To Sexual Partners

[alwaysloveher]

I am a sexual with an asexual partner. I just wanted to share some of my experience.

I am 20 years old (I know I am very young) and had known my partner for many years before she told me she was asexual(and just to clear it up i found out she was asexual before we actually started dating). Finding this out was a surprise, but it did not change how much I loved her. I fully support her in this and I do every thing I can to not be a burden. We have been together happily for a while now and are due to be married soon. While I do not know about other sexuals, I know that my interest in sex is completely romantic, this makes this relationship a lot less complicated for the both of us because not only do I try not to pressure her into sex, but I am thankful that she does not pressure me into sex as I had been in previous relationships. (And I know that I am a sexual because I do have sexual urges, but only towards someone I feel deeply for and only at certain times). We often have long conversations explaining to the other how we each view sex, such as what it is about, any emotions that are attached to it or felt during, what makes it important or unimportant, and we always try to help the other to understand our personal views. I believe this helps our relationship a lot.

As for explaining it to other people. Most people that I tell react the same way. They act confused, then they question the integrity of our relationship, and finally make a statement about how they could never do it. But I never let any of this bother me, I love my partner very much and i support her completely in her asexuality. In fact I asked her if there was somewhere I could go to learn more and she pointed me here. I have spent several days reading everything I can find on this site, though I am pretty sure that she will not know that I posted this. Which is not a big deal to be because I'm not posting this for her, I'm posting this to try to help others that may be in a similar situation.

[XjanuaryXmoonX]

heh, nope, she'll never find out

[alwaysloveher]

heh, nope, she'll never find out

o_o I underestimate her...

[n44ww]

alwaysloveher,

I've been married 21 years, to a woman who appeared and acted sexual until we had children. Then, to quote her, "I'm just not interested." There are plenty of posts of disillusioned sexuals in the same situation. It appears to me that between sexuals and asexuals, there can be no middle ground, no compromise. Sex means the asexual is doing something distasteful. Celibacy means the sexual is prevented from sexual expression.

If perhaps you find yourself also to be asexual, though, perhaps not as "extreme" as the woman you love, then marriage may work for you. In general, people are rarely "on the same page", but then at least the two of you are in the same book. If you definately consider yourself to be sexual, then marriage will be a constant struggle for you - is this the basis for wedded bliss?

Look deep into yourself and realize that the decision to get married should be based on compatability. Are you truly compatible with someone that has a strikingly different urges?

[Hi =)]

I'm married to someone that I'm not sure if he'd be classified as asexual or not. He said early in our relationship that he was rather indifferent to sex, but seemed rather sexual, but now it's a rare occurrence for him to be interested once every month or so. When he is in the mood, he enjoys it a great deal, but when he isn't, the very thought of it is almost more than he can take. I, on the other hand, would love to "get some" multiple times every day. I started masturbating (not really realizing what I was doing) when I was about 6 and did so pretty much every day (changing it up once I realized what it was) until I started living with my now husband. I toned it down because I was embarrassed about it and would have been very uncomfortable if he were to find out.

Since he seemed somewhat sexual to begin with (still not as much as me) I would sometimes try to initiate activities, and for a while he would, more often than not, go along with it. As time went on, I started to find that if I brought it up/tried to initiate anything when he wasn't in the mood he would get very unhappy and somewhat depressed and start talking about how he's terrible to me and mean, depriving me of something, but he just couldn't bring himself to do it. I've tried to tell him he isn't terrible or mean for not wanting to partake in that particular activity, there is nothing wrong with him, just the way it is, but he still feels bad about it. As I this happened more and more frequently I've managed to not bring it up, however much I want it, because I don't want him to feel bad turning me down, which is almost inevitable.

I turned back to masturbation, trying to sneak it in when I thought he wouldn't find out, because I knew that if he caught me, he'd start to feel bad that he wasn't "satisfying" and I didn't want that. And this was up to ten times a day. While this would provide some relief, it still wasn't/isn't truly satisfying or fulfilling, because what I crave is the overall package: looking into his face, the feel of his body, kisses, etc. and being alone in a bed can't simulate that, so I still feel something lacking. We started talking about it a little bit and he said that he wouldn't mind me taking care of myself anytime (so I didn't have to be so sneaky about it) and he would even be willing to hold me while I did, once in a while. Still not quite what I crave, or as often, but a step in the right direction.

But then, one Saturday morning I mentioned something about "having some fun" and he said I could if I wanted, but he was getting up. He got dressed, went into the bathroom to put in his contacts. When he left the bedroom and closed to door behind him I started to "take care of business." This was all going fine until heard him leave the bathroom and walk downstairs. For some reason, this was just too much for me. I felt sick and broke down crying (needless to say, business did not get finished). I lay there, shaking, punching the bed and sobbing (as quietly as possible), trying to compose myself enough to just get up and get on with my day without him knowing anything had gone wrong. Before I was completely able to pull myself together, though, he called up to me that he had made breakfast and I had to come downstairs before my eggs got cold (he is really very very sweet and I love him very much). I went to the bathroom, splashed some water on my face, tried to look like I hadn't been crying for almost an hour and headed downstairs. As we sat at the table I couldn't look at him without my lip starting to quiver and was afraid to really say anything for fear my voice would crack/give me away and then, try as I might, some tears started leaking out and he asked me what was wrong. I tried to gloss over it at first, but eventually I told him what had happened. He had thought I was upstairs having myself a grand time before heading down for breakfast when, in fact, I had been trying to bring myself to face the world. Hearing his footsteps down the stairs had felt like, even though I knew it wasn't, a total rejection of me. It was him walking away from me, not having any interest in a central part of who I am.

