An old thread

[Petra_Lorre]

I don't think I really made the point of my original post very clear. Admittedly, I confuse myself at times. What I was trying to convey was this:

Life is not so simple as 'it feels good', not always.

To use an illustration: Suppose somebody invites you round for a meal. You don't love that person but they're okay. The meal they provide is tasty but it contains meat (and you're a vegetarian on principle - there's no allergy issues with the meal, it's entirely a principle thing). Even so, you really want to go and eat that meal with that person. Why?

To me, that made no sense until I realized that person was lonely. And so it got me thinking that are other reasons people enjoy or want sex. It's not always a 'feel good' thing in a purely physical sense.

Hmm...well, the few times I've violated my personal standards ("vegetarianism") nothing about the situations felt good. I didn't want to "eat the meal" but I felt a grim determination to see the thing through. I guess I suffer from a "you made your bed, now lie in it" mentality at times.

If I may shift your analogy to read "why, when I wanted nothing in the world but sushi, would I decide that Indian food was tempting" then I would say that sushi isn't readily available, but that doesn't mean that other cuisines can't still be very enjoyable (and will fill your belly if you're just really hungry). To get back to your analogy, if my vegetarian aunt were offered meat, it would only nauseate her, not tempt her. Maybe you're not really a "vegetarian" but feel conflicted because of familial or cultural mores that dictate "vegetarianism" is the only right way to approach "food" choices? Maybe you'd be happier as a "pescetarian," for instance. Whew! *wipes sweat from brow* I love a good analogy but that nearly wore me out!

[test account]

Hmm.

[Pamcakes]

Physical reasons for pursuing partnered sex over masturbation; because sometimes the scenic journey is a more pleasant route to take to your destination, rather than the express highway.

Emotional reasons are fairly self-explanatory, I think; because of the intimacy issue.

P.

[Tyni1]

I have always seen sexuals to be mirror images of asexuals. There are romantic and aromantic sexuals. We can all understand the romantic and aromantic aspects to sexuals. I would not compare the sexual need for orgasm (average/great sex) to a way of eating since it is not that specific. I would more compare it to a different type of hunger that needs to be satisfied.

I have a hunger for intimacy. I can only go so far without some sort of emotional or physically intimate contact. I do not mean sex. More like hugs, snuggling and a nice companionable silence with a friend or partner. It is not the same to sit alone and watch a movie, take a quiet walk, listen to music and go through life without someone to share that with. It is the same for sexuals, from my observation, only they need sexual intimacy.

For romantic asexuals we love intimate relationships and for aromantic asexuals friendships are more palatable. I see the same thing with sexuals. Where a relationship is preferred by a romantic sexual and a sexual hook up is fine with an aromantic sexual.

I cannot explain why I feel restless, irritable and grumpy without emotional intimacy. I just have a sense of well-being and happiness with a partner or friend. I don't feel as stressed. I have heard sexuals say the same in regards to sexual intimacy. For romantics, sexual or asexual, giving gives us more pleasure than receiving and as one member here said that "circuit" that happens increases the pleasure of being around that partner.

I think to understand an aromantic sexual I'd have to talk to an aromantic asexual. It is aromantics that I do not have that much experience with. Sexual intimacy, I understand.

I found this thread really informative What It Means To Be Aromantic

[test account]

Hmm.

[cnidaria]

Good points, Tyni1. As an aromantic sexual in a polyamorous relationship with a romantic asexual we both have different needs that we don't expect the other person to completely fill. The trick is finding a happy medium of what we are both comfortable with. We must be doing something right because we've been happily together for 11 years now. The trick is massive amounts of communication and trust.

I'm also gotten involved in the BDSM community and I've noticed that many doms/dommes/tops have unarticulated asexual leanings. A proper dominant does things for the other person and controls exactly how far things go, so I've seen asexuals much more comfortable in that role. Also, BDSM doesn't have to have anything to do with sex, so it's a way for some sexual and asexual partners to both gets needs met.

Vampyrmage, if you know your body, generally masturbation has better physical feelings than with a partner. However, with a huge amount of communication and trust, you can show him/her what you like and he/she may surprise you with some really good ideas that you can then try on yourself, assuming this is something you're interested in (it's not for everyone). Also, this is good for lazy people. :P But that's just physical stuff. If you want good physical feelings, masturbation is the easiest way.

