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Then I find AVEN and the first day after that was horrible. There were tears, a sense of hopelessness, a knowledge that this was over. On the second day, I woke up, both literally and figuratively. It was like a light bulb went off in my head- he didn't reject me, I rejected him. I failed all these years to accept him for who he is fully. I cannot imagine how awful it must have been for him to think he wasn't enough for me. He did everything in his power to show me he loved me and I didn't see it. I cried a lot over the years, got angry and yelled... and I can't imagine how horrible and hopeless it must have made him feel to not feel like he was enough for me. Once I understood, all the anger, rejection and resentment melted away.

"It was like a light bulb went off in my head- he didn't reject me, i rejected him."

Boom. As is said in the slam poetry community, "Dropping truth bombs".

Also I know this comment was almost a year ago, but this line in particular was one of the lines I most Identified with

in all of this thread. I am glad that you were able to find solace with it.

Also I've seen a lot of other sexuals in multiple pages say things like "Its not fair" "How is this fair?"

"How do I go on!" "This is so awful." and it makes me really sad as a fellow sexual.

Because y'all need to realize, that literally almost every single western culture, as well as many others, are specifically geared towards us.

Sex is everywhere, sex sells, and sex is prolific in all forms of our media. World Media has literally been saturated with it for almost 50 years.

So that means, at least to me, that we've been blasting aces with things they didn't/couldn't understand, or really relate to.

To me the best metaphor/scenario to describe this is the following:

You've suddenly been dropped in another country, with a totally different culture that you fundamentally don't understand, and people all around you

are doing things that don't make any sense to you. Even the alphabet/characters for words aren't in any way related.

Except here is the caveat, there is no rosetta stone, there is no google translate, there are no textbooks or help to teach you. The only way you can

survive is by trying to adapt/submit to this culture which is so unlike your own, and on a fundamental level, really upsets you, and at the very least

you don't understand.

This, to me, is essentially what I think from my frame of reference it would be like to be an ace in a sexual world, or, if the privilege tables were turned,

to be a sexual in an ace world.

It's not like "Oh its not fair" "why can't they just do it/like it" because its not like comparing apples and oranges, its like comparing oranges and giraffes on crystal meth. There isn't anything inherently wrong with either, (I mean hey, its a hard world out there for our long neck friends) they just can't mesh perfectly. They can find middle ground certainly, and there can be peace, but you will

fundamentally never quite get each other, even if you learn the motivators behind the other's desires. You just can't feel it.

/rantover

Sorry.

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  • 3 weeks later...

For about 25 years I accepted this and that reason to explain her lack of sexual desire (the most obvious being that it was some lack in me, but others included a need for kids etc.) - a phase of denial. The next 3 years when it slowly dawned on me that these reasons were not the root reason, I had a long period of mourning for my sexual relationship with her (which, it should be clear from the above, is not the same as a relationship plus sex). I remained faithful... just.. but I was quite significantly depressed. I am now coming out and we are trying to keep/build something what we have.

I've been married 25 years and have blamed myself for her lack of desire in one way or another all that time. Finding this forum has helped me understand that it isn't a failing in me or in her. I think I'm in that mourning phase that you mention. I'm adapting to a newly perceived reality. The more I let it sink in the more I understand. It is like I want to give her the very best gift in the world to show her how much I love her. But it isn't a gift that she wants. If I loved cigars (I don't , but if I did) and I kept giving her cigars as a present, it wouldn't be very kind. She may get them for me, knowing they are important to me, and even learn to put up with the smoke for my sake, but I can't expect her to love them just because I do. I know she loves me and wants me to be happy. I'm fortunate because she does want to please me. But I know that it isn't something she desires for herself. I can't expect her to want from me what I want to give to her. I wish like crazy that she did, but I can't change that. I've certainly tried. I need to focus on giving her what she actually wants. That is the loving thing to do. I think if we both focus on loving each other, we have the best chance of making things work.

