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Transgender but not transitioning


GirlInside

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This thread is for people who have an explicit gender identity opposite from their biological sex, whether that identity is male or female, but have chosen not to transition.

Of course, many of you have probably seen my website on that topic (the link is in my sig), but I'd like to see which other members feel as I do. This thread is to talk about our particular problems that transitioners and normal people never have to face, and how we deal with our unusual problem. (This thread is also for roll call purposes, so if you want, just a quick "me too" answer is fine.)

In another thread, someone suggested that I transition, after I mentioned not liking to have sexual thoughts because they remind me that I can never have sex as a woman (that's the gist of it, anyway). Here was my reply:

I don't wish to transition, for the following reasons:

1) People in our culture don't like transsexuals, and I would be seen as a transsexual, not a woman, because:

2) I wouldn't pass (I don't look like my avatar). The people I meet who see me as female are almost all women, and it's men who beat transsexuals to death.

3) Straight men and lesbians mostly aren't interested in sex with a transwoman, not when they can get a "real" woman. Thus it would defeat the purpose.

4) I'm happy being asexual.

5) I just plain don't believe in transitioning.

So, who's transgender but not transitioning?

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asexual cake

I haven't wholly made up my mind on the subject, and I'm not really interested in participating in this thread as a whole, but I'm curious - why don't you believe in transitioning?

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I don't plan on physically transitioning at all either, for similar reasons as GirlInside, but my two major ones are as follows:

1. There are always stereotypes that are given to transsexuals and I don't want to be pressured to live up to them (eg. all ftms must be macho and butch/all mtfs must be super femme and girly). I know that there are people like that, but after having been harassed and told I wasn't 'real' at various trans groups, I don't want to deal with that.

2. Since I have no interest in sex, I don't really see a need to undergo costly and, quite frankly, dangerous procedures to change my appearance for anyone but myself when there is a very good chance that they might not turn out how I want anyway.

Of course, if I could take a pill or something that would allow me to be what I see inside, that's a whole different story.

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mad_scientist

I'm FtN, but I plan on living out the life of a woman. My dysphoria is manageable enough that dangerous operations (all operations are dangerous), possible hormone replacements and having to explain the damn thing to everyone just aren't worth it. My body shape is far too feminine to be hard to gender without operations, so...

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mad_scientist

1. There are always stereotypes that are given to transsexuals and I don't want to be pressured to live up to them (eg. all ftms must be macho and butch/all mtfs must be super femme and girly). I know that there are people like that, but after having been harassed and told I wasn't 'real' at various trans groups, I don't want to deal with that.

Trans groups do that as well?! You'd think that that would be the one place...

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This thread is for people who have an explicit gender identity opposite from their biological sex, whether that identity is male or female, but have chosen not to transition.

Of course, many of you have probably seen my website on that topic (the link is in my sig), but I'd like to see which other members feel as I do. This thread is to talk about our particular problems that transitioners and normal people never have to face, and how we deal with our unusual problem. (This thread is also for roll call purposes, so if you want, just a quick "me too" answer is fine.)

In another thread, someone suggested that I transition, after I mentioned not liking to have sexual thoughts because they remind me that I can never have sex as a woman (that's the gist of it, anyway). Here was my reply:

I don't wish to transition, for the following reasons:

1) People in our culture don't like transsexuals, and I would be seen as a transsexual, not a woman, because:

2) I wouldn't pass (I don't look like my avatar). The people I meet who see me as female are almost all women, and it's men who beat transsexuals to death.

3) Straight men and lesbians mostly aren't interested in sex with a transwoman, not when they can get a "real" woman. Thus it would defeat the purpose.

4) I'm happy being asexual.

5) I just plain don't believe in transitioning.

So, who's transgender but not transitioning?

You can do/not do whatever you want, but I'd just like to point out that points 1 and 3 are not true, and point 2 probably wouldn't be if you really wanted to pass either.

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Cyborg Noodle

A while back I was thinking about whether transitioning would ever be a possibility for me. I came to the same conclusion as GirlInside, that I would never be considered a girl just a transgender. I think the only way I could go through with it is if they create a way to change gender much like how some reptiles are able to.