[Avistew]

Why do I like sex? Mmh...

If you go beyond the "because it makes me stop being horny" which is purely physical (and akin to "I like peeing because it makes me stop having to pee"), I think the emotional plaseure I get from it is of closeness and intimacy.

When you have sex with someone, you are being intimate with them and you're at your most vulnerable. Most obvious reason: you're naked. But also, you're dropping your usual barriers and being yourself, and not playing a role anymore. When I have an orgasm (sorry if it's TMI), I become extremely vulnerable (as in, can't walk for a bit, need to just lie there and recover, things like that). A lot of men are similar, so sharing that moment when you could so easily be taken advantage of or killed without being able to fight back is a very bonding experience. It means "I trust you with everything". You also get to know things about the person that most people don't know, because sex is an activity that you typically don't share with that many people.

It's on a different level than sharing other experiences, such as interesting conversations or going to a movie or walking hand in hand in the street, and yet it's similar to all of these as well because it's making you grow closer and your bond gets stronger, because you have shared that.

Of course, that's with another consenting sexual. With an ace, I would know that sex wouldn't result in any of that, yet I would crave it due to feeling like I need this feeling, and that's the only way I know to achieve it (the rest also makes you more intimate and loving, but in a different way).

There isn't really a replacement for what sex achieves in a relationship for me, nothing that would have quite the same effect and create quite the same relationship. It would be hard being in a relationship where I have to find alternate ways to reach a result as close to that as possible.

[Charlita]

19 year old sexual here!

I've always found parallels comparing desire for sex/pleasure gained from it, to things like liking particular foods, to be a bit of a dud analogy, in honesty. In much the same way as - although the following analogy is far more problematic and offensive - comparing a woman dressed provocatively (and then being raped) to expensive items left in full view of the street outside (and then being stolen) to be void, because when it comes to the human body and the emotions and sensations that surround it, there's a lot more at play, so to speak. It's a whole different level - and even I as a very logical, analytical being must conclude that it goes much deeper than that.

When I orgasm - be it through sex or through masturbation - the sensation is powerful enough that for those seconds, my mind is entirely empty other than the metaphorical internal sense of EXTREME PLEASURE, EXTREME PLEASURE, EXTREME PLEASURE. It's isn't exactly an itch-scratching pleasure, or a 'peeing after hours of being desperate to go' pleasure, or even an 'eating a mind-blowingly delicious cake' pleasure, but rather all these things in one combined with a fairly short-lived, incredibly intense emotional equivalent of them. The best parallel I can draw is, I'm afraid, a symbolic one, from the book/film Perfume, in which, in one part, the narrator describes a perfume so profoundly beautiful that, when its maker releases a few drops, everybody on Earth believes for a few short seconds that they are in paradise. I cannot speak for every person, but I can speak for many in saying that while one orgasms, it is entirely consuming. For those seconds, at some level, you feel such intense, pulsing physical pleasure (based in the genitals but that spreads like an aura into other parts of the body) that somehow all is right with the world - regardless of whether you are achieving orgasm in a state of absolute contentment and joy, or achieving it whilst you are completely miserable because you've just lost a loved one/your livelihood/have a rotten headache etc. Even regardless of whether you have achieved the orgasm through a sense of love or something you perceive to be 'dirty' or wrong. I'm not a huge believer in all the 'spiritual' stuff, but it certainly comes close, and is definitely a powerful chemical thing.

Sex is enjoyable because it is something where the sensations (even, to a degree, without orgasm) are not only functionally very pleasure on a superficial level, but can run as deeply and emotionally (even in casual sex) as described above, PLUS it is 'all this' with another, whom we generally desire. What makes us become intensely attracted/infatuated/erotically obsessed with/in love with one person we perceive as being attractive when, for example, we are also acquainted with a dozen people we consider objectively to be equally aesthetically pleasing (in other words, at what point finding somebody to be beautiful actually tips into an actual 'attraction') is one of the great mysteries of the world - nobody's worked it out yet. But when you consider that it exists, it is - generally - embroiled with an intense desire to experience sex with that person. And of course, it operates on many levels, from simply liking the idea of it at one end of the scale, to the idea of it making you excited and sensuously stimulated to the point where, when you contemplate it, you get that 'bursting' feeling of sort of delightfully silly happiness beneath your ribs at the other end of the scale.

