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A stupid question


LadyL

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It's strange for me. I was talking with my friend the other day about my characters (as I'm a writer) and she was helping me develop them better (I am proud to say I have a nice variety considering). A song came on the radio about cheating and my friend decided, as an activity for me, I was to listen to a song and see if I had a character somewhere that could personally relate. And it was then that I realized, in all the history of all my worlds, in all my books... I didn't have a single cheater...

As I began wondering why, I came to the conclusion that I know of it as a fact - it happens and it's wrong. But I don't really understand the mechanisms behind it. I've heard reasons, but I have a difficult time wrapping my head around why it's so hard to decide not to - everyone knows it's "wrong", right? So, they have heard of others who regret it so much afterwards. Do they think they won't? I mean, how does this even go about happening? Do they just have no self control or is it so hard that they just don't care? Do they not see it as a mistake BEFORE the act?

Bad relationship - ok, they want out anyway. That's a decision. I think there are other ways out, but whatever. Maybe not.

High sex drive - it's not like their mind turns off when they see an attractive person, and in most cases, they CAN get sex with their partner, so...that leaves me extra clueless.

Being in love with 2 people - ok, I guess I can see this one. But this is not always the case.

So basically, the only way I can envision cheating happening is when the situation is already a sad one - a bad relationship they can't escape or they are the unfortunate person who fell in love with two people (in which case they should probably choose one, but I can at least see the temptation here and how it may get complicated). So I guess I have the opposite problem. ^^u

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It really depends on the kind of character you have, and how "good" they are. You have a whole range. I knew a guy who cheated on his wife on a regular basis even before they were married. It was only one-night stands and always someone different, and all the time, like several times a week.

To him, it meant nothing since he didn't love them so it wasn't really cheating. He seemed to think it was the kind of things all guys do but keep from their spouses not to hurt them for no reason.

He was an awesome guy otherwise so it was very weird how he seemed so inconsiderate in that aspect. I guess to him, making sure she didn't know what was going on was the considerate thing to do, not refrain from cheating.

Then other people are in unhappy relationships they don't want to leave and get comfort somewhere else. Some are in a relationship that's fine but there is no sex for now, they know it's temporary but they want a release so they don't start arguing, so they cheat temporarily. I've heard of guys who do that while their wife is pregnant/nursing for instance and stop afterwards, to them it's so she doesn't have to do it when she's already tired and busy with other stuff, but they wouldn't understand stopping all together, it's either they do with her or with someone else.

It's hard sometimes to put yourself in someone else's shoes and try to understand the way they think. But when you do it can be very interesting how everything works with different rules, in a way.

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Since infidelity can not objectively be committed within a relationship where monogamy has not been established as a reasonable expectation, as it is impossible to transgress parameters that do not exist

It can, actually. People have expectations of their partners even in a non-monogamous relationship, and breaking those rules is still being unfaithful. Poly relationships often have rules like informing your partner 24 hours in advance if you're spending the night with someone else, or always using barriers with people other than your primary partner. Swingers, stereotypically, expect you not to fall in love with your play partners. It's even more important in those situations to communicate what those expectations are, because they can be much more complicated and certainly are less obvious than the typical assumptions of monogamy.

I do beg your pardon. The different boundaries of non-monogamous relationships are something I am aware of, and my failure to include a caveat of that nature was an oversight on my part. It was not my intention to be exclusionary, and I apologise.

P.

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To him, it meant nothing since he didn't love them so it wasn't really cheating. He seemed to think it was the kind of things all guys do but keep from their spouses not to hurt them for no reason.

He was an awesome guy otherwise so it was very weird how he seemed so inconsiderate in that aspect. I guess to him, making sure she didn't know what was going on was the considerate thing to do, not refrain from cheating.

Oddly enough, this makes some sense to me - not as the right move, of course, but rather, as a line of thinking. The person sounds human, with normal human logic, not someone who just can't control himself. Someone making a decision, with a logical reason. Though it does make me curious if he'd still do it if he understood how it was cheating. ^^

Then other people are in unhappy relationships they don't want to leave and get comfort somewhere else. Some are in a relationship that's fine but there is no sex for now, they know it's temporary but they want a release so they don't start arguing, so they cheat temporarily. I've heard of guys who do that while their wife is pregnant/nursing for instance and stop afterwards, to them it's so she doesn't have to do it when she's already tired and busy with other stuff, but they wouldn't understand stopping all together, it's either they do with her or with someone else.

