Cate Perfect Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 This is from the advice column on Slate.com called Dear Prudence. Usually I agree with what she says, but this time...not so much. Dear Prudence,My wife and I have been married for almost 30 years. (We're in our early 50s.) We have two teenage children. We haven't had sex in more than 11 years. (This really isn't a new situation; there have been other instances of no sex for several years previously.) I don't know how to talk to her about this. Over the years, there were/are good excuses why she wasn't interested—illness, tiredness, menopause, stress, etc. I have tried to be understanding, realizing that I can't force her to make love. It just hurts that she would rather watch TV than be with me. She says she loves me, but there's no passion—no kissing, no hugging, let alone sex. She won't let me touch her when we're in bed. She seems to think there's nothing wrong with our relationship. I can't understand how she can say she loves me when there is this big void in our lives. I don't know what to do. I really think our marriage is over, but I can't leave because it would destroy the kids. (Part of me doesn't want to bring it up with her—if I don't, there's always the possibility things will get better. If I bring it up, she might say "forget it"—then the door is closed.) Is this what they mean by "for better or for worse ... ?" —Aching for a Kiss Dear Ache, Your situation is not what is meant by "for better or for worse." That means ill health, rotten luck, lean times, etc. It does not mean a wife having a headache for 11 years. Prudie thinks you are mistaken in a two major areas: a) People in a dead marriage do kids no favor by hanging on, and B) your "not bringing it up" because things might get better—as if by magic—does not fly. Tell your wife of three decades that the two of you can pick a couples' counselor or a pair of lawyers. This is probably not what you expected to hear, but that is Prudie's considered opinion. —Prudie, realistically Right. So, the woman--who has no problem with the relationship--should be the one to change or get a divorce? Cate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mng bata Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 It would be wonderfull if you wrote her and stood up for us! Perhaps she does not even realize people like us exist. (many "normal" people don't, or can't comprehend it, so they think we made it up, or misinterpret our feelings) She is right in that "staying married for the kids" is harmfull to them. She is also right in that he needs to talk to her - nothings going to get better with lack of communication. But what he seems to be asking is "does she still love me?" "Is here love for me somehow not connected to her 'attraction' to me?" (this, as we probably all know all too well, is really hard for "normal" people to realize) So I say you could help this man who obviously loves his wife very much and doesn't seem to want to leave her, feel more secure in his relationship with her. Even mentioning something like this message board, might be good for their relationship, because who knows, she may not even know that there is anybody else out there that feels the same. It might help her to have a support group! He is the one with the problem, yes, but that doesn't mean he can't choose whether to be with her or not. I do not think Prudie is wrong in his right to divorce her, just in her interpretation of his feelings. He never once says he can't handle this, or doesn't love her. He simply is asking if it is possible that perhaps she could still love him despite her obvious "unattracted" to him state. I say he needs someone to stand up and say "YES, it is Very possible that she loves you deeply, why don't you talk to her about it!" Often, advise givers print letters they recieve that cover ground they have not considered. I hope a letter explaining this to her, and him, would get printed. I say go ahead and try, stand up for us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cate Perfect Posted December 31, 2004 Author Share Posted December 31, 2004 I did that some time ago when something similar happened, I've only just remembered...Let me see if I can find the thread...*rummage rummage* Here we are: http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?showtopic=1543 She never responded to my letter, by the way. Perhaps if several AVENites responded? Cate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 I don't think she's saying that the woman has to change. She's telling him that since the marriage is not working for him he has to tell her so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cijay Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 I agree with Jeremy. She's more or less saying that if it's important to him and it's not important to her, it should be discussed and if they find that's enough grounds to split up, so be it. I DO, however think this IS what the 'for better or worse' meant. If they took that part lightly (or better yet, why don't people modify their wedding vows to being "unless") in the beginning, they're sitting in the mess they created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabger Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 That's total bullshit. He goes without sex for 11 years and for some odd reason NOW he should talk about divorce? Sounds like he can deal with it alright. And as we all know, sex does not equal love. I find it incredibly irritating that people are stupid enough to think this. I mean people have sex all the damned time and theres no love involved. But if there is love there HAS to be sex? Humans are fucking idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gypsylady Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 It never ceases to amaze me how terrified people are to talk to