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roryjack, on 19 Mar 2014 - 5:44 PM, said:

I've been married 25 years and have blamed myself for her lack of desire in one way or another all that time. Finding this forum has helped me understand that it isn't a failing in me or in her. I think I'm in that mourning phase that you mention. I'm adapting to a newly perceived reality. The more I let it sink in the more I understand. It is like I want to give her the very best gift in the world to show her how much I love her. But it isn't a gift that she wants. If I loved cigars (I don't , but if I did) and I kept giving her cigars as a present, it wouldn't be very kind. She may get them for me, knowing they are important to me, and even learn to put up with the smoke for my sake, but I can't expect her to love them just because I do. I know she loves me and wants me to be happy. I'm fortunate because she does want to please me. But I know that it isn't something she desires for herself. I can't expect her to want from me what I want to give to her. I wish like crazy that she did, but I can't change that. I've certainly tried. I need to focus on giving her what she actually wants. That is the loving thing to do. I think if we both focus on loving each other, we have the best chance of making things work.

Wow, that was beautiful. Please accept some :cake::cake::cake: from a lifelong asexual!

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Wow, that was beautiful. Please accept some :cake::cake::cake: from a lifelong asexual!

Thanks Sally. It's good to be welcomed on my first post here. I've been reading for a while. It seems like a wonderful supportive community.

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roryjack, on 19 Mar 2014 - 5:44 PM, said:

I've been married 25 years and have blamed myself for her lack of desire in one way or another all that time. Finding this forum has helped me understand that it isn't a failing in me or in her. I think I'm in that mourning phase that you mention. I'm adapting to a newly perceived reality. The more I let it sink in the more I understand. It is like I want to give her the very best gift in the world to show her how much I love her. But it isn't a gift that she wants. If I loved cigars (I don't , but if I did) and I kept giving her cigars as a present, it wouldn't be very kind. She may get them for me, knowing they are important to me, and even learn to put up with the smoke for my sake, but I can't expect her to love them just because I do. I know she loves me and wants me to be happy. I'm fortunate because she does want to please me. But I know that it isn't something she desires for herself. I can't expect her to want from me what I want to give to her. I wish like crazy that she did, but I can't change that. I've certainly tried. I need to focus on giving her what she actually wants. That is the loving thing to do. I think if we both focus on loving each other, we have the best chance of making things work.

Wow, that was beautiful. Please accept some :cake::cake::cake: from a lifelong asexual!

Another welcome and thanks for that awesome post! I've been working on that aspect of relating for a couple years now...thanks for putting it so eloquently. :) :cake:

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Going for years without understanding is a most difficult thing for sexuals in a mixed relationship. It seems that that ARE stages that we sexuals go through. I think the initial "shock" stage comes first. Then there is, as you said, the "mourning" stage. Then the "acceptance" stage. Finally, there seems to be a stage where we finally are able to live happily with the love of our lives and have become free to love and be loved within the confines of a mixed relationship. All the stages have the potential to last quite some time.

These are just thoughts that are popping into my head right now. But, Roryjack, you seem to have the right stuff to make your marriage successful. Having made it this far says a lot.

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Going for years without understanding is a most difficult thing for sexuals in a mixed relationship. It seems that that ARE stages that we sexuals go through. I think the initial "shock" stage comes first. Then there is, as you said, the "mourning" stage. Then the "acceptance" stage. Finally, there seems to be a stage where we finally are able to live happily with the love of our lives and have become free to love and be loved within the confines of a mixed relationship. All the stages have the potential to last quite some time.

These are just thoughts that are popping into my head right now. But, Roryjack, you seem to have the right stuff to make your marriage successful. Having made it this far says a lot.

Thanks, I appreciate your comments. Sometimes I feel I can move into that acceptance phase, or even that happy phase, but other times I fall out of it. Maybe it is the phases of the moon or something, but I go through cycles when it all feels ok, and cycles when I just get so sad. It is hard not be selfish.

roryjack, on 19 Mar 2014 - 5:44 PM, said:

I've been married 25 years and have blamed myself for her lack of desire in one way or another all that time. Finding this forum has helped me understand that it isn't a failing in me or in her. I think I'm in that mourning phase that you mention. I'm adapting to a newly perceived reality. The more I let it sink in the more I understand. It is like I want to give her the very best gift in the world to show her how much I love her. But it isn't a gift that she wants. If I loved cigars (I don't , but if I did) and I kept giving her cigars as a present, it wouldn't be very kind. She may get them for me, knowing they are important to me, and even learn to put up with the smoke for my sake, but I can't expect her to love them just because I do. I know she loves me and wants me to be happy. I'm fortunate because she does want to please me. But I know that it isn't something she desires for herself. I can't expect her to want from me what I want to give to her. I wish like crazy that she did, but I can't change that. I've certainly tried. I need to focus on giving her what she actually wants. That is the loving thing to do. I think if we both focus on loving each other, we have the best chance of making things work.

