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Nezumi

Could a sexual person tell me why the lack of sex affects them?

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Samael

Lucinda, I thought as much. In short, a problem arises when people look validation from external sources. And really, this I can understand, because it's the easy way: have someone else define what is worthwhile and what is not, and the only thing left for you is to try to live up to those expections. Unfortunaly, this will be the classical setup for personal failure.

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The Werewolf

Guys i dont mean to be rude but this is topic was not made for persecuting people or to tell people that it may be because of self esteem issues the OP wanted to know what sexuals were feeling and to it may just be me i am not sure but it seemed as if you were more trying to debase an argument of opinion i dont believe you can say why someone feels a certain way it was a broad generalization at that and it is not just people with self esteem issues many people feel this way. You treat it as if it is a problem it is not a problem if you do see it as a problem then you must also take the opposite into consideration maybe it is a problem with the people who do not feel way the OPs husband dose. Pleze just open up your views and try and see it from the other side.

The reason i posted was to say that and that good points all threw here and that this post has helped me enplane to an asexual friend of mine how sexuals feel to some degree so i want to thank the OP and all the sexuals who graced this bored with your answers and also all the asexuals how were willing to listen thank you This is a great community and im glad to be a part of it. Please tell me if you feel i am wrong if you would like.

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under_the_radar

There are a great many aspects to sexual people's desires I can't even begin to comprehend. One of the biggest bewilderments for me is why some sexual people report feelings of worthlessness when their asexual partner doesn't desire them sexually. They somehow feel hurt if another person doesn't want to have sex with them? Doesn't that equate to self-esteem problems or something? (That is, in order to feel hurt by someone you'd have to have a darn low self-esteem)

I think it's that, in that situation, they feel emotionally and sexually attracted to the other person, and expect all of that to be reciprocated. It's a misunderstanding, and probably partly believing asexuals don't exist, too. If their partner doesn't find them sexually attractive, they feel like there is something horribly wrong with them, i think; that if they were doing everything right, the other person should find them sexually appealing as well.

I think part of it may be society, as well; people are indoctrinated into thinking everyone is sexual, that sex is "the best part of life" (I heard that phrase in a commercial last night for an erectile-dysfunction drug, it may be true for some,but not all), and that there is basically nothing more important than being seen as sexually desirable. Some people base their entire self-worth on that. If someone you desire sexually doesn't reciprocate, it could be a huge blow to the self-esteem.

This too goes way over my head and life long indoctrination is what I blame more so than human nature, is that wrong of me?

I'm a very romantically and aesthetically driven asexual so if these responses and feelings of worthlessness are brought on naturally I am seriously confused as to the values system of sexuals. I don't even understand how masturbation, porn, one night stands, and sex in a relationship are different in their eyes because I think the end result/goal is pretty much the same thing. The only goal I see there is "getting off" and simply don't understand anything more than "everyone else is doing it" as a secondary motive. To me as well it seems childish, can a sexual please explain this to me?

Werewolf: I understand you may feel something derailed, but I can tell you I have heard sexual people question self esteem's role in sexuality especially in terms of peer pressure and honest motives. To say that it cannot be a component to be taken into consideration I personally would consider unfair, the question is one of my own questions and I do not mean it offensively. There is a point where I thought many would out-grow the social implications on self, but at nearly 30 years old I'm confused why so few sexuals have gotten past the peer/societal opinion link to their own individual sexual lives and views.

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Beenthere

"I'm a very romantically and aesthetically driven asexual so if these responses and feelings of worthlessness are brought on naturally I am seriously confused as to the values system of sexuals. I don't even understand how masturbation, porn, one night stands, and sex in a relationship are different in their eyes because I think the end result/goal is pretty much the same thing. The only goal I see there is "getting off" and simply don't understand anything more than "everyone else is doing it" as a secondary motive. To me as well it seems childish, can a sexual please explain this to me?"

Being sexual isn't a value system. Masturbation, porn, one night stands and sex in a relationship differ in that sex in a relationship is not only about sex. It's that completely one of a kind space in which the emotional and physical merge. If a person is sexual. Is there a limit to how long I can go without sex before resorting to some kind of outlet? Yes. Is that the same thing as sex with someone I love? No.

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under_the_radar
If a person is sexual. Is there a limit to how long I can go without sex before resorting to some kind of outlet? Yes. Is that the same thing as sex with someone I love? No.

I know I'm probably asking the world's hardest question, but I do not understand this difference between a physical "compulsion" and linking a physical and emotional factor that can exist on their own. I'm sorry that I do not understand, but it is over my head.

