AVEN Vegetarians and Vegans

[EGAD!]

So aside from wondering how many people here consider themselves Vegetarian and Vegan I'm a little curious about what provoked you to take the plunge.

I am not a strict vegetarian, but make an effort to limit the type and amount of meat I put in my mouth.

For my part I came to this decision because it sounded like I would be better off from a health standpoint (though there are of course plenty of other reasons).

From my point of view I have a hard time grasping what or if there are additional benefits to going vegan.

I have heard the argument that people believe that by not buying and eating any food made from animal products they are not supporting the unethical treatment of animals. At this point I get the thought bubble that merely withholding money that would be spent on food products derrived from animals does nothing to improve their living conditions--unless people make a conscience choice to buy animal products from farmers, ranchers, fishermen, etc who are more ethical.

But this is just my opinion.

[asexual cake]

I'm a(n ovo-lacto) vegetarian, and I'm considering going whole-hog (heh) and forswearing all animal by-products at some point, probably when I'm in my mid-twenties. I switched to vegetarianism on the first day of 2006, halfway through my seventh grade year.

I would like to say that I did it out of ethical concerns, either for the well-being of animals or unease about how the meat industry affects the environment, but I did not. I have remained a vegetarian in part because of both of these issues (though mostly because, for whatever reason, I enjoy it), but I originally made the switch because my then-favourite fictional character was one, and I wished to conform more to the archetype he represented. I'm not proud of myself, but there it is.

[EarthWarrior]

I'm a vegetarian, and mostly vegan (I don't consume milk and eggs) strangely, this way of eating has just been natural to me my whole life. I was spitting meat out my mouth from the moment I was old enough to eat solids, my Mum would hide bits of chicken in my mash potato (when I was about three) and I would find it!

I told my parents when I was five that I would not eat meat, and being the stubborn so and so that I am, they gave in and accepted it.

I also eat alot of raw food (fruits and veggies)

But like so many other AVENites, I can't resist a good ol' slice of

:D

[gnowee]

I am a pescetarian, and I made the decision to forgo red meat and poultry for both health reasons and general taste. I never liked the taste of beef or pork and was a picky eater as a child. Poultry I can live without. Fish have numerous health benefits and I like the taste and texture.

It's probably my judgmental side, but I find it difficult to take seriously vegans who claim to be saving the animals by not eating any animal products. Not that I'm condoning theft, but it seems going to the farm "factories" and stealing the livestock would be saving more animals than a minority of the population simply not eating them. I agree that it would take a majority of the people boycotting large-scale farm operations in favor of small local farms to improve animal living conditions.

[eatik]

I am a vegetarian. I am a debilitatingly picky eater, and I couldn't remember ever eating an obvious meat dish. When I got older I decided to call myself vegetarian for personal ethical opinions. The only thing I had to give up was a kind of yogurt with gelatin in it. My sister is also vegetarian.

[Grenada]

I am a pescetarian, and I made the decision to forgo red meat and poultry for both health reasons and general taste. I never liked the taste of beef or pork and was a picky eater as a child. Poultry I can live without. Fish have numerous health benefits and I like the taste and texture.

It's probably my judgmental side, but I find it difficult to take seriously vegans who claim to be saving the animals by not eating any animal products. Not that I'm condoning theft, but it seems going to the farm "factories" and stealing the livestock would be saving more animals than a minority of the population simply not eating them. I agree that it would take a majority of the people boycotting large-scale farm operations in favor of small local farms to improve animal living conditions.

I agree. I still eat seafood as well. I crave sushi every once in a while. ^_^

[Pandoren]

I went vegetarian at 11 and like a lot of things my memory is rather hazy from that time. I remember the last thing I ate was KFC chicken and that was when I made the realisation that I was eating a dead body. I'm sure there was more to it than that. I went vegan at 18, having by now fully realised about farming and my beliefs regarding animals and their treatment etc.

gnowee- firstly, it is about supply and demand. The idea is that the fewer people who eat meat, the less meat is needed, the fewer animals are bred to die. Ethically, we don't want to disagree with the process and then participate in it anyway, that's hypocracy. As well as that, not everyone will raid a farm- not all of us know how, have the guts to, or think it is morally right to steal.

There doesn't necessarily need to be a majority as long as the minority is loud enough. Stealing is going to leave people with animals they don't necessarily know what to do with, is going to give them a bad reputation, is going to damage their cause in the public eye, is going to cause farmers to carry on breeding at the same rate or even overcompensate in order to make up losses from stealing. Long term politics will work better than long term stealing.

