Do you feel asexuality as an orientation should come under the lgbt umbrella?

[michaeld]

LGBTQ isn't a single group and doesn't act as one. Who they accept and represent differs between groups. But didn't we march in the American Pride event last year or something?

Yup, there was an asexual group at SF Pride. Some of us British asexuals marched in the London and Manchester parades; next year we can hopefully do Brighton too. The same also happened in Israel this year, though I can't remember which city (perhaps Tel Aviv?) And, if my understanding is correct, there has been an asexy contingent at Stockholm pride for years.

(Not taking part in the main discussion, as we've been through all this before and as far as I can tell it's inconsequential. We asexuals who are happy in LGBT will continue being so and will continue to promote asexual visibility and education via LGBT as well as other channels. Asexuals who aren't happy to be in LGBT are quite welcome not to get involved. Nothing then to argue about really...)

[PiF]

okay just a reminder that this poll closes seven days away and to give aven's lord and masters a better understanding of the direction of it's members if you can vote please do

seeing the last few inputs i feel i need to timely remind some again

this poll IS NOT about wether individual members can or can't be an asexual and within the lgbt..quite rightly people as individuals should be allowed thier own choices

The poll is about the much talked about alliance between asexuality and the lgbt and should there even be one..as bodies

so please if you havn't voted yet and want to...seven days left..thanks

[WasteOfTime]

Yawn @ this debate.

It would appear that I am in a minority position here as I am involved in both asexual and LGBT forums.

Personally I identify as bi-grey-A.

I think some reality needs to be bought to this discussion:

1. No poll or discussion here will ever have any influence over whether LGBT becomes LGBTA.

2. Considering how divided the LGBT community is - I doubt asexuals will get any widespread acceptance as a group any time soon. (We are also equally divided).

3. While there are a few similarities, there is also massive cultural differences. Common topics on mainstream LGBT forums include frank discussions on gay sex, HIV/AIDS, and casual "dating" - topics that would most undoubtedly trouble many asexuals.

4. Many pan-Q groups do accept asexuals though non-straight asexuals may find more in common.

At the end of the day if an asexual individual wants to go and join an LGBT forum they are more then welcome in the majority of instances.

That is what it comes down to.

If any of you really want to, just go and join LGBT forum(s). Find out what the truth on the ground is.

[shaedofblue]

One major reason we should be included under the LGBTetc umbrella is that being a minority orientation often leads to questioning one's sexual identity, and one purpose of LGBTect groups (especially the school groups Sally doesn't care about) is to provide a safe space and information to help people figure out their identity. LGBTetc groups including and being educated about asexuality would be better able to do this job.

Asexual people who are not comfortable with that association don't have to be part of the LGBTetc community, just like gay people, trans people and members of any other group that feel uncomfortable with the association don't have to be a part of it. But, as a group, we should be considered part of it.

[Sally]

Yawn @ this debate.

It would appear that I am in a minority position here as I am involved in both asexual and LGBT forums.

Personally I identify as bi-grey-A.

I think some reality needs to be bought to this discussion:

1. No poll or discussion here will ever have any influence over whether LGBT becomes LGBTA.

2. Considering how divided the LGBT community is - I doubt asexuals will get any widespread acceptance as a group any time soon. (We are also equally divided).

3. While there are a few similarities, there is also massive cultural differences. Common topics on mainstream LGBT forums include frank discussions on gay sex, HIV/AIDS, and casual "dating" - topics that would most undoubtedly trouble many asexuals.

4. Many pan-Q groups do accept asexuals though non-straight asexuals may find more in common.

At the end of the day if an asexual individual wants to go and join an LGBT forum they are more then welcome in the majority of instances.

That is what it comes down to.

If any of you really want to, just go and join LGBT forum(s). Find out what the truth on the ground is.

Thank you for the reality check. Until the LGBT groups issue an invitation to asexuals as an orientation to be part of their movement (not just one particular university group), it's really an individual choice.

[Angel_eyes]

I see reasons both. I picked yes because I feel a kinship with the community. In the end, I feel connected to them because we all struggle with being "different".

[Sio]

I posted in a similar thread in another forum, so I will be lazy and copypasta my thoughts over here :lol:

I definitely believe that asexuality should be represented as part of the LGBT community. Every LGBT group that I have been a part of has welcomed the asexual part of the community with open arms - I've never personally experienced any rejection of us, so I have no personal reason to believe that is an issue in this debate.

For me, the LGBT community is an umbrella of support and representation for any group that is outside of the "cisgendered heterosexual" label.

