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how and what does sex communicate?


never odd or even

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never odd or even

there seems to be so much emphasis on the communication and need for sex, yet as i can see it, sex seems to be an uncommunicative affair that, while pleasurable, is fairly animalistic.... :mellow:

what exactly does sex communicate and how does it do that?

i imagine that it is different for each instance, and the circumstances of sex (ie, one night stand vs wedding night/long term relationship sex vs losing virginity vs rape) i know those are very different examples, but i have to look at this from all perspectives.... or maybe that is too much to ask :mellow:

its not that i'm sex negative or sex positive, i'm just curious, regardless of my own feelings towards it i'm taking a detached view on it and asking some of the many questions i have teeming in my brain....

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Kurai-Tenshi_Niks

I've wondered that myself actually.

I can understand that people do it for pleasure, but as far

as communicating love..it doesn't seem to make sense to me..

:wacko:

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cthuvianace

It seems like the exact opposite of communication, in my eyes at least.

You're usually so "enthralled" by it that you can't think straight and definitely are not aware enough to communicate any emotion verbally, besides pleasure.

This is one of the many reasons why it bores me. :D

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I would imagine that just as other interactions with people communicate your interest in them or your love for them, so does sex. Frankly, I rather take the opposite view that sex can express love, just as many other interactions can also express love. I don't believe that sex has a monopoly on love, however, or that other interactions are categorically inferior in expressing love.

I think that sex, like other interactions, can communicate love for and interest in a person. In situations such as a one-night stand it may communicate nothing or nearly nothing. It would be similar to the way that you may enjoy a deep conversation with someone whom you hardly know, but your interaction with them doesn't express much, if anything, about how you feel about them.

Losing virginity can occur in any context of sex. It's simply a factor in the reason someone may want to or not want to engage in sex. It can occur in a relationship, as "casual" sex, or in rape. Rape, like other physical violence, expresses power and dominance. But there are non-physical ways to exert power and dominance over other people as well, like controlling who someone can and can't see, or brainwashing.

How does sex communicate? Like other interactions, it communicates interest in someone simply through your desire to interact with them and the enjoyment you get from the interaction.

As a disclaimer, I am asexual. I've answered this simply by viewing sex as another human interaction and extending my views of other interactions to sex.

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never odd or even

I would imagine that just as other interactions with people communicate your interest in them or your love for them, so does sex. Frankly, I rather take the opposite view that sex can express love, just as many other interactions can also express love. I don't believe that sex has a monopoly on love, however, or that other interactions are categorically inferior in expressing love.

I think that sex, like other interactions, can communicate love for and interest in a person. In situations such as a one-night stand it may communicate nothing or nearly nothing. It would be similar to the way that you may enjoy a deep conversation with someone whom you hardly know, but your interaction with them doesn't express much, if anything, about how you feel about them.

Losing virginity can occur in any context of sex. It's simply a factor in the reason someone may want to or not want to engage in sex. It can occur in a relationship, as "casual" sex, or in rape. Rape, like other physical violence, expresses power and dominance. But there are non-physical ways to exert power and dominance over other people as well, like controlling who someone can and can't see, or brainwashing.

As a disclaimer, I am asexual. I've answered this simply by viewing sex as another human interaction and extending my views of other interactions to sex.

i'm not actually saying that sex cant express love, i'm just wondering how it does.... and why its considered the number one way to express love when there are many just as valid ways....

and then i wonder why people abuse it so much and yet still persue it....

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Anything communicates love, I think, when someone wants to interact for the sake of their relationship rather than their own sake. I think that sex is considered the number one way to express love because it's culturally distorted that way. Too much emphasis is placed on sexual relationships, not enough on friendships.

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The first time you have sex with someone, you discover how they work. Actually, you do over a few times. What they like, what they dislike, how they like it. And you can tell them what you like and dislike, etc. For sexuals, it's a very bonding experience where you share something very intimate about yourself that not many people know.

Some of it you communicate through talking, but a lot of it you communicate through actions, motions, synchronising yourself, switching positions, touching different parts of each other, etc.

Sex is communication insofar as touching is communication. It's just a very intimate touch. You can say a lot by caressing someone's cheek while looking into their eyes, it's kind of that on a different level.

You can also go at various speeds that will give a different message. But really, sex isn't always communication. Just like there are people who talk only to hear themselves talk, there will be people who have sex only to feel themselves.

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biseketball

Disclaimers:

-If you are sex-repulsed feel free (encouraged even) to skip my post. I am not sex-repulsed, and feel that my response would not be as honest if I was overly careful not to offend you. There is nothing explicit (as I consider it), no specific details, but the intention is to communicate my feelings during sex so my guess is that it will make you uncomfortable if you are sex-repulsed.