As someone posted near the beginning of this thread, I "felt rejected, unwanted, dissatisfied, resistable (not pleasant), angry, sad, abandoned, frustrated," and resentful. This had been brewing for quite some time, despite our attempts at communication and compromises and my attempts at accepting him where he is and trying not to take it personally. It all just exploded inside me when I heard him walking down the stairs.

The worst part is, I know he doesn't mean it this way, and he wants to make me happy. There is nothing "wrong" with him, it's just the way he is and it happens to be a far cry from where I am. It is no one's fault and neither of us are flawed, but, while we both know it, it can be hard to feel it, too.

Everything else about our relationship is wonderful and I can usually deal with this incongruity with little problem, but I still get frustrated and even a little resentful at times. We are considering seeing a therapist about what we can do/change to make this "problem area" less of an issue, for both of us, him to not feel pressured, me to have some relief without feeling pushy or rejected and both of us to not feel guilty or frustrated.

Sorry, this turned out a lot longer than I anticipated...

[n44ww]

:(

[n44ww]

As an experiment, try not talking about what you want to do. Just ease into romance. foreplay, etc. In my case, she really doesn't want to talk (or even think) about what we are doing, but if it happens and she gets interested, things will work sometimes.

[Hi =)]

As an experiment, try not talking about what you want to do. Just ease into romance. foreplay, etc. In my case, she really doesn't want to talk (or even think) about what we are doing, but if it happens and she gets interested, things will work sometimes.

I generally don't talk about it unless I'm feeling desperate and even then I'm as vague as possible. We are both affectionate anyway, so if I'm hoping for something with my caresses and kisses, but he isn't, it doesn't come across as a come on unless he's feeling more open to friskiness and I feel at least slightly less rejected when nothing happens. I'm trying to let it always be up to him to bring it up/initiate but it can be a huge struggle, laying in bed cuddling, desperately wanting something more, thinking about how it's been a month and every thing in me is desperate for even the tiniest, quickest of touches because it's what he wants to do, not because he feels he has to. Sometimes it's so hard and frustrating I just want to turn around and quietly/softly (so as not to disturb him) sob at the wall...

[sonofzeal]

I generally don't talk about it unless I'm feeling desperate and even then I'm as vague as possible. We are both affectionate anyway, so if I'm hoping for something with my caresses and kisses, but he isn't, it doesn't come across as a come on unless he's feeling more open to friskiness and I feel at least slightly less rejected when nothing happens. I'm trying to let it always be up to him to bring it up/initiate but it can be a huge struggle, laying in bed cuddling, desperately wanting something more, thinking about how it's been a month and every thing in me is desperate for even the tiniest, quickest of touches because it's what he wants to do, not because he feels he has to. Sometimes it's so hard and frustrating I just want to turn around and quietly/softly (so as not to disturb him) sob at the wall...

How does he respond when you initiate, if your hands wander during cuddles? That's a signal he's not likely to miss, but one that he can also decline fairly easily if he wants to. Because honestly, waiting for the asexual to initiate may be a lost cause.

[Hi =)]

If my hands wander during cuddles he'll usually ignore it, make a whiney sound, or say something about just wanting to cuddle. This sometimes also leads to him saying something about being sorry for being so terrible to me regardless of my statements to the contrary, so I try not to do this anymore, either.

[Olivier]

How does he respond when you initiate, if your hands wander during cuddles? That's a signal he's not likely to miss, but one that he can also decline fairly easily if he wants to. Because honestly, waiting for the asexual to initiate may be a lost cause.

I'd second that with one important proviso: it may be a bit of a lost cause unless you've talked about it and agreed that that's a better way of doing things for both of you.

The asexual partner initiating sex is something that works well for my partner and I. Basically, if the job of initiating is left to me (I'm sexual), then it goes one of two ways: 1) I ask too much, my partner feels pressured, her willingness goes way down, nothing happens, stress ensues for both of us, or 2)I try as hard as possible not pressure her, after what I feel has been a reasonable time with no requests, I pick a time where neither of us is busy and the kids aren't around, and suggest something. Only to find that now's not really a great time for her, but "two nights ago I would have said yes if you'd asked." That's sooooooo not good.

One of the other reasons it doesn't work for us is that my partner needs a bit of time to get in the right frame of mind for her to enjoy sex, so spontaneous requests almost always fail. But scheduling sex (even on the level of "how about tomorrow night?") doesn't work well for us either, because it just gets my expectations up, and my partner feels deadline pressure which stops her feeling relaxed about it, and if she's not relaxed she bails out and I end up doubly disappointed because we'd made a plan and then ditched it.

Knowing that we just get into bad dynamics with me initiating, or scheduling, we both prefer the way it works when she initiates: she knows when it's been a while and I'll be wanting sex, or I can drop hints, and when she's got her head into the right space, she initiates something that she's comfortable with. The only real downside is that sometimes she'll initiate at a time when I don't actually want sex, which leaves me conflicted about whether to say no given that the next time could be weeks away (rainchecks for the next day just don't seem to work very often), or just say yes and count on getting into it as we go (which usually works ;)).

