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renaissance redneck
Wow! Wow!!! Woohoo!

I think that when someone is insecure about something and is allowed to take the initiative, it opens an otherwise locked door. The pressure is off. One can go forward at one's own pace, or retreat as one chooses. "The line" can be pushed forward very cautiously. I do wonder whether asexual couples have explored this to any degree.osito

We started normally, every day or every other day. Kids came along 9 months after marriage for our first. She was a wildcat, but we slowed down after marriage. Work, responsibilites interfered. It became hard to find that "intimate moment". Menopause hit like a stone - hysterectomy & oophorectomy followed. Medical management has failed and her desire and tissue have dried up and withered away.

Welcome to asexuality.

Not all of you are born this way, sometimes something happens that makes you prefer to be this way. For those of us that are still sexual - It's not something WE can turn off. In the past I had tried to "let her work for it", allowing her to make the first move. It never came. Should I have waited more than 4 months? In retrospect - perhaps. Who knows?

Doesn't stop me from feeling like a heel for wanting something from my wife she doesn't want to give - and now I gather, no longer enjoys.

Why put all this here?

After long hours reading (I read very fast so belive me) most of your posts, I have concluded that asexuals (as you have labeled yourselves) here have an overwhelming desire to be understood.

I have endeavored to do so. I hope that some of you are able to find a greater understanding of yourselves as partners in relationships by understanding your sexual counterparts through what I have put here.

If you are married I hope you are able to build a successful relationship with your partner - it may take some sacrifice from each of you. When it does - take pleasure in pleasing them and excel at it. That goes for sexuals and asexuals alike.

If you are not married, consider well the responsibility before you enter in to it.

These thoughts are helping me - I hope they help you too.

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Thinking

Hey, why don't the sexual/asexual couple get with another s/a couple?

The two sexuals get their "needs" :wink: met with each other and then go home with their asexual partners.

That way the sexuals are not "burning" and the asexuals don't have an "obligation" :cry: over their heads anymore.

Okay, I know it's not that simple, but hey, just a thought. :roll:

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zita

Hello!

I am in desperate need of some advice. I am married to an asexual, but he won't recognize it, I have hurted him trying to make him recognize it and to get help. In the meantime I need to do something about my needs. What do you do about it? Helping myself is not enough and I feel empty and lonely.

Any advice will help. Thank you!!

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zita

How do you go about meeting someone when you are married, and have safe sex (in all senses) without getting involved. I wish I could find someone.

Hey, why don't the sexual/asexual couple get with another s/a couple?

The two sexuals get their "needs" :wink: met with each other and then go home with their asexual partners.

That way the sexuals are not "burning" and the asexuals don't have an "obligation" :cry: over their heads anymore.

Okay, I know it's not that simple, but hey, just a thought. :roll:

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zita

Mara,

I am in the same situation, married 10 years and have one kid. I am not sure how to go about the whole situation. It is hurting. Sometimes I want to go out to look for sex and have my needs cover while keeping the marriage but I am unable to do it. What is your status now. I see the posting is over 2 yrs old.

Hi,

Actually never heard about asexuals until recently and just now found this forum. It was quite good to read the many posts, wished I would have found it years ago.

Met my husband 16 years ago, and during the first 1 1/2 years he was the most tender, loving, and sexual person you would find. Though, sometimes I felt he was "acting" a bit just like you find with some homosexuals who will talk about their many female friends. Then, my husband started losing interest in our sex life, little by little, always pretending that he was too tired that he had some stomach cramps etc. Of course, I would feel sorry for him, let him rest, etc.

Except for those times when I really despaired because I simply couldn't understand that a man has barely any interest in sex and assumed he had lost interest in me, felt I was unattractive, or that he had someone else, was gay, or whatever. When I would try to talk to him about my needs and what we might do to find a solution which was fine for both of us - and as I mentioned, I had absolutely NO clue it could be normal for a man to want sex almost never, he would either say he just didn't feel or or, at a later stage when we had sex not more often than 2 - 3 times in a year, start shouting at me that I was a sex maniac, that I was abnormal and that I should accept him as he was. Wonder what he thought why I stayed with him in spite of really suffering in that area.

For almost 8 years now, there has not been any sex at all. The first few years of these we led rather stressful lives with tons of overtime, buying a house, bad jobs (mobbing situations), and I was glad that my need for sex was lower so that I was better able to cope with the situation. As things got calmer again, about 4 years ago, I tried a discussion with my husband (which I had learnt to avoid as he would usually start shouting at me to avoid the subject). Tried to explain him that I really loved him - and still do - and wanted to respect him as he is but also asked him to see my part in it. As I in fact felt his neglecting me and my needs was similar to being raped, just that it was the opposite. I felt that he just didn't care for what my needs were and I wondered what was the matter with him or, if he had no desire for sex, why did he absolutely refuse to seek help?

At that point, for the first time ever, my husband made it clear that he had no need for sex at all and that I should not expect that to change. He felt it would be great if we would remain married and I just find someone else for sex.

To me that came as a shock. I experience sex as something physical but equally as a very close emotional link to a person. For me not having sex with my husband let our closeness suffer already, and I thought that having sex with someone else would make that worse.

