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what is grey/demi?


PiF

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I'm asking this because quite often I see some confusion..certianly for me

in it's basic form from what i can discover..largely it appears certianly on some demis/greys that for most of the time they feel they are asexual

until they find that someone special who they have sexual attraction for?

for me this is where some confusion comes in..it looks like for those^ the claim they are asexual most of the time is enough for them

so i ask ..if asexuality is the lack of sexual attraction then surely if you feel sexual attraction even if it's just for one person..then you are not asexual..you are just someone who rarely feels attracted to people until you find that someone special

in some respects does that have more in common with sexuality rather than asexuality???

i am genuinely curious because i am pretty sure I am not the only person who has wondered on this?

certianly some clarification would be helpfull?

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I posted this in another thread but I thought it was worth posting again:

Teagraph.png

It has its flaws but if you notice the x-axis is based on the homo-hetero part of the Kinsey scale, while the y-axis is based on the sexual part. Thus it has three reference points that can be used.

The middle area (which I haven't filled in yet) is the grey area.

As for demisexuals, I can't speak for them since I'm not one, but I think the label works the same way that the bi/pansexuals label works. If a bisexual woman dates a man, she's still bisexual. If she dates a woman, she's still bisexual. If a demisexual develops sexual attraction they are demisexual. If they don't, they are demisexual.

Hope that helps

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Grays basically are in between sexual and asexual. They experience sexual attraction, but only in specific or limited circumstances - which can be simply "less often than sexuals" for some.

Demisexuals only experience attraction with people they are in some sort of relationship with.

I would be awesome and give links but I've already left the wifi place.

I think this would be a good stickier thread to have and I can get all the resources together that I've got tomorrow and ask Tan and Fae if they'd be willing to sticky it.

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okay thansk for that bird, tea

this bit in particular...

Grays basically are in between sexual and asexual. They experience sexual attraction, but only in specific or limited circumstances - which can be simply "less often than sexuals" for some.

how does that fit in then with ..an asexual does not experience sexual attraction..but demis/greys clearly feel sexual attraction

because..although it make take that one specific person to stir the juices so to speak..isn't that the same for some sexuals..which would see demis/greys not asexual but sexual??

for me personally this is confusing..god knows what it must be like for someone just identifying or unsure what grey/demi means

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Good question PiF.

From what I understand, it's much more common for sexuals to develop sexual attraction. And it doesn't depend on things (maybe just what turns them on?).

I remember seeing a poll or thread in here that asked sexuals how often they found someone sexually attractive, and they said they pretty much couldn't count - hundreds, thousands. I'll dig this thread up tomorrow as well if I can. This isn't the case for grays. Most of the grays around here have experienced it for less than 10 people. I'll dig that thread up tomorrow as well.

So yeah, think of it like a spectrum. Asexual = zero people attracted to. Gray = a handful, a countable number. Sexual = an uncountable number.

I'm still not sure where the cutoff is between gray and sexual, myself.

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mylittlehazmat

okay thansk for that bird, tea

this bit in particular...

Grays basically are in between sexual and asexual. They experience sexual attraction, but only in specific or limited circumstances - which can be simply "less often than sexuals" for some.

how does that fit in then with ..an asexual does not experience sexual attraction..but demis/greys clearly feel sexual attraction

because..although it make take that one specific person to stir the juices so to speak..isn't that the same for some sexuals..which would see demis/greys not asexual but sexual??

for me personally this is confusing..god knows what it must be like for someone just identifying or unsure what grey/demi means

Ah, no, m'darlin' PiF. Greys and Demis are considered part of the asexual spectrum because they are effectively asexual to most of the population. Their sexual attraction is triggered most commonly by romantic or emotional attraction to another person - primary sexual attraction is define as upon a first impressions basis. Secondary sexual attraction is sexual attraction that builds up over time, or only occurs after the fact - after emotional or romantic attraction has been established.

This is not true for all gray-aces, but it is the most common type of gray-asexuality.

Sexuals are people who have the capacity to experience primary sexual attraction, therefore, a gray-ace is not a sexual.

