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weathered fair

Hey, anybody ever feel like the LGBT movement is more like the GGGG movement?

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sonofzeal

Male homosexuality is more "taboo" in our society than female homosexuality, or asexuality. Female homosexuality has been fetishized to the extent that it's often a bit awkward to talk about in that context. Male homosexuality is the one that people tend to have the most extreme emotional reaction against, and hence makes the best thrust for a verbal argument. If you can argue convincingly for male homosexuality, hopefully female homosexuality and bisexuality will follow naturally, while the reverse isn't necessarily true.

That said, yeah, other voices can often be marginalized in the LGBT movement, which is a shame.

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Turunah

Male homosexuality is more "taboo" in our society than female homosexuality, or asexuality. Female homosexuality has been fetishized to the extent that it's often a bit awkward to talk about in that context. Male homosexuality is the one that people tend to have the most extreme emotional reaction against, and hence makes the best thrust for a verbal argument. If you can argue convincingly for male homosexuality, hopefully female homosexuality and bisexuality will follow naturally, while the reverse isn't necessarily true.

That said, yeah, other voices can often be marginalized in the LGBT movement, which is a shame.

My opinion:

Men react like men (more aggressively) against male homosexuality, while growing like male (sexually) female homosexuality.

Women react like women (more subtly) against female homosexuality, while growing like women (socially) male homosexuality.

Prejudice against asexuality is much stronger (and by all sides, including by homosexuals) because sexuality is one of the pillars on which every culture is founded.

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horseshoe
It's definitely same-sex marriage that's the issue.

I'm going to make what I'm sure will be a fairly unpopular stance on this forum. I am a Bible thumping conservative who is dead-set against legalizing same-sex marriage.

OK, let the flame war begin!

But, first, let me explain my stance. I have no problem if people want to hook up. I have no problem if people want to couple. I'm thrilled for anyone who finds the right partner, and who chooses to commit to a monogamous, loving relationship, though I freely admit a preference for heterosexual relationships.

I also have no problem with that couple having inheritance rights, joint checking accounts, or any of the other things given to "married" couples.

BUT!!!

My problem is that marriage is a religious word. It should not be legislated. When I turned 18, I did not go through a legislated bar-mitzvah to be recognized as an adult. When I was born and named, my parents did not fill out a legal christening form at the hospital. By the same token, I do not believe that a legal joining should be intertwined with the religious sacrament of marriage. In fact, I have major issues with the duality of the wedding ceremony, as it currently stands.

Trying to associate legal and religious terminology is a powderkeg...and it should be avoided at all costs.

I've always thought that a legal marriage should be more akin to the formation of a corporation, a separate legal entity comprised of two principals. The religious ceremony is in the eyes of God...the legal side is the recognition of that entity by the State.

If a church wishes to marry people of the same sex, that is their business. If they choose not to, that should also be their business. Overruling the wishes, and in many cases the beliefs of the church, by forcing it through legislation, is a lousy way to affect change.

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CameronWM

Oh my gosh. Someone who realizes the difference between religious marriage and legal marriage! I still don't agree with your stance on same-sex religious marriage, but I don't need to.

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Nathan Blair
It's definitely same-sex marriage that's the issue.

I'm going to make what I'm sure will be a fairly unpopular stance on this forum. I am a Bible thumping conservative who is dead-set against legalizing same-sex marriage.

OK, let the flame war begin!

But, first, let me explain my stance. I have no problem if people want to hook up. I have no problem if people want to couple. I'm thrilled for anyone who finds the right partner, and who chooses to commit to a monogamous, loving relationship, though I freely admit a preference for heterosexual relationships.

I also have no problem with that couple having inheritance rights, joint checking accounts, or any of the other things given to "married" couples.

BUT!!!

My problem is that marriage is a religious word. It should not be legislated. When I turned 18, I did not go through a legislated bar-mitzvah to be recognized as an adult. When I was born and named, my parents did not fill out a legal christening form at the hospital. By the same token, I do not believe that a legal joining should be intertwined with the religious sacrament of marriage. In fact, I have major issues with the duality of the wedding ceremony, as it currently stands.

Trying to associate legal and religious terminology is a powderkeg...and it should be avoided at all costs.

