyment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rhysie

What do you mean by 'what's the big deal?' Are you asking why some women enjoy vaginal intercourse?

Yes! :) If it's not all that pleasurable, physically, for many women, I don't understand why they are pressured so heavily into having intercourse. I assume it's because many women eventually learn to speak up about what makes them feel good and that they maybe enjoy the closeness to their partner?

This thought came to mind when reading another thread where some asexual women go through peer pressure regarding intercourse in which people claim it's awesome. If it's not that great, physically, then what's the appeal? Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rhysie

And, like I said, lack of orgasm does not necesarily mean lack of enjoyment.


This is true! Good point.

Edited because I no longer want to be reminded of the details of what was going on in a previous relationship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Great WTF

My boyfriend's taken the better part of a year to figure out that what works for him doesn't necesarily work for me, but now that he's figured it out it seems to have become his goal to learn everything he can about making sure I enjoy myself as much as he does. Considering my libido is nearly nonexistant, not exactly an easy thing, but he gets points for trying.

Either way, I love being able to help him enjoy himself so it doesn't matter much to me. He just seems to enjoy himself more when I get into it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rhysie

To WTF: That's fantastic. :) I'm glad you've both been finding out what works for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
test account

What do you mean by 'what's the big deal?' Are you asking why some women enjoy vaginal intercourse?

Yes! :) If it's not all that pleasurable, physically, for many women, I don't understand why they are pressured so heavily into having intercourse. I assume it's because many women eventually learn to speak up about what makes them feel good and that they maybe enjoy the closeness to their partner?

This thought came to mind when reading another thread where some asexual women go through peer pressure regarding intercourse in which people claim it's awesome. If it's not that great, physically, then what's the appeal? Thanks!

Well, some people don't mind so much if they don't orgasm. Some like the feeling of having their partner inside their body, and they like the thrusting action. For them, the act of sex can be more satisfying than an orgasm, although they may enjoy orgasms as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sally

If it's not all that pleasurable, physically, for many women, I don't understand why they are pressured so heavily into having intercourse.

Men enjoy intercourse because it involves their penises. That's why.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Chaos Heart

If it's not all that pleasurable, physically, for many women, I don't understand why they are pressured so heavily into having intercourse.

Men enjoy intercourse because it involves their penises. That's why.

That's a little...well, stereotypical, don't you think? That's hardly an accurate reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
oneofthesun

Yes! :) If it's not all that pleasurable, physically, for many women, I don't understand why they are pressured so heavily into having intercourse.

When you say pressured do you mean by other women?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Goldberry

Yes! :) If it's not all that pleasurable, physically, for many women, I don't understand why they are pressured so heavily into having intercourse.

When you say pressured do you mean by other women?

I feel as though "Pressured" is an asexual point of view. Sexual women in healthy relationships likely don't feel "pressured."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Timey-Wimey

According to this article and a few others I've found: http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2008/07/15/get-real-the-great-noorgasmfromintercourse-conundrum

The majority of women -- according to most studies, at least 70% -- do not and will not reach orgasm through vaginal intercourse or vagina-only stimulation (like "fingering" that's only about vaginal insertion) only.

Again: most women do not reach orgasm through intercourse alone. Given that's a majority, we can safely say that it is most normal NOT to reach orgasm through intercourse alone, or only do so infrequently.

So why is sex made into such a big deal then, sexual ladies? Please pardon my ignorance, I'm merely curious.

Edit to clarify: I'm talking about vaginal penetration only and I'm wondering why women are pressured so heavily into it if it's not that great for the majority of them, physically. I assume there's some other appeal to it that I don't yet understand.

I get what you're asking. I think it's instinctual. To most, 'have sex' means vaginal intercourse because that's the most effective way a woman can possibly get pregnant. And maybe in some respects it's 'safe', meaning both parties assume (because non-traditional kinds of sex make people feel (and not always because of stigma) a little sheepish because they don't want to go through the possible awkwardness of asking for a specific kind of sex) that the other will automatically be comfortable with traditional intercourse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skullery Maid

Oh, come on now. I'm gay and I still understand penetration. You don't have to orgasm from it for it to be pleasurable (think of all erogenous zones except clitoris/ penis). Heterosexual penetration is something I'm a bit jealous of, truthfully... there's nothing quite as simple as it in lesbian sex. Vaginal intercourse is something where both partners receive stimulation from each other while still maintaining mouth and/or eye contact if desired. It's actually extremely cool.

@ Chaos... stop being ridiculous. Yes, I suppose it's stereotypical to say that it feels good to stimulate the penis, and owners of penises enjoy the stimulation... but only if by "stereotypical" you mean "obvious", "accurate", and "commonly accepted".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
oneofthesun

I feel as though "Pressured" is an asexual point of view. Sexual women in healthy relationships likely don't feel "pressured." So what I'm trying to figure out is why sexual women actively want sexual intercourse.

