Do asexuals feel guilt at not being able to satisfy their sexual partner?

[BlackRose]

I don't think asking him if he feels guilty for not satisfying you is a good idea. It seems like the question alone would be a guilt trip.

I thought guilt tripping was the whole point of the question...

[indigowulf]

What I meant by guilt tripping is to do or say something to cause another to feel guilt. Not the same thing as the other person causing themself to feel guilt. I feel the OP is trying to express feelings without causing offense, but having a hard time finding the words. It's hard when you aren't sure if your partner cares about an aspect of your life/relationship that you struggle with. I doubt she actually wants him to feel *guilty*, but just to know he is aware of her pain and cares. Him feeling guilt would not be the ideal, certainly, but it may ease her mind to know he feels SOMEthing. I hope there is a solution for her, and a diplomatic way for her to let him know she is feeling alone in this.

[PiF]

I have to say the thread is a bit blinkered

some asexuals do have a sexual relationship with thier partner and of those many are happy to fully satisfy thier partner

it unfortuneatly is part of the myth that asexuals never have sex

as to should a asexual person feel guilty if they cannot satisfy a partner? I suspect probably the same amount if a sexual partner..should maybe the wrong word though... would they maybe more appropriate

[itsme]

why should a person feel guilty for not wanting sex?

that's like if i were to ask do you feel guilty for wanting sex so often?

see what i mean? you should never feel guilty for who/how you are, in my opinion.........(provided you're not hurting anybody, of course)

p.s do sexuals ever feel guilty for persuading an asexual to do things against their will? probably not...(by no means am i implying that they ALL do this, of course, but i'm sure it happens)

im not trying to sound bitchy or anything, just that the question I find a tad one-sided, to be honest...

[BlackRose]

why should a person feel guilty for not wanting sex?

that's like if i were to ask do you feel guilty for wanting sex so often?

see what i mean? you should never feel guilty for who/how you are, in my opinion.........(provided you're not hurting anybody, of course)

p.s do sexuals ever feel guilty for persuading an asexual to do things against their will? probably not...(by no means am i implying that they ALL do this, of course, but i'm sure it happens)

im not trying to sound bitchy or anything, just that the question I find a tad one-sided, to be honest...

It's not that someone would feel guilty for wanting or not wanting sex, it's that they would feel guilty for making their partner unhappy. Sometimes just being who you are does hurt someone: it's an incompatibility when a sexual dates an asexual and the incompatibility can be really hurtful to both people.

And yes, sexuals do often feel guilty for persuading people to do things against their will, of course.

It's pretty much impossible to live in this world or have a relationship or friendship without hurting someone sometimes.

[itsme]

yeah, unfortunately you cannot please everybody in life. you have to just be who you are and try to find someone who will accept you for who you are (if you are looking for anybody, that is.)

personally i would never feel guilty unless i'm physically hurting somebody. if my asexuality is emotionally hurting someone, however, it would not be my intention, but i feel that i cannot change who i am.

also i feel that it is more disturbing (probably) for an asexual to perform sexual acts for a partner than it is for a partner to simply go without penetrative sex so i don't feel that say, doing it sometimes, is a true compromise. For me a compromise would be doing less unpleasant sexual acts for my potential partner.

although all this coming from an aromantic....!

in short my point is that if someone doesn't accept you for who you are then you should not be with that person, not just in relation to sexuality, but even just generally speaking. (wow that was a long speech !lol)

[Vampyremage]

why should a person feel guilty for not wanting sex?

that's like if i were to ask do you feel guilty for wanting sex so often?

see what i mean? you should never feel guilty for who/how you are, in my opinion.........(provided you're not hurting anybody, of course)

p.s do sexuals ever feel guilty for persuading an asexual to do things against their will? probably not...(by no means am i implying that they ALL do this, of course, but i'm sure it happens)

im not trying to sound bitchy or anything, just that the question I find a tad one-sided, to be honest...