[anniebug]

I have been a vegetarian since I was eleven years old, which for me is nine almost ten years. Thinking about that is a holy shit kind of moment for me, but yea.

I saw it mentioned that simply not eating meat doesn't seem like it would make much of an impact, I am not a big supporter of PETA and I can't say I exactly trust their calculation of each vegetarian saving about 100 animals per year but I will politely argue a difference is indeed made. If I did eat meat, it would be consumed at least two times a day (I assume, I've never really been big on meat pre-vegetarianism) that adds up... yes? By not eating that amount, that amount is't being bought, and the less market for meat the less meat readied for the market. My wording probably makes little sense, but nonetheless I'm saving lives. It's not like because I am a vegetarian that others eat more meat to make up for me not eating it. That would be like me eating more broccoli because my friend despises anything green. Personally, one less is good enough for me. I could be the only vegetarian in the entire world and in my entire years of living I could save but one animal... and it would be worth it to me. Sure I'd love to be able to run around stealing animals... but simply not eating meat is a far more plausible way of doing what I can to make my difference (and donating of course). I also grew up in a small mountain faring town so I know where my dairy products come from and I know how they are treated, I refuse to buy from anything but local farms. These are animals I can go see anytime I wish and pet and know for one hundred percent certain that (though they are still sadly domesticated) they are treated properly.

I understand humans are designed to consume meat, that I have to go out of my way to make sure I lead a healthy life due to my lack of meat consumption (protein). With this understanding comes the need to point out that I would be entirely okay with the consumption of meat if the domestication of animals did not exist. Since of course a time machine can not be created and I can not go back and release all of the originally farmed animals I will say that the factory farming industry in particular, is the reason I am not okay with the consumption of meat. (We raise animals like products, we create them just to destroy them, it's rather sick.) I will also point out being the overly compassionate soul that I am, even if this was so... there was no factory farming, there was no farming at all, and these animals were alloted their natural and wild state and were merely hunted the way the circle of life originally intended, I still would not consume them. For a personal belief in not taking the life of another creature for my own personal gain. Plus, the thought of eating flesh just sickens me.

Besides my babbling (which probably made little to no sense to anyone but myself), I really don't give a crapola if you eat meat or not. My opinion is my own, and everyone is alloted their own in return. I will not tell you to not eat meat, this is merely my own choice. I am not a preachy person, sure if you ask me my opinion I will give it but otherwise? I tend to keep my trap shut on the matter.

/rambling

[oneofthesun]

Many of the vegans here are making the mistake of assuming meat farming is subject to market forces. It is not. When farmers can't sell all their meat, they just ask the government for extra money and for the most part, they get it. The government has to subsidize farming because there are so many aspects of it are largely out of human control (the weather, animal diseases etc). If farmers were left to deal with those problems on their own, they would go out of business too easily. As long as there are government subsidies, not eating meat doesn't necessarily save animals.

Or rather, it doesn't prevent more farm animals from being born, because once they are born it's already too late - They will die by slaughter whether they're eaten by humans or not. Slaughter is the cheapest way to deal with an animal that's no longer useful, and that includes old dairy cows and egg chickens.

[anniebug]

Even with that being true (which really it's hard to 100% prove either way weather or not any animals are actually saved or not unless you are in the business yourself) I would still not be personally funding the industry or would be putting less funding into it, anyways. So it still has an impact, indirectly. Hell even if it didn't have the slightest impact whatsoever I would give a flying fuck. I still would not eat meat. It would still go against my own personal morals. Eating flesh is still disgusting. By not being a hunter or fisher (which is an aspect to be considered in being a vegetarian) I save lives because again it's not like my father goes out and shoots twice as many deer simply because I choose not to. My grandfather doesn't catch any more fish because I choose not to. If I did either, more lives would be taken. Since I don't, every fish I would catch otherwise is one more fish living it's life freely in it's natural waters. Since I don't every deer I would otherwise shoot is one more deer living it's life freely in it's natural habitat. The same goes for not eating rabbits or frogs or other silly things of that nature. If I did eat meat, and those creatures in particular, more lives would be lost.

I also think considering that Veggies & Vegans aren't exactly scarce these days that to fit the supply demand decrease that has occurred over the years that some kind of drop in production has bee made. Wouldn't factory farms want to aim for a number that is more realistic, and that wouldn't require them to ask the government for the extra money? I am sure, it is swayed inevitably in some manner. That, they don't produce the exact same amount of meat ever single year, no matter what.