So it sort of works well for us, but only because we consciously choose that approach over the others based on our own experience. We're not rigid about it - I initiate sometimes, and as long as I don't ask too often, that reasonably often leads to either a yes, a "how about later on", or a counteroffer on what we actually do.

But none of that worked so well before we sat down, and talked through what wasn't working for each of us with the other approaches, and agreed that although counterintuitive, the asexual partner initiating sex worked better than the alternatives, for us. If we hadn't had that talk, and I'd just unilaterally decided - based on the stress that came from me initiating and getting rejected - that I'd leave it to her, then I'd probably still be waiting, her not being a mindreader and all.

[Tepris]

May as well throw my hat into the ring here also.

Physical/romantic hetero male in a 3+ year relationship with an asexual partner. She didn't realise she was asexual for sure until about 8 months ago (but it's something we have kind of expected to this point). There is somewhat of a frustration between my desire to initiate sexual things (in this case, I'm not just talking about actual sex but other physical cues like kissing leading to such things) and her not responding to them. And, in a reverse sense, she can be frustrated by me fairly bluntly and aggressively asking her for sexual favors when I am aroused.

These are exacerbated by the things that turn me on personally -- of those, a lot of them are things that she can't accommodate, asexuality aside. Not going to go into much detail about this but we do have our own sets of compromises with regards to these.

I joined these boards to better understand the way she feels, and also to learn more about sexuality and asexuality as a whole. I've already learned a lot about others' situations from chats I've had on the boards even now, and I'm glad this resource is available for both myself and my partner.

[Lishoo]

There were quite a few things I was curious about, since I still don't really understand sexual people. I'm sure many asexuals can relate.

I decided to do a study, so I made a survey, that I'd really appreciate if people completed.

If the findings prove to be useful, I can post them on here if they help anyone understand attraction any better.

Thanks in advance!

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WWDPTZT

[LXXXIII]

My girlfriend recently admitted to me that she is an asexual. I am so very flattered that she told me in that I KNOW how difficult it must be to come out with that. I know that she trusts me and is comfortable with me to that degree. That being said, I feel devastated by this news. I would like to point out that I am a zen-Bhuddist pacifist who is generally very open minded. I have gay and bi-sexual friends that I hang out with and I refuse to allow myself to, even for a second, skew the way I view them just because of preference or differences. Asexuality is, in my mind, the same. But... I just dont know how to describe my sorrow. Finally a girl I can connect with so very deeply and have great feelings for truly believes she can not have the same feelings for me. I only want happiness for us, happiness for me, and just as much, for her. We make each other happy and thats what matters but (and there are a lot of "buts" going on in my mind) I doubt I can recieve the same affection she has for me that I have for her. I'm a very patient and soft-spoken person and I would like so much to be there for her and her "special someone" she wants me to be. But... I feel that the more we bond, the more my sexual desires grow and then... well I guess I will have to feel like she has no desire to return my physical affection, leaving me feeling abondoned. I understand entirely that physical attraction isn't all a relationship is about but I do feel it is 50% while the emotional bond is the other 50% we can have a very healthy attachment emptionally... but (there's that word again) thats still only half a relationship. Its just that she's looking for a "more than a friend, special someone" which I want so much to be, but, I'm looking for a partner. Someone who wants to make love when ready as an event of bonding and love and trust and feels a level of affection I have for them. I completely refuse to allow this to be the end of our relationship as I want to work through this and make this work and we have, admittedly, grown closer in our emotional relationship from very open discussion about this topic... please if someone has something they can say to help... I am ummm... well lets just say I've been googling "asexuality" for 13 hours straight

[Tanwen]

Welcome to AVEN, I'm so glad you've found your way here. There are others in your situation and hopefully they will be able to offer you some good advice. Is your girlfriend a member here? If not, do you think it may be worth while pointing her in this direction.

I truly wish you both the very best of luck.

[Waterbottle20]

I'mI've heard that Avilmil stuff is just crap though. Now we are talking about going to sex therapy, to help me with my 'problem'. I don't consider it my problem, b/c I am not the one bothered by not having sex.

Your bf sounds very closed minded and focuses on just himself. You're right, it doesn't sound like you have a "problem" with not wanting sex, he does. So it's HIS problem.

both wrong.

Sex or lack thereof in a relationship is both people's problem, because it's a part of the relationship dynamic. just because one party suffers doesn't mean the other party isn't instigating it, intentionally or not.

such ignorance, it's along the same lines as saying that a baby is only the woman's problem, because it's in the woman's belly.

[I_am_landscape]

Dear people,

First I want to just say thank you. I have been reading for hours- I read this whole thread, as well as browsing other parts of the site and I cannot say emphatically enough: AVEN excels at the E - I feel educated and inspired. So many thoughtful, understanding and articulate people. Not only have I learned loads about other individuals, society and my own experiences by reading this, I have genuinely had to 'expand' my mind a bit to take in concepts previously outside my understanding or experience; this process alone has caused me to have all sorts of fresh ideas, not directly to do with a/sexuality, just as my brain's response to thinking in new ways. Inspiration as a result of education, I guess. Thanks again :-)

I am female, sexual, age 33, strong sexual preference for men, not currently in a relationship. The reason I want to contribute is that I feel I have experienced shades of so many things people in this thread have been saying, both the sexuals AND the asexuals, and that this in itself might be interesting and hopefully, useful to share.