I've always thought that a legal marriage should be more akin to the formation of a corporation, a separate legal entity comprised of two principals. The religious ceremony is in the eyes of God...the legal side is the recognition of that entity by the State.

If a church wishes to marry people of the same sex, that is their business. If they choose not to, that should also be their business. Overruling the wishes, and in many cases the beliefs of the church, by forcing it through legislation, is a lousy way to affect change.

I think I agree.

I mean, I think that all the benefits of married couples should be given to couples who don't get marry if they choose to - and if that happens, marriage seems quite pointless to me, unless you are religious. And if you are religious, same sex marriage is still pointless...

But, until the ability to get all the rights married people get is not given to same sex couples, we still have a problem. If what I said before doesn't happen, I think these should be an option of same-sex marriage.

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horseshoe
I still don't agree with your stance on same-sex religious marriage, but I don't need to.

My stance?

I didn't really say anything about same-sex religious marriage. All I said was that the decision should be left to the churches, rather than forcing it through legislation.

Undoubtedly some, somewhere, would perform a same-sex ceremony. In fact, I believe that a few already are. It *should* remain the church's decision.

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Blunderbuss

And where's ace? There would be even a space for it instead of life. But what the hell, Lady Gaga would have had to think more what rhymes with

ace and that was too much for her xDDD It would have just taken I have found the right place or some sh** like that, man!

Ehh. It is just a song. She got her point across. But how amusing would it be if one of her monsters said "It's not right because Mother Monster didn't sing about it!"? XD

I already warned everybody not to take it seriously.

[additional silliness, don't take this seriously ]: was somehow cut out from the quote. Eh.

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A Long Time Ago

horseshoe, my dad and I came up with a solution to the whole marriage fight a while back that has the same type of idea. It was: civil unions are the legal item and marriage is the church item. By this I mean, marriage has no legal rights (it is the religious item) and the civil union has the legal rights (but not the religious stuff). So, all couples who would currently want to get married, whether opposite-sex or same-sex or more complicated (the current marriage rules all over the place are very problematic for intersex people and trans people), would get a civil union for the legal recognition of their bond and if the went to a willing church, a marriage to have their bond religiously recognized. Obviously, currently existing marriages would be split into a civil union and a marriage. This solution, which sounds quite similar to what you said in many ways, separates the state and religious issues fairly decently.

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Olivier
It's definitely same-sex marriage that's the issue.

I'm going to make what I'm sure will be a fairly unpopular stance on this forum. I am a Bible thumping conservative who is dead-set against legalizing same-sex marriage.

OK, let the flame war begin!

But, first, let me explain my stance. I have no problem if people want to hook up. I have no problem if people want to couple. I'm thrilled for anyone who finds the right partner, and who chooses to commit to a monogamous, loving relationship, though I freely admit a preference for heterosexual relationships.

I also have no problem with that couple having inheritance rights, joint checking accounts, or any of the other things given to "married" couples.

BUT!!!

My problem is that marriage is a religious word. It should not be legislated. When I turned 18, I did not go through a legislated bar-mitzvah to be recognized as an adult. When I was born and named, my parents did not fill out a legal christening form at the hospital. By the same token, I do not believe that a legal joining should be intertwined with the religious sacrament of marriage. In fact, I have major issues with the duality of the wedding ceremony, as it currently stands.

Trying to associate legal and religious terminology is a powderkeg...and it should be avoided at all costs.

I've always thought that a legal marriage should be more akin to the formation of a corporation, a separate legal entity comprised of two principals. The religious ceremony is in the eyes of God...the legal side is the recognition of that entity by the State.

If a church wishes to marry people of the same sex, that is their business. If they choose not to, that should also be their business. Overruling the wishes, and in many cases the beliefs of the church, by forcing it through legislation, is a lousy way to affect change.

That's largely a strawman argument, because:

(1) nobody has suggested that churches would be forced to perform same-sex marriages, and indeed they are not forced to in any jurisdiction where same-sex marriage is already recognised, and

(2) marriage as an institution pre-dates all currently practised religions; it IS a legal institution (historically a means of regulating inheritance), no matter how much various religions have tried to co-opt it as their own (the Christians' most overt co-option being at the Council of Trent in the 16th century). The very fact that people of all religions, and of no religion, practise marriage should be a clue that it is in fact NOT grounded in any one religion, or religion generally. Anyone who argues that marriage originated as a religious practice needs to seriously head back to their history books, because while the idea may be appealing, it simply isn't true.