Without wishing to generalise, in the society we live in it is entirely understandable to me that people would feel embarrassed or intimidated or even just befuddled by the prospect of being so naked and intimate with another human being. But one of the inexplicable functions of sexual arousal and desire is that it does tend to chemically make those apprehensions melt away - everything (within reason - if the person had been using pig excrement as deodorant I think it might be problematic!) becomes a pleasure, scents take on a different quality, sensations, mental perceptions of the body and the situation, everything. Sorry to ramble on, I hope this hasn't been too scatty a comment and I'm happy to try and answer any other questions!

[MadRat]

When you have sex with someone, you are being intimate with them and you're at your most vulnerable. Most obvious reason: you're naked. But also, you're dropping your usual barriers and being yourself, and not playing a role anymore. When I have an orgasm (sorry if it's TMI), I become extremely vulnerable (as in, can't walk for a bit, need to just lie there and recover, things like that). A lot of men are similar, so sharing that moment when you could so easily be taken advantage of or killed without being able to fight back is a very bonding experience. It means "I trust you with everything". You also get to know things about the person that most people don't know, because sex is an activity that you typically don't share with that many people.

In theory it sounds nice to me and I can undertand that for sexual people it is wonderful experience. But for me it is conversely. I´m incapable of this absolute level of intimacy, incapable of trusting someone with everything. I have huge problems with my self-esteem and my looks and I just don´t want to be naked around anyone. Never! For me it is like degrading violation of my privacy. :( Nudity is the worst part of sex for me. If I could keep my clothes on, it would not be so bad, I think.

[Olivier]

Two thoughts, MadRat:

Firstly, if your nudity was eagerly approved of by your partner, that might help with the self-esteem a little.

Secondly, you can keep your clothes on, or nearly all of them anyway, or use blankets or the dark to create privacy. That's pretty common, even amongst sexuals, especially those with body image concerns.

But yeah, even with that you do need to let someone massively into your space, which can be confronting.

[MadRat]

Two thoughts, MadRat:

Firstly, if your nudity was eagerly approved of by your partner, that might help with the self-esteem a little.

Secondly, you can keep your clothes on, or nearly all of them anyway, or use blankets or the dark to create privacy. That's pretty common, even amongst sexuals, especially those with body image concerns.

But yeah, even with that you do need to let someone massively into your space, which can be confronting.

I know I theoretically can keep my clothes on, turn off the light, draw the window-blinds (and stumble on a chair)... but who could be OK with this forever? I would still feel under pressure that in the future this will not be enough, even if there would be no real pressure at the moment. In fact, for most of men this is not enough. They love visual stimuli.

Add to these things mentioned above the fact that I´m OK with very limited number of sexual practices (theoretically OK, I´ve never tried anything in real life) and you will see the cruel truth - I would be the lamest lover in the world you can imagine (please, don´t imagine it :lol: ). And I have nothing very special to offer, like extra good personality or something what could compensate my poor (or rather non-existing) sex-skills.

Anyway, thank you very much for your advices. :)

[Avistew]

In theory it sounds nice to me and I can understand that for sexual people it is wonderful experience. But for me it is conversely. I´m incapable of this absolute level of intimacy, incapable of trusting someone with everything. I have huge problems with my self-esteem and my looks and I just don´t want to be naked around anyone. Never! For me it is like degrading violation of my privacy. :( Nudity is the worst part of sex for me. If I could keep my clothes on, it would not be so bad, I think.

That's fine. Fortunately, it's not something you have to do, not something you need to force. A relationship is also about accepting each other the way they are, so provided you're not aromantic, hopefully you will find someone who can respect and love that part of you. I'm sure they exist (be it only someone who is like you on that aspect, but I'm sure some people who aren't would still be understanding).

I can completely understand why it would feel like a violation of your privacy: I would feel the same with a stranger! It's not hard to extrapolate and imagine feeling that way towards everyone, and I hope you never feel like you have to do it anyways, as it sounds like that would be traumatic.

Olivier is right that there are ways around it, too, but that's if you have incentive to have sex in the first place, which I assume you wouldn't if you're asexual, anyways.