I have been in a relationship where, despite being a very sexual person, my once strong sexual attraction to the man faltered and disappeared. I assumed first that there was something wrong with me. It turned out, there was something wrong with the relationship. But, because I still loved the man I believed that if we could keep working we could heal the other problems we had- I just couldn't see that the relationship was at fault and nor I could I link this sexual issue to the other problems. My understanding of it now is that, for me, mind and body are much closer than my culture teaches and that my body 'knew' something was wrong before my mind would accept it. I would liken this in some ways to the ability of some people (myself included) to dowse.

My partner and I did discuss it, in an open and caring way. I can see in retrospect ways that we could both have handled it better- we did our best at the time but I know so much more about these things now. We split in the end due to other problems. I guess really we limped on for a year longer than we should have done, while for both of us our feelings caught up with our rational attempts to address our conflicting aims in life.

I'm telling this story because I have spotted a potentially confusing parallel that I feel should be made more visible. The sequence of events described above could easily be made to sound like the model of a person who has not realised they are asexual and has discovered it whilst within a relationship. The relationship I'm talking about was not my first sexual relationship, but was the first time I'd lived with a partner. If it had happened in my first sexual relationship, I'd have been even more confused and concerned. In fact, in my previous relationship I had experienced a tailing off of desire for the man in parallel with our relationship hitting problems and whilst in some ways this helped my understanding when I encountered it again, it also made me more confused, upset and worried. I really wanted to make it work with this man, yet here I was, faced with my body's messages that I might not be able to.

I hope it's obvious that I'm not saying people who do discover they are asexual whilst within a relationship are simply in the wrong relationship! That really would mean I'd learned nothing! I'm simply drawing attention to the fact that it may sometimes 'look the same'and I'm doing this for several reasons:

1) Quite a few sexual partners have written on here suspecting asexuality in their partner. Whilst some are clear that 'everything else is perfect in the relationship' others do not give that information. In fact some of the posts have strongly indicated otherwise, often in a way that appears unconscious on the part of the writer. There may be the occasional situation where a person on here realises they or their partner are not, as they suspected, asexual after all (I seem to recall a case of that way back at the beginning of the thread). NB I'm not saying this would be preferable, just assuming we're all seeking the truth about who we are.

2) It may give an additional insight into the fear that both a sexual and asexual partner might feel during the process of discovery: people say (daftly, I've often thought, but still...) "if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...chances are it's a duck" So, if your relationship starts resembling a scenario which one or other partner may have previously experienced (or observed in other couples) as symptomatic of 'relationship breakdown' (i.e. quacking like a failing relationship because sexual attraction has disappeared) it's going to add to the fear and the difficulty in working out what's really going on. Awareness of possibly false similarities might help people avoid the pitfalls of unhelpful duck analogies :-)

3) Several people in the thread have described various ways in which their suspectedly asexual partner will not delve into his or her own reasons/feelings. This could be due to fear about what he/she will discover about him/herself, but also fear due to what he/she will discover about his/her feelings towards their partner. When my sexual attraction to my partner disappeared, I felt I had the choice between believing I was 'broken' sexually and believing my relationship was 'broken' and both options felt like agony! [NB, I don't believe being asexual is being 'broken'just that I personally would feel broken if suddenly unable to access or share any part of my personality, sexual or otherwise, which I had been previously able to, positively]. Perhaps even more importantly, the suspected/actual asexual may not be feeling the fear- the sexual may be projecting that fear onto them because they feel it themselves. Again, projection clouds the 'truth'.

4) Discovering my own relationship with my own body, in terms of what it can tell me about my feelings and even sometimes what it can tell me about the outside world (beyond the usual 5 senses and beyond sex) has been a very personal journey and I know few people who really relate to it, though I've heard lots of unconscious descriptions of similar and there's certainly plenty in common parlance e.g. 'someone just walked over my grave!' or 'his hackles were up' or 'my heart flipped when I saw it happen'. I guess it's as varied for asexuals as sexuals. On one hand I suspect from some of what I've read here that many asexuals may feel much less connected to bodily messages in this way, but on the other hand it sounds like for some, perhaps they're more sensitive in certain ways? Or different ways? Either way, consideration of this may help asexual understanding of the difficulty and confusion some sexuals may experience when bodily messages change or are withdrawn. And vice versa.

5) it's yet another way of attempting to describe why sexual attraction is important/significant to sexuals, without directly relating to the sex act (or related pleasure) itself. Perhaps this might be useful?

Right, well, I've waffled on for ages and this was only the first example I wanted to share! I hope you will all understand that I'm just really deeply interested in all that I've read here and excited by the opportunity to discuss and contribute, and you won't feel I'm pushing my ideas forward in the wrong place.

Thanks again and best wishes.

[Not-You]

Edit. Delete this if necessary. Thanks!

Edited January 7, 2011 by Not-Trapped

[I_am_landscape]

I know you say you've talked a lot, but once ( or if) she reads all the material on this website, your conversations are bound to change. She's bound to have to readjust her thinking just as you have done. New ideas might lead to new solutions?

We both believed in abstaining from premarital sex (for some reason--neither of us is particularly religious), but we defined that limitation as penetrative thrusting. Everything else was "on the table" so to speak and I perceived us to have a "normal," healthy sex life. My wife was very eager to participate in sexual behavior, often initiating herself.