This was followed by immense suffering on my part, slow recovery. During this time my husband distanced himself from me also regarding hugging etc. so I really felt unwanted, unloved, in despair. I was close to getting a divorce (something I wouldn't do lightly as I wouldn't easily go for extramarital sex as I am a Christian).

Just a little over a year ago, did we find a way out of the horrible times and are back to what I consider a good "friendship". But not more than that. My husband eventually understood that I'm suffering on and off and he must not consider this as trying to put pressure on him and therefore he must not shout at me. And I've eventually understood my husband is unlikely to have sex again.

I am now in the situation that I do love him and don't want to hurt him, but equally I do long for a partner with whom I can have a great, close relationship which includes sex. I kind of feel "in reallity divorced" from my husband, and married on paper only.

Mara

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zita

Mara,

I am in the same situation, married 10 years and have one kid. I am not sure how to go about the whole situation. It is hurting. Sometimes I want to go out to look for sex and have my needs cover while keeping the marriage but I am unable to do it. What is your status now. I see the posting is over 2 yrs old.

Hi,

Actually never heard about asexuals until recently and just now found this forum. It was quite good to read the many posts, wished I would have found it years ago.

Met my husband 16 years ago, and during the first 1 1/2 years he was the most tender, loving, and sexual person you would find. Though, sometimes I felt he was "acting" a bit just like you find with some homosexuals who will talk about their many female friends. Then, my husband started losing interest in our sex life, little by little, always pretending that he was too tired that he had some stomach cramps etc. Of course, I would feel sorry for him, let him rest, etc.

Except for those times when I really despaired because I simply couldn't understand that a man has barely any interest in sex and assumed he had lost interest in me, felt I was unattractive, or that he had someone else, was gay, or whatever. When I would try to talk to him about my needs and what we might do to find a solution which was fine for both of us - and as I mentioned, I had absolutely NO clue it could be normal for a man to want sex almost never, he would either say he just didn't feel or or, at a later stage when we had sex not more often than 2 - 3 times in a year, start shouting at me that I was a sex maniac, that I was abnormal and that I should accept him as he was. Wonder what he thought why I stayed with him in spite of really suffering in that area.

For almost 8 years now, there has not been any sex at all. The first few years of these we led rather stressful lives with tons of overtime, buying a house, bad jobs (mobbing situations), and I was glad that my need for sex was lower so that I was better able to cope with the situation. As things got calmer again, about 4 years ago, I tried a discussion with my husband (which I had learnt to avoid as he would usually start shouting at me to avoid the subject). Tried to explain him that I really loved him - and still do - and wanted to respect him as he is but also asked him to see my part in it. As I in fact felt his neglecting me and my needs was similar to being raped, just that it was the opposite. I felt that he just didn't care for what my needs were and I wondered what was the matter with him or, if he had no desire for sex, why did he absolutely refuse to seek help?

At that point, for the first time ever, my husband made it clear that he had no need for sex at all and that I should not expect that to change. He felt it would be great if we would remain married and I just find someone else for sex.

To me that came as a shock. I experience sex as something physical but equally as a very close emotional link to a person. For me not having sex with my husband let our closeness suffer already, and I thought that having sex with someone else would make that worse.

This was followed by immense suffering on my part, slow recovery. During this time my husband distanced himself from me also regarding hugging etc. so I really felt unwanted, unloved, in despair. I was close to getting a divorce (something I wouldn't do lightly as I wouldn't easily go for extramarital sex as I am a Christian).

Just a little over a year ago, did we find a way out of the horrible times and are back to what I consider a good "friendship". But not more than that. My husband eventually understood that I'm suffering on and off and he must not consider this as trying to put pressure on him and therefore he must not shout at me. And I've eventually understood my husband is unlikely to have sex again.

I am now in the situation that I do love him and don't want to hurt him, but equally I do long for a partner with whom I can have a great, close relationship which includes sex. I kind of feel "in reallity divorced" from my husband, and married on paper only.

Mara

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Ace187

I'm my relationship with my best friend who is a girl and we definatly have some sort of a relationship that's not like normal ones, were alot closer but still friends. I am the sexual in the relationship. I worded the fears I had with the relationship completely wrong in this one thread and I'm trying to correct it now. I am honestly the happiest and the most worried person when I'm around her. I love the fact that were so close emotionally, even though she's trying not to be so close because she wants to focuse on school. Were still really close more then normal friends. She told me she was an asexual. She also told me not to fall in love with her and that she doesn't deserve to be loved by anyone. Still I stood by her, but like I said im the happiest AND the most scared when I'm near her. First reason is because she still calls me just a friend, this makes me feel that we aren't close enough. Which in turn fuels my fear that she'll find someone better and I'll be left along again. Yet I'd be happy if she did find someone that makes her feel loved and safe. The second fear is that I'll cross the line because she doesn't even know her lines yet. I'm afraid I'll go to far and she'll hate me because she'll think I just want her body.

The next obstical is that I see the physical part of a relationship as one of many ways to connect with your counter part, I mean the body is a very personal area. Letting someone even see your body is personal, let alone touch it. I know there are some out there that don't think its personal at all and don't care who they sleep with or looks at them. Which I don't understand. Anyway like I said its only one way of many. It's not the most important way but it is a very personal way in my opinion. The other things that would be more personal then that is letting the one you love see your flaws. Telling them your secerets and dreams. So it's a restriction that I have to deal with, That I gladly deal with so I can keep her in my life. But I'm still afraid of crossing that line.