Because it's instinct I guess. A friend once told me that females of many species don't get much if any pleasure from sex - they just know it's something they have to do, the same as sleeping or urinating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skullery Maid

I feel as though "Pressured" is an asexual point of view. Sexual women in healthy relationships likely don't feel "pressured." So what I'm trying to figure out is why sexual women actively want sexual intercourse.

Because it's instinct I guess. A friend once told me that females of many species don't get much if any pleasure from sex - they just know it's something they have to do, the same as sleeping or urinating.

Ok, but there's a huge difference between "doesn't make you orgasm" and "is just like urinating". Breasts, nipples, neck, dude's balls... all erogenous zones that feel good and that people want to stimulate, but that will never lead to orgasm for the majority. I'd say that people feel "pressured", if you will, to perform foreplay even though that doesn't make you come.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ghosts

I like it, even though I've never had an orgasm just form penetration alone - there has to be some other stimulation going on at the same time for that to happen. But regardless, it still feels good, so that's why I do it. Also changes how an orgasm feels.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Chaos Heart
@ Chaos... stop being ridiculous. Yes, I suppose it's stereotypical to say that it feels good to stimulate the penis, and owners of penises enjoy the stimulation... but only if by "stereotypical" you mean "obvious", "accurate", and "commonly accepted".

No, I mean it's inaccurate to say men want sex solely because they have a penis. That's drastically oversimplifying things. That's like saying women want to be pregnant because they have a womb. Which, I'm sure you will agree, is ridiculous. So you might want to take your own comments and direct them at yourself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sexualwithasexual

Oh, come on now. I'm gay and I still understand penetration. You don't have to orgasm from it for it to be pleasurable (think of all erogenous zones except clitoris/ penis). Heterosexual penetration is something I'm a bit jealous of, truthfully... there's nothing quite as simple as it in lesbian sex. Vaginal intercourse is something where both partners receive stimulation from each other while still maintaining mouth and/or eye contact if desired. It's actually extremely cool.

@ Chaos... stop being ridiculous. Yes, I suppose it's stereotypical to say that it feels good to stimulate the penis, and owners of penises enjoy the stimulation... but only if by "stereotypical" you mean "obvious", "accurate", and "commonly accepted".

This is exactly right. I'm a lesbian too. I've had hetero intercourse and it feels very good to me. I'm not that sexually attracted to men, but I agree w/Skullery, it can be an amazing way to make super close intimate contact with another person. I enjoy being bodily that close though. And I think that because the inside of the vagina is pretty, well, vulnerable, I feel like I am welcoming someone I like into my deepest place. I can understand how that's not an appealing idea for everyone, but for a sexual person, it's pretty great.

And the reason a man would "pressure" a woman to have intercourse is because he's a jerk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sally

If it's not all that pleasurable, physically, for many women, I don't understand why they are pressured so heavily into having intercourse.

Men enjoy intercourse because it involves their penises. That's why.

That's a little...well, stereotypical, don't you think? That's hardly an accurate reason.

Is it stereotypical to assume that men have penises? Pardon me for assuming that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Chaos Heart

If it's not all that pleasurable, physically, for many women, I don't understand why they are pressured so heavily into having intercourse.

Men enjoy intercourse because it involves their penises. That's why.

That's a little...well, stereotypical, don't you think? That's hardly an accurate reason.

Is it stereotypical to assume that men have penises? Pardon me for assuming that.

Ahem:

No, I mean it's inaccurate to say men want sex solely because they have a penis. That's drastically oversimplifying things. That's like saying women want to be pregnant because they have a womb. Which, I'm sure you will agree, is ridiculous. So you might want to take your own comments and direct them at yourself.

As I said, you are over simplifying things in a rather jerkish fashion. Do women want sex because they have a vagina? No, it's far more complicated than that. Men aren't some brain dead drones who, because they have a penis, automatically want sex because of it. That's strikingly rude of you to insinuate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skullery Maid

No it's not. Sally's point was quite simple. Women may not want penetrative sex with the same enthusiasm that men do, and the reason for that is: penis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Chaos Heart

No it's not.

Yes, it is.

Sally's point was quite simple.

I never said it wasn't.

I just said it was wrong, and it was too simple of an explanation.

Women may not want penetrative sex with the same enthusiasm that men do, and the reason for that is: penis.

Alright. I guess we'll just ignore any other plethora of reasons someone may or may not want penetrative sex. Yup. It's all about that penis, and nothing more. Even if penetrative sex is actually something the man doesn't want, naw, he wants it cause he has a penis! :rolleyes:

Do you see the problem with your logic yet? Men are not some mindless slaves to their penis. Their desire for sex could in some ways be, shocker, not about their penis! For instance, you seem so willing to accept that the closeness that comes vaginal sex is something that women enjoy. Why not so with men? If it's possible for women to have vaginal sex out of a desire to please their partner, why not so with men? Oh right, because they have a penis, so that can be the only reason, huh?