Is it penetration which is the particular problem? If this were totally 'off the table' again, might she in time feel more able to access the feelings she appeared to access before you were married? I know you said her enthusiasm tailed off as the wedding approached, but maybe she was getting more and more apprehensive about having to go further?

I guess when she reads the site she might go 'blimey! yes! I'm asexual' but then the problem will be redefined and she may be less likely to be 'rubbed raw' by discussion? Which will help. Or, she might go 'I'm not asexual!' but then she will have to work to answer within herself why not which again, may lead to her being able to, at length, access any sexual feelign she does have, even if they are mild. It will get her thinking about it separately from issues between you, which has to help.

Um, I;m not the best person to answer this- I'm a newbie on the forum and I'm not struggling with a similar situation, so apologies if it seems I;m speaking out of turn. Just saw your post come up and thought you'd appreciate the immediacy of of my response for being simply input from another person, even if not the best person.

[Asexy Existentialist]

5) Like I'm less of a man (who would admit to their friends that they don't have sex?),

...

10) I can't help but laugh at the thought of having "good hugging/snuggling sessions."

For what it's worth, I think it takes a hell of a man to give up sex for his wife. That's sacrifice. That's love. That's incredible. If 'being a man' is all about 'getting some,' I'm sure glad I'm not heterosexual. And besides that, I think that any man who talks about his private sex life and the most intimate parts of his wife with his friends is not husband material and is being totally disrespectful. You don't have to admit anything because you shouldn't be talking about it.

As for the hugging, you should like hugging your wife. If you can't enjoy holding your wife close to you, why are you even married? Even if you're having sex, a good hugging or snuggling session should still be nice.

I don't mean to sound offensive with any of this, by the way. I admire your willingness to forgo sex because of your love for your wife. But if love is not enough, don't keep her trapped in a marriage that neither of you deserve.

[Not-You]

Is it penetration which is the particular problem? If this were totally 'off the table' again, might she in time feel more able to access the feelings she appeared to access before you were married? I know you said her enthusiasm tailed off as the wedding approached, but maybe she was getting more and more apprehensive about having to go further?

Thanks for the quick responses! No, I don't believe that penetration is the issue, although we will certainly have to talk about it. I'll let you all know.

5) Like I'm less of a man (who would admit to their friends that they don't have sex?),

...

10) I can't help but laugh at the thought of having "good hugging/snuggling sessions."

For what it's worth, I think it takes a hell of a man to give up sex for his wife. That's sacrifice. That's love. That's incredible. If 'being a man' is all about 'getting some,' I'm sure glad I'm not heterosexual. And besides that, I think that any man who talks about his private sex life and the most intimate parts of his wife with his friends is not husband material and is being totally disrespectful. You don't have to admit anything because you shouldn't be talking about it.

As for the hugging, you should like hugging your wife. If you can't enjoy holding your wife close to you, why are you even married? Even if you're having sex, a good hugging or snuggling session should still be nice.

I don't mean to sound offensive with any of this, by the way. I admire your willingness to forgo sex because of your love for your wife. But if love is not enough, don't keep her trapped in a marriage that neither of you deserve.

Love is enough, that's my point. I don't WANT to have the above feelings...but I do. And "being a man" is not all about "getting some". My brief explanation was just that--too brief. My point was merely this: most men, as part of their identity (whether right or wrong, and whether its societal or not), feel that part of their masculinity is rooted in being sexually attractive to heir partner. "If my spouse, the woman with whom I am going to spend the rest of my life, is not sexually attracted to me, what does that say about me?" <--this is what goes on in my (our?) mind. I want to move beyond this emotion. As far as talking about it with other men, there's such a thing as the "locker room mentality," and that's just something I will have to overcome. I, quite literally, have to deal with the locker room in my recreational hockey league--you would be blushing until the cows come home to hear what goes on in there, and every single one of us is in a committed relationship. I am not to believe that (at least some) women don't talk about their sex lives with their friends? Maybe I'm mistaken. In any case, it's a personal problem I'd like to surpass.

I love holding my wife close. When I laugh at the idea of a "good snuggling session," it's not because I laugh at the closeness, it's because no sexual person who commits to what they believe is a sexual relationship plans on snuggling their whole lives instead. It's plain not enough...until it HAS to suffice. So I'd like to get to the point of accepting that snuggling does, in fact, HAVE to suffice for my wife and I.

Thanks for your input!

[Asexy Existentialist]

5) Like I'm less of a man (who would admit to their friends that they don't have sex?),

...

10) I can't help but laugh at the thought of having "good hugging/snuggling sessions."

For what it's worth, I think it takes a hell of a man to give up sex for his wife. That's sacrifice. That's love. That's incredible. If 'being a man' is all about 'getting some,' I'm sure glad I'm not heterosexual. And besides that, I think that any man who talks about his private sex life and the most intimate parts of his wife with his friends is not husband material and is being totally disrespectful. You don't have to admit anything because you shouldn't be talking about it.

As for the hugging, you should like hugging your wife. If you can't enjoy holding your wife close to you, why are you even married? Even if you're having sex, a good hugging or snuggling session should still be nice.

I don't mean to sound offensive with any of this, by the way. I admire your willingness to forgo sex because of your love for your wife. But if love is not enough, don't keep her trapped in a marriage that neither of you deserve.