I think there is plenty of guilt to go around on both sides of the equation. When I was in a sexual relationship, one of the primary reasons it ended was guilt from both of us. Guilt from myself because I was unable to continue having sex and guilt from my partner because he felt like he was pressuring me to have sex. The important thing to understand is just how important sex is to many sexuals. In my case, my partner was hurting due to the fact that we used to have sex and then something changed within myself and I was unable to have it after that point. The pressure came because he was missing something which he considered to be a vital part of a relationship. Its a lot more complicated than simply losing out on something that's a fun past time, for many sexuals there is a profound emotional component to having sex.

[Pamcakes]

If I ever thought I was persuading my partner to do sexual things against their will, I would not 'feel guilty'.

I might well feel ill, break off the relationship immediately, reccommend them to a suitable counseling service, seek counseling myself, lose a lot of sleep, and be horribly, horribly traumatised for a long time, but, no, 'feel guilty' doesn't quite cut it.

I would never, ever knowingly have any sort of sex with someone that they were actively averse to. Indifferent, sure - that's fairly common in sexual relationships, sometimes one partner really enjoys an act that the other can take or leave, so the indifferent partner does it for their partner's sake and it's not a big deal, like seeing a movie they're not particularly fussed about - but against their will? No. Never.

Even the idea is horrifying.

P.

[BlackRose]

If I ever thought I was persuading my partner to do sexual things against their will, I would not 'feel guilty'.

I might well feel ill, break off the relationship immediately, reccommend them to a suitable counseling service, seek counseling myself, lose a lot of sleep, and be horribly, horribly traumatised for a long time, but, no, 'feel guilty' doesn't quite cut it.

I would never, ever knowingly have any sort of sex with someone that they were actively averse to. Indifferent, sure - that's fairly common in sexual relationships, sometimes one partner really enjoys an act that the other can take or leave, so the indifferent partner does it for their partner's sake and it's not a big deal, like seeing a movie they're not particularly fussed about - but against their will? No. Never.

Even the idea is horrifying.

P.

Really? Even if they said "Hey, last night when you thought I was indifferent? I actually wasn't ok with that"? Seems like a strong reaction to a misunderstanding. Misunderstandings happen sometimes.

[xhalation]

I'm just going to throw this out there because I've been thinking along the same lines as the topic question. I have an asexual friend who shared with me that during his marriage they just stopped having sex all together and he just assumed she "took care of herself". I asked him, "Well did you discuss figuring out a way to satisfy her without you feeling like it's 'work' by using a toy on her?" He said, "I never even thought about that" but had she proposed it, I got the sense from him he would have considered it.

Being asexual doesn't mean you lose the desire to bring pleasure and happiness to your partner. To me, it means you don't enjoy the biological and physical act of sex. Maybe I'm over thinking this, but wouldn't an asexual bringing sexual pleasure to a partner in a manner that doesn't make them uncomfortable alleviate any feelings of guilt?

[Sally]

Having sex with someone who is averse to it doesn't necessarily mean that it is against their will. There were times when I was really averse to having sex but no one forced me to have it (i.e., it wasn't against my will). So you can't always tell when someone doesn't like it, but if they go ahead and have sex with you anyway, it's their call, and you shouldn't feel guilty.

[Pamcakes]

If I ever thought I was persuading my partner to do sexual things against their will, I would not 'feel guilty'.

I might well feel ill, break off the relationship immediately, reccommend them to a suitable counseling service, seek counseling myself, lose a lot of sleep, and be horribly, horribly traumatised for a long time, but, no, 'feel guilty' doesn't quite cut it.

I would never, ever knowingly have any sort of sex with someone that they were actively averse to. Indifferent, sure - that's fairly common in sexual relationships, sometimes one partner really enjoys an act that the other can take or leave, so the indifferent partner does it for their partner's sake and it's not a big deal, like seeing a movie they're not particularly fussed about - but against their will? No. Never.

Even the idea is horrifying.

P.