Is it really that hard to wait? How often does that happen in comparison to how often people don't cheat when their wife is pregnant? I can't imagine it's too common, right? <.< >.> ^^u

It's hard sometimes to put yourself in someone else's shoes and try to understand the way they think. But when you do it can be very interesting how everything works with different rules, in a way.

I can't agree more! ^_^ I love learning new perspectives. Sometimes, though, it can be more tricky than others. ^^u

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My misdeed began as a manipulative and calculated attempt to get my husband to 'want me', make him jealous perhaps even. I chose someone with whom I knew that actual line (having sex) wouldn't be crossed. So at the time I might have told myself that I wasn't being unfaithful because we never had ahem. When I did actually get a boyfriend, my husband had moved out (this was when I drank too much as well) and this would have been at 10 years married and no such thing as asexuality. My husband told me he loved me and I knew he did, but he didn't want to make love to me. That boyfriend didn't last, but technically I was cheating. My husband and I never divorced but we lived 8 blocks apart for a couple of years during which time I drank a lot and had a couple more one night tease stands. He kept loving me through all that. For me it wasn't so much about needing sex so bad or even comfort but feeling like someone desired me (he doesn't care to snuggle), almost like to prove to myself there wasn't something wrong with me.

This is all for you Tunes...it began as a very controlled effort to prove to myself that I was desirable and hopefully stir my husband to claim me as his wife. Of course I knew it was a mistake before I did it, I went and did it anyway.

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Is it really that hard to wait? How often does that happen in comparison to how often people don't cheat when their wife is pregnant? I can't imagine it's too common, right? <.< >.> ^^u

If I had to guess, I would say it's less common than waiting for her, but I don't have actual figures for that. What I do know is that in a straight relationship, it's common for the father of the kid to feel excluded and pushed aside because the bond with the mother is so strong and she's the one who is needed for lots of things, from pregnancy when the guy can feel completely useless and with no way to contribute since it's in her body, to the early times when he can't be the one breastfeeding.

At that point I heard that some mean feel "cheated on" as well, like the mother has a relationship with the child that replaced the relationship with them as far as investing into it, tenderness, etc, and that they only get the bad parts when she's stressed out and tired. So a way to cope with that seems to be having their own relationship as well until they can have a relationship with their child too (when they can start contributing to more of the raising and interact directly with the kid more) while at the same time getting their relationship with the mother back.

I can kind of understand it when it's presented that way. I think if couples are aware of it when trying for a child and try hard to keep their bond and create a bond between the father and child, it would be better for everyone involve. The load can be very hard on a young mother, and she'd appreciate help from the father, and might resent him otherwise, and while he feels left out and pushed away she might be feeling like he's leaving her to deal with everything and not be trying to exclude him at all.

Anyway, I think it's interesting to look at the psychology of it. It's possible to cheat because something has suddenly gone missing from the relationship, and you're suffering from it, and the lack is "adding up" and you're worried that if you wait, there will be so much to make up for that it will be impossible. So you get a fix elsewhere in the meantime so you can still be there in the relationship while you wait and not be resentful or miserable or something.

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they are the unfortunate person who fell in love with two people (in which case they should probably choose one, but I can at least see the temptation here and how it may get complicated).

That's such a confusing framing for me. Finding reciprocated love with one person is supposedly this really super wonderful thing. So why shouldn't finding reciprocated love with two people be double-super-wonderful? I just don't see where the angsting over that artificial need to choose is of any benefit to anyone, except maybe uncreative romance authors who need some unoriginal plot device to fill four books. *coughStephenieMeyercough*

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Yes, as a polyamorous person, this reasoning doesn't make much more sense to me than "it's unfortunate that you have two very good friends... you'll have to pick one and not see the other one again". Or even "I'm sorry to hear you have two kids, I guess you'll have to abandon one".

I know it's all different types of love, of course (familial love, friendship love, romantic love) but to me they're all similar in that aspect, you can feel them for more than one person at a time, and it makes the love you have for the others even better, not reduced. The idea that you'd have to tell one of the people you love and want to spend your life with "no, sorry, I flipped a coin, it will be without you and with the other guy" is just hard to wrap my head around.