Marriage has always been a legal institution, even before the involvement of the state. If anyone needs to go find a new word for their own ceremony, it's the churches.

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Sapphie

Well this is an interesting topic.

The LGBT community has always been focused around gay men. I would like to add my opinion about why people have problems with Gay men in particular. A majority of people are generally repulsed by them because, well.. most of them act like prissy, straight women. For some reason, if a man is gay he automatically changes the way he walks, talks and throws around his hand gestures flamboyantly.

I will never understand why it is necessary for them to do this, it's completely fake and very annoying for others. It makes the people who don't understand homosexuality even more uncomfortable, and angers them. I'm not trying to be funny, but those types of gay men really do piss me off too.

I have met about two gay men in my entire life that don't annoy me. Before you think i'm a homophobe i'll add that i'm a lesbian. Of course with that said i don't like lesbians who act like men, look like men and talk/walk like them either. Where i live there are very few "butch" lesbians, the majority of them are feminine these days. BUT for gay men the majority of them are feminine acting men.

The reason society has hatred towards homosexuals (apart from being religious) is because the people who act like this are practically contradicting their own sexuality. Whether they are gender queer or not is not what i have the issue with, i refuse to believe being a homosexual automatically makes the majority of us gender queer. Loving the same gender has nothing to do with it. It's the image those people send to society about the rest of us which makes it harder for those who don't want to be seen in their light.

I myself have absolutely no understanding of why a gay man would be feminine if they are attracted to men. You would think a gay man would find masculinity attractive. The same way a straight man finds femininity attractive in a woman. Why would a lesbian be manly if they're attracted to women? And what are they hoping to attract by presenting a contradiction of what they're looking to find in a relationship?

Being a lesbian means you're attracted to a woman, not somebody who is practically a man without a penis. I would never find a masculine woman attractive considering i like women who are women. If i liked the look of men i would be straight.

I am starting to realize that the more i talk to straight people about this that they completely agree with me. They don't understand as much as i don't, and on-top of not being able to relate to their sexuality it makes things a lot worse. They tend to get annoyed and disgusted by homosexuals, because they believe they have something "wrong" with them. Mainly because homosexuals don't act like straight people do about their gender. These people can grasp the idea that Transgenders have an opposite gender identity. It's easier for them to recognize than a homosexual who acts like the opposite gender. The problem is that people then start to categorize homosexuals and transgendered people as the same, which makes things a hell of a lot worse for everybody.

There is nothing wrong with being gender-queer if you're a homosexual, but a lot of women idenitfy being a lesbian as not being the typical "girly girl". You don't have to cut off your hair and dress like a boy to let society know you're not straight. The same goes for gay men, you don't have to speak like an idiot and wave your arms around like a clone so people know that you're gay. Why can't people be themselves?

I have found myself further and further away from the LGBT community because i don't want to be classified as a tom-boy woman who has sex with a fake penis. The trouble with being a lesbian is that no male will take my sexuality seriously. Since i am a feminine woman (although i'm not extremely "girly") it's harder for men to understand my feelings rather than if i were butch. That doesn't mean i'd look or act that way to prove a point. I would rather face the hardship of society hating me for who i am regardless of having to listen to pigheaded blokes talk about how women MUST like penis and the only reason they're lesbians is because they haven't had the right man in them

I'm not sure if gay men have the same trouble as lesbians do with bisexuals. Most lesbians i know hate bi-sexuals because of the way they jump from one sexuality to another. It makes men even more convinced that being a lesbian is just some crap we make up for their pleasure. There are so many things wrong with the way other people make homosexuals look. For example, i've met many women who have been in lesbian relationships and then been with men. These women always refer to themselves saying "I WAS a lesbian", or men talk about them saying "They turned straight". You can't be something you're not. You never we're in the first place. Overall i just don't like PEOPLE who don't take their sexuality or gender identity seriously. If you are bi-sexual, don't date a man who thinks you do it for his pleasure. Make sure he understands that you value women the same way and take your sexuality seriously or vice versa. As much as people hate "Labels" It is necessary to let people know who you are, so all of us aren't categorized into the same group.