[Sally]

There isn't really a replacement for what sex achieves in a relationship for me, nothing that would have quite the same effect and create quite the same relationship. It would be hard being in a relationship where I have to find alternate ways to reach a result as close to that as possible.

That's an excellent statement of how important sex in a relationship is to a sexual.

[MadRat]

That's fine. Fortunately, it's not something you have to do, not something you need to force. A relationship is also about accepting each other the way they are, so provided you're not aromantic, hopefully you will find someone who can respect and love that part of you. I'm sure they exist (be it only someone who is like you on that aspect, but I'm sure some people who aren't would still be understanding).

I think I´m more aromantic than romantic. Or I have just strange opinion on how should my relationship look like. :D But if I were strong romantic, I would be probably dead for loneliness. What evidently I´m not. :)

I can completely understand why it would feel like a violation of your privacy: I would feel the same with a stranger! It's not hard to extrapolate and imagine feeling that way towards everyone, and I hope you never feel like you have to do it anyways, as it sounds like that would be traumatic.

It´s cool you can understand. I feel like I don´t have to, but should... And average jerks think I have to do it (+ more things I surely can´t do). And not all jerks are easy to be recognized for the first sight.

So thank you for your nice words. :) But I made up better solution for the case of dying for loneliness in the future. I would post on dating sites that I´m ace looking for another ace.

[test account]

Hmm.

[Cunning Stunt]

Forgive me for allowing this to be my first post on AVEN - I have spent most of the day trying to educate myself (for reasons I may or may not talk about in a bit), but this thread struck a chord as I have been trying to articulate why I find sex to be so fundamental to myself, apart from a slightly-banal-sounding 'it feels good', and it seems that this is the type of answer being solicited.

For me, there is a huge difference between masturbation and sex, and my motivations for wanting to engage in both. And I would actually even subdivide sex into good, gratifying thrilling sex and the kind of sex that is transcendent and consumes you. If I may be allowed, I'm going to go on an extended metaphor here. I should note that elements = partner

Masturbation is a bit like going for a splash in a shallow pool of water. You do it because you're overheating and need relief, because you like the feeling of water on your skin, because heck, you're already on the beach and it's right there.

Sex, however, is more like going for a sail. You're working with the wind in such a way that allows you to skim over water and waves as fast or as slow as you like. The thrill of feeling the wind tugging at the main in your hand, using that force to gather speed or release it, that tiny unpredictability of the next gust. Feeling the wind whipping in your hair and the spray of the waves. Nothing makes you feel more alive than balancing right at that edge of speed, cooperating with the elements. It's utterly, utterly exhilarating and makes every nerve of your body thrill in unison.

Then there's a much deeper layer of sex, one where instead of riding on the waves, performing a close physical dance with your partner, everything just fades away. Imaging actually diving down beneath the waves, completely giving yourself over to those forces. You're no longer dancing with the elements, but instead allow yourself to be carried by them, feeling currents cascade over your body, surging and receding, spiraling you further and further into yourself until your entire being is warm and complete and alive.

Ultimately, I feel like these two forms of sex bring me into close communion with both my partner and myself. I feel alive, reaffirmed in myself, sometimes healed from whatever battering I took that day.

I apologize for my torrid prose! It is hard sometimes to find the right way to express sexuality, whether A or otherwise, since, as someone mentioned on another thread, it's something most of us know as innate to ourselves.

[MadRat]

Cunning Stunt, you should write books. ;) It sounds wonderful...but I would get drowned. :lol:

[Larien]

Cunning Stunt, you should write books. ;) It sounds wonderful...but I would get drowned. :lol:

I agree. Cunning Stunt, that was beautiful! Thank you for sharing that with us! :)

And, welcome to AVEN! I hope you enjoy your time here.

[test account]

Hmm.

[DesJ]

Personally I love extended metaphors, so I'm going to use yours, Cunning Stunt. I've "gone sailing" multiple times, because I knew it could be all the things you described, and I'd been fantasizing about it for years, but every time it was like sitting on a calm ocean in a dirty little canoe. Boring, slightly unpleasant, disappointing, could be worse, but ultimately not worth the bother. And every time I thought the next time would be better, and it never was. It got to the point where I was thinking "How many times do I have to do this before I'll be satisfied that I don't like it?"

[test account]

Hmm.