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Due to medical reasons I have little to no intentions of medically transitioning, sadly. But socially, yes, I live at least part-time as male. If I did medically transition I would still probably live half-and-half as male and female though.

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I am an FtM...but I decided againt total transition...

Not totally transitionning because, in my waking hours, I mostly feel like a neutrois, so I don't really 'need' to be seen as a male socially. And sexually I would never have the real 'parts' anyway...

I need some transitionning, because I just cannot stand my female genitals, I HAVE to close the hole as soon as possible...it's just...so very wrong...arg...

As long as my real friends can refrain from using girly things referring to me, I'll be fine.

(And if you wondered, yup, planning on trying to keep the ovaries intact)

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Professor Godric

1. There are always stereotypes that are given to transsexuals and I don't want to be pressured to live up to them (eg. all ftms must be macho and butch/all mtfs must be super femme and girly). I know that there are people like that, but after having been harassed and told I wasn't 'real' at various trans groups, I don't want to deal with that.

Trans groups do that as well?! You'd think that that would be the one place...

It is unfortunate, but trans groups tend to apply pressure to conform to certain trans ideals. There are many individuals who are accepting of different ways of going about things, but there are also many who say "oh, you have do get hormones, get surgery, dress like X, etc."

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1. There are always stereotypes that are given to transsexuals and I don't want to be pressured to live up to them (eg. all ftms must be macho and butch/all mtfs must be super femme and girly). I know that there are people like that, but after having been harassed and told I wasn't 'real' at various trans groups, I don't want to deal with that.

Trans groups do that as well?! You'd think that that would be the one place...

It is unfortunate, but trans groups tend to apply pressure to conform to certain trans ideals. There are many individuals who are accepting of different ways of going about things, but there are also many who say "oh, you have do get hormones, get surgery, dress like X, etc."

Not all groups do and I've met a few individuals that have told me to just be me and that's exactly what I'm doing. I'm going to be the best me that I can.

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Elliott Ford

This thread is for people who have an explicit gender identity opposite from their biological sex, whether that identity is male or female, but have chosen not to transition.

Of course, many of you have probably seen my website on that topic (the link is in my sig), but I'd like to see which other members feel as I do. This thread is to talk about our particular problems that transitioners and normal people never have to face, and how we deal with our unusual problem. (This thread is also for roll call purposes, so if you want, just a quick "me too" answer is fine.)

In another thread, someone suggested that I transition, after I mentioned not liking to have sexual thoughts because they remind me that I can never have sex as a woman (that's the gist of it, anyway). Here was my reply:

I don't wish to transition, for the following reasons:

1) People in our culture don't like transsexuals, and I would be seen as a transsexual, not a woman, because:

2) I wouldn't pass (I don't look like my avatar). The people I meet who see me as female are almost all women, and it's men who beat transsexuals to death.

3) Straight men and lesbians mostly aren't interested in sex with a transwoman, not when they can get a "real" woman. Thus it would defeat the purpose.

4) I'm happy being asexual.

5) I just plain don't believe in transitioning.

So, who's transgender but not transitioning?

You can do/not do whatever you want, but I'd just like to point out that points 1 and 3 are not true, and point 2 probably wouldn't be if you really wanted to pass either.

I'd like to amend your point, One of the Sun. I'd say that GirlInside's points one and three are not true of all places but are, regretably, still true in some places. Maybe they are true where she lives, maybe she is exaggerating a little (GirlInside, I do not wish to accuse you of exaggeration but I think there is a possibility that you have held these views so long that you have perhaps blinded yourself to the idea that things may have changed).

GirlInside's insistence that she wouldn't pass may also be true or close to the truth. It doesn't matter, so long as she is doing what is right for herself and she is the only person really likely to know what that is.

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I'd like to amend your point, One of the Sun. I'd say that GirlInside's points one and three are not true of all places but are, regretably, still true in some places.

Yeah, that's actually what I meant. If I didn't already live in a pretty trans-positive place I would move. And as to passing, you'd be surprised how far the right clothes and haircut will take you. But besides that, they have something now called facial feminization surgery. I don't know exactly what's involved, but I know a transgirl that had it and I completely didn't recognize her afterward. You'd never guess she was born male.