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although more information is coming..for me anyway..it isn't clarifying things entirely

I'm trying to think of an example without some daft twat pulling me up on it...here goes

i ask a person do they drink..they say no..then i point out i know they drank with another person

they then say..well..almost all the time i never touch a drop..but when I am with that person yes i do drink

so..whilst they feel they do not drink..it's quite clear they do as the question was do they drink

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mylittlehazmat

Your analogy is flawed because you assume the result is the same. A grey-ace is drinking an ale while the sexual is drinking the lager. Or perhaps, the sexual is drinking a shot of vodka and chasing it with beer, while the grey-ace is just drinking the vodka ... with their specific person/people.

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mylittlehazmat

What does the asexual have to do with anything.

I already explained it.

Gray-aces experience secondary sexual attraction, ie. the vodka.

Sexuals experience both primary and secondary sexual attraction, ie. the vodka chased with beer.

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but they both still drink alcohol..where as the asexual drinks tea

Not all of us. Some asexuals are also ateaxuals.

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PiF... if it makes you feel any better (or worse!), I agree with you. I keep seeing "between asexual and sexual". but there is nothing between asexual and sexual. The problem I see in AVEN is that sexual is described so absurdly that everyone seems "less than". But most sexual people only feel that way for a few people, and under certain circumstances. Its not even a little bit unusual for sexual people to only develop feelings of attraction after "romantic attraction" begins. And actually, until recently, it was stereotypically female to respond that way. Geez, until the last couple decades, it was ASSUMED that women were only attracted to people they were in love with. And obviously we didn't live in a world where that was considered "asexual"... it was considered normal, healthy sexuality.

Anyway, Here's my post from another thread:

Nearly everyone is only attracted under specific circumstances. I kind of want to say literally everyone, but I'm sure there's some lone guy out there who is perpetually attracted. But otherwise, yeah, most people are only attracted to certain people in certain situations.

Honestly, unless you're close to the asexual side of things, grayness is normal. I'm not sure how to even conceptualize it, except to say that it's somewhere between asexual and sex addict... which again, is the vast majority of people. We used to just call it "low sex drive". And low sex drive is pretty common.

In re: the difference between romantic and sexual attraction... It really depends on the person. Some people are more sexually/ visually focused, and some people are more emotional/ socially focused. I have seen no evidence that one's preference for romantic or purely sexual attraction has much bearing on their sex drive. I've seen romantics with both high and low drives, etc. There may be some correlation, but its definitely not a clear cut division.

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i thought for a momment i was describing it wrong but skull..you seem to be able to get it

a similar example would be someone claiming to be vegatarian but eating white meat

again..mostly for information on those searching for the differences and for this old fart

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i thought for a momment i was describing it wrong but skull..you seem to be able to get it

a similar example would be someone claiming to be vegatarian but eating white meat

again..mostly for information on those searching for the differences and for this old fart

Totally. And I'm not saying... and I don't think PiF is either... that major variations don't exist and that those variations aren't meaningful. Looking solely at the definitions offered, however, I'm having a hard time seeing anything that doesn't describe pretty standard sexuality.

And I said it before and I'll say it again, age matters... teenagers really are being bombarded by sex and a very confining sense of "normal". I remember what it was like, and I don't miss it.

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mylittlehazmat

Um, yea.

Hello, there is something between asexual and sexual, it's called grey-asexuality. The difference, as I've explained is between primary and secondary sexual attraction. Frankly, I don't care if you don't see a difference between them, they are different kinds of alcohol, different kinds of sexual attraction.

So no, greyness is not "normal", there is a definable difference. You can argue than sexual person A is attracted to person B but not person C, and this means person A is grey-asexual, but that's a ridiculous thought process. No, people are not perpetually attracted, but that isn't what it means. A person is a sexual because they can experience both primary and secondary attraction - in the base, slightly flawed hypothetical scenario, this means that a person can look at another, and be sexually attracted to them by looking at them, and then can also feel sexually attracted to them when they fall in love, establish and emotional connection or some other such criteria. A grey-asexual experiences only the latter.

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wow a post in the grey forum that turns into a "we don't exist" thread. And on the first day -_-

Must be a record

How did you get "don't exist" out of that? From the definitions that have been offered, my interpretation is that not only does it exist, it is probably the most prevalent sexuality in the general population.

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Um, yea.