All the same, I understand that some people are mono. And that's a good reason not to have a relationship with someone if there is a strong incompatibility. I wouldn't have a relationship with someone who isn't fine with my polyamory (whether they're polyamorous themselves or not). But I definitely wouldn't choose between two people, I mean if both of them told me "you have to chose", as hard as it would be I'd have to go without either, because obviously neither of them is compatible with me. I'm polyamorous, that's who I am, even if I pick once I'll have to keep picking all of my life as I meet new people, and it would be heartbreaking every time. I'd rather say no to both at once and find someone who will understand that's how I am.

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They should be held accountable.

Yes, by their partner. Not by anyone else, because it's not our business.

Lol, duh? Sorry, but did you think I called the police on them or something? Smh

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I wasn't so sure I wanted to say anything here. Mostly because I am ashamed that I was a cheater. Last night I read the thread again, and a lot had been added. I went to bed thinking about how I might add anything constructive to what had already been said; I agree with Sally and Pamcakes pretty much incontravertably, and certainly wish I had remained faithful. As Jay said rather early on, it would tear him apart...it does.

I should also mention that I told him what was going on at the time, so I did not sneak around. In my mind, cheating is cheating and I did the wrong thing (ie. made the wrong choice) regardless of my being honest and upfront about it. As Pamcakes said, the reasons or valid excuses can all be there and it is still a weakness on the cheater's part.

I don't want to go into the gory details, but just a brief overall...I was 18 and he was 22 when we married (he's asexual, and I don't think anyone had heard of it 25 years ago). We were a very high conflict couple (and still are at times but nothing like we were!) and little did I know that this affected what tiny desire he may have had to be physically intimate with me. In my puny mind, I thought we should be having sex to make-up. Alcohol also made the talking in my head worse and made it easier for me to let go of the standards I held for myself. At any rate, I had more than one incident with infidelity (you know the faulty logic...the deed's been done now, whatever). I was age 23 when it first happened and probably 30 the last time, so I have been faithful now for 13 yrs.

I don't know how to say how deeply I regret having done this to him. I don't know what else to say.

It sounds like you've worked things out with him. As long as you've confessed, accepted, and resolved, then hey, what more can one ask?

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indigowulf

Ive noticed some disagreement in this thread about what seems to be the definition of cheating. Now Im interested to know how people define it.

Personally, I define it as "anything youd do with another person *behind your partners back* that you would NOT do in front of them" aka something with an element of dishonesty and hiding it from them. There are couples who consider kissing another person cheating, there are those who dont call it cheating til it 'goes downstairs' or til you fall for the person you are with. I like my definition because it works for all sorts of semi-open relationships as well as strictly closed ones.

Anyone else have a better one to share?

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Thanks LadyL! And indigowulf I like your definition, it's pretty straight up. In my case I told him what I was doing, so it wasn't dishonest per se, but for sure I wouldn't have done any of it in front of him so I guess the hiding element was there. Therefore, I cheated on him.

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If you told him and he was fine with it, I don't think it's cheating just because you wouldn't do it in front of him. There are some things you don't generally do in front of other people. Using the bathroom is one, having sex is one too. If you have sex with someone, I think it's perfectly fine to prefer people who aren't taking part in it not to be around. And I guess it can be the same for dates, too, you want to enjoy being just with each other and nobody else, at that time. If the third person isn't involved with both of you and it's your first date, they might feel like a fifth wheel otherwise.

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If you told him and he was fine with it, I don't think it's cheating just because you wouldn't do it in front of him.

He wasn't fine with it, but he didn't stop me or threaten to leave...I wasn't sure how to say he wasn't fine with it AND just let me do it at the same time. See what I mean?

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No, I get it. In that case I would qualify it as cheating. Because it's not bad enough for someone to leave doesn't mean they're fine with it, just that losing you would be even worse. So if they make it clear that they're not fine with it and you still do it I can see it as cheating even though you're honest about it.

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It's nice to have someone else be able to see different angles on certain situations; looking back on it, and thinking about it all again wasn't so easy for me. It had been kind of filed away I guess. I had a feeling I would eventually talk about it here though, :blush: yeah, not one of my finer moments by a long shot.

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We all have moments we're not proud of or happy about. I think it's good to be able to look back and talk about them and learn from them.

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