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Any Other Panromantics Around?


Vampyremage

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Vampyremage

Just because I've seen a couple of "any other" threads around, I figured I'd ask if there are any fellow panromantics out there.

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Vampyremage

Romatically attracted to people of all sorts. Basically one step beyond biromantic because it can include other gender variations beyond the traditional 2.

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Romatically attracted to people of all sorts. Basically one step beyond biromantic because it can include other gender variations beyond the traditional 2.

I thought bisexuality wasn't attraction to gender but to sex. Technically, there are only two sexes. You don't sound any different from...I guess a "biromantic."

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Vampyremage

Romatically attracted to people of all sorts. Basically one step beyond biromantic because it can include other gender variations beyond the traditional 2.

I thought bisexuality wasn't attraction to gender but to sex. Technically, there are only two sexes. You don't sound any different from...I guess a "biromantic."

The difference, as I understand it, is that biromantic covers the traditional two sexes, male and female, while panromantic covers those who fall under a variety of different categories including transgendered, genderqueer, transsexual, gender neutral, ect.

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Romatically attracted to people of all sorts. Basically one step beyond biromantic because it can include other gender variations beyond the traditional 2.

I thought bisexuality wasn't attraction to gender but to sex. Technically, there are only two sexes. You don't sound any different from...I guess a "biromantic."

The difference, as I understand it, is that biromantic covers the traditional two sexes, male and female, while panromantic covers those who fall under a variety of different categories including transgendered, genderqueer, transsexual, gender neutral, ect.

Yes, but those people still fall into the lines of the two sexes. A transgendered male might feel like a female, but biologically until he goes through the transition, he's a he. A bisexual could be attracted to him, simply because he is a male. When he changes and becomes a female, the bisexual could still hold attraction to her, being a bisexual and all. Same goes for the other groups. They may feel different in terms of gender, but in terms of sex, they are either one or the other which a bisexual could become attracted to.

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bitterforsweet

Romatically attracted to people of all sorts. Basically one step beyond biromantic because it can include other gender variations beyond the traditional 2.

I thought bisexuality wasn't attraction to gender but to sex. Technically, there are only two sexes. You don't sound any different from...I guess a "biromantic."

Not to be rude but the myth that there are only two sexes (referring to the genitalia one is born with) is rubbish. Technically their can be any number of sex verriation. Certianly more than boy/girl. Every day there are plenty of babies born with ambiguous and nontraditional genitalia and reproductive organs that don’t align with the gender that their parents/society/doctors want to assign to them. Unfortunately, doctors and parents can't handle the idea of their child not being 'normal' so these children can have their natural genitalia surgically altered to be more 'normal' and socially accepting at any stage of their childhood.

So, that being said, being panromanitc is not like being bisexual. Bisexuality is attraction to both male and female sexes. Pansexuality/romanctic includes any sex, gender identification, or sexuality.

And, I'm panromanitc too! 8) :cake:

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Vampyremage

Thanks you bitterforsweet and awesome to see I'm not the only panromantic lurking about :)

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bitterforsweet

The way I see it, I'm already asexual so I like to keep any and all other options open :rolleyes:.

Actually I just enjoy and appreciate people too much to ever be able to limit myself to being attracted to certain ones.

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Romatically attracted to people of all sorts. Basically one step beyond biromantic because it can include other gender variations beyond the traditional 2.

I thought bisexuality wasn't attraction to gender but to sex. Technically, there are only two sexes. You don't sound any different from...I guess a "biromantic."

Not to be rude but the myth that there are only two sexes (referring to the genitalia one is born with) is rubbish. Technically their can be any number of sex verriation. Certianly more than boy/girl. Every day there are plenty of babies born with ambiguous and nontraditional genitalia and reproductive organs that don’t align with the gender that their parents/society/doctors want to assign to them. Unfortunately, doctors and parents can't handle the idea of their child not being 'normal' so these children can have their natural genitalia surgically altered to be more 'normal' and socially accepting at any stage of their childhood.

Yes, that happens, but I'm not so sure it's as widespread as you're making it out to be; moreover, it's a really a birth defect. There have been examples where someone is born with both, gets a surgery to be let's say a man, but winds up being a woman. Guess the doctor should have done a different surgery. But, that still negates it down to male or female.

Just because someone is naturally born with something doesn't make that something correct. If I was born with an elongated tailbone (so a tail) I'd damn well want that removed. That's a defect.

So, that being said, being panromanitc is not like being bisexual. Bisexuality is attraction to both male and female sexes. Pansexuality/romanctic includes any sex, gender identification, or sexuality.

Which is exactly what bisexuality can do, since those people are still confined into the male/female binaries.