-In the interest of my responses fluidity I ask that you do not find offense in my lack of political correctness. Assume that every "sex is" should be followed by a (for me, for some people, etc.). I am still learning vocabulary but this subject is something so individual no one can really make blanketed statements like I am about to make (in other words I am being a hypocrite). But, if you take this all as the sum of my experiences and opinions I have formed I hope you will be able to overlook the limits of language and vocabulary and see it as how I as a sexual (probably pansexual, still working out what I feel I should identify is but I am not asexual), bisexual, poly-friendly, woman, who has had a very mixed bag of sexual experiences sees it. See how bad that last sentence got? :-p

Sex communicates in the most simple ways possible. When we were children we made weird noises, touched things with our hands and mouth, and explored the world in a very tactile way. Sex is this for relationships and adults. By experiencing someone physically in this way I'm able to explore who they are. It can happen through something like hugging, cuddling, or laughing too. But, with sex you are as unfiltered as possible. If you are having sex with someone you truly know cares about you and accepts you, then you can be totally yourself. You can allow yourself to be so vulnerable and you can see that vulnerability in someone else. Knowing someone sexually means you know them naked, not just without clothes but without all the filters we put up in society to protect ourselves. It is the default way to get to this level of closeness and is (for me) the easiest. You dont have anywhere to hide when you are really in the throws with someone else. You can feel their pulse, you are in rhythm, can feel the pace of their breath. If you are good as a pair you feed from each others energy and feel greater together then you ever could experiencing something apart.

It is the same feeling I get as when I play music in an ensemble. People syncing up their minds and bodies to communicate with each other and the audience. You breathe together and move together. In music you have a different "language" to communicate feelings to the audience. Its like learning that there are words you never knew existed. I feel the same with sex. You can communicate in ways you can't otherwise and say things that aren't able to be expressed in other ways.

Do I think sex is the only way to communicate this? Probably not but it is what has come most easily and naturally for me. I think I could be in a mixed relationship because I think with work and true open communication you can find other ways to communicate the same things. But for me personally, sex is the easy answer and if it is mutually enjoyable then it's a great way to express those things.

What does sex communicate? Depends on the day, depends on the people, depends on the situation. Some examples from my experience "Thank you" "You are gorgeous" "You make me incredibly happy" "I'm so glad we found each other" "This feels just right" "I care about you deeply" "I want you" "Let's get this over with" "Ok, fine" "I finally feel relaxed" "Oh thank god" "Ahhh" "*sigh*"... some of those are good, some bad, and there are many more.

I guess it's a way of knowing something with someone else without having to trip over language. Of course, sex can also communicate nothing, in my experience this sex is not good and not enjoyable. If one or both or all of the people are closed off emotionally or mentally that barrier will get in the way of sex communicating anything. It can also be much more superficial and the communication then becomes superficial. Like going to lunch with co-workers. You are talking but are no where near as open as you would be in the same situation with a bunch of close friends. You might still have a great, stimulating, and enjoyable conversation. But, you walk away not much closer to those people then you started.

Hopefully that wasn't too rambling and made sense to those who chose to read it.

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Sometimes sex communicates love.

Sometimes it just communicates horniness.

Both are okay.

P.

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How it communicates love seems to be primarily from the brain, through how we think or what we think. If we perceive a spark, or a connection, or perhaps a funny feeling to go with the thoughts maybe a relationship begins and after awhile you maybe begin to share your life with someone and begin to form attachments. In your mind you think you have all these things together that create love between you, and sex is just one of the things...both because of how we're made physically (with a special psychology each) and the cultures we are in, that is by nature and nurture (outside influences). And yes, a bit animalistic; aren't we humans glorified animals anyway?

In my mind anyway.

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never odd or even

Disclaimers:

-If you are sex-repulsed feel free (encouraged even) to skip my post. I am not sex-repulsed, and feel that my response would not be as honest if I was overly careful not to offend you. There is nothing explicit (as I consider it), no specific details, but the intention is to communicate my feelings during sex so my guess is that it will make you uncomfortable if you are sex-repulsed.