Hello, there is something between asexual and sexual, it's called grey-asexuality. The difference, as I've explained is between primary and secondary sexual attraction. Frankly, I don't care if you don't see a difference between them, they are different kinds of alcohol, different kinds of sexual attraction.

So no, greyness is not "normal", there is a definable difference. You can argue than sexual person A is attracted to person B but not person C, and this means person A is grey-asexual, but that's a ridiculous thought process. No, people are not perpetually attracted, but that isn't what it means. A person is a sexual because they can experience both primary and secondary attraction - in the base, slightly flawed hypothetical scenario, this means that a person can look at another, and be sexually attracted to them by looking at them, and then can also feel sexually attracted to them when they fall in love, establish and emotional connection or some other such criteria. A grey-asexual experiences only the latter.

The immediate negative reaction to being called "normal" gives me pause.

But, in any case. 1) not everyone shares your definition of gray-a. In fact, I've seen very few definitions that actually require falling in love as a prerequisite. But if instead of "fall in love" you mean "have an emotional connection", then I'm going to say it again:

that's fairly common.

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I'm without my resources at the moment (on my phone) and going purely on memory...but...

Isn't it just the demisexuals who don't experience primary sexual attraction? :huh:

I'm thinking of the "primary and secondary attraction" page on the wiki...pretty sure it says something like that. The demisexual page itself may also say it.

Grays can from what I know. It just requires something else...something specific depending on the person...

In my case I don't necessarily need to know the person, I just have to feel like I can trust them.

Again, I can be much much more specific tomorrow, I just wanted to comment on that.

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there is nothing between asexual and sexual.

Err...yea this is where I got the "don't exist" part.

Also, I have experienced sexual attraction once. Just once. And it was secondary sexual attraction. I was emotionally attracted to them and it kinda grew from there. It scared the hell out of me.

I don't feel comfortable calling myself a sexual because it happened years ago. As in...I barely remember it. And it happened so I guess the asexual label doesn't really fit either.

So there you go

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mylittlehazmat

My negative reaction is to this entire thread where, yes, you and PiF are implying that grey-asexuality doesn't exist, that it's just sexuality. That there is no spectrum between asexuality and sexuality. And I might have more patience if that particular air wasn't here.

And if not everyone shares my definition, hooray. And there are people who think being asexual means never having sex. What of it? And when I said fall in love, I also followed it with several other options. "Fall in love, establish an emotional connection or some other such criteria."

Do we have such patience when sexuals are busy debating the existence/validity of asexuality? No. We don't.

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mylittlehazmat

I'm without my resources at the moment (on my phone) and going purely on memory...but...

Isn't it just the demisexuals who don't experience primary sexual attraction? :huh:

I'm thinking of the "primary and secondary attraction" page on the wiki...pretty sure it says something like that. The demisexual page itself may also say it.

Grays can from what I know. It just requires something else...something specific depending on the person...

In my case I don't necessarily need to know the person, I just have to feel like I can trust them.

Again, I can be much much more specific tomorrow, I just wanted to comment on that.

I am not an authority on the subject, so I will defer to you on that one. It's quite likely I've mixed up the two, but that's what this forum is for, right?

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I'm going to give the same definition for gray-A as I gave on the KoST forum.

Similar to the dual definition model...

Gray-A:

1. Someone who experiences sexual attraction with low frequency, low intensity, in narrow circumstances, or ambiguously.

2. Someone who identifies as gray-A.

I'm going to really hammer on the possibility of low intensity sexual attraction or ambiguous sexual attraction, since they have not been mentioned up to this point. Saying that you either feel sexually attracted to someone or you don't is a binary--and for many people a false binary.

What are the essential components of sexual attraction anyway? Is it sexual arousal? Is it based on looks? Is it longing for touch? Is it sexual fantasies? Is it limerence? Is it a certain level of intensity? I'm not sure there is any essential characteristic of sexual attraction. Because most people experience all these things together, they never have to worry about what to call it if someone experiences only one or two parts.

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there is nothing between asexual and sexual.

Err...yea this is where I got the "don't exist" part.

Also, I have experienced sexual attraction once. Just once. And it was secondary sexual attraction. I was emotionally attracted to them and it kinda grew from there. It scared the hell out of me.