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Vampyremage

The way I see it, I'm already asexual so I like to keep any and all other options open :rolleyes:.

Actually I just enjoy and appreciate people too much to ever be able to limit myself to being attracted to certain ones.

That's pretty much how I see it as well. I can appreciate aesthetic beauty in all manner of people and I don't see the point in arbitrarily limiting myself in that manner. The main point is about the person anyway, not about whatever gender or sex they might be.

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@Conker. biological sex and gender are not the same thing. Gender is a lot more fluid than just male and female. There are millions of people who have one biological sex but do not mentally identify with that. It doesn't necessarily mean they identify as the opposite tho', or that they want to change their biological sex. They could just identify as genderfluid, genderless, genderqueer, third gender etc. And how can anyone say that they are not? I think people know their own mind better than anyone else. :)

Maybe you should take a look at this sticky thread in Gender Discussion.

What it feels like to be trans, genderqueer or genderless

As for the OP. I identify as Panromantic too. To be precise, a Panromantic Demisexual. Which is quite a mouthful :lol: but after 25 years I finally have a label which actually fits, so go me!

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@Conker. biological sex and gender are not the same thing. Gender is a lot more fluid than just male and female. There are millions of people who have one biological sex but do not mentally identify with that. It doesn't necessarily mean they identify as the opposite tho', or that they want to change their biological sex. They could just identify as genderfluid, genderless, genderqueer, third gender etc. And how can anyone say that they are not? I think people know their own mind better than anyone else. :)

This I know, but that isn't really the point. The point is, even if their gender doesn't fit with their sex, they are still confined to either the male or female sex in terms of body. A trans that goes through an operation aligns his/her gender with his/her sex, but is still either a male or female.

Gender can change. So can sex. But changing one's sex requires an operation, and you're still stuck as either male or female--which is what bisexuals are looking at.

That's pretty much how I see it as well. I can appreciate aesthetic beauty in all manner of people and I don't see the point in arbitrarily limiting myself in that manner. The main point is about the person anyway' date=' not about whatever gender or sex they might be.[/quote']

You sort of just described everyone ever. I don't know anyone who doesn't appreciate aesthetic beauty. I don't know anyone who doesn't take the personality of a person into question when they are looking for a potential significant other.

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I am panromantic as well. Or biromantic. Or whatever label.. (took me four times to decide 'label' was correct.. heh.)

Let's say I just am. ^_^

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@Conker.

I read your posts, while I don't agree with you, I suppose I can understand the way you see things...

Just so you know, 1 baby out of 1000 is born intersexual, sometimes they even fit the perfect hermaphrodite form have have both sets of genitalia fully functional.

There is also trans people who are neutrois and will undergo a full nullification to have no genitalia at all and be as androgynous as possible in all areas.

Anyways, there is many people who are not 100% female or male, body or mind, everyone is different, and I wish we could all be seen as such instead of trying to put everyone in 2 distinct boxes, but I think someone who use those boxes has to admit some people don't fit in either, at all, and others only to a certain degree...

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bitterforsweet

Romatically attracted to people of all sorts. Basically one step beyond biromantic because it can include other gender variations beyond the traditional 2.

I thought bisexuality wasn't attraction to gender but to sex. Technically, there are only two sexes. You don't sound any different from...I guess a "biromantic."

Not to be rude but the myth that there are only two sexes (referring to the genitalia one is born with) is rubbish. Technically their can be any number of sex verriation. Certianly more than boy/girl. Every day there are plenty of babies born with ambiguous and nontraditional genitalia and reproductive organs that don’t align with the gender that their parents/society/doctors want to assign to them. Unfortunately, doctors and parents can't handle the idea of their child not being 'normal' so these children can have their natural genitalia surgically altered to be more 'normal' and socially accepting at any stage of their childhood.

Yes, that happens, but I'm not so sure it's as widespread as you're making it out to be; moreover, it's a really a birth defect. There have been examples where someone is born with both, gets a surgery to be let's say a man, but winds up being a woman. Guess the doctor should have done a different surgery. But, that still negates it down to male or female.

Just because someone is naturally born with something doesn't make that something correct. If I was born with an elongated tailbone (so a tail) I'd damn well want that removed. That's a defect.

So, that being said, being panromanitc is not like being bisexual. Bisexuality is attraction to both male and female sexes. Pansexuality/romanctic includes any sex, gender identification, or sexuality.

Which is exactly what bisexuality can do, since those people are still confined into the male/female binaries.

Not to hijack this thread and take into a different direction but I don’t think it’s appropriate to let that comment slide, and I’m shocked to see it on a place like AVEN.

On the same token I think this will flesh out how important and beautiful pansexuality is.