-In the interest of my responses fluidity I ask that you do not find offense in my lack of political correctness. Assume that every "sex is" should be followed by a (for me, for some people, etc.). I am still learning vocabulary but this subject is something so individual no one can really make blanketed statements like I am about to make (in other words I am being a hypocrite). But, if you take this all as the sum of my experiences and opinions I have formed I hope you will be able to overlook the limits of language and vocabulary and see it as how I as a sexual (probably pansexual, still working out what I feel I should identify is but I am not asexual), bisexual, poly-friendly, woman, who has had a very mixed bag of sexual experiences sees it. See how bad that last sentence got? :-p

Sex communicates in the most simple ways possible. When we were children we made weird noises, touched things with our hands and mouth, and explored the world in a very tactile way. Sex is this for relationships and adults. By experiencing someone physically in this way I'm able to explore who they are. It can happen through something like hugging, cuddling, or laughing too. But, with sex you are as unfiltered as possible. If you are having sex with someone you truly know cares about you and accepts you, then you can be totally yourself. You can allow yourself to be so vulnerable and you can see that vulnerability in someone else. Knowing someone sexually means you know them naked, not just without clothes but without all the filters we put up in society to protect ourselves. It is the default way to get to this level of closeness and is (for me) the easiest. You dont have anywhere to hide when you are really in the throws with someone else. You can feel their pulse, you are in rhythm, can feel the pace of their breath. If you are good as a pair you feed from each others energy and feel greater together then you ever could experiencing something apart.

It is the same feeling I get as when I play music in an ensemble. People syncing up their minds and bodies to communicate with each other and the audience. You breathe together and move together. In music you have a different "language" to communicate feelings to the audience. Its like learning that there are words you never knew existed. I feel the same with sex. You can communicate in ways you can't otherwise and say things that aren't able to be expressed in other ways.

Do I think sex is the only way to communicate this? Probably not but it is what has come most easily and naturally for me. I think I could be in a mixed relationship because I think with work and true open communication you can find other ways to communicate the same things. But for me personally, sex is the easy answer and if it is mutually enjoyable then it's a great way to express those things.

What does sex communicate? Depends on the day, depends on the people, depends on the situation. Some examples from my experience "Thank you" "You are gorgeous" "You make me incredibly happy" "I'm so glad we found each other" "This feels just right" "I care about you deeply" "I want you" "Let's get this over with" "Ok, fine" "I finally feel relaxed" "Oh thank god" "Ahhh" "*sigh*"... some of those are good, some bad, and there are many more.

I guess it's a way of knowing something with someone else without having to trip over language. Of course, sex can also communicate nothing, in my experience this sex is not good and not enjoyable. If one or both or all of the people are closed off emotionally or mentally that barrier will get in the way of sex communicating anything. It can also be much more superficial and the communication then becomes superficial. Like going to lunch with co-workers. You are talking but are no where near as open as you would be in the same situation with a bunch of close friends. You might still have a great, stimulating, and enjoyable conversation. But, you walk away not much closer to those people then you started.

Hopefully that wasn't too rambling and made sense to those who chose to read it.

you need not worry about political correctness, i despise it.... so thank you for shedding it :P

that actually explained it to me a lot better than other people have done so, and for that i thank you for being so open and honest, and for writing out such a long post to explain it :D

i understand the power that sex has, and it fascinates me, repulses me and yet, i'm indifferent to it as well... i cant explain my conflicting emotions on the matter, but i just genuinely would like to know and understand more :) i take that approach to life a lot :P

what irritates me is the blatant misuse of sex in so many circumstances and their glorified portrayal to our film generation -_-

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Vampyremage

Disclaimers:

-If you are sex-repulsed feel free (encouraged even) to skip my post. I am not sex-repulsed, and feel that my response would not be as honest if I was overly careful not to offend you. There is nothing explicit (as I consider it), no specific details, but the intention is to communicate my feelings during sex so my guess is that it will make you uncomfortable if you are sex-repulsed.

-In the interest of my responses fluidity I ask that you do not find offense in my lack of political correctness. Assume that every "sex is" should be followed by a (for me, for some people, etc.). I am still learning vocabulary but this subject is something so individual no one can really make blanketed statements like I am about to make (in other words I am being a hypocrite). But, if you take this all as the sum of my experiences and opinions I have formed I hope you will be able to overlook the limits of language and vocabulary and see it as how I as a sexual (probably pansexual, still working out what I feel I should identify is but I am not asexual), bisexual, poly-friendly, woman, who has had a very mixed bag of sexual experiences sees it. See how bad that last sentence got? :-p

Sex communicates in the most simple ways possible. When we were children we made weird noises, touched things with our hands and mouth, and explored the world in a very tactile way. Sex is this for relationships and adults. By experiencing someone physically in this way I'm able to explore who they are. It can happen through something like hugging, cuddling, or laughing too. But, with sex you are as unfiltered as possible. If you are having sex with someone you truly know cares about you and accepts you, then you can be totally yourself. You can allow yourself to be so vulnerable and you can see that vulnerability in someone else. Knowing someone sexually means you know them naked, not just without clothes but without all the filters we put up in society to protect ourselves. It is the default way to get to this level of closeness and is (for me) the easiest. You dont have anywhere to hide when you are really in the throws with someone else. You can feel their pulse, you are in rhythm, can feel the pace of their breath. If you are good as a pair you feed from each others energy and feel greater together then you ever could experiencing something apart.