Really? Even if they said "Hey, last night when you thought I was indifferent? I actually wasn't ok with that"? Seems like a strong reaction to a misunderstanding. Misunderstandings happen sometimes.

BlackRose (and Sally, above), the keyword here is "persuade". A partner who goes along with something without ever putting up any real resistance has not been persuaded, because no real pressure needed to be applied by the other party - they are choosing to participate without evincing strong reluctance, and thus persuasion is neither required nor applied. To persuade means to change someone's mind about something, but first, they need to have an obviously resistant opinion or stance to try to change.

There's a big, big difference between (likely reflections from a first-person POV), "I let it happen, even though I really didn't want to - I should have said something," and "S/he persuaded me to do it, even though I really didn't want to - I should have stood my ground." Persuasion is active, it is conscious - simply being carried along by events is not to be persuaded, because there is no resistance offered that needs to be overcome.

To persuade = to apply social/psychological pressure to another to attempt to achieve a desired outcome.

I would never apply pressure to anyone for anything sexual they had evinced an aversion to; I would find alternatives.

P.

[itsme]

it just feels that there is a double-standard going on here. we are expected to feel guilty for not providing sex yet a sexual is not expected to feel guilty for putting consistant pressure on an asexual for sex....do you see there seems to be a double-standard?

anyway i've said my piece and will be leaving it at that now. i've made my point. <_<

[Not-You]

it just feels that there is a double-standard going on here. we are expected to feel guilty for not providing sex yet a sexual is not expected to feel guilty for putting consistant pressure on an asexual for sex....do you see there seems to be a double-standard?

anyway i've said my piece and will be leaving it at that now. i've made my point. <_<

I haven't read this thread, but I can tell you from personal experience there is heaps of guilt thrown towards sexual folks who pressure their asexual SO's for sex. Especially here on AVEN (which obviously makes sense).

And many of "us" feel guilty even without any external guilt-providers. For instance, I can't even enjoy guilt/pity sex.

[indigowulf]

it just feels that there is a double-standard going on here. we are expected to feel guilty for not providing sex yet a sexual is not expected to feel guilty for putting consistant pressure on an asexual for sex....do you see there seems to be a double-standard?

anyway i've said my piece and will be leaving it at that now. i've made my point. <_<

I could say, as a sexual, that you are attacking me with your statement. I won't because I know it's not *intended* to be as much of a blanket statement as you worded it.

Not all sexuals do pressure their partners for sex, if that partner is sexual or not. I know for a fact I don't. I know for a fact there are many other sexuals who do not pressure, and will compromise and try to be as loving and understanding as possible. The knowledge that a sexual partner is not being satisfied may possibly cause an asexual partner guilt, even if the sexual one does nothing whatsoever to encourage that guilt. It's unfair to say all sexuals "expect you to feel guilty".

You want people to avoid double standards, please be aware of your own blanket statements, and how they may seem offensive and a double standard in their own way!

[Pamcakes]

it just feels that there is a double-standard going on here. we are expected to feel guilty for not providing sex yet a sexual is not expected to feel guilty for putting consistant pressure on an asexual for sex....do you see there seems to be a double-standard?

anyway i've said my piece and will be leaving it at that now. i've made my point. <_<

I'm fairly certain that everything I have personally said in this thread directly contradicts/is in conflict with your statement.

My point is that many Sexual do feel tremendously guilty; some even feel hypothetically guilty at the thought of applying pressure, despite never having actually done it.

P.

[itsme]

that's ok, i just felt that the original question was a slight attack on asexuals, even though it probably wasn't intentional. (i still stand by my opinions)

have a nice day all

[Pamcakes]

that's ok, i just felt that the original question was a slight attack on asexuals, even though it probably wasn't intentional. (i still stand by my opinions)

have a nice day all

Yeah, I can't comment with certainty on the OP's actual motivations, but I did feel that the wording of the original question did come across as an implication that if Aces don't feel guilt for not being able to satisfy Sexuals, then they should. For all I know, that 'blamey' subtext that Aces have an obligation to fulfil Sexuals' needs and are at fault if they don't might have been entirely unintentional on the part of the OP, but intended or not, that was my reading of it.

