Jump to content

Sexuals, I need your feedback please


bookcase

Recommended Posts

PROBABLY TMI and tldr :redface:

So. I've been reading Aven avidly and I think I'm finally starting to "get" the sexual side of the story in a relationship. I'd love to get some feedback from sexuals here, especially ones who have been in long-term relationships with asexuals (and especially guys).

First, let me see if I got the basics right: to sexuals, sex is an important aspect of a relationship not (just) as an enjoyable physical activity but as a bonding experience, as a physical way of expressing and confirming the emotional bond.

Now, applying this to my own mixed relationship: As an asexual, I obviously don't desire my partner sexually. So the question is, what can I do to help us cope with this? From what I've read here on Aven, the following seem to make things easier:

1) Honesty. He must know what is happening.

Check. He knew I was asexual when we were still "just" friends. I gave him the full story including "it's not you, it's me" as soon as I realised he was interested, and even before I realised I was. Knowing what he could (not) expect, he still decided that he wanted a relationship with me. :wub:

2) Acknowledge my partner's sexual needs and desires.

Check. We both talk about our feelings very openly. It seems only fair that I return his full acceptance of my asexuality by fully accepting his sexuality, and express this acceptance. (I'd do this in any case, but I can say that I have much better understanding of just how important this is thanks to Aven.) I can't quite imagine how he feels, but I can at least try to understand, as he is trying to understand me. I know this is another way his feelings for me are expressed - I just can't return them on this level. It's a rough truth for him, but one he must hear, just as I will have to hear the truth if/when he feels frustrated because of this difference in our orientations (so far I've been the one worrying about this issue!).

3) Find ways to share physical intimacy. Initiate at least sometimes.

Check. Fortunately (after some work on my boundaries) it turns out that I love cuddling and kissing and will happily initiate. Not just to make him happy (I know that he loves this too), but because I do enjoy his touch, both on a physical level and as an expression of our closeness. (And yes, I know this is not quite the same as desiring sex with him but ... it's the closest I can get to that.)

4) If possible, work out a compromise on sex.

Errm :ph34r: ... for the moment, I feel I could happily try out most stuff apart from actual intercourse :ph34r: The thought of that makes me deeply uncomfortable in ways I can't quite explain, and I can't see myself engaging in it, but I do feel that other sexual activities would be another way of being with him, and could be fun and enjoyable, as being with him always is. (I'm using the conditional in this section because our long-distance relationship hasn't yet quite got there, but could when we next meet.)

5) Remind ourselves of all we do share, to put things into perspective.

Check. We're really great together on so many levels and we both realise this - and talk about it. (As I said, it's a long-distance relationship so most of the time talking is all we can do! :D)

Have I missed anything? Any thoughts or tips on what else I can realistically do to help us deal with this aspect of our relationship?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Your relationship sounds pretty dreamy! Seriously, doesn't look like you're missing anything! The only thing I can even think to suggest is something I've posted about before, and believe strongly in... "assisted masturbation". Not everyone is into it, but I know for me, just being kissed while I masturbate helps replicate some of the feelings that sex does. Just my 2 cents. :blush:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Your relationship sounds pretty dreamy! Seriously, doesn't look like you're missing anything! The only thing I can even think to suggest is something I've posted about before, and believe strongly in... "assisted masturbation". Not everyone is into it, but I know for me, just being kissed while I masturbate helps replicate some of the feelings that sex does. Just my 2 cents. :blush:

Aww, thanks :cake:

Assisted masturbation is one of the "other" activities I had in mind under 4). I remember your post (and someone else has mentioned this as well, I forget who) and I immediately thought "what a good idea, I should remember that". Practical tips like this are one of the reasons Aven is so important for me; not having these ... urges myself, it's kind of difficult to come up with ideas of my own! :P

Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you me? Everything you described sounds like my past relationship. Long distance, we were friends before, he knew I was asexual, he was fine with it when we got together, we always had lots of communication, I loved cuddles and kissing and often initiated it, and also tried some mildly sexual stuff.

You don't want to hear how it ended up... :P

But basically it depends on the person. You found the perfect balance. Now you need to go through and apply everything you've done. It *could* not work, but if it doesn't, then it's none's fault. :cake:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Umm, I've done some soul-searching and I'm pretty sure I'm not you :P

But yes, I know how it went for you, and I'm really sorry about it :cake:

That things can go wrong even when the partners have the best of intentions is not what I *want* to hear, as you can imagine, but I know it is something I *have to* be aware of.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You are clearly committed to making your mixed relationship work.