I didn't say sexual is a value system, but if lack of one act (and undesired responses on that subject) causes someone to feel worthless even if I were sexual I would be concerned about feeling worthless based on one subject. That is like feeling worthless over not being dressed to someone's liking or someone didn't like something I cooked when I imagine it, is it different?

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Beenthere
If a person is sexual. Is there a limit to how long I can go without sex before resorting to some kind of outlet? Yes. Is that the same thing as sex with someone I love? No.

I know I'm probably asking the world's hardest question, but I do not understand this difference between a physical "compulsion" and linking a physical and emotional factor that can exist on their own. I'm sorry that I do not understand, but it is over my head.

Say you like to talk. (Maybe you do, maybe you don't, but hypothetically.) If you are someone who likes to talk, you might start a conversation at the bus stop, just for fun. But you might feel differently about talking to someone you love.

"I didn't say sexual is a value system, but if lack of one act (and undesired responses on that subject) causes someone to feel worthless even if I were sexual I would be concerned about feeling worthless based on one subject. That is like feeling worthless over not being dressed to someone's liking or someone didn't like something I cooked when I imagine it, is it different?"

A little different than not being dressed the right way or someone not liking cooking, because you can always wear something else or cook something else. To love and not be loved back sucks for anyone. If, as is the case for sexuals, the line between physical and emotional expression of feeling doesn't really exist, you are in a bind if the one you love rejects you physically - all the worse if they say that they do love you emotionally. You can't replace the sexual with something else. For us it flows right out of the emotional side of things. If we feel the love, ("that" kind of love, obviously, which is different from love of relatives) we feel the desire. They aren't two things.

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mylittlehazmat

Which leads me to the question: how do these starved sexuals who need to scratch this itch (or eat this three-course dinner) ... how do they survive when /not/ in a relationship? The amount of single sexuals in the world does not equal those who are depressed, angry and frustrated. How do they deal while alone if they don't deal very well when in a relationship?

Simple answer? Because it's worse in a relationship. It's the emotional part missing that's the biggest problem, and it's not an issue when you're not in love. No-one desires emotional intimacy with their hand, or a one night stand, which is why those things are fine when they're all you have, but if you actually have someone you love, you want the emotional part, too. Which makes the wanting of the physical so much more painful, as it ties up with emotion.

P.

I suppose that is why I don't understand then: I don't view sex as an act of love. Sorry for my ignorance.

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under_the_radar

Beenthere:

Hmmm, I'm kind of understanding but am lost on the link of sex and infidelity. If someone has to have sex in the end it's like saying infidelity is okay and nothing can be done about it. It sounds like normal is the equivalent of a drug addict, but drugs are illegal sadly even though they effect the same chemicals and receptors sex is supposed to.

If you can have sex with yourself, an image, or a stranger, I just can't fully grasp how that it could be "sacred" or "reserved for a loved one" or even "an expression of love" if it is an ingrained requirement to have an outlet for regardless. How is any line drawn in terms of making excuses and involuntary actions? I hate to accidentally sound aggressive, but in my book love and emotions go both ways. While I do like to talk to people a ton, I don't go talking to those I shouldn't or about things I shouldn't out of respect, is sex exempt to this rule of thumb?

It's really important to me to understand these things for the sake of respecting and understanding my husband, but I cannot justify cheating or any other hurtful act because of being a sexual. I think asexual or sexual we all have self control, empathy, and discretion if we choose to take things into consideration and choose balance. If we were talking about drugs or alcohol this requirement is considered addiction and there are sex rehabs with people out of control and ruining their lives addicted to what release does to their brain chemicals, I could be wrong here but is there a line between natural, excuse making, and a clinical problem in the balance?

I believe drugs can be used responsibly, used recklessly, and potentially addictive (bad example, but with triggering neurological responses my best example), I also believe that most beneficial (say coping or enjoyable recreation for example) senses can be felt within while adverse reactions are normally in connection with others. This is how sex has been understood by myself in cause and effect, balance and reasonable explanations/expectations are what I wish to gain and believe they are possible. Do sexuals feel there are multiple areas of reason similar to this example of use and abuse and it's effect on others? It sounds like I may be reading a sense of entitlement that isn't there, but I like to make sure instead of make assumptions.

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Beenthere

Beenthere:

Hmmm, I'm kind of understanding but am lost on the link of sex and infidelity. If someone has to have sex in the end it's like saying infidelity is okay and nothing can be done about it. It sounds like normal is the equivalent of a drug addict, but drugs are illegal sadly even though the effect the same chemicals and receptors sex is supposed to.