Wow, that was beautiful. Please accept some :cake::cake::cake: from a lifelong asexual!

Another welcome and thanks for that awesome post! I've been working on that aspect of relating for a couple years now...thanks for putting it so eloquently. :) :cake:

I actually had a great aunt whose husband smoked cigars and their whole house smelled of the smoke. I was amazed that she could put up with it. But she just said that she wasn't always that easy to live with either.
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Feral_Sophisticate

I actually had a great aunt whose husband smoked cigars and their whole house smelled of the smoke. I was amazed that she could put up with it. But she just said that she wasn't always that easy to live with either.

Hey!

Don't hate on cigars... They're awesome. 8)

(granted, I **never** smoke one in the house, and I only indulge once every few months...)

I do agree, though... The "after smell" is pretty nasty...

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Going for years without understanding is a most difficult thing for sexuals in a mixed relationship. It seems that that ARE stages that we sexuals go through. I think the initial "shock" stage comes first. Then there is, as you said, the "mourning" stage. Then the "acceptance" stage. Finally, there seems to be a stage where we finally are able to live happily with the love of our lives and have become free to love and be loved within the confines of a mixed relationship. All the stages have the potential to last quite some time.

These are just thoughts that are popping into my head right now. But, Roryjack, you seem to have the right stuff to make your marriage successful. Having made it this far says a lot.

Thanks, I appreciate your comments. Sometimes I feel I can move into that acceptance phase, or even that happy phase, but other times I fall out of it. Maybe it is the phases of the moon or something, but I go through cycles when it all feels ok, and cycles when I just get so sad. It is hard not be selfish.

Yes, it is very cyclical for me, too. I've learned not to be too excited when I'm feeling good because I know I could "crash" at any time. I believe I'm in the acceptance stage. This doesn't mean I've totally accepted the reality of our relationship but that I'm in the process of it. I still experience the previous stages but with less frequency and intensity.

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  • 2 weeks later...
WhatsHappening122

I am new here. Im a Sexual partner to an Asexual, well, to be more clear, im a Sex Addict partner to an Asexual. I dont know what to do. We love each other very much but she and i think so differently about sex that its hard to get anywhere. She doesnt want sex but she wants personal emotional intimacy, and I cant reach that level of closeness without a physical relationship as well. She is willing to have sex with me from time to time but the fact that i dont spark desire in her or any want or need for me the same way i have is causing me to slowly and painfully implode. Im not sure what to do, i dont want to break up, i really dont, but this is getting out of hand. does anyone have any advice or wise words or anything that might help me in this problem im facing? thank you

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Sexuals in a mixed relationship often feel like we are sex addicts...even though we're usually not. I'm not denying your addiction. My understanding is that over the past few years sex addiction has become the fastest growing of all addictions. Much of that is due to on-line pornography and our "sexed up" culture.

If you are a sex addict, I would recommend you take care of that first. Otherwise your relationship with an ace is doomed...and that would not be fair to her.

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Martin de V

Percivel's right; if there's an addiction, real or perceived, you should always attend to that first. I can tell you, though, that if you're like a lot of us, you're probably not a sex addict, you're just in a ... very awkward position that makes even normal desires feel like an addiction. I'm right there with you. I know how you feel.

So...hie thee away to a counselor for a session or two to determine if you are, in fact, a sex addict. As an alcoholic, I've learned that dealing with the addiction is always the first step in dealing with relationship problems that might be related to said addiction.

Once you deal with that, work this one through your brain: You're probably not going to be able to change her. My wife is a gray ace; I've come to accept that (though she's questioning that, wondering if some of her medical issues have just caused her to "dry up," so to speak, but we'll deal with that later). The fact is that, no matter what I do, I'm not likely to change that, any more than she can change some of my kinks: We're both hard-wired a little differently. So are you and your girlfriend.

Once you get that through your noggin (or at least introduced to your noggin; getting it through is a lot easier said than done), then it's time to talk to her. A lot. Make it a point. Communication is absolutely key. Let her know your concerns, listen to hers...and don't dismiss hers. or her offers of compromise.