each other. If she had had the freedom to talk about her lack of sex drive early on, they wouldn't be having this problem now. Of course, this would take either a huge amount of courage (since I can imagine that she feels defective and just wants to hide from the whole problem and hope it goes away) or some acceptance and encouragement from somewhere . "He" also would most certainly have spoken long before now if he felt safe in doing so. It sounds to me like he, too, has some distorted thinking going on ("If I ask her about it, if I have to back her into a corner, if she says she doesn't want to have sex anymore, there is no hope for us.") But he can't find the courage he needs either, and so he also hopes that the situation will resolve itself if it's ignored. What they need a a marriage counselor who knows of aseuxality and can apply it to their situation. It IS scary to tell people what we honestly feel. Sometimes a mediator can be very helpful, to clarify and reclarify, if need be. Most us of are chicken shits at heart. Most of us are also guilty of hoping that if we pretend everything is ok, everything *will* be ok. It's childish, but it's what we do. We aren't taught to communicate in the ways we need to know about in order to make relationships work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winged Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 alot of people who are asexual still don't know they are asexual. for me, it wasn't a matter of being afraid to talk about it, it was a matter of not understanding my own feelings enough to express them coherantly. i know i was in a relationship for a long time with someone i loved. i kept thinking i just needed to get used to it or learn to trust more. i'm sure there's plenty of people who don't know how to explain to their partners their lack of sexual attraction despite loving them. alot of them might not understand it themselves. i certainly wouldn't if i didn't have the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cate Perfect Posted January 1, 2005 Author Share Posted January 1, 2005 It never ceases to amaze me how terrified people are to talk to each other. If she had had the freedom to talk about her lack of sex drive early on, they wouldn't be having this problem now. Thank you! What I don't get about stories like that is--how did this not come up BEFORE you got married? Perhaps I'm being naive here, but I thought married was supposed to be forever (try to stifle your laughter). Whenever I hear some person say they can't believe their spouse does/doesn't want kids/to move/whatever I think, 'That's sort of a life decision--why didn't you discuss it before you pledged your life to another person?' If I ever get married (which I probably won't) I'm going to have a freakin' SCROLL of questions. Then I'm going to say, 'And to me marriage is forever so if it doesn't work out ... one of us has to die ...You get what I'm saying, lovemuffin?' I DO, however think this IS what the 'for better or worse' meant. If they took that part lightly (or better yet, why don't people modify their wedding vows to being "unless") in the beginning, they're sitting in the mess they created. Absolutely. I've always said that wedding vows should be honest. 'I promise to love you forever...unless you gain thirty pounds or I meet someone better than you.' 'I promise to stay with you until the end unless you lose all of your money, then it's buh-bye, bucko!' I think most people do have a line that's 'too much' but they think 'Oh, that'll never happen to US!' Right. Cate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pejoratist Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 I don't think the problem is Prudie's advice(she's merely suggesting communication). I think the problem is this guy's silent ultimatum: discuss the problem with his wife, or divorce her immediately. Sounds rather unreasonable and one-sided an action. However, I still believe that if Prudence was aware of asexuality in the first place, then she would have been equipped to give better advice. Therefore I suggest that any interest AVENite send her some informative, but non-offensive mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winter Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 If I ever get married (which I probably won't) I'm going to have a freakin' SCROLL of questions. Then I'm going to say, 'And to me marriage is forever so if it doesn't work out ... one of us has to die ...You get what I'm saying, lovemuffin?' cheers! i understand that people change their minds from time to time, and those aren't always things that can be planned for, but there are some topics that ought to be broached before what is supposed to be a life-long commitment is entered. thank you, cate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mng bata Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 " i kept thinking i just needed to get used to it or learn to trust more. i'm sure there's plenty of people who don't know how to explain to their partners their lack of sexual attraction despite loving them. alot of them might not understand it themselves. " Beautifully said wing - exactly how I feel! Cate - "Then I'm going to say, 'And to me marriage is forever so if it doesn't work out ... one of us has to die ...You get what I'm saying, lovemuffin?' " ROFL I like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cijay Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Humans are fucking idiots. Absolutely! I think it's in human DNA. :lol: I'm trying to imagine one of those Discovery channel archaeology shows, they look at a skull and say "I would say this was a female, about 20 years old and...yes, as expected, a fucking idiot! Exactly how far back DOES this trait go in homosapiens?" It never ceases to amaze me how terrified people are to talk to each other. In this day