P.

[Sally]

Persuasion, as the word is commonly used, isn't always directly by the partner. I was persuaded to have sex not by my partners talking me into it, but by the fact (and it was a fact) that if I didn't, I would lose that person whom I loved. That knowledge persuaded me. However, actually having the sex was my choice. I could have chosen to not have sex and lose that person.

If you haven't been in that position, it's hard to explain how you feel. You know that the activity is not your choice, but the penalty for not participating in the activity is not your choice either. So you do what seems least difficult.

[Pamcakes]

Persuasion, as the word is commonly used, isn't always directly by the partner. I was persuaded to have sex not by my partners talking me into it, but by the fact (and it was a fact) that if I didn't, I would lose that person whom I loved. That knowledge persuaded me. However, actually having the sex was my choice. I could have chosen to not have sex and lose that person.

If you haven't been in that position, it's hard to explain how you feel. You know that the activity is not your choice, but the penalty for not participating in the activity is not your choice either. So you do what seems least difficult.

Sally, might it be accurate to say you were persuaded, but it wasn't your partner who persuaded you?

P.

[Avistew]

it just feels that there is a double-standard going on here. we are expected to feel guilty for not providing sex yet a sexual is not expected to feel guilty for putting consistant pressure on an asexual for sex....do you see there seems to be a double-standard?

anyway i've said my piece and will be leaving it at that now. i've made my point. <_<

I have to tell you, from hanging out in sexual forums, that between sexuals if an opposite sex couple has the male partner wanting more sex than the female one, the huge amount of insults you get against the guy, and how no means no, and no wonder she won't have sex with him since he's obviously a jerk and a rapist.

Just telling you it's not all one way. Depending on where you go, and a huge bias towards females (if she's not attracted to him anymore, it's his fault, if he's not attracted to her anymore, it's his fault because she let herself go because he wasn't making her feel special).

It's not always that way of course, and you do have people taking the opposite point of view, but people with a higher sexual drive are very often devilised, made to be rapists even if they'd never force anything and are just frustrated and desperate to find a way to help. And it doesn't help that asexuality isn't that well-known, because the people with a higher sex drive, if their partner turns out to actually be asexual, could stop torturing themselves about why they're so unlovable and unwantable.

Anyways, I realise the question sounded reproachful, but that's no reason to generalise. In cases like that, the people involved tend to both feel guilty that they don't match up, as well as a bit resentful if they feel their partner doesn't understand them. It's certainly not about one side always feeling guilty and getting accused and the other never, it can happen both ways.

[Vampyremage]

Persuasion, as the word is commonly used, isn't always directly by the partner. I was persuaded to have sex not by my partners talking me into it, but by the fact (and it was a fact) that if I didn't, I would lose that person whom I loved. That knowledge persuaded me. However, actually having the sex was my choice. I could have chosen to not have sex and lose that person.

If you haven't been in that position, it's hard to explain how you feel. You know that the activity is not your choice, but the penalty for not participating in the activity is not your choice either. So you do what seems least difficult.

I really liked this description and it kind of sparked something in me. When I consider my past relationships with sexuals, I think this is exactly how it was. None of them actively persuaded me to have sex with them, but there was an implicit underlying fact that if I did not have sex with them then they would leave me, sooner or later.

[BlackRose]

it just feels that there is a double-standard going on here. we are expected to feel guilty for not providing sex yet a sexual is not expected to feel guilty for putting consistant pressure on an asexual for sex....do you see there seems to be a double-standard?

anyway i've said my piece and will be leaving it at that now. i've made my point. <_<

I have to tell you, from hanging out in sexual forums, that between sexuals if an opposite sex couple has the male partner wanting more sex than the female one, the huge amount of insults you get against the guy, and how no means no, and no wonder she won't have sex with him since he's obviously a jerk and a rapist.