Well done, I'd say you sound like a very considerate and loving partner. :wub:

P.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys for taking the time to read and respond to my wall of text. You deserve :cake:

Kelsea, yes I know, if no. 4 wasn't so tricky none of the rest would be ... :P At least in our case, there were no unreasonable expectations of a great sex life. And it's not a problem for the moment, I know he means it when he says he's okay with this, but then again ... a couple of months is not such a long time. I'm aware that this might become a problem in the future.

(TMI again) I wouldn't say I'm repulsed, in fact I'm quite sex-positive, and I'm comfortable with my body, so logically things should be fine to say the least ... BUT, I'm still sort of ... scared? Nervous? I don't know. Basically, I'm fine with, say, handjobs etc. (well, theoretically speaking ... I've never done any of this stuff before). Anything as long as my genitals aren't involved - I've had quite a strong "nonono don't want that" reaction to being just touched there. I suppose I might get over that - I've got over a lot of things that used to freak me out and that I now quite like - but I can't assume I will. And I'm not going to make the mistake of forcing myself.

Link to post
Share on other sites
sexualwithasexual

Thanks guys for taking the time to read and respond to my wall of text. You deserve :cake:

Kelsea, yes I know, if no. 4 wasn't so tricky none of the rest would be ... :P At least in our case, there were no unreasonable expectations of a great sex life. And it's not a problem for the moment, I know he means it when he says he's okay with this, but then again ... a couple of months is not such a long time. I'm aware that this might become a problem in the future.

(TMI again) I wouldn't say I'm repulsed, in fact I'm quite sex-positive, and I'm comfortable with my body, so logically things should be fine to say the least ... BUT, I'm still sort of ... scared? Nervous? I don't know. Basically, I'm fine with, say, handjobs etc. (well, theoretically speaking ... I've never done any of this stuff before). Anything as long as my genitals aren't involved - I've had quite a strong "nonono don't want that" reaction to being just touched there. I suppose I might get over that - I've got over a lot of things that used to freak me out and that I now quite like - but I can't assume I will. And I'm not going to make the mistake of forcing myself.

I think I'm another non-male here, but I'm not very gender oriented anyways..

I think that the affection part (forget the number) will be very important. Do initiate, knowing that it communicates "i love you" in a similar way, very similar in fact, as sex does.

The last paragraph about about experimenting raises a flag for me. It's very good that you both know each other's sexuality, but for me as a sexual, having someone do sexual things 'to me' can be emotionally loaded. Cuz it's not just about fulfilling a physical urge in a relationship it's so much more complex, especially in the beginning. And even if we know something intellectually, (like: "my partner is asexual") we may be surprised by our emotions.. So if you go that route, really really listen to yourself and maybe take enough time in between activities (like weeks?) to sort out your feelings, and same for your partner. Also, I know that the idea of sex freaks out many pre-sex sexuals as well as asexuals, so there is that, but for me at least, when I was pre-sexual, I still REALLY wanted it!

Hope that helps..

Link to post
Share on other sites

Original poster, your relationship sounds like how mine is shaping up to be, and how I want it to be. Honest about my asexuality from the start. Giving them the chance to get out if they want to. Its the fair thing to do. If they decided to stay, they know what they should not expect.

I feel like I may have found the only person yet that I can be fully open and honest with and start the relationship on the right foot unlike in the past where I have hidden my asexuality and ended up in a completley horrible mess of a situation with their expectations and my excuses and general dread hanging over me ruining all our time together.

I hope ours can be as sucessful as your sounds... I just need to fully inform them and see how they react and if they can accept being with me on these unusual terms. We'll see.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I'm another non-male here, but I'm not very gender oriented anyways..

I think that the affection part (forget the number) will be very important. Do initiate, knowing that it communicates "i love you" in a similar way, very similar in fact, as sex does.

Yes, I've noticed myself how much this means to him. Even better, it has come to mean a lot to me too, so no problems here - it's not something I have to remind myself to do! :wub:

The last paragraph about about experimenting raises a flag for me. It's very good that you both know each other's sexuality, but for me as a sexual, having someone do sexual things 'to me' can be emotionally loaded. Cuz it's not just about fulfilling a physical urge in a relationship it's so much more complex, especially in the beginning.