It is the same feeling I get as when I play music in an ensemble. People syncing up their minds and bodies to communicate with each other and the audience. You breathe together and move together. In music you have a different "language" to communicate feelings to the audience. Its like learning that there are words you never knew existed. I feel the same with sex. You can communicate in ways you can't otherwise and say things that aren't able to be expressed in other ways.

Do I think sex is the only way to communicate this? Probably not but it is what has come most easily and naturally for me. I think I could be in a mixed relationship because I think with work and true open communication you can find other ways to communicate the same things. But for me personally, sex is the easy answer and if it is mutually enjoyable then it's a great way to express those things.

What does sex communicate? Depends on the day, depends on the people, depends on the situation. Some examples from my experience "Thank you" "You are gorgeous" "You make me incredibly happy" "I'm so glad we found each other" "This feels just right" "I care about you deeply" "I want you" "Let's get this over with" "Ok, fine" "I finally feel relaxed" "Oh thank god" "Ahhh" "*sigh*"... some of those are good, some bad, and there are many more.

I guess it's a way of knowing something with someone else without having to trip over language. Of course, sex can also communicate nothing, in my experience this sex is not good and not enjoyable. If one or both or all of the people are closed off emotionally or mentally that barrier will get in the way of sex communicating anything. It can also be much more superficial and the communication then becomes superficial. Like going to lunch with co-workers. You are talking but are no where near as open as you would be in the same situation with a bunch of close friends. You might still have a great, stimulating, and enjoyable conversation. But, you walk away not much closer to those people then you started.

Hopefully that wasn't too rambling and made sense to those who chose to read it.

I really liked the way you explained this and in a way it makes me feel a little sad, like I'm missing out. I've had sex many times and never got any of that. I have always said that I got the physical pleasure aspect of it, but all that deeper stuff is what I've always missed out on. Somehow I cannot connect the emotional aspect or the communicative aspect with the physical aspect. To me, sex does feel good if I can allow myself to relax enough to enjoy it, but its all that other stuff that I'm missing. They physical isn't connected to the mental or the emotional at all. I'm not sure if that's because I don't have the sexual attraction or the libido (I have little to none) and that's why I don't experience it, or if its something else, but the act never meant much of anything to me. Maybe its because I am somewhat sex-repulsed. In reading a description like this, however, it really hits home how I experience it so much differently and 'lesser' than many.

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biseketball

Thank you for reading it and responding, I was worried I had offended.

If you don't/can't experience what I've described, no wonder you don't enjoy it (if you do it)! It's rare to get the full effect, even for me and believe me I've tried to find the situation where it is most consistent. I completely agree that the emphasis on the physical act itself has ruined sex for many. Also, that because of how its portrayed many people who do enjoy sex never understand what it can really do. They are satisfied with the physical pleasure and leave it at that because no one talks about all the other stuff. It's a superficial understanding for a generally superficial society.

I think the reason I've enjoyed these forums so much is that asexys seem to have so much more appreciation for the million different ways to connect with someone. In my experience, people who are sexual assume that it automatically happens and that they can't get any closer then sex itself. It's so wrong. So even if you don't have the desire to enjoy closeness and love this way then you'll find another way to do it, you all are so creative. And hey, most of what you guys do you can do in a public park without getting arrested so :cake: for you. I'm hoping in my next relationship, whenever that may start, I'll be able to apply some asexy principles not from a need to not have sex but from the different perspective you've all given me.

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never odd or even

Thank you for reading it and responding, I was worried I had offended.

If you don't/can't experience what I've described, no wonder you don't enjoy it (if you do it)! It's rare to get the full effect, even for me and believe me I've tried to find the situation where it is most consistent. I completely agree that the emphasis on the physical act itself has ruined sex for many. Also, that because of how its portrayed many people who do enjoy sex never understand what it can really do. They are satisfied with the physical pleasure and leave it at that because no one talks about all the other stuff. It's a superficial understanding for a generally superficial society.