Finally the fear of me stopping her from finding someone better, that's the worst one of them all. Sometimes I can see she was a little uncomfortable and that makes me think of how it might not be an issue with other people. Also I try to read body language and it scares me sometimes because if I read it correctly she shows positive body language to other people and that could mean she's interested in them. What ever way that could be, like I said I don't know if im the perfect guy for her and she hasn't said it so it's an issue. Still I'll keep close to her and comfort her when she needs it. Hopefully one day things will work out, even if it's not with me I'd want her to be happy.

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suzan

I am a sexual women(age 52) who is in love with an asexual man(age 61). We dated for 1 1/2 years. It was very confusing for me. We broke up December 27th. We have maintained a strained friendship. I do not think that he realizes that asexuals exist. I found this page by googling sexual issues. Looking over the year and a half I realize that he was very avoid of any sexual closeness. He was not comfortable ever. He would come to bed long after I had gone. He would sleep on top of the covers when I was under them. While on vacation given the oppertunity to sleep in another bed he did. I was so confused, he was so loving towards me in so many ways. He told me he had e.d., he said it was blood pressure meds. he said he wanted to lose weight. The reasons and excuses were endless. It took breaking up and me wanted to understand what in he heck that was all about to find this web page and find so much understanding. I want to continue to have a relationship with him, even eventually having a loving relationship with him again. My issues now are how do I move forward? In letting him know that I beleive that he is asexual, when he does not know. He was honest with me but I could not see. I understand so much more now. Is it possible that he has pushed me away for ever? Would he be offended if I mentioned that he might be asexual? What if he is not? I could love him forever, but he needs to come back to me with love in his heart. I need to know he needs me. I am not at all offended by his orientation to sexuality but wish we could have just discussed it more. Again I do not think he knows about asexual. After a discussion we had about our break up he said that it was the "sex thing" that got to him the most. I told him that I would never put him in a position to ever feel uncomfortable again in reguards to sex. I think he appreciated it so. His son got married last week and he offered for me to stay in his hotel room the night of the wedding. I stayed. It brought back a lot of emotion for me but I did not express it to him. Early in the morning I schooched close to him for a few mminutes and then moved back to my side of the bed. It was nice to just be physically close to him. I hope he did not feel threatened. I told him I would not do that and I did not intend for him to feel anything other than me just being there. Yes I do think a relationship between a sexual person and a asexual person can exist. It will take a lot of understanding on both parts. The problem might be in being open and willing to be honest. I hope you all can advise me as best you can. Life goes on and we all have choices to make. Good Luck to all.

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Lucinda

Welcome suzan :)

Just because your guy doesn't roar like a tiger, that's not to say he doesn't think like a tiger. If he is overweight, he could certainly be on meds for high blood pressure. Have you ever seen him take them? Blood pressure meds have been linked to ED. These aren't necessarily excuses for not having sex, they could be very real reasons. He may not want you to put pressure on him to have sex if he feels he will not be able to perform. I bet he may not want to put pressure on himself either. He also may not want to lead you on in any way as expressed by sleeping in separate beds, for example. However, he could still be very much sexually attracted to you and not asexual at all.

Now, what if he lost weight and brought his blood pressure down. It may still hover in the high normal range and his doctor may decide to keep him on meds. Could you live with the fact that he may never be able to have full blown sex with you?? That is the first thing you must decide. Yes or No. Don't feel sorry for him. Decide if sex is the only way you will feel sexually desired and is a must have.

Think about it and let us know. :)

Lucinda

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genwiz314

Hello!

I've got a quick question that I didn't think waranted its own thread, so here goes.

I know romance novels aren't the best place to find info on sexual relationships, but I've been reading them and something's been bugging me. Whenever the main characters, who are in the relationship in question, get in the same room the only thing they can think about is each other's bodies and sex. I mean, the only time they seem to be able to have a coherent thought is when they are in separate rooms.

I was wondering, is that really how it is with a brand new relationship or is that a bit overexaggerated?

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Olivier

Romance novels are indeed not the best places for realistic depictions of sexual relationships :)

That said, there's a grain of truth as usual in amongst the muck: if a relationship has progressed to the point where both sides know it will become sexual, but it hasn't yet, then any opportunity is likely to be keenly anticipated.

But not to the the point where those involved are incapable of thinking of other things at least part of the time ;)

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sonofzeal
Hello!

I've got a quick question that I didn't think waranted its own thread, so here goes.

I know romance novels aren't the best place to find info on sexual relationships, but I've been reading them and something's been bugging me. Whenever the main characters, who are in the relationship in question, get in the same room the only thing they can think about is each other's bodies and sex. I mean, the only time they seem to be able to have a coherent thought is when they are in separate rooms.

I was wondering, is that really how it is with a brand new relationship or is that a bit overexaggerated?