and age...for sure! People are quick to tell you they don't do church, they don't eat meat, they don't eat anything unorganic (inorganic? non-organic?) they don't do this, they don't do that, THIS is what you have to get used to if you want "us" to work out, yet they 'forget' or 'don't want' to tell them abo ut 'the sex thing'? But, 30 years ago was quite different. It was the sexual revolution, everyone was doing it and many were doing it with ANYONE. People were just getting used to gays & lesbians being out in the open. I imagine she felt very alone in 1974 figuring she was "the only one" who didn't want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antishock8 Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cate Perfect Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 What a fantastic post, antishock. You articulate quite well many of the problems that arise between sexuals and asexuals in our society--I hope you stick around and post more. We love allies! :D Particularly intelligent allies. What bothers me no end is the idea that she doesn't love him because she doesn't want to have sex with him. I don't connect those two things in my mind so it really doesn't make sense. You can have sex without love so why can't you have love without sex? It's also something I've heard my parents arguing over--I suspect my mother is asexual because she never wants sex and my father is quite sexual, which annoys us both (my mother and I). I've heard him say he doesn't think she loves him because of her disinterest in sex...*baffled expression* Cate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antishock8 Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gypsylady Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 the only solution is for our culture to undergo a massive psychological shift in order to de-emphasize sexuality... and I just don't think it's going to happen. Therefore I'm not too optimistice about an asexual armistice between A's and S's.... and it's too bad because it has cost a lot of people some really amazing relationships. Great point, AS, about de-emphasizing sexuality. No, it may not happen anytime soon and, yes, it has caused untold damage to relationships. Your point re sexuals taking it personally when an A doesn't want sex is also well taken. But I don't think jealousy is solely in the realm of sexuals. I'm A but I can be insecure enough that, when a friend who I want attention from (for whatever reason, although most often because I'm attracted to them in another way that causes me to want to make them a permanent part of my life) pays more attention to someone else, I *will* feel jealous. It's that controlling, needy part of me that I am not enlightened enough to give up. I don't believe I mastered "sharing" in kindegarten :D . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winged Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 anti-shock, your post was making my eyes start to get teary. i share all your same opinions and sentiments on the subject. i have struggled to put concrete words and reasoning to all the mixed feelings my ex and i struggled with for so many years and you expressed everything perfectly. bravo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YP Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 What bothers me no end is the idea that she doesn't love him because she doesn't want to have sex with him. I don't connect those two things in my mind so it really doesn't make sense. You can have sex without love so why can't you have love without sex? It's also something I've heard my parents arguing over--I suspect my mother is asexual because she never wants sex and my father is quite sexual, which annoys us both (my mother and I). I've heard him say he doesn't think she loves him because of her disinterest in sex...*baffled expression*Cate It doesn't make sense to me now, but it used to, oh yes indeedy. I broke up with my first real boyfriend because of our inability to have sex with each other. We were together for 18 months and neither of us actually wanted to take it further. Looking back on it, I'm kicking myself because with hindsight he may well have been A too, but at that point in my life I hadn't looked into my sexuality and was still under the impression that if you didn't have sexual attraction to someone you didn't love them. I managed to convince myself that I could never give him what he wanted, sadly without actually asking him whether he did. And where did this impression come from? The media of course. And things like this, even if at heart they do only come down to a communication issue, do seem to perpetuate the idea that a lack of sexual attraction is a problem rather than something natural which should be discussed between loving partners and worked through. If only I'd realised that 6 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dastraube Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 The guy deserves sympathy, not his wife. Sex for most people is an important part of life. She's changed her attitude towards it after her marriage vows and doesn't appear to be even sorry about it. It's only his problem in the same sense that it would be his problem if after their marriage she decided that she wanted to sleep with other people. Many sexuals feel that they are not loved if they cannot touch or be touched. We don't (as asexuals) have to understand this, but we should believe these folks when they say they feel this way. He married her presumably with the understanding that he could have sex with her at least occasionally. He feels rejected when he can't even touch her. She wasn't forced into this marriage and if she'd communicated how she might change, he may well have chosen someone else who had a higher libido. I think she should not give him a "take it or leave it" attitude. That's not love. If