I think most of the problems with LGBT have a lot to do with people being so flaky. I would love people to take us seriously whether they hated us or not but sadly most people don't.

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A Long Time Ago

Olivier, you are quite right about marriage being very old and it originally being a way to regulate inheritance.

Sapphie, I have some major disagreement with your analysis:

First, what is wrong with a feminine man or a masculine woman regardless of their gender orientation. If a man is not innately masculine or a woman not innately feminine, why should they act as something they are not (masculine guy and feminine girl).

Second, feminine gay men and masculine lesbian women are the ones who are the most noticeable. The masculine gay men and the feminine lesbian women, who are the plurality, are not as noticed so it is relatively easy to think all lesbians are masculine and gay men are feminine.

Third, a masculine straight woman and a feminine straight man are much more likely to hide their masculinity and femininity respectively than a lesbian woman or a gay man because they do not want to be perceived as gay/lesbian and be looked down upon while the masculine lesbian and effeminate gay man don't lose that much more than they have already lost in this homophobic society if they just are themselves. Thus, we don't see the true level of masculinity in straight women and femininity in straight men that would be there if the pressure was not there.

Fourth, men who are interested in men being feminine and women who are attracted to women being masculine are not contradictions. Attraction to men/women/etc. can be quite independent of attraction to masculinity/femininity/both/neither/something else within the gender/s that one is attracted to. A straight woman being attracted to a feminine guy or a straight man being attracted to a masculine woman have not contradicted their sexual orientations either.

Fifth, for people who are bisexual, it is often easier to just avoid scorn, stigma, hatred, and misunderstanding from both the straight and homosexual communities by just saying one is straight or lesbian/gay depending on who one is partnered with than to say bisexual, so many do that. If people were more understanding and less biphobic, this would not be necessary.

Sixth, a huge proportion of people are going to misunderstand LGBTQ... people anyway so trying to police the LGBTQ... community isn't going to get one much and at the same time forces many to either be shunned by their own community or to have to go into a closet in the very community who was supposed to help them live a life out of the closet. There is something very wrong about the whole "you misunderstand, we are not like THOSE people so you should treat US well and it is OK to treat THOSE people badly" argument. It is using other people who face more stigma as a pawn to reduce one's own stigma, which is just wrong.

Oh, in case you are wondering, I am a panromantic gyn-grey-A (most attraction towards tomboys) transwoman who is a tomboy (and no, none of this is a contradiction).

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Sapphie

You can disagree with me all you like but the clear fact is that a lot of gay men put on their voice and act a certain way to fit in. And a lot of lesbians purposely try to look and act like men. If more people chose to be themselves REGARDLESS of whether it is in their natural nature to be feminine or masculine then a lot of people would be more understanding and able to relate to them. I don't see how gay men who act like women is staying true to their sexuality. If they like women so much they could always date one. There's a significant difference between a woman liking a feminine man, they don't surpass the extremities of that nature like gay men do. I can't imagine what it would feel like to be a gay man who is masculine trying to find another like himself. If only they could all just relax and act normally without waving hands around unnecessarily, pouting and speaking with manners worse than a bitchy straight girl. I'm sure being gay doesn't mean you automatically have to act and speak the same as everyone else? If they feel like women why don't they trans? I have no issue with androdgny, transgendered, genderqueer, tomboys etc. Acting appropriately and staying true to yourself is important, whether you look or dress a certain way that is comfortable for you. There is no way that being a homosexual can automatically change who you are. My point is that i have a problem with clones who purposely act this way, lose themselves and make everybody else look like they'd rather be the opposite gender. I am an asexual homo romantic woman who appreciates women who are themselves. I too feel that i have very masculine energies as well as feminine, and don't particularly feel womanly. Regardless I look feminine (not girly or excessive) And am true to myself. I'm a Lesbian so the way I see it, I'm attracted to women. There isn't anything wrong with going up and down the scale between masculinity and femininity or even neutral for that matter, but when a homosexual is practically being the other gender to prove a point, yeah it does bother me because if they're not trans or gender queer etc I feel like they do it on purpose. It's not nice for people to think transgenered people are really just gay people in disguise, either. I just believe there is something very wrong about the way people act because of their sexuality. The same goes for straight people too. Girls don't have to act stupid, forget to wear clothes and slut around and men shouldn't be Macho and derogotory either to fit in. The thing is the lgbt community is small and this is how people see us. I'm sick of being treated like the stereotype that I must be manly and wish I had a penis. I have no sympathy for gay Men who purposely act flambouyant and ridiculous that's not my problem. Feminine men don't bother me nor do masculine women, it's the fact that when somebody is truly being themselves they don't over do it and make it so obvious and blatant to others because they're relaxed. I don't care what people do as long as they don't put on a front and cause other people grief by being associated with their behaviour. It's like anything, religion, race, colour etc except the lgbt community is a minority and I'm not comfortable being associated with a majority who don't truly depict all of us.