If you can have sex with yourself, an image, or a stranger, I just can't fully grasp how that it could be "sacred" or "reserved for a loved one" or even "an expression of love" if it is an ingrained requirement to have an outlet for regardless. How is any line drawn in terms of making excuses and involuntary actions? I hate to accidentally sound aggressive, but in my book love and emotions go both ways. While I do like to talk to people a ton, I don't go talking to those I shouldn't or about things I shouldn't out of respect, is sex exempt to this rule of thumb?

It's really important to me to understand these things for the sake of respecting and understanding my husband, but I cannot justify cheating or any other hurtful act because of being a sexual. I think asexual or sexual we all have self control, empathy, and discretion if we choose to take things into consideration and choose balance. If we were talking about drugs or alcohol this requirement is considered addiction and there are sex rehabs with people out of control and ruining their lives addicted to what release does to their brain chemicals, I could be wrong here but is there a line between natural, excuse making, and a clinical problem in the balance?

I believe drugs can be used responsibly, used recklessly, and potentially addictive (bad example, but with triggering neurological responses my best example), I also believe that most beneficial (say coping or enjoyable recreation for example) senses can be felt within while adverse reactions are normally in connection with others. This is how sex has been understood by myself in cause and effect, balance and reasonable explanations/expectations are what I wish to gain and believe they are possible. Do sexuals feel there are multiple areas of reason similar to this example of use and abuse and it's effect on others? It sounds like I may be reading a sense of entitlement that isn't there, but I like to make sure instead of make assumptions.

Well this is just my subjective take, but the problem with infidelity isn't the sex, it's the dishonesty. Some people have open marriages and in so doing make the very concept of infidelity impossible. I'm not personally on that bandwagon, being on the old side and genuinely content with who I'm with, but frankly, I think it's a good idea for a lot of people. Does it diminish the sex they have with each other? Ask them. I'd guess if it does, the relationship wasn't what they thought it was in the first place and they break up and it's for the best.

I don't believe monogamy is the normal condition of most people, especially when they're young. I don't think that's a function of being out of control, I think that's just the way most people are, and "serial monogamy" is the way people put a socially acceptable face on that fact. I don't think that makes most people sex addicts. I know a lot of relationship addicts, (pre-teens and teens, many of whom aren't even sexually active yet being a prime example) I haven't ever personally met a sex addict. More people are preoccupied with the idea of pairing off socially and being seen as part of a "couple" than with the act of sex itself, no matter how sexual we sexuals may get.

Sex only gets out of hand when people aren't realistic with themselves about who they are. The guy who wants to be viewed as the upstanding family man and got married because he thought he should and wakes up to find he isn't even friends with his wife. The woman who is desperate to get that ring and that mini-van and doesn't care how she gets them. THOSE are the cheaters, not the folks who are honest with themselves and their partners. Why do they cheat? Not for the sex, but because their lives are emotionally hollow. That's not the fault of sex. Note that people get as upset about "emotional affairs" as they do about sexual ones.

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Pamcakes

Aaaand we're back to the Sexual people having to defend that there's nothing wrong with us, or right with Asexuals - we're just wired to respond to certain stimuli differently.

Whenever it happens the other way around, there's a huge public outcry (on this site, at least).

Can't we just accord each other the respect of accepting and validating each others' life experience, however different? The constant explanation gets dreadfully wearing, is all. It's the same for Sexuals as for Aces, in that at least; no-one likes having to explain and defend themselves over and over and over.

P.

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Samael

Aaaand we're back to the Sexual people having to defend that there's nothing wrong with us, or right with Asexuals - we're just wired to respond to certain stimuli differently.

Whenever it happens the other way around, there's a huge public outcry (on this site, at least).

Can't we just accord each other the respect of accepting and validating each others' life experience, however different? The constant explanation gets dreadfully wearing, is all. It's the same for Sexuals as for Aces, in that at least; no-one likes having to explain and defend themselves over and over and over.

P.

It seems you've discussed this before then :D Still, I don't think anyone is trying to invalidate anyone's life experiences, I don't at least. Anyway, I've tried to bring up my own view and compare it to that of others', all the while trying to analyze why they differ. Realizing it's practically impossible to truly understand a point of view that is alien to myself, I still try to understand, even though I experience spells of frustration at times too. Also, I accept anyone's views and experiences, the difference here is that on top of accepting them, I'd someday like to understand them as well.

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under_the_radar

I'm just trying to figure out what the truth is, even though the chances I will fully understand them with the correct context is very slim. I bringing up standards made by sexuals so I'm trying to figure out a rule book I never made compared to physiological realities I will never feel.