she loves him, she should think "I love him. I've lost interest in sex or discovered that I'm asexual and this is causing my husband to make a difficult choice of living a life without sex or leaving me. I'm going to see if doctors or counselors can help me (because they can sometimes for some people and it is a reasonable request of my husband) and if they can't, then I'm going to find other ways of communicating that I love him" And what is he supposed to do? The ball is not so much in his court, other than whether he decides to leave. I think he must be communicating love for her by sticking around 11 years in a sexless marriage with someone who doesn't appear to be even sorry about her change of interest in sex. I believe in "for better or worse", too. But a marriage consists of commitments and promises that are made to each person that go beyond just sticking around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cate Perfect Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 But she didn't suddenly change. From his letter it sounds like she was never interested. He says there were always excuses. Either way, I'm still lost why people don't talk to each other early on. Thirty years ago was '74. People were discussing sex then, it was 1940, for crying out loud. He went into it thinking he'd be able to have sex when he wanted and she went into it thinking love wasn't about sex. And antishock: You weren't offensive at all--it's incredibly helpful to have the opinion of a sexual person who doesn't take asexuality as some sort of personal insult. :D Cate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonePiper Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 Antishock, Wow. You've just taught me a whole lot, believe it or not. What you said really helps me understand sexuals so much better than what I did before. Thanks! Like Cate said, there was nothing in your post that could be seen in any way to be offensive, at least to myself. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antishock8 Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winged Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 The guy deserves sympathy, not his wife. Sex for most people is an important part of life. She's changed her attitude towards it after her marriage vows and doesn't appear to be even sorry about it. It's only his problem in the same sense that it would be his problem if after their marriage she decided that she wanted to sleep with other people. Many sexuals feel that they are not loved if they cannot touch or be touched. We don't (as asexuals) have to understand this, but we should believe these folks when they say they feel this way. He married her presumably with the understanding that he could have sex with her at least occasionally. He feels rejected when he can't even touch her. She wasn't forced into this marriage and if she'd communicated how she might change, he may well have chosen someone else who had a higher libido. I think she should not give him a "take it or leave it" attitude. That's not love. If she loves him, she should think "I love him. I've lost interest in sex or discovered that I'm asexual and this is causing my husband to make a difficult choice of living a life without sex or leaving me. I'm going to see if doctors or counselors can help me (because they can sometimes for some people and it is a reasonable request of my husband) and if they can't, then I'm going to find other ways of communicating that I love him" And what is he supposed to do? The ball is not so much in his court, other than whether he decides to leave. I think he must be communicating love for her by sticking around 11 years in a sexless marriage with someone who doesn't appear to be even sorry about her change of interest in sex. I believe in "for better or worse", too. But a marriage consists of commitments and promises that are made to each person that go beyond just sticking around. he does deserve sympathy. but so does she. you can't just blame one person or the other. people cannot just simply change to please the other person. these compromises will add up to feelings of guilt, begrudging, and resentment. these situations are extremely tough on both people involved. communication is important, chances are neither of them fully understand their feelings as well as their partners. giving someone an alternative like "change or he's gonna leave you" doesn't open the doors for open, honest, healing dialogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cijay Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 The guy deserves sympathy, not his wife. No, I think he deserves his wife. It sounds like everything else is fine but I guess if, in his mind he deserves/has a right to someone who will do everything he wishes...then yeah, maybe he doesn't deserve her and should find another. Again, it's so hard for me to understand why you desert your best friend friend because she won't screw you. I understand that it IS that way, I just will never understand why. I just have to accept that THAT'S the rules according to...according to...well, whoever it's according to. But a marriage consists of commitments and promises that are made to each person that go beyond just sticking around. I agree they need to be heeded or don't put them in the marriage vows at all (assuming they had a church not a secular marriage). In either case, does anyone figure that having sex was in the contract/vows. '74 was also the time where they were re-writing the traditional vows, getting rid of "obedience"...but again, if they had 'obey' IN their vows then, yes, she signed her right away. people cannot just simply change to please the other person. This is such a common mistake people make. How many times do you hear "I thought I could change him" with anything, any addictions, temper, attitude... If the sex thing