[Jockey]

I don't know why I'm a vegan. I just am.

[< retired >]

Human beings are excellent rationalizers, which means they will almost always devise what they believe are good arguments to justify whatever they have a pre-existing inclination to do. So, for example, if you enjoy consuming animal-derived products but feel a tad defensive when confronted with the vegan meme complex, all you have to do is come up with some argument that permits you to go on doing what you already enjoy doing. Trust me - you will succeed in this task! :)

The problem is that it is likely that you haven't been provided with the intellectual tools necessary to properly evaluate the quality of your own arguments (especially if you're just a kid, as are most AVENites). So, you may be wallowing in the mud, intellectually speaking, without being consciously aware of it. Furthermore, if everyone you ever associate with is also wallowing in the same mud, then you may never have a reason to get out of it.

Moving from the abstract to the particular, there are numerous sources of info on veg*nism and animal rights. The overall summary is that slow and study progress is being made regarding the living conditions of farm animals, despite the fact that the majority of the human population could hardly care less. ;)

[Amedot]

There are a few veg*n threads, and every single one is the same...

[oneofthesun]

I also think considering that Veggies & Vegans aren't exactly scarce these days that to fit the supply demand decrease that has occurred over the years that some kind of drop in production has bee made.

Nope. The last time this topic came up I posted some stats. I don't have time to look for them again but from what I can recall, beef production was down for the first time in 2009 but chicken production was up. Beef exports were also up. So Americans are eating considerably less beef but that doesn't mean there are fewer cattle being raised for meat.

I have nothing against trying to make life better for domestic animals, but boycotting meat is not an effective way to do it. (Thanks to globalization, a boycott would have to be near-global to be effective). If you want to help animals it's the government subsidies you need to deal with. That would take lobbying, not just a boycott.

[Pandoren]

But the population numbers are also rising. Did your statistics focus on number of animals slaughtered per year, or per head? The latter would show that the numbers would be higher if vegetarians and vegans didn't exist.

[asexual]

I am vegetrian. Have been for about 10years. I don't like the taste of meat but also the reason is for animal rights.

[~Salem~]

I'm a vegetarian and have been for the last 7 to 8 years, give or take. I don't eat any meat (or wear leather and the such I might add). I'm wanting to become vegan someday. I stopped eating meat for spiritual reasons. I believe that animals are our Brothers and Sisters, so eating a piece of meat would be like eating one of my siblings (no thank you!). I also got to thinking about it a lot. I figured there were more food choices out there that didn't require an animal's death, so I decided to eat that instead. I'm now too disguisted by the thought of myself eating a piece of meat that I would never be able to

[Professor T. Pollution]

It's probably my judgmental side, but I find it difficult to take seriously vegans who claim to be saving the animals by not eating any animal products. Not that I'm condoning theft, but it seems going to the farm "factories" and stealing the livestock would be saving more animals than a minority of the population simply not eating them. I agree that it would take a majority of the people boycotting large-scale farm operations in favor of small local farms to improve animal living conditions.

The thing is...you're quite clearly not taking the whole picture into account. Just think about the vast and rising amount of 'cage free' and/or 'free range' chickens, turkeys, the increasing supply of alternative food supplies (i.e. vegan/vegetarian options in restaurants and schools and stores), et cetera.

If vegans and vegetarians make no difference, explain that away. Please. I'd like to see you try. It's a pretty indisputable fact that that type of product is on the rise. Of course meat is still produced; it will be for as long as it's profitable to do so. But you seem to be very limited in your thinking — in the long term we are forcing a change. Yes, lobbying and other concrete measures are also needed, but claiming that vegetarianism does no good just because it isn't changing the world overnight is short-sighted and frankly silly.

gnowee- firstly, it is about supply and demand. The idea is that the fewer people who eat meat, the less meat is needed, the fewer animals are bred to die. Ethically, we don't want to disagree with the process and then participate in it anyway, that's hypocricy. As well as that, not everyone will raid a farm- not all of us know how, have the guts to, or think it is morally right to steal.

There doesn't necessarily need to be a majority as long as the minority is loud enough. Stealing is going to leave people with animals they don't necessarily know what to do with, is going to give them a bad reputation, is going to damage their cause in the public eye, is going to cause farmers to carry on breeding at the same rate or even overcompensate in order to make up losses from stealing. Long term politics will work better than long term stealing.

Precisely.