Compromise, by the way, is not a dirty word. You've already indicated that she's willing to have sex with you sometimes, for your sake. Trust me when I tell you this: That's fuckin' huge (no pun intended). That's why Jo's willing to have sex with me: For my sake. She's never looked at me and said, "Marty, I want to jump your bones RIGHT NOW," and she probably never will, but she is willing to have sex with me because she knows it's a big deal to me. Not all of us are so lucky; you've only to read through some of the posts on this very forum to realize that.

So you're ahead of the game already. She doesn't have the same desire for you, physically, that you have for her, but she's willing to give you that in exchange for the emotional intimacy that she wants/needs. You can give her that in exchange for the physical intimacy that you want/need. If you can accept that she doesn't burn for you the same way, but that she does care for you a great deal (from the sounds of things), then dude...you've both won. You're probably not gonna get all the sex you want, but you're not going to go without, either.

So you want advice/wisdom? Talk to her. Find out how often she'd be willing to have sex, let her know how often you were wanting to have sex, and see if you can't both meet in the middle somewhere. If she wants once a month and you want once a week, see if she'd be willing to do it every other weekend. In the meantime, it sounds like she likes to cuddle and get to know you, so be willing to sometimes just do that and don't worry quite so much about getting your dick wet.

But hang in there. You're in a better position than, perhaps, you know.

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Feral_Sophisticate

Yeah, this ^^^

Nailed it. :)

:cake: :cake: :cake: :cake:

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  • 4 weeks later...

I am here because I have been married 26 years to a man who says he likes sex but he really doesn't seem to. No sex on our wedding night. A bit more sex when we were first together but still he was like 2 times a month to my 3 times a week. I love him so much and his lack of desire felt so rejecting to me because every man I have even been with seemed to either not have that much desire to begin with or lost it after we got serious. Even my first husband who was 18 when we married eventually seemed to lose interest in sex some. The second serious reltionship I had was with an alcoholic drug abuser (he smoked pot); I thought his lack of interest was from the drugs. Then I met the current husband. He seemed interested when we were dating and yet when we went to vacations (times when my friends said their boyfriends would want to have lots of sex because they were on vacation) he would rather go and go and go look at stuff. When we married, it was still not very frequent. I later found out he had had a long relationship with a gay man (his only other long, live-together relationship before me) and that gay man told me they broke up because my husband wanted the wife and kids. I felt so betrayed because he lied by omission and even invited that old boyfriend along on a camping trip we were supposed to go on together when we had only been affianced for about 4 months.

He says he isn't gay (but bi) but has gaydar all the time. Back when we were both younger, if I wanted sex and initiated, he would sometimes get mad and tell me he wasn't my stud service. This just made my already guilty self (women are made to feel guilty about wanting or admitting to wanting sex) feel even worse. I pushed that side of myself into a basement. I have spent the last 20+ years being someone else to please him. Only when I realized an online friendship with another man was becoming emotionally intimate (and I told him immediately so as not to be deceptive) did he suddenly want to have sex a lot and while we were in a hotel for a weekend. As soon as I said I had broken up with the online guy, my husband went right back to not wanting sex much.

Yet he says he likes sex, enjoys doing it and loves me and wants me so I am not sure he is truly asexual. Or gay. He just doesn't seem to have it as a priority as much as I do. I am so confused.

After menopause, my own libido tanked and I have been missng and grieving that part of myself. I NEED sex for connection because i am one who gives and needs love kinesthetically (touchy-feely). He needs cuddling more than sex but does like sex infrequently. He says he wishes he could want it more to please me. I don't know what he is or what we are going to do but we have four kids; three are grown and still living with us and one is only 12. I know he loves me deeply and I love him deeply but this being false hurts me so much. And his lies by omission (and that he figured I would never find out) ruined my trust in him. He is a hypocrite because HE was the one early on (before we married) that made such an issue that "without trust in a relationship, there isn't a relationship."

How many of you would have the gall to invite a former lover on a camping trip with your current lover without full disclosure AND sleep between the two? This calls his integrity and honesty into question. Problem is, I didn't find out about the previous relationship until after we had three of our four kids. I am a child of divorce so I cannot damage my kids that way and I won't. So I am now in counseling and last night I cried and he held me and I told him some of my feelings. That I have been living a lie and now I question if I married the right person for me.