ever came up between them before, they were probably BOTH saying they thought they could change the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dastraube Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 The guy deserves sympathy' date=' not his wife. [/quote']No, I think he deserves his wife. It sounds like everything else is fine but I guess if, in his mind he deserves/has a right to someone who will do everything he wishes...then yeah, maybe he doesn't deserve her and should find another. Again, it's so hard for me to understand why you desert your best friend friend because she won't screw you. I understand that it IS that way, I just will never understand why. I just have to accept that THAT'S the rules according to...according to...well, whoever it's according to. It's an overstatement to say he deserves/has a right to someone who will do everything he wishes. What's so different about his attitude than anyone else's whose spouse has stopped having sex? He's saying he hasn't had sex in 11 years and he would like sex or at least some physical affection (kissing/touch) in the relationship. I don't understand the desire to have sex, but I know that most people do and I have to accept that it's a very important part of their life just as sexuals have to accept that it's not an important part of my life. I think it's natural for us to want to sympathize with the wife in this situation because she is like us. But we should not because she's the one who changed and is getting what she wants (apparently) and he's the one who has been "disadvantaged". If as Cate says, she's never wanted sex, then that's one thing. But as I read it, they've had sex in the distant past and she's changed from wanting/allowing it infrequently to never. Well, that is a change. There are a lot of active ways to hurt a marriage like saying hurtful things, wasting money on oneself, physically abusing one's spouse. But there are passive ways to hurt a marriage like not saying "I love you" , not helping with the dishes, and withdrawing from sex or physical affection when that was part of the marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeymagic Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 I think hubby needs to wake up and rethink why it is he married this woman. And I think this goes for a lot of people who enter into marriages and feel "trapped" because they're not getting as much or any sex now than they were in the past. Maybe about a year ago, I started searching for clues to figure out why I didn't feel the way it seemed I should feel. Non-intercourse sexual contact just didn't appeal to me and a friend who was, I guess, desperately trying to make me want to give him a blowjob. And I didn't. I couldn't stop thinking, "Ew ... who would put that in their MOUTH??" and since I knew my mom felt the same way, I was almost sure it was a common feeling. So I looked around online and found so many women who didn't like it but did it anyway because they "loved giving their man pleasure" which didn't make sense to me ... and then found advice columns where men felt their marriage was RUINED! RUINED! because their wife wouldn't blow them. This column reminds me so much of those--where the columnist (supposedly a female but I have my doubts) would say that this was something the WIFE had to get over and that if her husband WANTED one then she should be up for giving it a go and if she doesn't want to, it must be because she was raised in a prudish Christian household where she was told that genitals were "dirty". So I felt offended by this because I knew that I wasn't taught sexuality or genitals were "dirty" ... I just didn't want my mouth on anyone's wang and didn't see where love came into play with that. And to be told you should "just do it" or get counselling ... as if there's something wrong with YOU instead of the guy who's basing the success of his relationship on oral pleasure ... it's just offensive. This is sort of related too--I was talking to some stranger who didn't get what I meant about not being a sexual person (another of the, "You're sexy so you must be hypersexual!" people) and he didn't seem to get that if I was in a relationship I wouldn't want sex ever. He said he couldn't have a relationship where he went without sex. So I asked what would happen if his wife had cervical cancer and he said, "Since she loves me, she would have sex with me even if it caused her lots of pain." Yes, I understand sex is important but I don't understand why people place it on such a pedestal in a relationship. I'd hope they have a lot more in common than the fact that one has a penis and one a vagina. Couples who find they don't have sex in common need to find other activities they can do together--ones where both members of the relationship will be happy. And just consider all the variables in a relationship that might lead to (usually the wife) being uninterested ... pregnancy, childbirth, fatigue, stress, hormones or hormone therapy, menopause, age, illness ... no time ... I think that women should feel more empowered to say "no" when they DON'T WANT TO instead of going with the flow just because it's what's expected of them. Sorry this is sort of disjointed and ranting but UGH IT DRIVES ME NUTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gypsylady Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 The guy deserves sympathy, not his wife. Sex for most people is an important part of life. She's changed her attitude towards it after her marriage vows and doesn't appear to be even sorry about it. <snip> She wasn't forced into this marriage and if she'd communicated how she might change, he may well have chosen someone else who had a higher libido. <snip> I think he must be communicating love for her by sticking around 11 years in a sexless marriage with someone who doesn't appear to be even