Love is enough, that's my point. I don't WANT to have the above feelings...but I do. And "being a man" is not all about "getting some". My brief explanation was just that--too brief. My point was merely this: most men, as part of their identity (whether right or wrong, and whether its societal or not), feel that part of their masculinity is rooted in being sexually attractive to heir partner. "If my spouse, the woman with whom I am going to spend the rest of my life, is not sexually attracted to me, what does that say about me?" <--this is what goes on in my (our?) mind. I want to move beyond this emotion. As far as talking about it with other men, there's such a thing as the "locker room mentality," and that's just something I will have to overcome. I, quite literally, have to deal with the locker room in my recreational hockey league--you would be blushing until the cows come home to hear what goes on in there, and every single one of us is in a committed relationship. I am not to believe that (at least some) women don't talk about their sex lives with their friends? Maybe I'm mistaken. In any case, it's a personal problem I'd like to surpass.

I love holding my wife close. When I laugh at the idea of a "good snuggling session," it's not because I laugh at the closeness, it's because no sexual person who commits to what they believe is a sexual relationship plans on snuggling their whole lives instead. It's plain not enough...until it HAS to suffice. So I'd like to get to the point of accepting that snuggling does, in fact, HAVE to suffice for my wife and I.

Thanks for your input!

Women talk about it too. I don't understand it and I think it's disrespectful and gross. Of course, with pornography and oversexualization being so prevalent in our culture, I guess nothing is private anymore. But in any case, your wife isn't not sexually attracted to you because you're ugly. She just doesn't feel that way about anyone. I'm sure she still finds you aesthetically appealing, because otherwise, she probably wouldn't have married you. You're still her world - she just doesn't want in your pants.

I'm of the personal opinion that if you truly love someone, even being in the same room with them should be enough. But I guess I'm a rare breed which is probably why I'll die alone.

[Not-You]

But in any case, your wife isn't not sexually attracted to you because you're ugly. She just doesn't feel that way about anyone. I'm sure she still finds you aesthetically appealing, because otherwise, she probably wouldn't have married you. You're still her world - she just doesn't want in your pants.

Intellectually I know this (she's insisted this to be true for years), emotionally I'm just not there yet.

I'm of the personal opinion that if you truly love someone, even being in the same room with them should be enough. But I guess I'm a rare breed which is probably why I'll die alone.

It IS enough, or rather CAN be enough. The problem for people in my situation is that, at the time the commitment is made, there is an implied promise, at least in the mind of the sexual, that it will never HAVE to be enough.

[Sally]

I'm of the personal opinion that if you truly love someone, even being in the same room with them should be enough. But I guess I'm a rare breed which is probably why I'll die alone.

As an asexual I can see that that isn't really possible--or at least probable--for sexuals. For most sexuals, love for a romantic partner includes sex. For most asexuals, love doesn't include sex. Neither of us can say any real "shoulds" about the other because there's a significant difference there.

[Olivier]

Hi, Not-Trapped. I'm in a similar position to you, a few years further down the track, and I've had a go at your questions:

But here's my question to sexuals in my situation: how do I overcome the following feelings as we travel down this path?

1) The occasional despair when imagining a sexless marriage,

2) Feeling "cheated." (a healthy sex life is supposed to be a part of the deal, right? It's part of the life experience?),

3) Like I've "missed out" by not having experiences before my wife (she's been my one and only),

I've grouped these together because the answer is the same for all of them: You can have a marriage with great sex, as long as it is with someone else. If you feel that you would lose too much by ending your current marriage, then that's also your answer as to why you are where you are. As far as occasional despair is concerned: have enough perspective to know that it's occasional. It sucks, but so do a great many things.

4) Like I've been tricked into marriage,

If you felt your wife had perfect self-knowledge and knew exactly how things would be now, then that's fair. If she was also finding out how things are, how she is, then it's less fair.

5) Like I'm less of a man (who would admit to their friends that they don't have sex?),

Yep, that's a pain, because even if you accept it, you can't make other people accept it. Other people suck, often.

6) Like she should give me something in return for me not having sex (I do almost all of the chores currently, for example, she does more of them from now on?),

Well, if it made you feel loved for her to help out around the house, then it might be a fair ask on that basis, but I'd caution against attaching a price to a sexual compromise - that comes with a high risk of resentment somewhere down the line.

7) That, despite what she says, I am ugly, fat, etc.,

Because this really isn't about you. Seriously, if she says she finds you attractive, then you'll be a lot better off if you believe her.

8 ) That we aren't even married. We're just roommates/friends raising kids together.

As much as I like sex, I don't really see it as some benefit of marriage. Unlike you, my wife and I both had no desire to wait for marriage, and we both didn't, so for us, marriage really is about being the greatest of friends raising kids together.

9) That she will feel I'm a pervert for ANY sexual comment/glance/touch, etc. (she has said as much in the past)

This is a biggie. One price you should attach to accepting her asexuality is that she also accept your sexuality, which could be tricky for her if she thought any level of sexual increase above her own was abnormal. We were at that point once, but we talked our way past it, and we have a deal that I can express the fact that I find my wife sexy any way I want, and she'll take it as a compliment on her attractiveness, as it's meant.

10) I can't help but laugh at the thought of having "good hugging/snuggling sessions."

*TMI*

Perhaps if you're a bit creative you could make that into something more sexual for you than her, perhaps by incorporating masturbation into more intimate snuggling sessions.

11) That it's cruel of her to be so damn hot.