Just telling you it's not all one way. Depending on where you go, and a huge bias towards females (if she's not attracted to him anymore, it's his fault, if he's not attracted to her anymore, it's his fault because she let herself go because he wasn't making her feel special).

It's not always that way of course, and you do have people taking the opposite point of view, but people with a higher sexual drive are very often devilised, made to be rapists even if they'd never force anything and are just frustrated and desperate to find a way to help. And it doesn't help that asexuality isn't that well-known, because the people with a higher sex drive, if their partner turns out to actually be asexual, could stop torturing themselves about why they're so unlovable and unwantable.

Anyways, I realise the question sounded reproachful, but that's no reason to generalise. In cases like that, the people involved tend to both feel guilty that they don't match up, as well as a bit resentful if they feel their partner doesn't understand them. It's certainly not about one side always feeling guilty and getting accused and the other never, it can happen both ways.

:( I'm sad to hear that people would do that! What sexual forums have idiots insulting sexuals or calling them rapists for dating an asexual or dealing with a sexdrive mismatch? I hope it's just a few fools and not a general attitude.

[Olivier]

it just feels that there is a double-standard going on here. we are expected to feel guilty for not providing sex yet a sexual is not expected to feel guilty for putting consistant pressure on an asexual for sex....do you see there seems to be a double-standard?

anyway i've said my piece and will be leaving it at that now. i've made my point. <_<

I have to tell you, from hanging out in sexual forums, that between sexuals if an opposite sex couple has the male partner wanting more sex than the female one, the huge amount of insults you get against the guy, and how no means no, and no wonder she won't have sex with him since he's obviously a jerk and a rapist.

Just telling you it's not all one way. Depending on where you go, and a huge bias towards females (if she's not attracted to him anymore, it's his fault, if he's not attracted to her anymore, it's his fault because she let herself go because he wasn't making her feel special).

It's not always that way of course, and you do have people taking the opposite point of view, but people with a higher sexual drive are very often devilised, made to be rapists even if they'd never force anything and are just frustrated and desperate to find a way to help. And it doesn't help that asexuality isn't that well-known, because the people with a higher sex drive, if their partner turns out to actually be asexual, could stop torturing themselves about why they're so unlovable and unwantable.

Anyways, I realise the question sounded reproachful, but that's no reason to generalise. In cases like that, the people involved tend to both feel guilty that they don't match up, as well as a bit resentful if they feel their partner doesn't understand them. It's certainly not about one side always feeling guilty and getting accused and the other never, it can happen both ways.

:( I'm sad to hear that people would do that! What sexual forums have idiots insulting sexuals or calling them rapists for dating an asexual or dealing with a sexdrive mismatch? I hope it's just a few fools and not a general attitude.

Many sexual forums actually go the other way, and are so pro-sex that low desire partners are the ones demonised, or pathologised. Often that gets uncomfortably close to rape apologism, and I think the sort of stuff Avistew wrote about is a bit a reaction against that sort of thing, and is common amongst more thoughtful sexual discussion as a way of differentiating one's views from rape apologism, even if it sometimes goes a bit far in the opposite direction.

[Kurai-Tenshi_Niks]

For me personally, yes I did. Hence why I avoid relationships, and if I was in one, I would treat my partner like shit because I felt so bad that I didn't know how to handle it. I felt they deserved better and I hoped that they would realize it.

[Avistew]

Many sexual forums actually go the other way, and are so pro-sex that low desire partners are the ones demonised, or pathologised. Often that gets uncomfortably close to rape apologism, and I think the sort of stuff Avistew wrote about is a bit a reaction against that sort of thing, and is common amongst more thoughtful sexual discussion as a way of differentiating one's views from rape apologism, even if it sometimes goes a bit far in the opposite direction.