I'd like to talk about this more. This is really what I've been trying to wrap my head around. As I wrote in the OP, I know it's not just about the physical urge (or everyone could just masturbate and be happy), but I still don't quite get the links between the physical and the emotional. I simply lack that. Then again, knowing that my partner would love to have this connection, this physical expression of our bond, makes me wish for it as well, so in fact there is a firm link between the physical and the emotional aspects of sex for me as well, just in a different way than for a sexual person. Oh, this is so complicated and I'm probably babbling :P

So how do you / would you feel about having sexual things (let's say, a handjob) done "to you", knowing that your partner enjoys them and wants to do them, although not for the same reasons as you? I think "enjoys" is probably the key word here - because it wouldn't be some sort of martyrdom, something to suffer through, but rather something nice and intimate that I would do with him (rather than just "to" him, if that makes sense ...).

And even if we know something intellectually, (like: "my partner is asexual") we may be surprised by our emotions..

It would be really helpful if you could expand on this. What kind of emotions do you mean?

So if you go that route, really really listen to yourself and maybe take enough time in between activities (like weeks?) to sort out your feelings, and same for your partner. Also, I know that the idea of sex freaks out many pre-sex sexuals as well as asexuals, so there is that, but for me at least, when I was pre-sexual, I still REALLY wanted it!

Thank you for the tips. I've definitely felt that I needed some time after each step to get used to the new feelings (including physical feelings ...), and then I could move on quite naturally to the next one. This hasn't been a problem though - we're actually forced to take a lot of time in between since we live and work in different countries :P

Link to post
Share on other sites

Enjoyment may come from sexual situations for sexuals and asexuals alike. For the sexual partner it's usually both physical and emotional, but it's also entirely possible for the asexual partner to like pleasing their significant other, therefore coming to appreciate the sexual interaction because it makes the other person feel good. It happened to me many times I'd say (not with intercourse though, never tried that). So yes.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, I just thought I would throw my two cents in here. I'm married to an asexual, and we still struggle with the whole issue, but not anything like we did for the first 25 years or so before we figured this out.

He tells me he is not acting when he does decide to initiate (and I don't initiate anymore...so he doesn't have to feel like he has to do this JUST for me or whenever I want), so I have to believe him when he tells me this. Another thread made me feel like our compromise was still being cruel to him, but he says not at all.

As far as some of the differences we have orientationwise...I don't feel as though it is much different than some of our other differing tastes. There are some things he likes to do that I might not choose to do, but now love to do with him.

I think some sexuals can adapt themselves to the other persons needs, once they know what those needs are. In my case, he doesn't want to be pestered about it. I know in the past I have made him feel guilty and bad in general. And I still get overly emotional at certain times of the month, so I am still in the adapting stages. But overall I think we are both happier about this aspect of our lives.

And good luck to you bookcase! :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

But I've talked to my ex-partner a lot about this, and basically this is what he was missing (and hopefully you will do a better job of fulfilling this stuff, than I did!)

Kelsea, thanks for sharing your experience, but I feel we've been talking past each other. Probably because the people involved and the situations are so different.

I'm a (sometimes painfully) straightforward person and if I don't like something, I say it. I have no intention whatsoever to force myself to do stuff and pretend to enjoy it. For one thing, this would be the fastest way I know of destroying our relationship, which is based on absolute honesty and direct and clear communication. I have no intention to do things that I find uncomfortable or even traumatising - what I want is to find things that we both enjoy. In fact, I'm sure my partner would be horrified at the thought of me doing anything I really didn't want to.

I'm not under any kind of pressure to live a sexual lifestyle. I simply feel that given that my partner is sexual and given that I'm comfortable with exploring *some* types of sexual activity, it makes sense that I do so and see what works for both of us. I don't feel that I am sacrificing anything by doing so, because at every moment I'm aware of my boundaries and I can trust my partner to respect them.

Basically, I don't want to "make my partner happy" by putting on an act that would make me feel horrible and that would make him feel horrible if he discovered it. I want us to be *both happy with our relationship*.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, I just thought I would throw my two cents in here. I'm married to an asexual, and we still struggle with the whole issue, but not anything like we did for the first 25 years or so before we figured this out.

He tells me he is not acting when he does decide to initiate (and I don't initiate anymore...so he doesn't have to feel like he has to do this JUST for me or whenever I want), so I have to believe him when he tells me this. Another thread made me feel like our compromise was still being cruel to him, but he says not at all.