I think the reason I've enjoyed these forums so much is that asexys seem to have so much more appreciation for the million different ways to connect with someone. In my experience, people who are sexual assume that it automatically happens and that they can't get any closer then sex itself. It's so wrong. So even if you don't have the desire to enjoy closeness and love this way then you'll find another way to do it, you all are so creative. And hey, most of what you guys do you can do in a public park without getting arrested so :cake: for you. I'm hoping in my next relationship, whenever that may start, I'll be able to apply some asexy principles not from a need to not have sex but from the different perspective you've all given me.

why would you be worried of offending?? whats there to be offended at??

i like that you arent afraid to say it as it is, and are open minded enough to appreciate that there are so many more ways of communicating to someone :)

when you mentioned how you felt playing in the ensemble it really struck a chord, because [playing] music is intensely personal to me, and i love the atmosphere and communication it brings. i once experienced such a connection in one jamming experience (with someone i liked who didnt know it) that i was left shaking all over and unable to breathe regularly for the next few minutes (dont actually know how long as i went straight into orchestra.... it was an incredible experience, and one where (for once) i felt vulnerable and was ok with it... there are other experiences i've had on a larger scale in which (when playing samba) i can lose myself in the music and the implicit connection and enjoyment of it really is something that i cannot compare to in any other human experience of mine :)

i'm glad you've learned something from us, and i'm glad to say i've learned something from you too!

i think that sex is also overused and undervalued. people treat it as a commodity, and it isnt. people expect too much and dont appreciate what they have and i think that people expect life to tick a box that says conformity and when it doesnt happen they dont know how to handle it or cant accept it......

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indigowulf

what Im saying with sex, giving (a lot of this applies more to a sexual/sexual relationship, but not all):

I love you so much I want you to feel good.

I love you so much I am willing to do (X) for you.

I love you enough to take my time, touch you, explore you, get to know you and your body, learn what turns you on, and remember. (not unlike getting to know what food you like, I want to know your body just like I know your personality!)

what I'm saying having sex, recieving/both:

I love you enough to be completely vulnerable with you.

I love you so much I want us to be as intimate as physically possible.

I trust you enough to let you see me with all my walls down, so totally that I couldn't put them back up in that moment if I tried.

I feel such a connection with you that I want it to be YOU who shares this with me.

What my current partner is saying to me:

I love you enough I'm willing to explore things, even if I end up not being interested.

I love you enough I want you to feel good, even if I get nothing physically out of it.

I know you trust me and are willing to let me see you vulnerable, I appreciate that trust, and feel intimacy between us.

Are there people who have sex without any of the above feelings? Most certainly. Have I done so myself? Yes, when I was younger and exploring my own sexuality. Now that I am confident in that, I don't feel right having sex without having those feelings.

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Just wanted to say thanks to everyone contributing here, it's really nice to be able to talk about sex in a more real way (as opposed to in a snickery and demeaning way...the superficiality mentioned earlier really does cheapen and lessen it's deeper meaning). I was not completely aware of how awful and prevalent the bad sex message is until I came here. I'm sad sometimes that I believed so much of it, and let it negatively affect my relationship. Finding this place and reading what so many of you have to say about your feelings helps me understand my husband's perception of sex better (along with what he says himself of course). Thanks again! :)

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never odd or even

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone contributing here, it's really nice to be able to talk about sex in a more real way (as opposed to in a snickery and demeaning way...the superficiality mentioned earlier really does cheapen and lessen it's deeper meaning). I was not completely aware of how awful and prevalent the bad sex message is until I came here. I'm sad sometimes that I believed so much of it, and let it negatively affect my relationship. Finding this place and reading what so many of you have to say about your feelings helps me understand my husband's perception of sex better (along with what he says himself of course). Thanks again! :)

thanks :)

i would never want to demean sex because i think it is something that should be valued and should never be misused, as it is so often today. my aim is to understand it more and to be able to confirm or deny my many conflicting views on the subject....

i would in fact prefer to discuss it meaningfully, even if that does make me feel inadequate and like i'm missing out. i want to be able to connect on that level even if i am asexual.... even though i get quite angry and disgusted by the dynamics of sex and how gender and power are all influencing and conflicting roles in it...

i'm glad we can discuss it so openly; its very hard to get people to discuss these things, so i'm grateful to you, and all who shared/will share :)

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Member 35376

Sometimes sex communicates love.

Sometimes it just communicates horniness.

Both are okay.

P.

I very much agree on this based on my own experiences. I was about to add more but I suddenly found myself in lack of words. Early alzheimers it must be. *paranoid parrot has spoken*

pp_146571686.jpg

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  • 3 months later...
WoodwindWhistler

Sorry for extricating this old thread, but . . .

what Im saying with sex, giving (a lot of this applies more to a sexual/sexual relationship, but not all):

I love you so much I want you to feel good.

I love you so much I am willing to do (X) for you.

I love you enough to take my time, touch you, explore you, get to know you and your body, learn what turns you on, and remember. (not unlike getting to know what food you like, I want to know your body just like I know your personality!)

what I'm saying having sex, recieving/both:

I love you enough to be completely vulnerable with you.

I love you so much I want us to be as intimate as physically possible.