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R_1

For example, i've met many women who have been in lesbian relationships and then been with men. These women always refer to themselves saying "I WAS a lesbian", or men talk about them saying "They turned straight". You can't be something you're not. You never we're in the first place. Overall i just don't like PEOPLE who don't take their sexuality or gender identity seriously. If you are bi-sexual, don't date a man who thinks you do it for his pleasure. Make sure he understands that you value women the same way and take your sexuality seriously or vice versa. As much as people hate "Labels" It is necessary to let people know who you are, so all of us aren't categorized into the same group.

This is where the part I disagree with you. First of all, fluid sexuality has been shown to be existing accordingly to testimonies about people whose sexuality changes gradually over time (I'm one of the people who really experience being into all sexuality and actually learn that labels are utter unneccessary). Labels aren't needed when you can show how you feel toward another person in a expressive matter. There are other ways to express your own sexuality other than labels like telling your experience with females and males and how you feel toward them while not making up a conclusion on what sexuality you belong in. They can go figure things for themselves from your experience-telling.

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Sally

You can disagree with me all you like but the clear fact is that a lot of gay men put on their voice and act a certain way to fit in. And a lot of lesbians purposely try to look and act like men. If more people chose to be themselves REGARDLESS of whether it is in their natural nature to be feminine or masculine then a lot of people would be more understanding and able to relate to them. I don't see how gay men who act like women is staying true to their sexuality. If they like women so much they could always date one. There's a significant difference between a woman liking a feminine man, they don't surpass the extremities of that nature like gay men do. I can't imagine what it would feel like to be a gay man who is masculine trying to find another like himself. If only they could all just relax and act normally without waving hands around unnecessarily, pouting and speaking with manners worse than a bitchy straight girl. I'm sure being gay doesn't mean you automatically have to act and speak the same as everyone else? If they feel like women why don't they trans? I have no issue with androdgny, transgendered, genderqueer, tomboys etc. Acting appropriately and staying true to yourself is important, whether you look or dress a certain way that is comfortable for you. There is no way that being a homosexual can automatically change who you are. My point is that i have a problem with clones who purposely act this way, lose themselves and make everybody else look like they'd rather be the opposite gender. I am an asexual homo romantic woman who appreciates women who are themselves. I too feel that i have very masculine energies as well as feminine, and don't particularly feel womanly. Regardless I look feminine (not girly or excessive) And am true to myself. I'm a Lesbian so the way I see it, I'm attracted to women. There isn't anything wrong with going up and down the scale between masculinity and femininity or even neutral for that matter, but when a homosexual is practically being the other gender to prove a point, yeah it does bother me because if they're not trans or gender queer etc I feel like they do it on purpose. It's not nice for people to think transgenered people are really just gay people in disguise, either. I just believe there is something very wrong about the way people act because of their sexuality. The same goes for straight people too. Girls don't have to act stupid, forget to wear clothes and slut around and men shouldn't be Macho and derogotory either to fit in. The thing is the lgbt community is small and this is how people see us. I'm sick of being treated like the stereotype that I must be manly and wish I had a penis. I have no sympathy for gay Men who purposely act flambouyant and ridiculous that's not my problem. Feminine men don't bother me nor do masculine women, it's the fact that when somebody is truly being themselves they don't over do it and make it so obvious and blatant to others because they're relaxed. I don't care what people do as long as they don't put on a front and cause other people grief by being associated with their behaviour. It's like anything, religion, race, colour etc except the lgbt community is a minority and I'm not comfortable being associated with a majority who don't truly depict all of us.