I can't speak for him, but I think SilverKitsune put it well in this thread. Certain things can still be enjoyable, even if not sexually (provided the asexual partner is not downright repulsed by sex).

As far as some of the differences we have orientationwise...I don't feel as though it is much different than some of our other differing tastes. There are some things he likes to do that I might not choose to do, but now love to do with him.

This. I can totally relate to this. For instance, not once had I thought "I'd so like to kiss him". I consented to try because of my partner. The first time was mostly awkward, but very soon I came to genuinely enjoy it. So it's a win-win situation, I get to discover new pleasures for myself at the same time as I give my partner pleasure :) I'm not quite sure how far this can go, but the only way to know the answer to this one is to try.

And good luck to you bookcase! :)

Thank you! Good luck and cake to you as well! :cake:

Link to post
Share on other sites
sexualwithasexual

bookcase, from all you've said, I think you're on the right track with this! It also depends a lot on your partner. Hopefully he's as straightforward as you, and knows himself well.

The "emotional" stuff I was referring to is really the same stuff that you're building through affection, and I think you do understand it. So maybe it's not so confusing. I would love a "hand job" if my partner really wanted to do that with me, even if she wasn't feeling the attraction part. It's just if it's an experiment, something that may go away, that's what would be hard emotionally. Like for instance. You say you are building the same sort of relationship to 'affection shows love' as your partner.. Well, say that includes hugs. Over time, hugs don't just mean a nice physical squeeze that feels good physically, it actually comes to feel like a way to communicate love, right? It starts to mean, "I cherish you, I want you to know that you're someone special to me." And then say you decide you don't like hugging and stop that activity. That could feel pretty devastating to your partner.. it could feel like you don't love them anymore.

hope that helps.

Link to post
Share on other sites

bookcase, from all you've said, I think you're on the right track with this! It also depends a lot on your partner. Hopefully he's as straightforward as you, and knows himself well.

He's very direct and we have an explicit agreement not to beat about the bush. About knowing himself, well, I trust he does, but this situation is as new for him as it is for me. We're both fumbling. I mean, I don't think there are many sexuals out there who are mentally prepared for the possibility of falling in love with an asexual one day. :unsure:

The "emotional" stuff I was referring to is really the same stuff that you're building through affection, and I think you do understand it. So maybe it's not so confusing. I would love a "hand job" if my partner really wanted to do that with me, even if she wasn't feeling the attraction part. It's just if it's an experiment, something that may go away, that's what would be hard emotionally. Like for instance. You say you are building the same sort of relationship to 'affection shows love' as your partner.. Well, say that includes hugs. Over time, hugs don't just mean a nice physical squeeze that feels good physically, it actually comes to feel like a way to communicate love, right? It starts to mean, "I cherish you, I want you to know that you're someone special to me." And then say you decide you don't like hugging and stop that activity. That could feel pretty devastating to your partner.. it could feel like you don't love them anymore.

hope that helps.

Oh I see what you mean now, and I can see how that would be painful. But what I meant was not an experiment as in "oh okay, check, I've got this experience now and I can stop". What I had in mind was trying to see if I can get used to things and add them to my repertoire of mutually enjoyable ways of showing affection ... and if I can, that's absolutely great and I see no reason to suddenly start rejecting them. If however after a couple of attempts I still don't feel okay with doing X, then I'll obviously stop. So yes, it may go away, but in that case it will go away pretty damn soon before it even becomes good and before he gets used to it, and it will go away for a good reason and with an explanation of why.

Thanks for the feedback! :cake:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi bookcase,

First, it's great how you've described the important aspects and strategies you and your partner are considering to make this work. All your points are important, and you've even put them into correct sequential order; 1) and 2) are foundations. 3) helps a lot - skip 4 for the moment - and 5) will eventually make the relationship sustainable and fully enjoyable. For the record, i am a sexual male in a relationship with an asexual female, having been in a long-distance relationship with her for over 5 years and now living in the same city, though different apartments, for a year.

Some have issued warnings on 4) and I have to agree with those. The emotional burden of the "experimentation" is going to be quite large "just" for the purpose of finding little acts that you might both enjoy on some level. Though some acts (like assisted masturbation) might go quite a long way to simulating sex, they will never be 100% satisfactory, compared to, e.g., the kissing, that you both fully enjoy together, and the reason is, of course, the emotional side. You and your partner need to be fully aware that there is most likely no set of "compromises" that will satisfy the emotional component of sexual communication that the sexual desires.