He was diagnosed with low T when he was 40 but despite having various testosterone replacements, his libido still isn't even close to what mine was.

I woke up this morning and remembered that incident with the camping trip and the old flame of his and felt so angry and hurt. Imagine being married for 26 years only to wake up and realize you married a lying, sneaky, hypocrite who doesn't want to have sex with you that much? My whole world is off kilter. I know he loves me deeply but i am so hurt and I NEED sex with HIM. He doesn't want me to get it from anyone else. How unfair is that? Not thatI want it from anyone else.

I don't know if he is asexual, grey, gay or what. He says he isn't gay, that he isn't asexual, that he does want me and he is able to have sex with me and when we do it is amazing, loving, close. :::::sigh:::::

Thank you for being here; I don't know anywhere else I can go to discuss this stuff. I am 54, he is 61. I don't want the last remaining years of my life spent a lie.

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Carecare, that is a very difficult position to be in.

You say you love him deeply, but it sounds like you are very hurt and feel you have been damaged by the decades of not really understanding what is going on in this relationship.

You are only 54; that's young. Considering that the difficulties in your marriage are not recent, what do you think would be the best thing for you to do to spend the rest of your life in a better situation? Have you stated to him how you feel, and how think things should change?

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Space Ace,

Yes, I have told him. He was very sweet; holding me while I cried buckets. He kept saying he was sorry for hurting me and that he never meant to. He said he does like making love with me. He said he doesn't really know about his sexuality other than that he is Bi but that he has never wanted anyone else since marrying me. He said his parents never talked about sex and his mom made him feel that talking about it or sex itself was disgusting. He is small (5' 3") and in the high school locker rooms and while he was dressing on the circus (he was a professional clown on various circuses as a young adult) the guys would point out how small his balls were and show him theirs. His first sexual encounter was at age 19 with a Norwegian girl and then he had some other women but each would dunp him. He said he was initially afraid he couldn't please me when we first met because I was so open about sex, wanting sex and wanting him. He said that's why he pushed me away; it was out of fear. The things about his insecurity from his life experiences are things he never told me. Wow.

He also said he loves me, really does want me sexually and wants to fix things.

It is true that he had low T and he thinks it was present from puberty because once on testosterone, his balls did get bigger and he now has hair on his chest that he never had before. So he thinks maybe it isn't that he is asexual but rather his hormones never kicked in enough as a teen.

It was such a relief to hear him tell me these things. They make his behavior more understandable. He said he loves me and really wants to work on our sex life. I asked him to be honest with me and tell me if he is just wanting to improve our sex life to please me of if he also wants sex with me more. He said it is both.

And 54 doesn't feel young; my dad is 83 and has NO sex life; none of the poeple in the group homes he lives with have any sex lives (he lives there and knows who comes to visit them and who doesn't; these are snall group homes). My older women friends (they are in their 70's) have no sex lives much despite being married. So I feel my mortality creeping up; I maybe have 20 good sex years left and my husband maybe even less. I have had so little sex in the past 20+ years with my husband and I don't want to keep my sexuality hidden from him anymore. He said he didn't want me to hide myself; that he always loved my sexuality and drive but that he was (and still is) always afraid of not being able to perform and keep up with me.

I am SO lucky he is so open and loving to me. I realized I had been having expectations when we were younger that I never voiced (being afraid to voice them because I have always been accused by my family and previous boyfriends of being "too much" or "wanting too much") and I resolved with him to voice them. He said I am not "too much" and that he loves my passionate self. That's part of me and he loves that part. He asked me not to hide that from him anymore.

Could a sexual partner be any luckier?

So he and I have resolved to work on things together. I will stop hiding my feelings and I will now ask instead of just having expectations. I will also not get so hurt if he says he is not wanting sex; this is because I know it isn't because he doesn't want me, it is just that he may not want sex at that time or he may be afraid of not being able to perform. He said he will work on his sexuality; figuring out who and what he is and how he feels and being honest with me about that. And he said he will work on remembering that I love making love with him but I also love HIM and don't want him to feel pressured.

Thanks, Space Ace.

I am still going to hang out on these boards though; my daughter is self-identifying as asexual and I want to support her as much as possible in that.