Well, fortunately, you don't get to choose how other individuals act. They do.

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Sapphie

Yeah sexuality can change, rather than your sexuality "changing" over time, it's more like having a greater understanding. You can't say you WERE gay, considering you never would have been in the first place. Sexuality isn't like changing your hair colour. When i was fourteen i hadn't obviously grown enough to realize my sexuality. I considered myself bisexual because I knew i was attracted to women yet didn't know if i wasn't attracted to men yet, which was complicated by the fact that i was never interested in sex with either genders and hadn't known about asexuality over the years. By the time i was sixteen i had completely realized it was only women i was attracted to and wanted to be in a relationship with. I explained this to the people who knew about my sexuality.

Hypothetically, if i had ever come to realize i was wrong and did in fact like a man, then i wouldn't tell people i WAS a lesbian. I would tell people i knew i definitely liked women throughout my life. That i didn't believe i liked men and realized i was wrong, and that i was actually bisexual.

I really don't care about anybody believing I'm wrong because I know I'm not. There are plenty of people who feel the same way i do, and i'm not talking about this to provoke people or be rude and make a fuss out of it. It's an issue that many people feel the same way about. It makes other people angry that people choose to follow an image and in turn makes a majority of people dislike them. Nobody chooses to be gay, but you do choose the way you present yourself and your behaviour.

In turn i don't wish to choose how other people act or express their gender. They can do whatever they like. I'm just telling you why a lot of people dislike gay men in particular and have far more issues drawn to them. A majority of them, and definitely the ones i see, are practically the same with their gestures, rude and tactless way of speaking and excessively flambouyant persona. There is no way there is a text book that says if your a gay man you must all act like this, but they do it and choose to act like that to fit into the gay image rather than acting like themselves.

Before you judge my opinion, go and walk the streets of Sydney. Maybe it's just this country, but i'm sure there are more like this out there.

Yes there are truly individuals who are like this, and it is their natural way of behaving and so be it but it can't be the same for everybody. I have no sympathy towards them and the way they are treated because if anybody acted excessively like that, no matter what gender or sexuality I wouldn't like them either.

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CameronWM

So... if a homosexual man were to act flamboyant, you automatically assume he is not being himself? Are you always that cynical? You seem too bitter. Lighten up and stop allowing other people's behaviors to bother you so much. Besides, they may feel comfortable acting that way.

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Sapphie

Try reading what i just wrote again. I clearly stated that some people are naturally like that. Being cynical and being fed up are two totally different things.

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The Vampire Queen

And where's ace? There would be even a space for it instead of life. But what the hell, Lady Gaga would have had to think more what rhymes with

ace and that was too much for her xDDD It would have just taken I have found the right place or some sh** like that, man!

Ehh. It is just a song. She got her point across. But how amusing would it be if one of her monsters said "It's not right because Mother Monster didn't sing about it!"? XD

We know that Mother Monster loves us all :)

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R_1

Yeah sexuality can change, rather than your sexuality "changing" over time, it's more like having a greater understanding.

My experience with sexuality is that it has always changes throughout puberty and then my current sexuality is asexual. I used to be bisexual, homosexual, and heterosexual during my 10 years of interest in the bodies of people. Yeah, I was heterosexual when I was 8 myself, but I kept that to myself. There were months where I was bisexual and there were months where I am completely heterosexual and the changes were very gradual which takes about a year, heck there were months when I was homosexual while not having interest into women at all. I was confused at the changes, but I come to the conclusion that sexuality can change over time in the sense of sexual interest. Right now I can consider myself asexual as I lost sexual interest (Never found interest into people sexually wise for months now and never did after the changes from heterosexuality to asexuality occurred for me. So that's why I say sexuality can change over time because my history points me to this very fact.

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CameronWM

Try reading what i just wrote again. I clearly stated that some people are naturally like that. Being cynical and being fed up are two totally different things.

Again, there is no point in letting it bother you. It is such a silly thing to get ticked off about.