I trust you enough to let you see me with all my walls down, so totally that I couldn't put them back up in that moment if I tried.

I feel such a connection with you that I want it to be YOU who shares this with me.

What my current partner is saying to me:

I love you enough I'm willing to explore things, even if I end up not being interested.

I love you enough I want you to feel good, even if I get nothing physically out of it.

I know you trust me and are willing to let me see you vulnerable, I appreciate that trust, and feel intimacy between us.

Are there people who have sex without any of the above feelings? Most certainly. Have I done so myself? Yes, when I was younger and exploring my own sexuality. Now that I am confident in that, I don't feel right having sex without having those feelings.

Wow, coupled with Avistew's post, this has really shed some light on the communicative aspects of sex . . . when I was first learning about it, I thought of it as inherently selfish, because it was seeking its own pleasure. Naturally, as an asexual I was very sensitive to the divide that *can* exist between sex and love. But this, I think, stemmed partially from incomplete knowledge- for one, the exclusive "position" I viewed sex in was originally doggy-style, and that seemed so much less intimate than kissing- with eye and face contact, etc. And even though I am very repulsed by the idea of oral, especially, it makes sense to me objectively that it can achieve more specific and "personalized" and "special" stimulation for someone . . .

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what Im saying with sex, giving (a lot of this applies more to a sexual/sexual relationship, but not all):

I love you so much I want you to feel good.

I love you so much I am willing to do (X) for you.

I love you enough to take my time, touch you, explore you, get to know you and your body, learn what turns you on, and remember. (not unlike getting to know what food you like, I want to know your body just like I know your personality!)

what I'm saying having sex, recieving/both:

I love you enough to be completely vulnerable with you.

I love you so much I want us to be as intimate as physically possible.

I trust you enough to let you see me with all my walls down, so totally that I couldn't put them back up in that moment if I tried.

I feel such a connection with you that I want it to be YOU who shares this with me.

What my current partner is saying to me:

I love you enough I'm willing to explore things, even if I end up not being interested.

I love you enough I want you to feel good, even if I get nothing physically out of it.

I know you trust me and are willing to let me see you vulnerable, I appreciate that trust, and feel intimacy between us.

Are there people who have sex without any of the above feelings? Most certainly. Have I done so myself? Yes, when I was younger and exploring my own sexuality. Now that I am confident in that, I don't feel right having sex without having those feelings.

I'm blown away. This is perfect.

And I was JUST writing about your last couple lines... I used to have sex without all that stuff too, and I think it was really important to my sexual development, but at this point, I have no intention of going back.

I wish this was pinned so it was easily accessed...

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what Im saying with sex, giving (a lot of this applies more to a sexual/sexual relationship, but not all):

I love you so much I want you to feel good.

I love you so much I am willing to do (X) for you.

I love you enough to take my time, touch you, explore you, get to know you and your body, learn what turns you on, and remember. (not unlike getting to know what food you like, I want to know your body just like I know your personality!)

what I'm saying having sex, recieving/both:

I love you enough to be completely vulnerable with you.

I love you so much I want us to be as intimate as physically possible.

I trust you enough to let you see me with all my walls down, so totally that I couldn't put them back up in that moment if I tried.

I feel such a connection with you that I want it to be YOU who shares this with me.

What my current partner is saying to me:

I love you enough I'm willing to explore things, even if I end up not being interested.

I love you enough I want you to feel good, even if I get nothing physically out of it.

I know you trust me and are willing to let me see you vulnerable, I appreciate that trust, and feel intimacy between us.

Are there people who have sex without any of the above feelings? Most certainly. Have I done so myself? Yes, when I was younger and exploring my own sexuality. Now that I am confident in that, I don't feel right having sex without having those feelings.

I'm not gonna lie, it makes me really sad to read this, actually. I have never had any of the things in this post. It's like thats what everyone else is getting out of sex, and all I get is 'this is slightly painful, really awkward, kind of gross, a little boring and super stressful'. I would KILL to have the kind of intimacy in that post... it sounds wonderful.

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what Im saying with sex, giving (a lot of this applies more to a sexual/sexual relationship, but not all):I love you so much I want you to feel good.I love you so much I am willing to do (X) for you.I love you enough to take my time, touch you, explore you, get to know you and your body, learn what turns you on, and remember. (not unlike getting to know what food you like, I want to know your body just like I know your personality!)what I'm saying having sex, recieving/both:I love you enough to be completely vulnerable with you.I love you so much I want us to be as intimate as physically possible.I trust you enough to let you see me with all my walls down, so totally that I couldn't put them back up in that moment if I tried.I feel such a connection with you that I want it to be YOU who shares this with me.What my current partner is saying to me:I love you enough I'm willing to explore things, even if I end up not being interested.I love you enough I want you to feel good, even if I get nothing physically out of it. I know you trust me and are willing to let me see you vulnerable, I appreciate that trust, and feel intimacy between us.Are there people who have sex without any of the above feelings? Most certainly. Have I done so myself? Yes, when I was younger and exploring my own sexuality. Now that I am confident in that, I don't feel right having sex without having those feelings.