Sexual thought (at least in my experience) is rarely so direct and coherent as all that. However, if you're in the same room as someone you find sexually attractive in a very strong way, almost everything they do will light up your hormone systems like a christmas tree. A hint of leg, a subtle smile, their tone of voice - all these sensual things that you'd miss or ignore otherwise suddenly start gripping your gonads like a set of clamps. That's only in the most extreme cases, and the threshhold for what jumps out and grabs you varies widely. But as attraction increases, the more often I'll find something small that triggers an overwhelming urge to grab and hold onto and kiss. These aren't feelings I have all the time with them, but the more attracted I am to the person, the more often they happen. Thus, in the exaggerated world of romance novels, rational thought in the presence of the beloved becomes nigh impossible.

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Olivier

*bump*

The forum was quiet, so I went back and read this thread from the beginning, which I'm not sure if I've done before. Wow. Go back! Everyone. Read! For all the people who want to get their heads around the sexual mindset, or A/S mixed relationships, GO BACK AND READ THIS THREAD, especially around 2005-2006. Really read it. Put yourself in the shoes of every poster, sexual AND asexual. I dare you not to cry!

Go on! Now. Get reading already!

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Dame du Lac

You're right Olivier, this is a very interesting thread. Of course, the reason I've not read it before is because it is so long. But there were a lot of very positive posts early on. Some were tragic though - shouting at your spouse because they mention a problem in the relationship that you don't want to deal with? That's not a result of being asexual - that's being mean. And threatening to leave someone if they seek sex/affection with someone else or pleasure themselves when you refuse to even talk about the situation? Probably grounds for divorce citing unreasonable behaviour.

All those people saying that their relationships were breaking down and now they realise what's going on with their partner and have a whole new perspective on the situation. They were great. I wonder what became of their relationships with this new knowledge.

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AVENCakes

I've read over the topic, and a lot of the problem seems to be compromise. This makes me happy for the asexuals who can compromise- but also mourn for those like myself. I don't know if this will help anyone, but I feel like explaining my experiences. I may have already, but whatever, repeating is fine. I've probably written about this a few dozen times in journals, etc, and it took that much to really work through it.

3 years ago, when I was unaware people could be sexual (I'm not missing an 'a'), I ended up in a sexual relationship with sexual guy. It was very confusing because I didn't want to do anything, felt uncomfortable when he talked about even just kissing. I tried to convince him to wait until my finger, which had gotten stitches, healed to kiss (stitches heal slow for me, my thumb got them OFF 3 months ago and isn't healed). This didn't work and I didn't like it at all but thought "this is what you do while dating", so I just let it happen. He'd do this a lot, keep asking for things, I'd try to find out if it was normal to not want to find out that it wasn't, and end up giving in even if I didn't want to because he kept asking as if it were some horrible thing to say no and because the world seemed to agree it was. We didn't actually have sex, mostly just touching, but I never liked how I felt about it. That was a really unhappy time, and if he hadn't moved away a month later I don't know what would've happened.

Now I know I'm repulsed asexual, and that the problem was I was doing things that are completely against who I am (even masturbating feels wrong to me). I'm open about this, especially in dating. I won't say yes to a date unless I'm pretty sure that the person understands that I'm asexual and will likely never do anything sexual at all. I really loathe how sexual contact makes me feel, and putting me through it would be just as much "rape" as forcing a sexual to be celibate can be. I don't feel like it's right to force a sexual to go without something they need, but to me it's as much a need to go without sex as it is for most people to have it.

Somebody said their SO/spouse got a bit verbally hostile when they asked for sex even jsut 2 or 3 times a year. this might be the problem. Even if you don't realize the problem, doing something so against your nature can make you feel horrible about yourself and cause you to lash out at the "source" of the feelings.

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daddyhammer

I stumbled onto this site after trying to research why my boyfriend of three months has been slowly turning off the sex. The key phrase for me was "I had some friends tell me that they think that I'm asexual, but I think that they're wrong." What he told me was that he doesn't experience sexual desire, but he experiences pleasure from his partner's pleasure. I met him with the stated intention of wanting to explore my gay sexuality after a long life as a straight. He said that he knew I had an active sex drive and that taking care of my sexual needs was a duty that he didn't mind doing and that his previous partners were eventually fine with simply demanding sex when they needed it.

The reality though is that me having sex with him is almost like a rape scene. If I simply ask, the answer is always "no." When I insist on sex and steadfastly ignore the excuses, complaints and acid humor he'll stay reluctant until I get erect then he responds with enthusiasm. Most of the time though I haven't had the heart to ignore him when he tells me with great sincerely that he really, truly, doesn't want to make love with me.

The pain and loneliness of rejection makes me want to die when it doesn't make me so pissed off I want to throw stuff, so I'm asking for sex less and less often. I can't see this continuing and I can't believe how terrible that feels: He's the most complex, interesting and lovely person that I've ever met, but it hurts to be with him. :(

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rolls100

I can personally understand the pain and frustation described sexuals having a relationship with an asexual. I have been married more than 30 years and realize now that my wife is asexual. I just found out about this website and the concept of asexuality, something I never knew existed. I suppose the good news is that I no longer need to blame myself for my wife's failures in lovemaking and lack of sexual drive. The bad news is the reality and finality of the situation that I must bear. How sad to know there is little I can do about it. We are currently getting counseling, but the therapist clearly believes that our lack of intimacy is mostly my fault. I suspect he doesn't know anything about asexuality. Needless to say, the counseling is going too well...

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Worm
The pain and loneliness of rejection makes me want to die when it doesn't make me so pissed off I want to throw stuff, so I'm asking for sex less and less often. I can't see this continuing and I can't believe how terrible that feels ...