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selfunit

I really don't feel connected to the GLBT Community. My inner search as I call it is about me and how and why I function as I do. I support them in their quest in being visible to all but for me I just want to relate to others who can understand me and maybe some day one that with like to share a loving platonic life with me. I don't go to the parades or other venues (few here anyway and I'm not crazy about this place, kind of Redneck as well). It may sound self-centered and selfish but I am looking for me a life in which I can be happy with or without someone (prefer someone). I will be having some difficult decisions coming in the future which will take all I can give but after that is all over I just want to settle down. I would like to counsel kids in school or in college about being Ace. We have many that counsel the GLBT kids but what about the Ace kids--I want it to be a positive thing for them and see them realise their dreams as well. As I said I do support them and hope we can just put it all to a rest, after all, we are All members of the Human Race, working together accomplishes so much more. Prejudice's just divides us.

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FreedomRequiresWings

Examples:

White lesbian: Ellen De Generes

Black gay man: Sylvester (openly gay in the 70s and singer of

).

Black lesbian: Tracy Chapman

Bisexual white woman: Christina Aguilera

Bisexual white man: Billie Joe Armstrong (Green Day's lead singer)

Bisexual black woman: Whoopi Goldberg

Lesbian women also identify as gay.

Just Google it! Sorry for bumping this thread but I can't believe this thread got this far and I'm quite frankly, as a member of the LGBT community, insulted by some of your replies. This post took just a couple of minutes research!

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PiF

necromancy

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RandomDent

Eh, only a few months. Nice to see a different thread for once (albeit on one of the most repeated topics).

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98slbrookes98

As a side-effect, the queer (LGBT) community has also become very sexualized. When I identified as gay I was expected to love sex and lots of it and I was uncomfortable. Now that I identify as asexual, it's like I am completely invisible and feel I have no place in the queer community although I do still call myself queer.

I have the exact same feeling. It feels like so much of the LGBT community is very sexual, and I'm just not interested in that. And as a result, I've always felt kind of like an outcast in the community. Which is frustrating, because I identify as an asexual lesbian, I guess, and would like a relationship, but sex is so not the important part of it for me.

I see where you are coming from. As an asexual lesbian I have that problem as well.

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InfiniteConciousness

I myself have absolutely no understanding of why a gay man would be feminine if they are attracted to men. You would think a gay man would find masculinity attractive. The same way a straight man finds femininity attractive in a woman. Why would a lesbian be manly if they're attracted to women? And what are they hoping to attract by presenting a contradiction of what they're looking to find in a relationship?

Being a lesbian means you're attracted to a woman, not somebody who is practically a man without a penis. I would never find a masculine woman attractive considering i like women who are women. If i liked the look of men i would be straight.

Sometimes I do wonder.

I am a trans lesbian. I present feminine and wish to date feminine women. I have no interst whatsoever in masculine women. Here femmes are pretty dayum hard to find.

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Dendritic Trees

Some aspects of the LGBT community, especially the more flamboyant and aggressively sex-positive corners are actually crossing the line into blatantly unhelpful. My understanding is that there are historical reasons for the stance, because one of the tactics used by the early gay rights movement was to be very showy to force people to get used to the idea of homosexual people and homosexual sex. But I have a friend (male homosexual) who's comment on the LGBT organization at my university was 'they're so annoying they make me wish I were straight', because there is a pressure on gay people to affiliate with these organizations to some extent.

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SSRIs Fail

I definitely agree with this. I'm a lesbian and I often get frustrated that the argument for or against gay marriage is always framed in terms of two cisgendered men wanting to do something together.

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Mirai19

I really don't understand why men get off on the idea of lesbianism... :blink:

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InfiniteConciousness

I really don't understand why men get off on the idea of lesbianism... :blink:

No, I don't either. When I hear men say i'd love to be a lesbian (no jokes, heard it a handful of times) I do wonder.

Anywhoo one thing I can't understand is that there are few spaces for females in the LGBT. I live 20 mins away from the UK's gay capital Brighton and I visit often. I find that in bricks and mortar terms there is one pub which is a place mainly frequented by females. On officail terms its not and is listed as an off scene "alternative" bar.

All the other bars seems to be male dominated and there is one thats officailly male only and one that

throws any females out between certain hours if i remember correctly. There is allso a lame only suana there.

I go because I have some freinds there and a few support groups but as a feminine lesbian transwoman I find it to be too heavily bloke orientated

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