Thank you so much for this statement. I was asking the same question in another post, and ended up wording it poorly and getting flamed for it, so I really appreciate this. I don't personally agree, but at least now I have a much better understanding.

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It´s interesting. I can totally understand some things which were mentioned, but I can´t understand others at all.

I´m gray-A. If I got a chance to have sex with the one man I´ve been sexually attracted to, I wouldn´t say no. But this sex would be probably still different from sex between two sexuals. So, what would (my first) sex communicate?

"You make me feel something special, something what I thought I can´t feel. You are special and that´s why I want to share with you something special - a connection of souls and bodies."

and

"I trust you. If I didn´t trust you, I wouldn´t allow you to touch me even in non-sexual way. This is my usual reaction. Don´t disappoint my trust, please. I don´t expect it will be perfect for the first time. I will not be disappointed if it´s painful at the beginning, a little strange and too quickly over. But I would never overcome my broken trust."

and

"I love you, I admire you. You´re beatiful (inside and outside). Even if you don´t think you´re perfect, you are perfect for me. You´re the nicest guy I´ve ever met. I´m happy we met. I want to make you happy. Tell me how I can make you happy."

but

"I have boundaries which are not "normal". I want to do with you things which I don´t want to do with anyone else, but it doesn´t mean I will be able to do everything what you like. But I trust you so much that I believe you will not hurt me."

And now some comments to things mentioned in other posts which I don´t understand:

I don´t want to feel vulnerable. I want to feel safe.

I don´t want to be completelly naked. Never, ever. <_< It makes me feel like...being mentally raped...or I don´t know how to describe it better. I need some privacy even in the most intimate situation.

I don´t get this one:

"I love you enough I want you to feel good, even if I get nothing physically out of it." I would never ask my partner for something which he wouldn´t really enjoy. And I don´t want to be forced into anything what I don´t want to do. IMO both partners should enjoy it, not only one of them.

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And now some comments to things mentioned in other posts which I don´t understand:

I don´t want to feel vulnerable. I want to feel safe.

I don´t want to be completely naked. Never, ever. <_< It makes me feel like...being mentally raped...or I don´t know how to describe it better. I need some privacy even in the most intimate situation.

Interesting. I think it takes some practice to learn that you are safe when you are vulnerable. I have never been hurt sexually, so I've never had an external reason to feel unsafe. We all have internal fears however, and those internal fears, I think, disappear over time with repeated exposure with someone who respects and honors your vulnerability.

I don´t get this one:

"I love you enough I want you to feel good, even if I get nothing physically out of it." I would never ask my partner for something which he wouldn´t really enjoy. And I don´t want to be forced into anything what I don´t want to do. IMO both partners should enjoy it, not only one of them.

This strikes me as odd. I do all kinds of things my partner enjoys... she's really into horses, for example, and i sit and listen to her gab about her horses, and sometimes I go out riding with her, and I enjoy it because its something we do together, and it's mildly fun for me, I guess, but I'd never choose to do it on my own. But when we're together, its better, and it means a lot to her to share it with me. I enjoy it, but not the way she enjoys it, and additionally I enjoy it because she enjoys it.

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And now some comments to things mentioned in other posts which I don´t understand:

I don´t want to feel vulnerable. I want to feel safe.

I don´t want to be completely naked. Never, ever. <_< It makes me feel like...being mentally raped...or I don´t know how to describe it better. I need some privacy even in the most intimate situation.

Interesting. I think it takes some practice to learn that you are safe when you are vulnerable. I have never been hurt sexually, so I've never had an external reason to feel unsafe. We all have internal fears however, and those internal fears, I think, disappear over time with repeated exposure with someone who respects and honors your vulnerability.

I´ve never been hurt sexualy either but my personal feelings are just that "vulnerable" and "safe" are in contradiction.

I can feel either vulnerable or safe. I can feel safe in the situation where I would usually feel vulnerable. But I can´t feel both in the same time. It makes no sense to me.

I don´t get this one:

"I love you enough I want you to feel good, even if I get nothing physically out of it." I would never ask my partner for something which he wouldn´t really enjoy. And I don´t want to be forced into anything what I don´t want to do. IMO both partners should enjoy it, not only one of them.