I’m not sure you understand how inappropriate and offensive that statement was. Being born with varying genitalia and sex organs are not defects. Doctors themselves recognize that there are five sexes, males, females, true hermaphrodites, male pseudohermaphrodites, and female pseudohermaphrodits. And those are only the sexes that doctors acknowledge. As I said before, you can be born with any variation of sex.

The question of that nasty word defect comes into play when doctors and scientist don’t want to risk shaking up the heterocentric structure of our society. If we acknowledged that there were more than just boys and girls it would challenge a lot of beliefs and prejudices that exist, like the fact the one man and woman were made for each other, etc… It would change what sexuality and gender means. In fact, intersexuality is present in more than four percent of babies born. So, and I’m quoting Anne Fausto-Sterling here; “…in a student body of about 6,000, that fraction implies there may be as many as 240 intersexuals on campus – surely enough to form a minority caucus of some kind.” Those numbers aren’t defects; it’s just the way people are born. We’re all different; didn’t we all learn that in pre-school?

It’s very easy for people to stand on their illusion of higher ground with their average size penises and clitorises, or with their external testicals, and call themselves normal boys and girls, and say that anyone else is abnormal. It’s a kind detrimental kind of genital privilege that goes completely unacknowledged in this country while every day doctors and snipping away and cutting into little babies, toddlers, and developing adolescents to ‘correct’ their enlarged clitorises that could penetrate another woman. We can’t have that now can we? Where would that leave men in the social hierarchy?

This is Western thinking. Intersexuals in a lot of other cultures are glorified, honored, and seen as almost god-like, to be blessed with the two “spirits’ of both sexes.

I suggest you read Anne Fausto-Sterling’s book Sexing the Body, and think twice before calling people defected. Don’t forget that there are a lot of people who believe being asexual is some kind of defect.

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Vampyremage

@Conker. biological sex and gender are not the same thing. Gender is a lot more fluid than just male and female. There are millions of people who have one biological sex but do not mentally identify with that. It doesn't necessarily mean they identify as the opposite tho', or that they want to change their biological sex. They could just identify as genderfluid, genderless, genderqueer, third gender etc. And how can anyone say that they are not? I think people know their own mind better than anyone else. :)

This I know, but that isn't really the point. The point is, even if their gender doesn't fit with their sex, they are still confined to either the male or female sex in terms of body. A trans that goes through an operation aligns his/her gender with his/her sex, but is still either a male or female.

Gender can change. So can sex. But changing one's sex requires an operation, and you're still stuck as either male or female--which is what bisexuals are looking at.

That's pretty much how I see it as well. I can appreciate aesthetic beauty in all manner of people and I don't see the point in arbitrarily limiting myself in that manner. The main point is about the person anyway' date=' not about whatever gender or sex they might be.[/quote']

You sort of just described everyone ever. I don't know anyone who doesn't appreciate aesthetic beauty. I don't know anyone who doesn't take the personality of a person into question when they are looking for a potential significant other.

I don't think I did just describe everyone ever. While it may be true that appearance and personality both factor into most people's decisions in regards to who they may consider having a relationship with (be it a sexual or romantic relationship) many (most?) do limit themselves based on sex or gender. That's why you have people that consider themselves to be hetero or homosexual or hetero or homoromantic. Because those people have a particular sort of attraction to a particular sex or gender that they don't feel for other sexes or genders. For myself, gender and sex are mainly irrelevant to the equation of whether or not I feel that sort of attraction to a person or whether or not I might potentially consider them as a partner. The same cannot be said of many people.

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My romantic-ness is pretty fluid, and I suppose that I could identify as panromantic. However, I've never met a trans or agendered or what have you person, so I wouldn't know yet.

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I guess I'm a panromantic demisexuall, there are so may things, so many loveable variables of the human mind, why put limits? I like the ones i like, for how they act and what their "radiance" tells me about them. Its who they are that makes them romantically attractive for me, not what they are.

- Writing in love

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There is also trans people who are neutrois and will undergo a full nullification to have no genitalia at all and be as androgynous as possible in all areas.

How do those people pee?

Is there a line when it comes to surgery and gender? Some crazy dude who thinks he's a cat trapped in a mans body goes and gets his body tattooed and his face surgically altered to look more like an animal. That's considered odd, probably more than odd. Actually, I think that's pretty messed up (it did actually happen, there's a youtube video out there somewhere). We can point at him and go "that's crazy."

But, surgically messing with one's crotch to completely remove all sexual organs is fine?

I would like to know where the line is in all of this.

I’m not sure you understand how inappropriate and offensive that statement was. Being born with varying genitalia and sex organs are not defects. Doctors themselves recognize that there are five sexes, males, females, true hermaphrodites, male pseudohermaphrodites, and female pseudohermaphrodits. And those are only the sexes that doctors acknowledge. As I said before, you can be born with any variation of sex.