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In love with Dianne

I am very sexual and my wife is asexual (opposites attract).

I thought for a time, I was not being loving enough to get her 'in the mood', I tried more romance, I tried more gifts, I tried being especially kind and giving to help her feel more secure in our relationship, I tried and tried because I didn't understand asexuality. I thought for a while that it was just because I was a guy and guys want sex all the time while women are different that way. I thought she was being pure and stubborn against my desire on purpose.

Due to all the times sexual pleasure has been denied to me by my sexy wife, I have felt rejected, unwanted, dissatisfied, resistable (not pleasant), angry, sad, abandoned, frustrated, spiteful, and tempted to get sex elsewhere (have not done so). It is so hard for me to be with her at times when I feel sex would be so natural only to have her ignore the whole topic. It actually hurts to be put in touch with my own sexuality so much when I am not receiving the physical contact from her I desire.

Before we got married, she acted sexual to please me. After we got married, her sex drive has gotten almost non-existent, so at times I feel tricked into marriage. I also feel sometimes that she is being asexual to punish me for something I did wrong. Now, I realize she and I are on opposite sides of the bell curve when it comes to sex drive and I am trying to deal with it by obstaining (just as she deals with my sexuality by having sex once in a while).

I also thought sex was central to a relationship and I am learning there are other factors that make our relationship intimate. I am trying to change my mind in my need for sexual contact as validation/ acknowledgement. It is difficult when most TV and movies depict a guy having sex as his reward for being a winner. No sex, feels like a punishment for being a loser at times. Our culture pushes sex a lot as the norm so not having any feels like I don't get to play like the others do.

It is so hard to find a person that matches what we want in a partner on every level . I searched for 2o years before finally setttling down. My wife has most things I need and a strong sexual attraction just isn't one of them. I feel secure when other guys come after her though. I do not always know what to do when the desire for sex hits me and doesn't hit her. She and I talk about so many other things but sex isn't one of them (oddly?) She claims she enjoys it and then doesn't want any. So what am I supposed to do?

Had she been more honest with me (and herself) about it or I had been less confident in my ability to make her 'want sex', we might not have gotten married. Perhaps, it is how love is for us. We love each other despite our major differences.

A sexy, asexual woman supports the saying, "what you see isn't always what you get."

This is exactly what I am feeling. Tricked into a sexless relationship, unloved, and unworthy of the pleasures of a sexual relationship.

My girlfriend suggested creating a day that we would have sex. To me this seems so unromantic and would actually be a major turn off.

The last time we had sex it was this way, and i completely lost my interest. Instead of asking if I wanted to 'fool around' or some other seductive talk, she asked if i wanted to "have sex" with a bored look on her face.

It was all so clinical and unromantic.

My idea of sex is coming home to her and gradually working up to feeling in the mood. Completely unplanned. Spontaneous.

I want her to want it too.

If she doesn't want sex with me and is just wanting it to end, how am i supposed to enjoy that ??

If I were just doing it for my pleasure, sure that might work, but I want her to join me at it.

I want her to want me ( que song now :lol: )

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In love with Dianne, I know those feelings, too. I would not wish them on my enemy. It feels like a surrealistic curse.

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In love with Dianne

I know this might offend lots of people here, but this is honesty :

I never knew that people existed that didn't desire sex. I assumed that if a couple was not having sex, it was due to the fact that they had lost that 'spark' and were just with each other to have a helper to pay the bills, or for the sake of the kids.

Other than that, I had assumed that the only reason that a woman would not be having sex with her boyfriend/lover/husband , is that she was using it as a control tactic.

By denying sex to the guy, she would make him miserable, and could therefore control him better.

EDIT : I wanted to add that this is just me complaining out loud. I wasn't responding to any posts in this thread.

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Feral_Sophisticate

Other than that, I had assumed that the only reason that a woman would not be having sex with her boyfriend/lover/husband , is that she was using it as a control tactic.

By denying sex to the guy, she would make him miserable, and could therefore control him better.

Some people do employ this tactic in relationships, and I find that to be particularly heinous. I think that any manipulation of another - within the context of whatever relationships you're in - is generally inexcusable.

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sonofzeal

Other than that, I had assumed that the only reason that a woman would not be having sex with her boyfriend/lover/husband , is that she was using it as a control tactic.