It is understandable that there will be asexuals who do not agree. After all, there are members of every part of the queer community - lesbians, gay men, bisexuals, transgenders, pansexuals, genderqueer individuals - that do not feel that the LGBT community represents them appropriately. Everyone has their own individual ideals and ideas of what their representation should be, and no community, LGBT or otherwise, will satisfy everyone's requirements. But there are asexuals, like myself, who do feel we should be represented by the LGBT umbrella and want to be represented by it - I feel that the option of representation should be there for that group (which, I personally believe based on anecdotal evidence, is the majority of asexuals) and those who do not wish to have that representation have no obligation to recognise it.

[shaedofblue]

It is past the point when Pif said the vote would be closed.

The results are about 2/3 for and 1/3 against, out of those who were aware enough and cared enough to vote.

This is despite the biased wording that implied that this would mean an external group speaking for us, instead of us speaking for ourselves within a larger group that works for everyone's benefit.

I think it is fair to say that Pay it forward can no longer argue that the majority agrees with them in regards to this issue.

[Joshua]

3. While there are a few similarities, there is also massive cultural differences. Common topics on mainstream LGBT forums include frank discussions on gay sex, HIV/AIDS, and casual "dating" - topics that would most undoubtedly trouble many asexuals.

If any of you really want to, just go and join LGBT forum(s). Find out what the truth on the ground is.

Good point. And to build on that, out of interest, I'd be interested to know how many asexuals would be willing to participate in LGBT events such as parties and social occasions - like AVEN meets, but with the LGBT community.

I voted no.

The argument is propounded that joining LGBT groups will help awareness, but I am yet to see an example where this has been achieved. I can present examples where we as the asexual community have passed by awareness generating opportunities, so really, we must do more ourselves in generating awareness. I would be concerned if we received a media request which was passed onto an LGBT body to respond to.

We so really need to stand up ourselves, another group won't do it for us.

We've achieved so much media coverage in the UK - two media articles appeared recently. This is credit to the asexuals who have taken part, these and the past media coverage we have gained has not had any LGBT involvement. This demonstrates we have the capability to stand up ourselves.

In my workplace there is an LGBT group (It's called GLOBE, and for the banking industry) and I was discussing asexuality with a member. She questioned whether non-sexuals would fit in, and she did admit that some of their events would be unsuitable for non-sexuals and there is a great deal of discussion on sex, and these events do lead to sex between event participants on some occasions.

Having said that, I accept that some members will want to associate with LGBT groups and that's fine.

[Sio]

3. While there are a few similarities, there is also massive cultural differences. Common topics on mainstream LGBT forums include frank discussions on gay sex, HIV/AIDS, and casual "dating" - topics that would most undoubtedly trouble many asexuals.

If any of you really want to, just go and join LGBT forum(s). Find out what the truth on the ground is.

Good point. And to build on that, out of interest, I'd be interested to know how many asexuals would be willing to participate in LGBT events such as parties and social occasions - like AVEN meets, but with the LGBT community.

I can only speak for myself, but I would happily do so :) The LGBT groups that I am a member of have pretty awesome get-togethers.

I'm unsure what "truth on the ground" others are experiencing that differs so much from the truth I experience within the LGBT community. I have always felt comfortable, welcomed, and safe in the communities I am a member of.

[KAGU143]

I think that PiF's poll is collecting some potentially valuable information, so unless he closes it himself or asks me to do it for him, I don't see any harm in letting it run.

-gb

[Selk]

I think all sexualities, but especially minorties vying for equality, should be supportive of one another, if just to avoid hypocrisy, but I don't think asexuality is really for LBGT. Homosexuality and bisexuality are in common because they're both alternate sexualities, I think maybe including asexuality in that would be misleading, since we are a LACK of sexuality, as opposed to just a different kind. I think being included will connect us too much with them and people would start to think - more than already do! - that we're all closet homosexuals, which would defy the point of getting the visibility!

I hope you get what I mean. That's just me though.

[michaeld]

Thank you for the reality check. Until the LGBT groups issue an invitation to asexuals as an orientation to be part of their movement (not just one particular university group), it's really an individual choice.

It is an individual choice and will continue to be come the day, should it occur, that virtually every single queer club in existence has an A-for-asexual in its acronym. It's also an individual choice for gays, lesbians, bisexuals and trans people.

Still, widespread acceptance does not usually just happen by itself. I'll bet the bisexuals didn't get included by simply waiting until the existing community unanimously extended an invitation on their own accord...

[Sally]

Thank you for the reality check. Until the LGBT groups issue an invitation to asexuals as an orientation to be part of their movement (not just one particular university group), it's really an individual choice.

It is an individual choice and will continue to be come the day, should it occur, that virtually every single queer club in existence has an A-for-asexual in its acronym. It's also an individual choice for gays, lesbians, bisexuals and trans people.