I don't feel comfortable calling myself a sexual because it happened years ago. As in...I barely remember it. And it happened so I guess the asexual label doesn't really fit either.

So there you go

Nor would I, if i were you. Listen, I totally get that some people are really close to asexuality and some people are really close to hypersexuality. The number of people who are just barely over the asexual line is quite small, just like the number of people who are hypersexual or sex addicts is quite small. I absolutely understand that.

But if the definition of gray-a is "anywhere between asexuality and hypersexuality", then obviously the vast majority of people are gray-a. Or, if the definition of gray-a is "must like someone to feel attracted", then still, most people are gray-a.

My issue is a definitional one.

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No problem, Hazmat, I appreciate it! Everything you've said applies to demisexuals from what I remember (I always like to double heck the definition before I post anything, gosh this is awkward).

Grays...gosh can somebody please just quote the wiki page already? Lol

I understand what is being said here. I have been wondering similar things myself lately. How many people who identify as sexual are actually some shade of gray?

I would argue - lots!!! And I know that seems weird, but think about it. Use the spectrum model for a second. Assume true asexuality is pretty rare (like we do here often). Stands to reason that with a spectrum like that - true, crazy wild, attracted-to-absolutely-everyone sexuality is pretty rare as well.

Things in between - there is your gray.

For the sake of convenience, people label themselves as what they are closest to - asexual or sexual. For asexuuals there is a bit clearer cutoff.

Grays arguably fit closest to the middle of that. Somewhat like half asexual and half sexual. So - they experience sexual attraction with a frequency somewhere between asexual and crazy wild attracted to everyone sexual.

Yes, I do believe a huge number of people are gray. But I think - using the aven triangle as a model (see upper left of this page) with asexuals as the black tip and sexuals as the white top, most people who call themselves sexual fit somewhere in the upper third or top half or something. Grays are middle third to just before the asexual tip.

I will keep thinking of ways to explain it and get a thread together tomorrow... Hope this is helping :cake: (and correct lol)

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I feel like arguing whether or not gray-As are a subcategory of sexuals is missing the point. The point is a defiance of categories. The point is... hopping back and forth over the asexual/sexual fence based on X or Y definition is a lot of work, with little reward. So why not sit where we are, fences be damned?

I honestly don't care whether I fit in the sexual category or not. I am in the position I'm in. In the position I'm in, it makes sense to associate with asexuals. It's about pragmatics, not semantics.

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Midnight-Poetry

PiF your analogy is flawed because it assumes 1 type of substance (alcohol) there are two types of sexual attraction, immediate physical and one developing over time. In general, sexuals experience both.

So, to extend your analogy to its ultimate conclusion.... you ask Someone if they drink or smoke and they say "I drink and I smoke" they are a sexual, they enjoy a cigar after their shot of vodka...

Then you ask someone if they drink, they say no, but they smoke a fine cigar when it suits them. They don't have an immediate feeling but over time develop one to specific people.

Example: If you show a group of people pictures of highly attrctive people and ask them which ones are sexually attractive, the sexuals and the demisexuals will be like "Whatever" while sexuals will have a reply. This would be a breaking point to tell the difference between a demi and a sexual.

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wow a post in the grey forum that turns into a "we don't exist" thread. And on the first day -_-

Must be a record

snore

the idea of this forum is to offer as many real life questions with real life answers for the largest group on aven..the undecided and unsure..to see what is in front of them and to make thier own mind up of which many appear to be our greys/demis/semis etc

now tea..you can carry on with your doom and gloom and try and bring everything down that you have not created yourself (hold on..anyone else remember tea saying we shouldn't have this forum ?)..you may also remember that i was quite supportive in hoping this would happen

or you can see that the more questions that have answers the better

there is a clear and good reason why grey/demis would have questions asked as the difference appears that many do have a sexual attraction..which is completely opposite to the definition of asexuality

now tea i know you like to think it's all about you.it isn't..it's about making this as informative as possible and that includes asking the obvious..as there is a contradiction here

PiF your analogy is flawed because it assumes 1 type of substance (alcohol) there are two types of sexual attraction, immediate physical and one developing over time. In general, sexuals experience both.

when did that two levels of sexual attraction come in please?..because from what i see..sexual attraction is sexual attraction..apart from those who now wish it to mean something else to suit a purpose

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