By denying sex to the guy, she would make him miserable, and could therefore control him better.

Some people do employ this tactic in relationships, and I find that to be particularly heinous. I think that any manipulation of another - within the context of whatever relationships you're in - is generally inexcusable.

Indeed. It just also turns out that there are people, of both genders, who aren't particularly into sex and may be perfectly happy not having any for extended periods of time, perhaps indefinitely. Put two of these together and hey, no sex, but happy marriage. And then there are relationships I know of personally where it's the man who'd be the one to withhold. All variations and permutations exist somewhere, and while there are general tendencies in our society, it never pays to extrapolate those generalities to specific individuals in your life.

To quote OwlSaint's Model of Human Sexuality: "It's complicated. Everybody's different."

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Feral_Sophisticate

Other than that, I had assumed that the only reason that a woman would not be having sex with her boyfriend/lover/husband , is that she was using it as a control tactic.

By denying sex to the guy, she would make him miserable, and could therefore control him better.

Some people do employ this tactic in relationships, and I find that to be particularly heinous. I think that any manipulation of another - within the context of whatever relationships you're in - is generally inexcusable.

Indeed. It just also turns out that there are people, of both genders, who aren't particularly into sex and may be perfectly happy not having any for extended periods of time, perhaps indefinitely. Put two of these together and hey, no sex, but happy marriage. And then there are relationships I know of personally where it's the man who'd be the one to withhold. All variations and permutations exist somewhere, and while there are general tendencies in our society, it never pays to extrapolate those generalities to specific individuals in your life.

To quote OwlSaint's Model of Human Sexuality: "It's complicated. Everybody's different."

I believe that's why I said "some" people manipulate in relationships. Not all do.

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In love with Dianne, on 06 May 2014 - 1:01 PM, said:

By denying sex to the guy, she would make him miserable, and could therefore control him better.

The "control" business seems to me to be a stereotype.

It's difficult to imagine that you could control someone by making them miserable. Nobody's a slave; you can leave a relationship if you're miserable, and people do.

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Feral_Sophisticate
In love with Dianne, on 06 May 2014 - 1:01 PM, said:

By denying sex to the guy, she would make him miserable, and could therefore control him better.

The "control" business seems to me to be a stereotype.

It's difficult to imagine that you could control someone by making them miserable. Nobody's a slave; you can leave a relationship if you're miserable, and people do.

Yes, but sometimes, leaving is easier said than done - even when one party to the relationship has an unreasonable degree of control over the other. There are plenty of abused spouses who could (and probably should) leave, but don't. Quite often, there are a variety of factors in place that make leaving difficult: asset distribution, children, fear of failure and societal shame, for example. I've seen all of those elements make people stay together (in fact, I've felt more than a few of them in my own life), and I've seen (and lived) how that "holding on" can make everyone miserable.

Yes, it's easy to leave - in theory - but the intricacies of the situation can often make it harder than it would seem at first glance.

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Touchofinsight
In love with Dianne, on 06 May 2014 - 1:01 PM, said:

By denying sex to the guy, she would make him miserable, and could therefore control him better.

The "control" business seems to me to be a stereotype.

It's difficult to imagine that you could control someone by making them miserable. Nobody's a slave; you can leave a relationship if you're miserable, and people do.

Yes, but sometimes, leaving is easier said than done - even when one party to the relationship has an unreasonable degree of control over the other. There are plenty of abused spouses who could (and probably should) leave, but don't. Quite often, there are a variety of factors in place that make leaving difficult: asset distribution, children, fear of failure and societal shame, for example. I've seen all of those elements make people stay together (in fact, I've felt more than a few of them in my own life), and I've seen (and lived) how that "holding on" can make everyone miserable.

Yes, it's easy to leave - in theory - but the intricacies of the situation can often make it harder than it would seem at first glance.

While I agree with everything you just said... In hindsight, you can't put a price on freedom. It is worth every penny, every night of light sleep, every drop of nervous sweat, and every tear dropped.. Sweet sweet freedom and a return to a healthy environment. When your in a toxic relationship..... get the fuck out as fast as you can.

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Feral_Sophisticate

While I agree with everything you just said... In hindsight, you can't put a price on freedom. It is worth every penny, every night of light sleep, every drop of nervous sweat, and every tear dropped.. Sweet sweet freedom and a return to a healthy environment. When your in a toxic relationship..... get the fuck out as fast as you can.