About the emotional side of sexual interaction, i think we're a bit off track there. Everything that sexualwithasexual said is 100% correct, but i think, the reason sexual "compromises" don't really work well is because the sexual is not able to use the sexual act to communicate their affection to the asexual. The incompatibility lies not so much in the limited ways the asexual might engage in sexual acts and the lack of emotional connection, but more in the fact that the sexual cannot use this channel to express their affections to the asexual. The frustrating thing for the sexual is that they can only "receive" and are not able to "give". To the sexual, this may sometimes be emotionally so anguishing that they prefer not to engage in sexual acts at all.

All this depends on the couple, of course, and I cannot generalize, but note that this is a bit of a minefield to be treading on and quite heavy stuff to be going through with your partner regularly, so it may be better to leave well defined boundaries of physical intimacy untouched for extended periods of time. sexualwithasexual mentioned weeks. If you play around with the boundaries too much, your partner will not find time to adjust and accept, and they will perpetually have dashes of hope and rejection, which can be very stressful. Even just verbal discussion of limits of physical intimacy can be emotionally taxing for the sexual (and the asexual). Every prohibition that you utter can feel like a stab with a knife through the heart.

On a different topic, i must warn you that, for the sexual, the feeling of deprivation and frustration may suddenly rocket if you close down the long-distance relationship. When you're in a long-distance relationship there is "another reason" why you can't engage sexually, so the feeling of deprivation and frustration is mitigated. Then suddenly that other reason disappears and, despite the closeness, the sexual cannot express their love sexually, and this is very painful. However, for me, this enhanced frustration is decaying relatively quickly with time, perhaps over a timescale of half a year to a year.

OK, reading through what i've written, i think I sound very negative, but I don't mean to be. I just wanted give you little warnings I have wish I had my relationship, which has similarities to yours. Despite feeling a bit fatigued sometimes, we're still hanging in there, and perhaps my experience may aid you in case you encounter similar experiences. I think you're on the perfectly right track though. It's very heartwarming knowing that others are also trying hard to make it work. I'm very optimistic that your relationship will flourish and that you will discover innumerable wonderful things under item 5)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some have issued warnings on 4) and I have to agree with those. The emotional burden of the "experimentation" is going to be quite large "just" for the purpose of finding little acts that you might both enjoy on some level. Though some acts (like assisted masturbation) might go quite a long way to simulating sex, they will never be 100% satisfactory, compared to, e.g., the kissing, that you both fully enjoy together, and the reason is, of course, the emotional side. You and your partner need to be fully aware that there is most likely no set of "compromises" that will satisfy the emotional component of sexual communication that the sexual desires.

About the emotional side of sexual interaction, i think we're a bit off track there. Everything that sexualwithasexual said is 100% correct, but i think, the reason sexual "compromises" don't really work well is because the sexual is not able to use the sexual act to communicate their affection to the asexual. The incompatibility lies not so much in the limited ways the asexual might engage in sexual acts and the lack of emotional connection, but more in the fact that the sexual cannot use this channel to express their affections to the asexual. The frustrating thing for the sexual is that they can only "receive" and are not able to "give". To the sexual, this may sometimes be emotionally so anguishing that they prefer not to engage in sexual acts at all.

Thank you. I haven't really thought of things like this, but it makes a lot of sense. I'll definitely keep this in mind!

All this depends on the couple, of course, and I cannot generalize, but note that this is a bit of a minefield to be treading on and quite heavy stuff to be going through with your partner regularly, so it may be better to leave well defined boundaries of physical intimacy untouched for extended periods of time. sexualwithasexual mentioned weeks. If you play around with the boundaries too much, your partner will not find time to adjust and accept, and they will perpetually have dashes of hope and rejection, which can be very stressful. Even just verbal discussion of limits of physical intimacy can be emotionally taxing for the sexual (and the asexual). Every prohibition that you utter can feel like a stab with a knife through the heart.

It's difficult for the asexual as well ... I know it sucks being turned down, but it also sucks turning down someone you really care about. *sigh*

On a different topic, i must warn you that, for the sexual, the feeling of deprivation and frustration may suddenly rocket if you close down the long-distance relationship. When you're in a long-distance relationship there is "another reason" why you can't engage sexually, so the feeling of deprivation and frustration is mitigated. Then suddenly that other reason disappears and, despite the closeness, the sexual cannot express their love sexually, and this is very painful. However, for me, this enhanced frustration is decaying relatively quickly with time, perhaps over a timescale of half a year to a year.