I hope I didn't say anything wrong!!! :D

Beenthere: I agree with the dishonesty and deception being the worst of cheating, I don't agree that everyone should be monogamous (I'm older and know I'm not meant to be poly or any other situation my personality, feelings, and beliefs cannot handle), but if they choose to and make a commitment I still believe going outside of a relationship or marriage even if they say they will to their partner's face is selfish, dangerous, and disrespectful without a mutual agreement.

To say the sex or whatever isn't the worst of it and emotional affairs are just as bad, all forms of infidelity is bad including adultery, I just don't think that anyone should have a "free pass" when they made a commitment and gave their word to another person without serious repercussions. As a compromising asexual, if it happened to me I would be extra livid over the situation whether it's a person, stripper, or porn, it makes compromise a lose-lose for me and a win-win for the other guy. That's just my opinion. I'm trying to figure out if I'm too unreasonable taking things personally in my own relationship, but it seems that I don't know where this clear line is in a sexual person's mind where they have gone too far and acted selfishly and hurtfully to another human being sexual or asexual. :huh:

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Beenthere

"I just don't think that anyone should have a "free pass" when they made a commitment and gave their word to another person without serious repercussions."

Me neither. Being honest and trustworthy is not a sexual/asexual question.

And the line on those things is what they are. If anyone lies to someone, they lied to them. If I didn't have one person top whom I had a commitment, then anyone I did spend time with would know that. I would never tell someone I was exclusive with them when I wasn't.

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The Werewolf

Ok guys i did right up a reply and turns out it was way to long so if you have any questions or such i will try and answer and the form did sidetracked it is ok i just know and care for the OP that is why i want to help them with the understanding if you want me to comment on another topic i will just leave a link I actually think and would like what were talking about be made into a new topic because we have hit a really interesting subject i would like to go into further and hear more about and sorry i did not reply to the earlier post like i said got way to long and it was because i did not stay on top of the forum but yes i will try and keep up this time sorry guys

PS anyone seen OP?

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NamTar

Oh, I see your point. Because people assume everyone is just like they are, they take the partner's refusal to have sex with them as a personal offence against them. Most interesting... It explains why it would have some effect on their self-esteem. In the end, all of this seems to revolve around missunderstanding though.

Yet, you said if the sexual is doing "everything right, the other person should find them sexually appealing as well". Even after "doing everything right" there is no mutual sexual attraction, the sexual person would feel there's something horribly wrong with them. Hmm, personally I would completely understand if there were feelings of disappointment, but I can't understand if there is not only that, but horrendous feelings of personal incompetence as well. That, in my opinion, speaks of child-like insecurity and low self-esteem.

Am I correct or maybe totally wrong?

Well, it seems that way to me, what I said, that's all. I can't speak from experience because I don't understand the whole attraction thing. ^_^

I know some people, friends I've known forever, who seem to base their entire life on this. I saw something unrelated on TV today about how everyone wants to feel "valuable" in some way, and i think that sort of relates. Some may feel valuable because of personal or professional achievements, and some because others find them attractive.

Rambling follows: I consider myself at least average looking, but was never especially interested in having a boyfriend, yet, in high school, any time my so-called best friend was mad at me, she tried to insult me by saying "You're ugly/you will never find a boyfriend/etc)." I think this is because her entire self-esteem was based on how many guys she could get to sleep with her, but the insults confused me, because I didn't actually give a damn about any of that. Again, I think she assumed my wants in life were exactly the same as hers. I interpret this particular instance as being rather sad and showing a lack of self-esteem, though, yeah.

As for taking personal offense, I think many people assume everyone thinks the same, and not just sexually. I know I've been variously accused of being a lesbian and a racist for not being sexually interested in certain guys who were interested in me, and no amount of explaining seemed to help.

And exactly how much damage do you feel comfortable imposing on another because you yourself are spiraling downward? How many people have admitted insisting that their partner go to the doctor to get drugs to supposedly make them want sex? And does any drug actually create desire for partnered sex out of the blue? They want their partner to take drugs prescribed for a physical condition they don't even have without regard to the possible negative side effects. And this is all in the name of "love"?

That's an interesting thought, too, the drugs. As I understand it, the male drugs work by helping with blood flow to help with arousal, so the desire has to be there already, at least in part. Or the desire for the desire, people have been using weird stuff as aphrodisiacs forever. No idea how the female ones work or if it's different, but i do wonder how many people with asexual partners might be out there, thinking a little blue pill will "fix" their partner's lack of desire for sex.