Still, widespread acceptance does not usually just happen by itself. I'll bet the bisexuals didn't get included by simply waiting until the existing community unanimously extended an invitation on their own accord...

Who knows what they did. The point I was making--apparently in vain--is that if you want to join a group, you generally contact that group. You may ask, you may demand, whatever. But I doubt if the LGBT community as a whole has invited the asexual community as a whole (silly though those designations may be, since we're not "wholes") to join the crowd. Thus, asking ourselves if we should come under their umbrella, as though we had an automatic right to do so, doesn't seem appropriate.

So if your particular university LGBT group has welcomed you in as an asexual, that's great. But you can't assume that will happen everywhere.

[michaeld]

Thank you for the reality check. Until the LGBT groups issue an invitation to asexuals as an orientation to be part of their movement (not just one particular university group), it's really an individual choice.

It is an individual choice and will continue to be come the day, should it occur, that virtually every single queer club in existence has an A-for-asexual in its acronym. It's also an individual choice for gays, lesbians, bisexuals and trans people.

Still, widespread acceptance does not usually just happen by itself. I'll bet the bisexuals didn't get included by simply waiting until the existing community unanimously extended an invitation on their own accord...

Who knows what they did. The point I was making--apparently in vain--is that if you want to join a group, you generally contact that group. You may ask, you may demand, whatever. But I doubt if the LGBT community as a whole has invited the asexual community as a whole (silly though those designations may be, since we're not "wholes") to join the crowd. Thus, asking ourselves if we should come under their umbrella, as though we had an automatic right to do so, doesn't seem appropriate.

You'll have to ask the originator of the poll about that. Whatever his reasons, I doubt very much he believes "we had an automatic right to do so".

So if your particular university LGBT group has welcomed you in as an asexual, that's great. But you can't assume that will happen everywhere.

Actually, I'm now affiliated with the Pride groups at two universities and both have been extremely welcoming. Nosos and I are giving a workshop next Wednesday on asexuality, as part of the Awareness week of one of these groups (with the other one hopefully to follow in February or March). I intend to bring up these very points as part of both the presentation and the interactive sections. Let's see what they say.

(And no, acceptance won't happen everywhere. All the more reason to (a) fight for it to happen whereever we can, (b) make the most of it when it does happen.)

[Sio]

In the unofficial LGBT group arena, I am a member of three different LGBT online forums. All of them are entirely welcoming of asexuals. I've never experienced any rejection on the basis of my asexuality there. In a more offical capacity, the Queer Youth Network is a nationwide LGBT organisation here in the UK that represents asexuality equally alongside all their other sections.

AVEN is the first group I've joined where I've encountered the idea that we even have to question the LGBT's community acceptance of us. It's not a question I've ever had to consider in my many years of involvement with LGBT groups and events.

[Sally]

I will say that the members of LGBT groups I've known have not been teens/college age/early 20s, except for some in ActUp years ago. Perhaps older people find it more difficult to envision anyone not definitely sexual being part of their world. I've outed myself to several lesbian friends and one gay friend, and they've not been able to understand anyone not feeling sexual (and they're all pretty bright, accepting people). It just doesn't make sense to them. They take part in community LGBT groups, not university groups.

[JoD]

it seems that the acceptance of both group vs the representation is a bit muddied. i accept and may be accepted by some in the lgbt group but for the most part i do not think that they can truly represent what asexuality is. however an alliance with sexual minorities make since we may has similar experiences thought most asexuals may not experience the hostility that the lgbt group have we do have many asexuals that have non-hetero attractions. as others have indicated unless the lgbt invite asexuals then it is pointless. however it in not pointless to support others that we as individuals feel a kinship with.

[trany101]

I think it should because it is not a "typical" sexuality such as being heterosexual. That is the only reason there would be a connection besides if an indiviudal was say a homoromantic asexual. The thing with LGBT as a label is that transgender is not a sexuality but it is still included with a sexuality group which would suggest that the label is not entirely about being sexual in a non-straight way. It also means sexual and gender minorities. Asexuality could be represented by sexuals in a similar way, but I feel there will be many things that are not completely understood or represented accurately if that were done. It may not make sense, but it could work.

[Radioactive Goat]

Since it's under the minority like the others, why not?

[5_♦♣]

Please stop resurrecting old threads!

[Guest member25959]

2010, good year.

[Boo42069yomomma]

I think it should yes. Power in numbers, you know!

[ithaca]

Since this is a very old thread, it's being locked as part of a plan to clean up Census and keep the information in threads up-to-date. If you're interested in reading or taking part in the discussion, here it is, where you'll find a link to the original discussion as well.

Please, feel encouraged to create a new Census thread for this topic, and feel free to PM me with any questions or concerns you may have!

-ithaca, Admin