I can't believe how terrible it feels either. So many negative emotions are consuming you up to and including wanting to die. Is that really what life is all about? Is there absolutely nothing or nobody else you could possibly focus your thoughts and energies on?

When you go to a grocery store, more than half of the people there will not want to have sex with you or even think about you and sex in the same thought. Are you going to get angry and start throwing heads of lettuce or jars of applesauce? If not with strangers, why do you let all this negativity surface when you are around someone you find intriguing? Why not appreciate the fact that you had the opportunity to meet him and be happy with that?

“Much of your pain is self-chosen. It is the bitter potion by which the physician within you heals your sick self. Therefore trust the physician, and drink his remedy in silence and tranquility: For this hand, though heavy and hard, is guided by the tender hand of the Unseen…” -- Kahlil Gibran (1883 - 1931)

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Worm
I suppose the good news is that I no longer need to blame myself for my wife's failures in lovemaking and lack of sexual drive. .... We are currently getting counseling, but the therapist clearly believes that our lack of intimacy is mostly my fault.

Knowledge of asexuality relieves you of the need to blame yourself, yet you still talk of your wife's failures as though blame must be pointed somewhere. A third party puts the blame back on you mostly.

Who invented this scorecard that many seem to keep?

What are the advantages of the scorecard?

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UltraViolet
I suppose the good news is that I no longer need to blame myself for my wife's failures in lovemaking and lack of sexual drive. .... We are currently getting counseling, but the therapist clearly believes that our lack of intimacy is mostly my fault.

Knowledge of asexuality relieves you of the need to blame yourself, yet you still talk of your wife's failures as though blame must be pointed somewhere. A third party puts the blame back on you mostly.

Who invented this scorecard that many seem to keep?

What are the advantages of the scorecard?

Good points. There should not be any blame at all. There should be understanding instead.

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daddyhammer
I can't believe how terrible it feels either. So many negative emotions are consuming you up to and including wanting to die. Is that really what life is all about? Is there absolutely nothing or nobody else you could possibly focus your thoughts and energies on?

When you go to a grocery store, more than half of the people there will not want to have sex with you or even think about you and sex in the same thought. Are you going to get angry and start throwing heads of lettuce or jars of applesauce? If not with strangers, why do you let all this negativity surface when you are around someone you find intriguing? Why not appreciate the fact that you had the opportunity to meet him and be happy with that?

“Much of your pain is self-chosen. It is the bitter potion by which the physician within you heals your sick self. Therefore trust the physician, and drink his remedy in silence and tranquility: For this hand, though heavy and hard, is guided by the tender hand of the Unseen…” -- Kahlil Gibran (1883 - 1931)

Until I met him, I was able to (mainly) sublimate my sexuality/intimacy needs by hyper-focusing on becoming a world class athlete in my particular sport. But when we became a couple it was like a switch got thrown in my head: Oops, no more desire to compete, because what I was really starving for shows up in my life. And he's damn near perfect, except for meeting the needs that drove me to to initiate contact with him in the first place.

The hell of it is, he understood all that going into this. We did more sharing, and discussing boundaries than I've ever done before in my life. I so did not want to mess this up. He really thought he'd be able to do what he did in previous relationships. But for some reason this time, he can't. And beyond physical passion, like other asexual people, he's blind to the interaction of sexuality, intimacy and love. Stone cold blind. There's an amazingly deep expression of love for one's partner that can be expressed sexually that he'll never experience with me, and my opportunity to feel towards him is shutting down rapidly.

"Is there absolutely nothing or nobody else you could possibly focus your thoughts and energies on?" Focusing on something else? I did that for years, but I ended up in this relationship because it didn't work for me anymore. Someone else? No. Infidelity is a gigantic issue for him. He was cheated on big time in a previous relationship. And given my personality, I don't want to be sexual outside our relationship either.

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daddyhammer
I suppose the good news is that I no longer need to blame myself for my wife's failures in lovemaking and lack of sexual drive. .... We are currently getting counseling, but the therapist clearly believes that our lack of intimacy is mostly my fault.

Knowledge of asexuality relieves you of the need to blame yourself, yet you still talk of your wife's failures as though blame must be pointed somewhere. A third party puts the blame back on you mostly.

Who invented this scorecard that many seem to keep?

What are the advantages of the scorecard?

For those of us that can see what the grand buffet of life has to offer, choosing out of love to starve is difficult at best, and is essentially a prolonged attempt at murdering a portion of our deepest selves. The sacrifice we make is not something you can understand, the way a sunset is unknowable to the blind or a symphony to the deaf. When we come to the realization that it is not us but rather the relationship that is dying, the feelings are the same as the imminent death of a terminally ill loved one. Relief, sadness, anger, grief and an attempt to understand why things happened.

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Sally
For those of us that can see what the grand buffet of life has to offer....The sacrifice we make is not something you can understand, the way a sunset is unknowable to the blind or a symphony to the deaf..

Boy, that sounds pretty arrogant. Asexuals don't generally enjoy the sexual act between two people. Don't extend that to asexuals being "blind" or "deaf". To you, not feeling sexual attraction might be a handicap; to us, it's just who we are. Don't define something you haven't experienced.

.