Why are men the stereotyped sex-crazed, 'do anything to stick your penis in it' beings in your eyes, but women can have an array of complex feelings about sex, both positive and negative, that may lead her to going one direction or another in deciding to have sex? Why are men excluded from this in your eyes? Because your world certainly does not match up with reality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skullery Maid

Sigh. This is the last thing I'm writing on this topic, dude.

Have they taught you what a "but for" argument is in school yet? It's generally a legal argument to determine comparable negligence. Regardless of all the other reasons, penetrative sex exists because of the penis/vagina match, and men are particularly driven to it because of the penis. Here's how the argument goes: But for the penis, penetrative sex wouldn't be as ubiquitous as it is. Not to say that people wouldn't still do it, not to say there aren't other motivations, but... but for the penis, it wouldn't be the end-all, be-all defining sex act.

SIGH.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
man-in-black

I'm with SkulleryMaid on that one. Not just cuz I also agreed with some of her other stuff too.

If the other guy's tool is even close to my size, I play top. It's not, Chaos Heart, that the old pun has been brought up about what head men think with. (and if it is, I'm looking the other way, because whatever). It's that in having penises, there's no pain for our part of sex. We're the cowboys by default, so every time we play cowboys and indians, we're gonna win. Cops and robbers is another story (and THAT is when they hurt us back, jk, jk).

Rhysie, please disregard the cowboys and indians thing. I think the parameters of that study are kind of slanted. I think at the end of the day the percentage of (sexually active) women who are getting good sex is more than 30%. Not to mention, there are pheromones that come into play when you're doing the wild thing, that increase the underlying emotional bonds that people don't readily think about (but still affect them). Perhaps friendly to playfully amorous wrestling would do the same thing. Sometimes people also look upon their first sexual encounter with a new partner as a kind of first impression. If a mate is hard to get along with but they perform well in bed, some will choose to keep this person around, for good or for ill. I think I forgot your question, but I don't think now it was addressed to me anyway. That whole first impression part, btw, is not at all relevant to virginity. If a guy is hounding a girl for her virginity, then I'd agree with your diction "pressure". Still don't know how to handle my asex-girlfriend's virginity. I so don't wanna hurt her and she lets me take it out on other people- so no pressure on her, but I can tell she's curious... did I mention she's beautiful and I love her? I know she'd do it to make me happy, but I want her first time to be special. Wow, this has rambled a bit. Was your question about the vagina-centric nature of heterosexual intercourse? I feel terribly lost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skullery Maid

Whoa, your girlfriend is a virgin, huh? There have been some heated discussions about virginity on here lately. I'm inclined to agree with you... having sex with a virgin places slightly more responsibility on the experienced party, because obviously you really want her to have a great experience. She's going to remember it forever, after all.

EDIT: Oh, and thank you for elaborating... no, I don't think men only think with their dicks or that the decision to have sex makes a person more or less intelligent. Just that in this particular discussion, we've already assumed two willing, excited parties.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Chaos Heart

Sigh. This is the last thing I'm writing on this topic, dude.

Have they taught you what a "but for" argument is in school yet? It's generally a legal argument to determine comparable negligence. Regardless of all the other reasons, penetrative sex exists because of the penis/vagina match, and men are particularly driven to it because of the penis. Here's how the argument goes: But for the penis, penetrative sex wouldn't be as ubiquitous as it is. Not to say that people wouldn't still do it, not to say there aren't other motivations, but... but for the penis, it wouldn't be the end-all, be-all defining sex act.

SIGH.

Why are you bothering to argue for the penis? The penis is not a sentient being. And even if it was, the penis's "desire for sex" is not what we are talking about, but rather, the man's desire and enjoyment of vaginal sex. Unless you are trying to insinuate the man and his penis are the same being. Which is just...I don't think I need to point of the flaws of that argument.

Yes, the penis and vagina match. That does not mean, however, that men are driven towards it because of their penis. To say so is incredibly narrow-minded, as you ignore any other possible reason the man might want or enjoy vaginal sex.

I'm with SkulleryMaid on that one. Not just cuz I also agreed with some of her other stuff too.

If the other guy's tool is even close to my size, I play top. It's not, Chaos Heart, that the old pun has been brought up about what head men think with. (and if it is, I'm looking the other way, because whatever). It's that in having penises, there's no pain for our part of sex.

1) Yes, because women can never enjoy vaginal sex. It's just torturous for them every single time.

2) This has nothing to do with the man's enjoyment of vaginal sex. Again, why is it so hard to comprehend he may enjoy it for reasons other than it pleasures his penis?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...