I know exactly what you mean, but you really shouldn't be complaining about having a hot wife ;) :P

-----

You mentioned that you wife didn't think it was fair to ask you to go without sex. That sounds like the hard work of getting her to accept your sexuality is mostly done, and perhaps with good communication and a bit of creativity, you can find ways to compromise that both of you enjoy. We have.

[Not-You]

Sir Laurence,

THANK YOU for your reply. Your input, and the input of those in situations like ours, is what I am searching for at this point.

But I have to say "crap," because I was hoping (though honestly not expecting) for answers more helpful than "get over it." :) I've updated my Avvy to reflect your advice.

I will say that below is an excellent point and it is well taken.

4) Like I've been tricked into marriage,

If you felt your wife had perfect self-knowledge and knew exactly how things would be now, then that's fair. If she was also finding out how things are, how she is, then it's less fair.

Through our many previous discussions, we've determined that she "can't remember" if she actually had sexual feelings early in our relationship or if she was just going along because she felt she had to. This indicates to me that she hasn't ever really investigated her own sexuality, and so it is therefore unfair of me to really feel tricked by her. Thanks for that perspective. I'm ashamed to say that I didn't think of it myself (I consider myself pretty rational and empathetic--Wish I was more of both now).

I was thinking last night about the idea that "just being in the same room" with my wife should be enough, and it brought me to an analogy I've often used in my own mind:

Being married to a woman to whom I am overwhelmingly sexually attracted, but also to whom I am unable to express my desires is like having the most delicious-looking piece of chocolate cake (insert your own food here) in your fridge for decades without even being able to smell it.

Not that I want to "use" my wife like I would a piece of cake, but the idea is similar.

Thanks again to everybody. I'll try to keep updated.

[newgirl]

How does he respond when you initiate, if your hands wander during cuddles? That's a signal he's not likely to miss, but one that he can also decline fairly easily if he wants to. Because honestly, waiting for the asexual to initiate may be a lost cause.

I'd second that with one important proviso: it may be a bit of a lost cause unless you've talked about it and agreed that that's a better way of doing things for both of you.

The asexual partner initiating sex is something that works well for my partner and I. Basically, if the job of initiating is left to me (I'm sexual), then it goes one of two ways: 1) I ask too much, my partner feels pressured, her willingness goes way down, nothing happens, stress ensues for both of us, or 2)I try as hard as possible not pressure her, after what I feel has been a reasonable time with no requests, I pick a time where neither of us is busy and the kids aren't around, and suggest something. Only to find that now's not really a great time for her, but "two nights ago I would have said yes if you'd asked." That's sooooooo not good.

One of the other reasons it doesn't work for us is that my partner needs a bit of time to get in the right frame of mind for her to enjoy sex, so spontaneous requests almost always fail. But scheduling sex (even on the level of "how about tomorrow night?") doesn't work well for us either, because it just gets my expectations up, and my partner feels deadline pressure which stops her feeling relaxed about it, and if she's not relaxed she bails out and I end up doubly disappointed because we'd made a plan and then ditched it.

Knowing that we just get into bad dynamics with me initiating, or scheduling, we both prefer the way it works when she initiates: she knows when it's been a while and I'll be wanting sex, or I can drop hints, and when she's got her head into the right space, she initiates something that she's comfortable with. The only real downside is that sometimes she'll initiate at a time when I don't actually want sex, which leaves me conflicted about whether to say no given that the next time could be weeks away (rainchecks for the next day just don't seem to work very often), or just say yes and count on getting into it as we go (which usually works ;)).

So it sort of works well for us, but only because we consciously choose that approach over the others based on our own experience. We're not rigid about it - I initiate sometimes, and as long as I don't ask too often, that reasonably often leads to either a yes, a "how about later on", or a counteroffer on what we actually do.

But none of that worked so well before we sat down, and talked through what wasn't working for each of us with the other approaches, and agreed that although counterintuitive, the asexual partner initiating sex worked better than the alternatives, for us. If we hadn't had that talk, and I'd just unilaterally decided - based on the stress that came from me initiating and getting rejected - that I'd leave it to her, then I'd probably still be waiting, her not being a mindreader and all.

I realy hope asexual men read this GOOD advice because i think some asexual women need to initiatie outercourse,oral sex ,anal sex or intercourse in a relationship sometimes or a sexual man will have one unhappy asexual woman.

[I_am_landscape]

Women talk about it too. I don't understand it and I think it's disrespectful and gross. Of course, with pornography and oversexualization being so prevalent in our culture, I guess nothing is private anymore.

I think the issue of what it is and isn't acceptable to discuss about a relationship, outside of that relationship, is very complicated and subtle. I mean, blimey, this whole thread is about discussing the most intimate, personal, psychology and interactions of people and their partners, as well as their sexual interaction, and I think we all agree it is positive and beneficial that we are doing so.

It would be easy to see the 'locker room' end of the spectrum as being less positive or useful, sure. But it is possible for comments to be bawdy but still with underlying respect, for example. And sometimes it can be invaluable, depending on the level of knowledge of the people talking, e.g. someone hears others discussing their 'exploits' and discovers "What? You mean it isn't normal for it to hurt?". In other situations, humour and bawdiness are ways of masking embarassment when the anonymity of the internet is not available.