"Grand buffet" indeed. Sheesh.

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sonofzeal
For those of us that can see what the grand buffet of life has to offer....The sacrifice we make is not something you can understand, the way a sunset is unknowable to the blind or a symphony to the deaf..

Boy, that sounds pretty arrogant. Asexuals don't generally enjoy the sexual act between two people. Don't extend that to asexuals being "blind" or "deaf". To you, not feeling sexual attraction might be a handicap; to us, it's just who we are. Don't define something you haven't experienced.

.

"Grand buffet" indeed. Sheesh.

Indeed. Most asexuals still have all the nerve endings and plumbings. It's less like a blind man not understanding a sunset, and more like how I am not particularly fond of chocolate.

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Olivier
For those of us that can see what the grand buffet of life has to offer....The sacrifice we make is not something you can understand, the way a sunset is unknowable to the blind or a symphony to the deaf..

Boy, that sounds pretty arrogant. Asexuals don't generally enjoy the sexual act between two people. Don't extend that to asexuals being "blind" or "deaf". To you, not feeling sexual attraction might be a handicap; to us, it's just who we are. Don't define something you haven't experienced.

.

"Grand buffet" indeed. Sheesh.

If I may be controversial, I'll back up daddyhammer here. Deaf and blind communities are also full of people who wish to be seen as not disabled, just different. And their different experience of the world also comes through a lack of what a majority of people experience. Your insistence that these people's different experience of the world constitutes some sort of inferiority would seem just as arrogant to them.

It's not like not liking chocolate, that's a preference amongst those who understand what is like to like or not like a food - more like being homosexual vs heterosexual. If you don't like chocolate your food preference is a minority one, but surely there's other stuff you like. Unless you just don't notice the taste of anything, and would be just as happy taking a pill with your daily food needs.

In my (sexual/asexual) marriage, it's not like my wife and I like different music, and we need to find stuff we both like. It's more like I played her every type of music under the sun trying to figure out her preferences, before it dawned on both of us it wasn't that she didn't like the music, it was like not hearing it at all, or hearing it only as something similar to white noise, without the meanings that I attached to it that make it music.

And the biggest problem for us in finding a compromise is not trying to find the middle ground, it's remembering that one person doesn't see the ground. Accepting that is what's made it work for us.

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UltraViolet
(daddyhammer @ Aug 16 2008, 01:39 PM)

For those of us that can see what the grand buffet of life has to offer....The sacrifice we make is not something you can understand, the way a sunset is unknowable to the blind or a symphony to the deaf..

Enough with the disabled comments! Asexuals are NOT disabled! In fact, blind and deaf people who are not bothered by their conditions do not consider themselves disabled either. You can assume asexuals are "missing out" all you want but the bottom line is - we don't care!!! We do not feel we are missing anything and many of us actively do not even like the sex we are supposedly "missing". You could bring up that tired old question of "How can you know if you never tried it?" but there are many things in life that can be known without having to "try it" first. However, I have tried sex and I am always happier without it! As a former "socially obligated sexual" I can say that I have tried sex every which way possible and while my plumbing works I have never felt that so-called "deeper spiritual connection" with anyone by having sex - nor have I ever fallen in love because of it. Since sex does not cause or even particularly deepen love I have never seen the so-called "specialness" of it. I never felt special or more valued by my partners by having sex and I never felt that they were more special or valued to me. You either love someone or you don't and most of them loved me before we ever had sex and many still loved me even after the relationship ended. For me, sex was never much more than a physical obligation - my serving the seemingly endless needs of my various partners and though I did enjoy watching my partner's pleasure it still seemed like a service because the need was always theirs - not mine. In general I found sex to be boring, repetetive and often physically uncomfortable (and don't say I was doing it wrong or needed to be more adventurous). In fact, the more adventurous my partners wanted to get the more turned OFF I became (so to speak since I was never really turned ON by having to have sex to begin with though I was a great actress). Sex always seemed like a lot of wasted effort for minimal reward - much more irritation and frustration than actual satisfaction. If I didn't end up rubbed raw in my partners pursuit of a good orgasm then I ended up wasting time and energy on an unfulfilling one (or none) and though I have had orgasms (some even very good) I never felt the need for them. As far as I was concerned, anything beyond hugging and kissing ranged from boredom to disconnected torment. The moment the closeness and intimacy of hugging and kissing ended and the sex began I felt like I was not much more than a body to be twisted at will. However, my partners were not trying to abuse me but rather were trying to show me that supposed "grand buffet" of possibilities. It just seems that one persons binge inducing buffet is another persons cue to go on a diet (or, one persons bounty is another persons mess to clean up). I can think of no greater bondage then having to spend one's life providing a service that holds no interest for you or you risk losing your partners love. That is a sacrifice that is worse than the death of self - it is a lifetime of slavery.

[EDIT] In case there is any confusion in the future - when I said "one's life" in my quote "I can think of no greater bondage then having to spend one's life providing a service that holds no interest for you or you risk losing your partners love" I was referring to MY life specifically (tho I am sure there could be more than a few others who would agree with this statement).

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Olivier
Enough with the disabled comments! Asexuals are NOT disabled! In fact, blind and deaf people who are not bothered by their conditions do not consider themselves disabled either.

...

We do not feel we are missing anything and many of us actively do not even like what we are supposedly "missing".