This strikes me as odd. I do all kinds of things my partner enjoys... she's really into horses, for example, and i sit and listen to her gab about her horses, and sometimes I go out riding with her, and I enjoy it because its something we do together, and it's mildly fun for me, I guess, but I'd never choose to do it on my own. But when we're together, its better, and it means a lot to her to share it with me. I enjoy it, but not the way she enjoys it, and additionally I enjoy it because she enjoys it.

Don´t talk about horse riding. :lol: :lol: I thought this thread was about sex, so I was talking about sex, not about sharing hobbies. I wouldn´t for example demand oral sex if my partner wasn´t really into it. Only the idea of him doing it with horrible bleah-meh-feeling makes me feel like a sh*t.

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Don´t talk about horse riding. :lol: :lol: I thought this thread was about sex, so I was talking about sex, not about sharing hobbies. I wouldn´t for example demand oral sex if my partner wasn´t really into it. Only the idea of him doing it with horrible bleah-meh-feeling makes me feel like a sh*t.

All that tells me is that you feel indifferent to horseback riding but adverse to sex. But a lot of people are simply indifferent to sex, so there's no unpleasantness about doing it. And certainly when talking about "demanding", yeah, that's pretty shitty, but what about simply requesting?

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I think sometimes it's because you trust someone, you feel safe with them, that you're willing to make yourself vulnerable in front of them. I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

I'm vulnerable to stab wounds when I don't wear armour, but I still feel safe if my partner is holding a knife for cooking, for instance. I would not feel safe if it was a random stranger holding a knife for no reason. But how vulnerable I am to the knife, were it to be used against me, is the same. My skin doesn't become more or less resistant. What changes is how safe and comfortable I feel.

Imagine wearing an armour constantly. You start trusting someone enough that you remove it in front of them, making yourself vulnerable. But that's because you feel safe enough to do it. It's about trust.

It's a similar idea there. If you don't feel safe doing it, then you shouldn't do it. If you do though, it shows you feel safe, and that can make two people closer.

About the "doing things not for your own benefit", people do things for one another all the time. Pick up a book for them, cook for them, do the laundry. You don't enjoy the activity inherently, or at least most people don't enjoy all of them, although they might enjoy one or two. But doing it for someone you love, you get something out of it. You know they'll enjoy that book you got out of your way to get. You know they'll enjoy that meal you cooked. You know they'll be glad not to have to do the laundry after a hard day of work. That kind of things.

Some people who are not into sex might feel the same way, in that they don't enjoy the activity and wouldn't do it for their own benefit, but they enjoy what goes behind it, and therefore they want to do it anyways.

I don't think it's about being forced. Forcing someone to do your chores is wrong, too, it's slavery. But when it's something you do because you want to, even if it's for someone else, not for yourself, it's not being coerced anymore.

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never odd or even

......my personal feelings are just that "vulnerable" and "safe" are in contradiction.

I can feel either vulnerable or safe. I can feel safe in the situation where I would usually feel vulnerable. But I can´t feel both in the same time. It makes no sense to me.

i understand this very much.

@indigowulf; you seem to have enlightened us greatly, and for that i thank you. i feel touched when i read this and quite mournful that i feel i cant connect to someone like this; at least without considerable mental stress i think.

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Don´t talk about horse riding. :lol: :lol: I thought this thread was about sex, so I was talking about sex, not about sharing hobbies. I wouldn´t for example demand oral sex if my partner wasn´t really into it. Only the idea of him doing it with horrible bleah-meh-feeling makes me feel like a sh*t.

All that tells me is that you feel indifferent to horseback riding but adverse to sex. But a lot of people are simply indifferent to sex, so there's no unpleasantness about doing it. And certainly when talking about "demanding", yeah, that's pretty shitty, but what about simply requesting?

Simple request might be really simple request - you can say "yes" or "no" without any problems, quarells ect. and in this case it´s OK. People are not mind-readers, so I wouldn´t be angry only because of innocent question.

But it might be tricky because some people ask you without any evident pressure, but they expect you say "yes" and when you say "no" they start this horrible talk "WHY not? You would do it if you loved me". As if simple "no" wasn´t enough... <_< As if "no" was anything else but "no".

Or another typical horrible talk: "You already did xxx so you can do it again." (After you did xxx only to find out if you would be able to do it regularly but you found you´re repulsed by it and you don´t want to do it again.)

These are exactly the things which would make me feel unsafe instead of safe and this feeling of safety can never be renewed when once it was destroyed. And this would be the end. I´m not a fan of second, third or fiftieth chances.

It´s horrible when someone is not taken seriously by those who claim they love them. I hate it when my friends talk about this crap or about their partners cheating on them...but they still stay with them. I don´t get why. I would send them to Hell 1000X during the time when they are only crying. :(

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