sorry about her change of interest in sex. I believe in "for better or worse", too. But a marriage consists of commitments and promises that are made to each person that go beyond just sticking around. This seems to me to be a quite unfair attitude. I don't think it's right for anyone to assume anything about this couple's situation. In the quoted column, we only heard one side, after all. Not only that, no one knows in what ways they themselves may change from year to year. She may well have entered the marriage in good faith, only to find that her interest in sex took a hike. Both need to communicate better with the other - and that goes, as well, for *any* relationship, whether friend or lover. I also agree with those who posted that they had no way to understand or even identify their sexual feelings in years past. We are always evolving and, hopefully, learning more about ourselves if we are in touch with our feelings (something many people don't understand how to do because they were never taught) and ourselves in general. There is no way to predict what or how we will feel from year to year, or even day to day. BTW, I just want to say again that this forum is great. Very thoughtful and sincere people... "the unexamined life is not worth living" kind of takes on a whole new meaning here. I've been lurking pretty consistently since initially posting a while back... I can't seem to stop reading what y'all have to say. Too damn smart for your own good sez me!! Antishock, you're a darlin', you are :D ! Glad you're here! I think it's natural for us to want to sympathize with the wife in this situation because she is like us. But we should not because she's the one who changed and is getting what she wants (apparently) and he's the one who has been "disadvantaged". <snip> there are passive ways to hurt a marriage like not saying "I love you" , not helping with the dishes, and withdrawing from sex or physical affection when that was part of the marriage. But we sympathize because we know how difficult it is to show affection to a sexual who may not believe or understand *our* feelings. I have been in situations (trying to be "sexual" before I knew *what* I was) where I felt constantly pressured and stressed by what I knew my partner wanted, and I hoped that it would decrease if I pulled away a little bit. It's really tough to be affectionate when you know that a cuddle is meant (in the mind of the sexual you're with) to lead to sex. I *love* cuddling, hugging, and affectionate pecks. But I wouldn't dare to display affection if I felt trapped (as in a marriage) with someone who expected that any of it would lead to being sexual. Whether or not I commited to being sexual, if I lost all interest and ability to enjoy sex, I would be afraid that *any* action on my part would be misinterpreted. This is why I made the point (in an above post) that, ideally, they need to see a therapist who is familiar with asexuality. And, for what it's worth, my feeling is that *both* are disadvantaged and in pain. And I can't condemn one or the other for not knowing how, or not feeling safe enough, to communicate their feelings. I'd hope they have a lot more in common than the fact that one has a penis and one a vagina. Couples who find they don't have sex in common need to find other activities they can do together--ones where both members of the relationship will be happy. And just consider all the variables in a relationship that might lead to (usually the wife) being uninterested ... pregnancy, childbirth, fatigue, stress, hormones or hormone therapy, menopause, age, illness ... no time ... I think that women should feel more empowered to say "no" when they DON'T WANT TO instead of going with the flow just because it's what's expected of them. AMEN!! I found your post to be quite clear and expressive. And I totally agree with what you had to say. I would hope, like you, that two people who were in love enough to pledge their lives to one another would have much more in common that their male+female parts. And there are *many* times when a woman may not feel the desire to have sex. I once read a study (sorry, it's been many years ago so I can't cite my source) that in women, when confronted with stress, the sex drive was the first "need" to be put on hold by the body. Gypsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cait Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 what's the point in having sex after menopause, hullo? ;p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cate Perfect Posted January 3, 2005 Author Share Posted January 3, 2005 If as Cate says, she's never wanted sex, then that's one thing. But as I read it, they've had sex in the distant past and she's changed from wanting/allowing it infrequently to never. Well, that is a change. Yeah, that's a change. That's a woman saying, 'I've let you do something very intimate to me that I don't like for years and I'm not going to let you anymore.' Good for her. If a single woman who constantly dated men who treated her with no respect finally said, 'I'm not going to put up with that anymore!' we'd applaud. So just because this woman happened to be married she's supposed to tolerate what is really a violation of her body by someone who apparently 'loves' her? I always doubt the sincerity of feeling by those people who'd do something like that to someone they care about. If I really like a person I don't want to cause them distress or emotional trauma. Personally, if I had to have sex with someone several times...well, I'd be a homicidal maniac by now, probably, but if that didn't happen I'd at least resent the person who was coercing/guilting/whatevering me into sex. Rapists. That's what they are. Because it's not really consensual, is it? Cate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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