Indeed many deaf and blind people do not consider themselves disabled. And neither daddyhammer or I suggested that they were - you're the one equating deafness and blindness with disability. The AVEN definition of asexuality is "not experiencing sexual attraction" - you can, and should, argue that this does not make asexuals in any way inferior, but to argue that asexuals are not "missing" sexual attraction contradicts AVEN's definition.

Deaf people do not experience symphonies in the same way as the hearing do, due to their relative lack of hearing.

Blind people to not experience sunsets in the same way as the seeing do, due to their relative lack of sight.

Asexuals do not experience sex in the same way as sexuals do, due to their relative lack of sexual attraction.

This seems almost absurdly obvious, and I'm not sure what there is to get so very defensive about.

You can assume asexuals are "missing out" all you want but the bottom line is - we don't care!!!

...

I have never felt that so-called "deeper spiritual connection" with anyone by having sex

...

sex does not cause or even particularly deepen love [for me, so] I have never seen the so-called "specialness" of it.

...

I never felt special or more valued by my partners by having sex

...

I never felt that they were more special or valued to me [as a result of having sex].

I have felt all those things, and they were/are wonderful to me. I don't expect everyone to like what I like, and I completely respect your feeling that you do not miss any those things. But as you say it's more a case that you don't care that you are missing them - that you are missing them isn't even something that you deny.

I can think of no greater bondage then having to spend one's life providing a service that holds no interest for you or you risk losing your partners love. That is a sacrifice that is worse than the death of self - it is a lifetime of slavery.

I spend my life constantly modifying my sexual behaviour in a way that provides no benefit for me other than a happy partner (a truly wonderful benefit). If I honestly expressed my sexuality without concern for my partner's asexuality, I would risk losing my partner's love (not because of my sexuality, but due to my lack of concern). I do not consider that a lifetime of slavery. I merely consider it proof that my relationship is bigger than myself alone - and that to succeed it requires both of us to consider the needs of us both. You may look down on this as bondage, but I feel incredibly privileged to feel the bonding I feel with my partner, and the fact that some (certainly not all) of that bonding is sourced in a knowledge of the fact that due to our different desires we make sacrifices for each other makes it no less real, sincere, or powerful. To me, it is the utter opposite of a death of self - it's an affirmation that it's possible to be an integral and essential part of something bigger, more complex, and more beautiful than you could achieve on your own.

The sacrifices that sexuals make for asexuals are really so similar to those made by asexuals for sexuals, but it's so much easier to just see the side that one personally experiences. Yet not seeing the other side is what kills relationships.

I fully respect the way you experience the world as valid and equally worthy to my own experience. Please offer me, and other sexuals, the same respect. To cast asexuals in relationships with sexuals as slaves to their partners belittles the symmetrical sacrifices that sexuals make to keep such relationships alive and flourishing.

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UltraViolet
[ultraViolet]

Enough with the disabled comments! Asexuals are NOT disabled! In fact, blind and deaf people who are not bothered by their conditions do not consider themselves disabled either.

...

We do not feel we are missing anything and many of us actively do not even like what we are supposedly "missing".

[Olivier]

Indeed many deaf and blind people do not consider themselves disabled. And neither daddyhammer or I suggested that they were - you\'re the one equating deafness and blindness with disability.

I never said that YOU said anything about a disability but daddyhammer said --- "The sacrifice we make is not something you can understand, the way a sunset is unknowable to the blind or a symphony to the deaf.." It reads like he meant it as a disability but if he meant it another way he should have worded it better. Perhaps people should not use perceived disabilities as an analogy.

[Olivier]

The AVEN definition of asexuality is "not experiencing sexual attraction" - you can, and should, argue that this does not make asexuals in any way inferior, but to argue that asexuals are not "missing" sexual attraction contradicts AVEN's definition.

I know that asexuals are missing (aka do not experience) sexual attraction. However, my statement was --- "We do not feel we are "missing" anything and many of us actively do not even like what we are supposedly "missing". By this I meant not missing sex as the thing that we are "not missing" and also "actively do not even like" (tho a few asexuals do not mind having sex).

[Olivier]

Deaf people do not experience symphonies in the same way as the hearing do, due to their relative lack of hearing.

Blind people to not experience sunsets in the same way as the seeing do, due to their relative lack of sight.

Asexuals do not experience sex in the same way as sexuals do, due to their relative lack of sexual attraction.

This seems almost absurdly obvious, and I'm not sure what there is to get so very defensive about.

I am defensive about being viewed as/considered to be disabled because many people do think of the blind and the deaf as being disabled.

[ultraViolet]

You can assume asexuals are "missing out" all you want but the bottom line is - we don't care!!!

...

I have never felt that so-called "deeper spiritual connection" with anyone by having sex

...

sex does not cause or even particularly deepen love [for me, so] I have never seen the so-called "specialness" of it.

...

I never felt special or more valued by my partners by having sex

...

I never felt that they were more special or valued to me [as a result of having sex].

[Olivier]

I have felt all those things, and they were/are wonderful to me. I don\'t expect everyone to like what I like, and I completely respect your feeling that you do not miss any those things. But as you say it\'s more a case that you don\'t care that you are missing them - that you are missing them isn't even something that you deny.