Here's to you fully adjusting to the new situation and making the best of it! :cake: :cake:

In my case, I think I can safely say that we're in no danger of living in the same country at least until we both retire :P

OK, reading through what i've written, i think I sound very negative, but I don't mean to be. I just wanted give you little warnings I have wish I had my relationship, which has similarities to yours. Despite feeling a bit fatigued sometimes, we're still hanging in there, and perhaps my experience may aid you in case you encounter similar experiences. I think you're on the perfectly right track though. It's very heartwarming knowing that others are also trying hard to make it work. I'm very optimistic that your relationship will flourish and that you will discover innumerable wonderful things under item 5)

I didn't read your post as negative, on the contrary. It's great being able to talk to other people who can point out where there might be problems - I can think of the good stuff myself! ;) Thanks a lot, this has been very helpful indeed.

I wish you all the best with your relationship. No. 5) FTW! ;) :cake:

Link to post
Share on other sites

About the emotional side of sexual interaction, i think we're a bit off track there. Everything that sexualwithasexual said is 100% correct, but i think, the reason sexual "compromises" don't really work well is because the sexual is not able to use the sexual act to communicate their affection to the asexual. The incompatibility lies not so much in the limited ways the asexual might engage in sexual acts and the lack of emotional connection, but more in the fact that the sexual cannot use this channel to express their affections to the asexual. The frustrating thing for the sexual is that they can only "receive" and are not able to "give". To the sexual, this may sometimes be emotionally so anguishing that they prefer not to engage in sexual acts at all.

All this depends on the couple, of course, and I cannot generalize, but note that this is a bit of a minefield to be treading on and quite heavy stuff to be going through with your partner regularly, so it may be better to leave well defined boundaries of physical intimacy untouched for extended periods of time. sexualwithasexual mentioned weeks. If you play around with the boundaries too much, your partner will not find time to adjust and accept, and they will perpetually have dashes of hope and rejection, which can be very stressful. Even just verbal discussion of limits of physical intimacy can be emotionally taxing for the sexual (and the asexual). Every prohibition that you utter can feel like a stab with a knife through the heart.

I don't feel this way in my relationship. I completely understand where Pandante is coming from, but that's just not been my experience. I think it depends significantly on the asexual we're talking about... my partner knows that I express love thru sex, and so she feels that. In fact, we had "kinda sex" last night and she got choked up with the "i love you" tears. For my partner, and I'm going on a big limb of assumption here, but it seems like you as well, Bookcase, don't have a problem with the emotional component, but more the physical. As far as asexual variations, I feel like that's one of the easier to deal with.

Pandante, your description of boundary changes is very insightful! When my partner and I first started trying to work all this out, she was changing rules every week, and every time saying "this will take care of the problem", but it never did. Of course, she didn't have the self-identity or language of asexuality, which probably makes these things easier. But I will say this... it takes longer than you'd think for a sexual to truly come to terms that you're never going to come around to being sexual. My brain understands it, most of the time, but truthfully I still get really bummed out every now and again. I don't know if its misplaced hope or displaced desire or what, but every now and again it bites me on the ass. If / when this happens to your partner, don't stress. You two can talk about how to handle his disappointment or sadness. For me, I prefer to just ignore it because then my thinking brain can click on quicker and remind myself to pull my shit together.

Link to post
Share on other sites

About the emotional side of sexual interaction, i think we're a bit off track there. Everything that sexualwithasexual said is 100% correct, but i think, the reason sexual "compromises" don't really work well is because the sexual is not able to use the sexual act to communicate their affection to the asexual. The incompatibility lies not so much in the limited ways the asexual might engage in sexual acts and the lack of emotional connection, but more in the fact that the sexual cannot use this channel to express their affections to the asexual. The frustrating thing for the sexual is that they can only "receive" and are not able to "give". To the sexual, this may sometimes be emotionally so anguishing that they prefer not to engage in sexual acts at all.

All this depends on the couple, of course, and I cannot generalize, but note that this is a bit of a minefield to be treading on and quite heavy stuff to be going through with your partner regularly, so it may be better to leave well defined boundaries of physical intimacy untouched for extended periods of time. sexualwithasexual mentioned weeks. If you play around with the boundaries too much, your partner will not find time to adjust and accept, and they will perpetually have dashes of hope and rejection, which can be very stressful. Even just verbal discussion of limits of physical intimacy can be emotionally taxing for the sexual (and the asexual). Every prohibition that you utter can feel like a stab with a knife through the heart.