Agreed. Having been in a toxic/stifling/claustrophobic relationship in the past, I'll not do it again.

Life is simply far too short for one to live it, mired in unhappiness.

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Feral_Sophisticate, on 06 May 2014 - 6:43 PM, said:
Sally, on 06 May 2014 - 5:50 PM, said:
In love with Dianne, on 06 May 2014 - 1:01 PM, said:

By denying sex to the guy, she would make him miserable, and could therefore control him better.

The "control" business seems to me to be a stereotype.

It's difficult to imagine that you could control someone by making them miserable. Nobody's a slave; you can leave a relationship if you're miserable, and people do.

Yes, but sometimes, leaving is easier said than done - even when one party to the relationship has an unreasonable degree of control over the other. There are plenty of abused spouses who could (and probably should) leave, but don't. Quite often, there are a variety of factors in place that make leaving difficult: asset distribution, children, fear of failure and societal shame, for example. I've seen all of those elements make people stay together (in fact, I've felt more than a few of them in my own life), and I've seen (and lived) how that "holding on" can make everyone miserable.

Yes, it's easy to leave - in theory - but the intricacies of the situation can often make it harder than it would seem at first glance.

Having gone through a marriage and a divorce, I understand all the factors that make it difficult to leave.

But what I was replying to was the idea that you could control someone by making them miserable. (see bolded above)

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Feral_Sophisticate
Feral_Sophisticate, on 06 May 2014 - 6:43 PM, said:
Sally, on 06 May 2014 - 5:50 PM, said:
In love with Dianne, on 06 May 2014 - 1:01 PM, said:

By denying sex to the guy, she would make him miserable, and could therefore control him better.

The "control" business seems to me to be a stereotype.

It's difficult to imagine that you could control someone by making them miserable. Nobody's a slave; you can leave a relationship if you're miserable, and people do.

Yes, but sometimes, leaving is easier said than done - even when one party to the relationship has an unreasonable degree of control over the other. There are plenty of abused spouses who could (and probably should) leave, but don't. Quite often, there are a variety of factors in place that make leaving difficult: asset distribution, children, fear of failure and societal shame, for example. I've seen all of those elements make people stay together (in fact, I've felt more than a few of them in my own life), and I've seen (and lived) how that "holding on" can make everyone miserable.

Yes, it's easy to leave - in theory - but the intricacies of the situation can often make it harder than it would seem at first glance.

Having gone through a marriage and a divorce, I understand all the factors that make it difficult to leave.

But what I was replying to was the idea that you could control someone by making them miserable. (see bolded above)

Well, as one who's had women try to use sex (either granting or withholding it) as a means of manipulating my behaviour, yes, it's entirely possible.

It doesn't always work, though, but it can, depending on the situation and circumstances.

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In love with Dianne

Feral_Sophisticate, on 06 May 2014 - 6:43 PM, said:

Sally, on 06 May 2014 - 5:50 PM, said:

In love with Dianne, on 06 May 2014 - 1:01 PM, said:

By denying sex to the guy, she would make him miserable, and could therefore control him better.

The "control" business seems to me to be a stereotype.

It's difficult to imagine that you could control someone by making them miserable. Nobody's a slave; you can leave a relationship if you're miserable, and people do.

Yes, but sometimes, leaving is easier said than done - even when one party to the relationship has an unreasonable degree of control over the other. There are plenty of abused spouses who could (and probably should) leave, but don't. Quite often, there are a variety of factors in place that make leaving difficult: asset distribution, children, fear of failure and societal shame, for example. I've seen all of those elements make people stay together (in fact, I've felt more than a few of them in my own life), and I've seen (and lived) how that "holding on" can make everyone miserable.

Yes, it's easy to leave - in theory - but the intricacies of the situation can often make it harder than it would seem at first glance.

Having gone through a marriage and a divorce, I understand all the factors that make it difficult to leave.

But what I was replying to was the idea that you could control someone by making them miserable. (see bolded above)

Well, as one who's had women try to use sex (either granting or withholding it) as a means of manipulating my behaviour, yes, it's entirely possible.

It doesn't always work, though, but it can, depending on the situation and circumstances.

CONTROL.png

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