I am not missing anything. All I said was that I don't get a deeper spiritual connection FROM sex and I don't care about missing that because I dont miss the sex. I can still get a deeper spiritual connection with someone without any sex and I can also feel special and valued without any sex as well.

[ultraViolet]

I can think of no greater bondage than having to spend one's life providing a service that holds no interest for you or you risk losing your partners love. That is a sacrifice that is worse than the death of self - it is a lifetime of slavery.

[Olivier] I spend my life constantly modifying my sexual behaviour in a way that provides no benefit for me other than a happy partner (a truly wonderful benefit). If I honestly expressed my sexuality without concern for my partner's asexuality, I would risk losing my partner's love. I do not consider that a lifetime of slavery.

Yes, but you are not doing something that you do not like all the time. In the past I almost always "put up with" sex and to think of a lifetime of that is, to me, slavery. No matter how much I would want to please my partner the pleasure would always be just one way. I doubt that either you or your wife actually dislike sex and therein lies the difference.

[Olivier]

I fully respect the way you experience the world as valid and equally worthy to my own experience. Please offer me, and other sexuals, the same respect. To cast asexuals in relationships with sexuals as slaves to their partners belittles the symmetrical sacrifices that sexuals make to keep such relationships alive and flourishing.

I was only speaking of my own experiences with sexuals - please do not toss yourself and everyone else into the mix. My comments were based on my experiences alone. This should (hopefully) have been clear. Please notice that I said "I can think of no greater bondage then having to spend one's life providing a service that holds no interest for you or you risk losing your partners love." This is strictly MY view about my experiences with sexuals in my life. I, personally, have never known any sexuals willing to sacrifice anything in regards to sex. I never implied anything about you or any other sexuals on this board. In fact, this is the first place I have ever seen sexuals willing to sacrifice sexually for their asexual partners.

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Olivier
I never said that YOU said anything about a disability but daddyhammer said --- "The sacrifice we make is not something you can understand, the way a sunset is unknowable to the blind or a symphony to the deaf.." It reads like he meant it as a disability but if he meant it another way he should have worded it better. Perhaps people should not use perceived disabilities as an analogy.

I defended that analogy because I think it's very apt. My own "aha moment" that made me understand how my wife's asexuality affected her perceptions of my sexual behaviour was making this same analogy, and realising that I was, as I thought at the time, effectively "serenading the deaf".

I am defensive about being viewed as/considered to be disabled because many people do think of the blind and the deaf as being disabled.

I understand that, but it wasn't said, nor to me implied. To me it was a statement purely about the difficulty, or even impossibility, of explaining a visceral experience to someone who lacks the ability to share that experience.

I am not missing anything. All I said was that I don't get a deeper spiritual connection FROM sex and I don't care about missing that because I dont miss the sex. I can still get a deeper spiritual connection with someone without any sex and I can also feel special and valued without any sex as well.

So can I, and I do. But sex is somehow special despite that, and as daddyhammer said, it's really hard to explain how it's different, or special, to someone who sees and feels things differently.

I was only speaking of my own experiences with sexuals and their incessant sexual demmands - please do not toss yourself and everyone else into the mix. My comments were based on my experiences alone. This should have been clear. Notice I said that "I can think of no greater bondage then having to spend one's life providing a service that holds no interest for you or you risk losing your partners love." This is strictly MY view about my experiences with sexuals in my life. I, personally, have never known any sexuals willing to sacrifice anything in regards to sex. I never implied anything about you or any other sexuals on this board. In fact, this is the first place I have ever seen sexuals willing to sacrifice sexually for their asexual partners.

Fair enough. For what it's worth that wasn't clear to me. That "I can think of..." identifies you as the holder of the opinion, and the reference to "one's life" reads to me as a generalisation where "my life" would have been a reference to an opinion about yourself. This page on "one" states that "one can also function in an impersonal, objective manner, standing for the writer or for all people who are like the writer or for the average person or for all people who belong to a class". So everyone is right, and it's ambiguous. Bloody English pronouns ;)

Also, I've met plenty of sexuals who make sacrifices to accommodate their partner's sexuality. Granted, most of these sexuals' partners are also sexual, but whose needs differ in either quantity or form of their sexual desires, but sacrifice and compromise are a big part of the mainstream sexual experience amongst those I know.

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UltraViolet
[Olivier]

My own "Aha moment" that made me understand how my wife's asexuality affected her perceptions of my sexual behaviour was making this same analogy, and realising that I was, as I thought at the time, effectively "serenading the deaf".

I'm glad the analogy helped you with your "Aha" moment but deafness is usually something that deaf people want to fix (implying that it is not only a disability but also a defect). The same would be true for most blind people. Even people with minor vision problems want it fixed - it just makes life easier. However, most asexuals have NO desire to "fix" their asexuality.

[ultraViolet]

I am defensive about being viewed as/considered to be disabled because many people do think of the blind and the deaf as being disabled.

[Olivier]

I understand that, but it wasn't said, nor to me implied.

Lumping asexuals together with analogies of the deaf and blind DOES imply a similarity. How else could it have helped you with your "Aha" moment of asexuality being like "serenading the deaf" if it did not seem similar to you? Anyway, enough said - I just hope that analogies between disabilities and asexuality won't become an accepted norm in anyone's writing or thinking.

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