I don't feel this way in my relationship. I completely understand where Pandante is coming from, but that's just not been my experience. I think it depends significantly on the asexual we're talking about... my partner knows that I express love thru sex, and so she feels that. In fact, we had "kinda sex" last night and she got choked up with the "i love you" tears. For my partner, and I'm going on a big limb of assumption here, but it seems like you as well, Bookcase, don't have a problem with the emotional component, but more the physical. As far as asexual variations, I feel like that's one of the easier to deal with.

It's great to have different perspectives on this. I'm glad Pandante brought this up because it might help clear up some potential misunderstandings for me. But what you say is interesting too. I have to think about this some more, but I think I can relate to what you've said about your partner ... I sort of get and appreciate the emotional side of things ... on some level it feels really nice being desired (but only in this relationship), even while it makes me sad that I can't return the feeling. I know that in the end, how this plays out in my relationship will depend not just on how I feel about this, but also on how he feels about this, and on how he feels about how I feel, and ... :wacko:

Pandante, your description of boundary changes is very insightful! When my partner and I first started trying to work all this out, she was changing rules every week, and every time saying "this will take care of the problem", but it never did. Of course, she didn't have the self-identity or language of asexuality, which probably makes these things easier. But I will say this... it takes longer than you'd think for a sexual to truly come to terms that you're never going to come around to being sexual. My brain understands it, most of the time, but truthfully I still get really bummed out every now and again. I don't know if its misplaced hope or displaced desire or what, but every now and again it bites me on the ass. If / when this happens to your partner, don't stress. You two can talk about how to handle his disappointment or sadness. For me, I prefer to just ignore it because then my thinking brain can click on quicker and remind myself to pull my shit together.

I think having the words is very important. Even then, these things are devilishly difficult to express. But although I'm not big on labels - just the opposite in fact - it's incredible how much difference even that one word has made for me. Discussions here on Aven - comparing notes with others - have made it much easier to articulate how I feel as well. But nothing can ever make it easy.

I hear you on the difficulties of understanding the situation, when your brain gets something on a certain level but ... you don't *really* get it. I've felt like this about other things, for instance when someone died ... and yes it's a shock when the rest of you catches up with what you'd known all along. :( I suppose moments like that call for some cuddling and cake.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Bookcase, first thank you and all other posters here for another great AVEN discussion on how to deal with this. Your OP is one of the best summaries of how make a mixed relationship work I’ve seen yet.

I hear you on the difficulties of understanding the situation, when your brain gets something on a certain level but ... you don't *really* get it. I've felt like this about other things, for instance when someone died ... and yes it's a shock when the rest of you catches up with what you'd known all along. :( I suppose moments like that call for some cuddling and cake.

When I was younger and reached physical, mental, and emotional acceptance of love without sex, I would be at peace with myself thinking I made it. And this felt very similar to reaching acceptance of loss, rejection, and defeat that has occurred to me over the years. But for me there is a stark difference. Weeks, months, or years later, for no apparent reason, the dissonance always manages to creep back into my life (i.e., it bites me on the ass). After 25 years as a sexual in a mixed marriage, I’m surprised at how often I still have to struggle to accept and not be distracted by our situation. I used to think that over the years some combination of adaptation to circumstance and a natural decrease in interest in sex would make this easier. But for me at least, that has not happened and it seems that peace will always be a temporary situation. I suspect that even in the most successful mixed relationships here on AVEN, the sexual still has struggle, at least occasionally. Going back to the ol’ hunger metaphor (which for me is still the closest thing to sex) – it doesn’t matter how full and satisfied I am today (or how much cake I've had), I will be hungry again tomorrow.

Back when I thought that time would help, I used to rely on #5 and then just pushing past the bad times like SkulleryMaid. I don’t have a different approach yet, but I’m wondering if there might be a better option for dealing with these times. Your clear and hard thinking about how to make a mixed relationship work gives me hope though.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Stranger, thanks for sharing and for your kind words. I can't take much credit for the OP though, it is simply a summary of some that has been shared and discussed here on AVEN by others. I'm very grateful to the many Aven members whose insightful posts (including in this thread) mean that I don't have to learn every single thing by trial-and-error.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Stranger, it's a really good summary :) Although I have not been in my relationship as long as Stranger, I have had the suspicion that one may never get 100% comfortable or satisfied with the situation. "Peace will only ever be a temporary thing" ... I think that's true, but perhaps true of any relationship. Things will always be in a state of change, and we become wiser and better at accepting and adapting.