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Hi =)

Ok, a few things from a sexual's perspective:

1) Feelings of worthlessness, etc. related to a significant other's lack of interest in sex with them is not necessarily related to socialization or general low self-esteem issues. For a sexual in a relationship, as one person pointed out, the emotional and physical aspects are pretty much the same thing, so a rejection of interest in the physical (sex) can feel like a rejection of the whole. And someone who says they love you, but rejects a core part of you can be very painful. For example, if you like to spend time with people you care about and there is someone you love very strongly and want to spend a lot of time with and they say they love you, too, but never want to spend any time with you, wouldn't that hurt a bit and make you feel a little small?

2) Infidelity is going behind the back of another to whom one has promised something. Whether emotional or physical cheating, it is a matter of lack of respect for one's partner, not lack of self-control. If two people are in a committed relationship and have promised to be true to one another and monogamous, it is not acceptable for either party to go behind the others back for anything. However, if they talk and agree that one party cannot meet certain needs (notice, needs, not desires) of the other and they would be open to the unfulfilled party getting that need met in other ways, then having sex with someone outside the relationship may not be cheating, as long as it was part of a pre-agreed arrangement. And, therefore, not infidelity.

Having a need and needing to fulfill it does not make someone a bad person or selfish. Sneaking around and breaking promises does. Being a sexual in a relationship with an asexual does not entitle the sexual to cheat, but the asexual should understand that the sexual has a legitimate natural need that must be addressed. How they chose to work it out is up to them.

3) A few of these posts feel like people complaining that their identity is being disregarded and called fake while they do the same thing to the other side. This concept that a sexual needing their needs met makes them selfishness strikes me as dangerous for a group that is supposed to be about acknowledging and accepting differences in sexuality (including a lack-thereof). For instance, someone with a slow metabolism that doesn't need to eat much saying that someone with a high metabolism that needs to eat a lot more to maintain the same function is selfish for wanting to indulge in so much more food is not a good argument. People are different and have different levels of need. Some people even have needs that others don't. Just because you don't share the need or understand it does not give you the right to call someone who does have it selfish or wrong.

And assuming that the fact you give any ground at all should be sufficient can be just as ignorant. Yes, it helps, but if they need more than you are compromising, they are still starving. If someone needs 1500 calories a day to comfortably survive and they get one saltine cracker a day, yes they are getting something, but no one can reasonably claim their need is being met.

4) Sex as an act of love: Sex is a very emotional activity. Some individuals will have sex with anyone and everyone, but even then there is some kind of emotion involved, however isolated it may be. And I think most sexuals will agree that while they have a strong urge/drive for sex and it must be released somehow (even just masturbation) every so often, the absolute best and most fulfilling is when you share it with your partner and it is an extension of yourself, the two of you bringing joy and pleasure to each other in the most intimate and intense way, becoming almost one physical being, as you emotionally bond into one as well. It makes you feel closer together in every way, like a stronger couple, your love demonstrated and reinforced. Without it, there is a hollowness/emptiness that is painful and depressing. This is even stronger in a relationship because you have an object of love and affection, someone you want to share that most basic part of yourself with, and they say they share that love for you, but don't want to have any part of that sharing. When not in a relationship, it's not as close.

For example, if you're hungry but there's no food around, you're still hungry, but you don't expect anything for a while, so you make yourself manage it. On the other hand, if you're hungry and in a room with a full buffet but you can't have any of it you feel that hunger much more sharply and painfully.

5) Normal sexual drive (for a sexual) vs. sexual addiction. This is like the difference between needing to eat and eating to meet that need as opposed to having an eating disorder in which you are obsessed with food and over eat. Everyone has different levels of actual need, so what constitutes excess for one person may be another's normal level of survival. The difference is when the act (eating/having sex/etc.) is being used to fill some other purpose (to punish one's self, fill an emotional void, etc.) as opposed to for it's own sake. Someone eating what they need not to starve to death doesn't make them obsessed/addicted/unhealthy, however much they may need to eat, but eating out of boredom, depression, etc. does. In the same way, having sex to meet that natural drive is not unhealthy or sex addiction, but when sex is used to fill a void, to hurt one's self or someone else, so on, then it crosses the line.

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under_the_radar

Thank you Hi=) your explanations have helped a lot with figuring out some balances from the sexual perspective and my understanding is a bit better too.

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The Werewolf

Wow hi=) Good way to put it it is hard to explain things like that and i am glad you put it so eloquently i am not the best writer but that is a vary true statement and i agree with it thank you for the post.

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