Yes, sadly many forms have an "accepted view" on that kind of issue, which goes one way or the other. For instance forums I've been to that are generally female tend to go on the extreme "if he ever has sex with you and you didn't initiate it's rape" (not the commonly held view but a vocal one) but, on the other hand, be for instance of the opinion that you can blatantly lie about taking birth control if you want a kid and your partner doesn't, because after all it's always a risk of having sex and if he does have sex with you he implies he's fine with having a kid, and that if he really doesn't want kids right now he should get a vasectomy/always wear condoms and that it's his fault for trusting you anyways. I strongly disagree with that, by try pointing it out and you'll get lots of flaming posts about how you're selfish and horrible and they just want a baby and there is nothing they can do (er, not lie? Find a partner who also wants kids?).

On the other hand, some other forums will have the general opinion that sex is something everybody wants and needs and that denying it is like denying someone food. So yeah, it can really vary, but it's not always the same side who's demonised was my point.

[Sally]

that if he really doesn't want kids right now he should get a vasectomy/always wear condoms

What's wrong with that? The female should use whatever prevention she can use also. Each partner has the responsibility to prevent children if they don't want them. Neither partner has the right to demand that only the other one must do it.

[Avistew]

that if he really doesn't want kids right now he should get a vasectomy/always wear condoms

What's wrong with that? The female should use whatever prevention she can use also. Each partner has the responsibility to prevent children if they don't want them. Neither partner has the right to demand that only the other one must do it.

Well, getting a vasectomy when you don't want kids right now but think you might want them later doesn't work. And the problem with them saying "if he's not wearing condoms, then it's his fault" is that they get the guys to stop condoms by saying they're on the pill. I personally think it's sad to have to doubt your partner. I totally understand going the extra mile if having a kid is your worst fear or something (for instance many friends of mine started the pill as soon as they had periods in case they got raped, which thankfully happened to none of them, and they didn't start having sex for years) but the whole concept of trying to trick someone actively and then blaming them just grates on my nerves. When a boyfriend does want to keep using condoms, you hear advice about how to make him stop wearing them, or how you should remove them yourself or something, or how to collect semen from used condoms to impregnate yourself. In my opinion there isn't much the guy could have done, so the problem is that they're really talking in bad faith there. Their arguments might make sense if the guy insists that she should take the pill and he shouldn't do anything, and she says "no, I won't take it, so you deal with it". Then yeah, if he doesn't use protection, he's been warned, I totally agree with that.

[shaiith]

that if he really doesn't want kids right now he should get a vasectomy/always wear condoms

What's wrong with that? The female should use whatever prevention she can use also. Each partner has the responsibility to prevent children if they don't want them. Neither partner has the right to demand that only the other one must do it.

Well, getting a vasectomy when you don't want kids right now but think you might want them later doesn't work. And the problem with them saying "if he's not wearing condoms, then it's his fault" is that they get the guys to stop condoms by saying they're on the pill. I personally think it's sad to have to doubt your partner. I totally understand going the extra mile if having a kid is your worst fear or something (for instance many friends of mine started the pill as soon as they had periods in case they got raped, which thankfully happened to none of them, and they didn't start having sex for years) but the whole concept of trying to trick someone actively and then blaming them just grates on my nerves. When a boyfriend does want to keep using condoms, you hear advice about how to make him stop wearing them, or how you should remove them yourself or something, or how to collect semen from used condoms to impregnate yourself. In my opinion there isn't much the guy could have done, so the problem is that they're really talking in bad faith there. Their arguments might make sense if the guy insists that she should take the pill and he shouldn't do anything, and she says "no, I won't take it, so you deal with it". Then yeah, if he doesn't use protection, he's been warned, I totally agree with that.

Re: the bolded part... wow, that is seriously fucked up.

[Avistew]

Re: the bolded part... wow, that is seriously fucked up.

I know... I'm worried that dealing with people like that made me a bit... I don't know, I mean, I realise it's a small minority of people but part of me is less trusting because I know they exist. I think it would have made me paranoid if I was a guy.