I repeatedly had arguments with my last boyfriend because he didn't want me to say anything about our relationship to anyone, ever. I tried to explain that this was impossible for me because part of my location within my various communities included that fact that he and I were a couple. So, for example, if we had a commitment to attend a gathering together and he, at the last minute, didn't feel able to 'face the other people' because of the emotional issues he was experiencing, I would have to make explanation on his behalf. If the gathering were of really close, trusted people like my family, I wouldn't feel comfortable lying and nor did I feel it the best way forward: it would not foster understanding of the genuine ongoing situation, nor build the acceptance, which I trusted would be forthcoming, of the fact that people are all different with different needs.

I also tried to explain to him that half the content of the relationship, that which related to my personal feelings about myself, belonged to me and it was my right to discuss them (with respect and responsibility) as I needed to do so. For example, I would sometimes find myself returning to the house at night with a genuine (not unrealistic) fear that I would find he'd killed himself, and those experiences started to take a huge emotional toll on me. I felt I needed to build up my coping strategies by talking about my feelings with a trusted individual outside the relationship, without placing additional burden on my partner by discussing it with him too often.

I bring this up because I wrongly assumed, initially, that his concerns were that I was discussing our sex life, which, I reassured him, I wasn't. He actually said he'd prefer that! He'd prefer that, than to think I was discussing the fact that I was unhappy, whilst in the relationship, because he felt the latter reflected more badly on him, because it was his job to make me happy. I tried to explain that it was my job to make me happy, he was just my invaluable deputy! And even if he was the cause of some of my unhappiness, sometimes, I owned that unhappiness and it was my right (and responsibility) to try and deal with it as I saw fit (with respect, extreme care, thought and responsibility to him, too) such as by discussing it with trusted others, a strategy I knew from experience would work for me. But, He'd much rather I was going "phwoar, my boyfriend!...sex!..." or even "Oh dear. My boyfriend. Sex...". Horses for courses.

I agree with Olivier though

"5) Like I'm less of a man (who would admit to their friends that they don't have sex?),

Yep, that's a pain, because even if you accept it, you can't make other people accept it. Other people suck, often."

Not-Trapped,

If the friendships are shallow, or at least shallow in that particular area of understanding, then despite what I say above, I would recommend you just divert, lie and avoid if it makes it easier. Or make them feel guilty by implying they are 'less manly' for being so ungentlemanly as to discuss their wives like meat! Or even the honest approach: I can imagine the scenario "Aw mate, what, you're not getting any? Shucks." *slaps you on the back* subject closed. Or tell them you've read that abstinence will improve your athletic performance ;-)

[Not-You]

Not-Trapped,

If the friendships are shallow, or at least shallow in that particular area of understanding, then despite what I say above, I would recommend you just divert, lie and avoid if it makes it easier. Or make them feel guilty by implying they are 'less manly' for being so ungentlemanly as to discuss their wives like meat! Or even the honest approach: I can imagine the scenario "Aw mate, what, you're not getting any? Shucks." *slaps you on the back* subject closed. Or tell them you've read that abstinence will improve your athletic performance ;-)

For what it's worth I actually DO NOT discuss my sex life with my friends. Or, not actively any way. If it comes up, I'm usually just quiet. Maybe some eye-shifting and the comment "uh, yeah *cough* we have sex. Isn't sex great you guys!?" Something like that. As far as the actual "locker room" goes, nobody takes that stuff seriously, because it's usually comments like "I had sex with your wife last night and she said I was better! But your mom and sister said that too!" Since everybody is lying in that situation, its easier to just ignore everything.

I suppose my real point was that, to a degree, my masculinity is tied to sex. Prowess, attractiveness, etc. That's just who I am. I will have to replace it with something else "manly." Maybe I should become a part-time lumberjack? ;) Actually having a discussion with my male friends about sex would merely be the way I would have to admit my "non-masculinity" (which I don't, as I mentioned above--just the thought of it is embarrassing).

If anybody is curious, I've been editing my posts lately because it seems likely my wife will be viewing these forums soon and (as dishonest as it may be) I don't want her to know that I HAVE been discussing these intimate details, even anonymously. When I started posting, I didn't imagine that she would ever see me here. But we had a little half-version of "the talk" and, when she didn't recoil at the notion that she may be asexual, I forwarded the FAQ link to her. So there's a chance she'll be here and I don't think she'd appreciate knowing that I've said some things to strangers.

[Asexy Existentialist]

I think the issue of what it is and isn't acceptable to discuss about a relationship, outside of that relationship, is very complicated and subtle. I mean, blimey, this whole thread is about discussing the most intimate, personal, psychology and interactions of people and their partners, as well as their sexual interaction, and I think we all agree it is positive and beneficial that we are doing so.

It would be easy to see the 'locker room' end of the spectrum as being less positive or useful, sure. But it is possible for comments to be bawdy but still with underlying respect, for example. And sometimes it can be invaluable, depending on the level of knowledge of the people talking, e.g. someone hears others discussing their 'exploits' and discovers "What? You mean it isn't normal for it to hurt?". In other situations, humour and bawdiness are ways of masking embarassment when the anonymity of the internet is not available.

I don't have a problem with people talking to close friends confidentially about problems or concerns. I have a problem with people talking about their sex lives without asking their partner if it's okay that they do, and I have a problem with people who are just saying "Guess what my wife let me do to her last night" and "You'll never believe this weird fetish my wife has..." because that is private, intimate stuff that should stay in the relationship, especially when said without consent or in such a blatantly disrespectful way. If you need to mask embarassment, you are not talking to people you can trust and should not discuss such intimate things with them.