It’s very easy for people to stand on their illusion of higher ground with their average size penises and clitorises, or with their external testicals, and call themselves normal boys and girls, and say that anyone else is abnormal. It’s a kind detrimental kind of genital privilege that goes completely unacknowledged in this country while every day doctors and snipping away and cutting into little babies, toddlers, and developing adolescents to ‘correct’ their enlarged clitorises that could penetrate another woman.

Why is it that if someone is born with an extra toe, or a hand coming out of their ass, that's a birth defect, but if someones genitals are born abnormally that's just fine? Why is there a line that starts at the belt? It's perfectly okay to surgically remove a useless lump that shouldn't be there, but not okay to correct abnormalities in the crotch. I really don't get it. Sexual organs are just as much a part of the body as anything else, but they get special treatment because...?

I suggest you read Anne Fausto-Sterling’s book Sexing the Body, and think twice before calling people defected. Don’t forget that there are a lot of people who believe being asexual is some kind of defect.

Sounds boring. I'll pass.

People may think asexuality is a defect, and for all I know they could be right. It doesn't particularly bother me.

I don't think I did just describe everyone ever. While it may be true that appearance and personality both factor into most people's decisions in regards to who they may consider having a relationship with (be it a sexual or romantic relationship) many (most?) do limit themselves based on sex or gender. That's why you have people that consider themselves to be hetero or homosexual or hetero or homoromantic. Because those people have a particular sort of attraction to a particular sex or gender that they don't feel for other sexes or genders. For myself, gender and sex are mainly irrelevant to the equation of whether or not I feel that sort of attraction to a person or whether or not I might potentially consider them as a partner. The same cannot be said of many people.

So, what you're saying is that some high level of openmindedness needs its own sexual label?

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Vampyremage

So, what you're saying is that some high level of openmindedness needs its own sexual label?

Its not a label that I just made up. Its just as valid a label as asexual is or any other label out there. Its a description of attraction just like herero or homo are descriptions of attraction.

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So, what you're saying is that some high level of openmindedness needs its own sexual label?

Its not a label that I just made up. Its just as valid a label as asexual is or any other label out there. Its a description of attraction just like herero or homo are descriptions of attraction.

I didn't say you made up the label, but I don't think it's valid. Pansexuality is nothing more than glorified bisexuality.

Though I find it even more amusing that as an asexual, you can consider yourself to be "pan" simply because asexuals aren't sexually attracted to anything. It's not like you'll encounter the problem of staring down an...interesting looking nether region. It's already a pointless label, made even more pointless when attached to asexuality.

Ignorance is bliss.

So is delusion ^_^

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Its not wrong to say that pan and bi sexuality is the same thing if you think so. But respect others views as well as they should respect yours.

- Writing with love.

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Care to define a "panromantic" ?

I would probably consider myself panromantic, I wouldn't be able to control who i become romantically attracted to :)

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How do those people pee?

Through their urethra, I would imagine. It's not like penises and vaginas are that fundamentally different anyway...

Is there a line when it comes to surgery and gender? Some crazy dude who thinks he's a cat trapped in a mans body goes and gets his body tattooed and his face surgically altered to look more like an animal. That's considered odd, probably more than odd. Actually, I think that's pretty messed up (it did actually happen, there's a youtube video out there somewhere). We can point at him and go "that's crazy."

But, surgically messing with one's crotch to completely remove all sexual organs is fine?

I would like to know where the line is in all of this.

I guess that's for every person to determine for themselves.

Personally, I don't believe in getting in other people's business, and likewise I don't care if someone else thinks what I choose to do is "crazy". To each their own and all that.

Why is it that if someone is born with an extra toe, or a hand coming out of their ass, that's a birth defect, but if someones genitals are born abnormally that's just fine? Why is there a line that starts at the belt? It's perfectly okay to surgically remove a useless lump that shouldn't be there, but not okay to correct abnormalities in the crotch. I really don't get it. Sexual organs are just as much a part of the body as anything else, but they get special treatment because...?

No one is saying that everything else is a defect, except when someone is born with abnormal genitals. Where did you even get that from? O_o

My best friend happens to be born with half of his left arm missing. In all meanings of the word, a birth defect. But so what? That doesn't make him any less of a person and that doesn't automatically mean that he desperately wants to appear "normal". He personally prefers not wearing any prosthesis and then deal with the staring and the questions. Other people with limbs missing might choose otherwise. One isn't more correct than the other. It's all about what makes each individual most comfortable...

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I suppose I should say I'm panromantic. I say biromantic, but I guess I'm leaving out my own kind, the genderless! Which I just won't do because, well I would love to date myself if I could!

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