Many of the vegans here are making the mistake of assuming meat farming is subject to market forces. It is not. When farmers can't sell all their meat, they just ask the government for extra money and for the most part, they get it. The government has to subsidize farming because there are so many aspects of it are largely out of human control (the weather, animal diseases etc). If farmers were left to deal with those problems on their own, they would go out of business too easily. As long as there are government subsidies, not eating meat doesn't necessarily save animals.

Or rather, it doesn't prevent more farm animals from being born, because once they are born it's already too late - They will die by slaughter whether they're eaten by humans or not. Slaughter is the cheapest way to deal with an animal that's no longer useful, and that includes old dairy cows and egg chickens.

Yes, that's all true. But again, you are thinking in incredibly short scale terms. Producers do not want to produce excess product - it's economic suicide, and even if they are receiving subsidies it's still a capitalistically better policy to try and reduce the supply to fit the demand. It won't be a rapid change...but it will change. And as others have said, even leaving all that aside, I don't want to participate in a system I find, well, stupid. We are not going to change each other's minds, so I probably won't continue responding if you continue to harp on the same points you've been making.

[oneofthesun]

If vegans and vegetarians make no difference, explain that away. Please.

First you tell me to explain something, then you finish your post by saying you won't listen to my response. I believe I do have an explanation, but what's the point?

[Blerdivor]

I don't give a crap about animals; I just never much was into a lot of meat eating. Also, I like practicing my ability to go without certain foods.

[asexual]

I love animals more than anything else. They are my reason I feel life is worth living.

[ilovebunnies]

I am a vegetarian. i dont eat eggs or meat. I have been this type for two and a half years. I want to eventually work my way to becoming a vegan. I cant eat an animal. I cant even kill a spider living outside my door.

I love animals more than anything else. They are my reason I feel life is worth living.

I feel the same way.

[Lost Patrol]

I'm currently 21, and I've been a strict vegan for about 5 years, and a vegetarian for a year prior to that, and pescatarian almost two years before going vegetarian. There are many reasons for which I'm vegan, none of which I feel like writing about right now - perhaps later.

[Astraia]

I've been a vegetarian for over ten years. I took issue with meat-eating from an ethical standpoint from a very young age (I remember being upset as a 6 year old on a farm visit because the animals we saw were the same sorts I'd eaten) but didn't realize vegetarianism was an option until much later. I was 12 when I stopped eating meat.

I like the idea of veganism in theory, but as I already have problems getting the right nutrition (I'm a picky eater!), it isn't really practical for me just now.

[asexual]

I've been a vegetarian for over ten years. I took issue with meat-eating from an ethical standpoint from a very young age (I remember being upset as a 6 year old on a farm visit because the animals we saw were the same sorts I'd eaten) but didn't realize vegetarianism was an option until much later. I was 12 when I stopped eating meat.

I like the idea of veganism in theory, but as I already have problems getting the right nutrition (I'm a picky eater!), it isn't really practical for me just now.

I don't consciously try to eat healthy but I seem to be, and my protein levels are very high. I do eat a lot of eggs though.

[Dylan-Michael]

I am a former Vegetarian, I kind of miss it.

[oneofthesun]

I don't consciously try to eat healthy but I seem to be, and my protein levels are very high. I do eat a lot of eggs though.

I was buying only free run eggs until I found out that's basically a scam... Just because the chickens aren't in individual cages doesn't mean they're well looked after. It doesn't take much for a producer to earn the "free run" label. Organic and from a small local farm is the only way to go.

[asexual]

I don't consciously try to eat healthy but I seem to be, and my protein levels are very high. I do eat a lot of eggs though.

I was buying only free run eggs until I found out that's basically a scam... Just because the chickens aren't in individual cages doesn't mean they're well looked after. It doesn't take much for a producer to earn the "free run" label. Organic and from a small local farm is the only way to go.

Yes that is true. I use to have my own pet chickens. I would like to again.

[Jacqui]

I'm pretty much pescatarian. I eat poultry on occasion, though. I'd love to switch to only eating sustainable fish someday.

I'm very pro-keeping-meat-legal, though. Some people need to eat meat to live. Torturing humans to save animals is wrong to me, when you can just make farming more humane and everyone can be happy.

[asexual]

I'm pretty much pescatarian. I eat poultry on occasion, though. I'd love to switch to only eating sustainable fish someday.

I'm very pro-keeping-meat-legal, though. Some people need to eat meat to live. Torturing humans to save animals is wrong to me, when you can just make farming more humane and everyone can be happy.

I don't know of anyone that needs to eat meat to live. I haven't eaten it in over 10 years and am very healthy