SkulleryMaid also pointed out how long it can take

But I will say this... it takes longer than you'd think for a sexual to truly come to terms that you're never going to come around to being sexual. My brain understands it, most of the time, but truthfully I still get really bummed out every now and again. I don't know if its misplaced hope or displaced desire or what, but every now and again it bites me on the ass. If / when this happens to your partner, don't stress. You two can talk about how to handle his disappointment or sadness.

I think I would like talking about it, but it may get repetitive for the asexual. But I think if the asexual is willing to listen and support every time during those tough phases, that would be tremendous help for the sexual.

Stranger, would you be able to quantify how the amount or frequency of the feeling of dissonance has changed over the 25 years? I'd be interested to know if it changed quite a lot but didn't taper off to zero, or if it only changed a bit and kept recurring at regular intervals. How bad are the bad moments 25 years on? No worries if you prefer not to go into details.

Link to post
Share on other sites

After 25 years as a sexual in a mixed marriage, I’m surprised at how often I still have to struggle to accept and not be distracted by our situation. I used to think that over the years some combination of adaptation to circumstance and a natural decrease in interest in sex would make this easier. But for me at least, that has not happened and it seems that peace will always be a temporary situation. I suspect that even in the most successful mixed relationships here on AVEN, the sexual still has struggle, at least occasionally. Going back to the ol’ hunger metaphor (which for me is still the closest thing to sex) – it doesn’t matter how full and satisfied I am today (or how much cake I've had), I will be hungry again tomorrow.

I think that's entirely natural. The sexual is dealing with a natural "hunger", and that hunger doesn't go away just because the mixed relationship exists over a longer period of time. I kind of doubt there's a natural decrease in interest in sex, also; in fact, if that interest doesn't find its natural surcease (i.e., sex with someone who wants it also), it can become more sharp as time goes on. To me it's similar to what happens with the asexual (which I am, and was in a very long relationship): the asexual doesn't become more interested in sex over a long relationship, anymore than the sexual becomes less interested. Emotions concerning sex can settle down, but the natural hunger (or the natural boredom/distaste) remains.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I would like talking about it, but it may get repetitive for the asexual. But I think if the asexual is willing to listen and support every time during those tough phases, that would be tremendous help for the sexual.

I feel this way as well. I always want to talk about it, and I think (but who knows for sure!) that its because, when I feel sexual desire, there's the concurrent desire to express myself, albeit sexually. When that avenue of expression is shut off, there's an almost panicky need to express those feelings another way. Hence babbling about it. But I too get the feeling that its repetitive and possibly guilt-inducing for my partner, so I try not to talk about it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Stranger, would you be able to quantify how the amount or frequency of the feeling of dissonance has changed over the 25 years? I'd be interested to know if it changed quite a lot but didn't taper off to zero, or if it only changed a bit and kept recurring at regular intervals. How bad are the bad moments 25 years on? No worries if you prefer not to go into details.

Pandante, the frequency seems to be a function of how busy I am and my wife's proximity (it's harder to be on a diet when you are next to the cheesecake). There has been no lessening with age. Sally's observation that it becomes "sharper" with time is what I've also seen. Fortunately time has brought some perspective and AVEN some understanding, which helps. But without getting into 25 years of details, the bottom line is the bad times, while different now, are just as bad and frequent as they have always been. (And because that sounds depressing let me state for the record- if 25 years ago I was shown what my life would be like now, I would have been even happier to marry her)

I can't take much credit for the OP though, it is simply a summary of some that has been shared and discussed here on AVEN by others.

Bookcase, I think credit is due for summarizing all that’s been said here before. I think I’ve seen most of the older postings where you harvested your insights, but I’ve not made it back as far as I would like (it’s a lot of reading). Others following in our path would benefit from some summary of what has been contributed by many. If AVEN ever needed a fund raiser, someone should take all this and write the book on how to have a successful mixed relationship. I think it would go over big in the self help section.

But I too get the feeling that its repetitive and possibly guilt-inducing for my partner, so I try not to talk about it.

SkulleryMaid: Amen Sister.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...