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Professor Godric

I'd like to amend your point, One of the Sun. I'd say that GirlInside's points one and three are not true of all places but are, regretably, still true in some places.

Yeah, that's actually what I meant. If I didn't already live in a pretty trans-positive place I would move. And as to passing, you'd be surprised how far the right clothes and haircut will take you. But besides that, they have something now called facial feminization surgery. I don't know exactly what's involved, but I know a transgirl that had it and I completely didn't recognize her afterward. You'd never guess she was born male.

You're in Canada too? And a trans-positive city...are you perchance from K-Town?

I'd like to amend your point, One of the Sun. I'd say that GirlInside's points one and three are not true of all places but are, regretably, still true in some places.

Yeah, that's actually what I meant. If I didn't already live in a pretty trans-positive place I would move. And as to passing, you'd be surprised how far the right clothes and haircut will take you. But besides that, they have something now called facial feminization surgery. I don't know exactly what's involved, but I know a transgirl that had it and I completely didn't recognize her afterward. You'd never guess she was born male.

You're in Canada too? And a trans-positive city...are you perchance from K-Town?

Abominable name for it, but you'll know where I mean if you're from where I am.

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A few different issues, firstly, money. Also, like Preskom I switch between feeling neutrois and ftm. When I feel neutrois, I want a male body, but it's more because I feel masculine, rather than a 'man' or 'boy' etc. I feel like I should have been born with a male body, but my mind/personality can't grasp attaching itself to labels like male/female, man/woman, just masculine, and that is obscure in itself. When I feel ftm I feel like I've woken up in female body, but have amnesia of the time I was male, instead a bunch of blurry memories of the times I stumbled halfheartedly through female gender socialisation. Anyway, naturally having boobs is a weird thrill, and I get a free pass into 'girl stuff' I get in on things that would otherwise be alien to me if I had been born in a male body. I think 'I have something other biomales can only dream of' I mean come on, how many cisgendered guys would like to be female, if only for a day. The only problem is I roughly know the female lifestyle now, I want to change back already.

There's other issues too - my family. I come home every weekend, and on school breaks. I've tried to hint about it but my mum became scared. And I was so emotionally exhausted from coming out as a lesbian, I couldn't take coming out all over again. I didn't want to do that to my family again. Obviously ridicule from a larger community is always a deterrant as well - and mine is pretty conservative. Unless I was move far away, but that comes back to the issue of being close to my family at present.

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Abominable name for it, but you'll know where I mean if you're from where I am.

Well I don't know what you mean so...

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This is something I have really been wrestling with a lot lately, and I always keep coming back to the same conclusion that I want to partially transition once I have the courage to do so.

One of the few things that I get more emotional about than being born in the wrong body is the idea of surgery or taking estrogen. I have a crippling fear of surgery and medical procedures to begin with, the unknowns scare me, and at times the obstinate side of me just wants to scream "I don't care what you think, I'm a woman, bite me" because I sometimes feel for my own situation that I shouldn't have to surgically alter myself, but rather other people need to open their minds about gender. So that, combined with the fact that, when I'm honest with myself, my eating patterns are already...problematic, and I have a deep and constant fear of weight gain, taking estrogen and the constant fear of dealing with potential weight gain from that might only compound problems. If my goal is to try to be as happy as possible and ok with myself as possible, then that seems counter-productive.

Another reason is that my family is never going to understand or come to grips with this. I've tried in the past as a feminist to raise questions of gender, gender roles, gender identity, etc. to my family and they have never been receptive to it, and there is underlying and sometimes explicit homophobia and transphobia that comes up. Sometimes when I challenge it things change, but I don't think the sentiments have changed. I'm not sure what would happen if I transitioned, let alone tried to explain I am trans and homoromantic, and I don't think I could take the likely condescension and derision about it (that it is a phase, or that if I want relationships with women I'm really straight and just super confused - this is a concern for me that extends just beyond my family too...I want to be taken seriously but fear no one will take me seriously). It is also super important to me that my parents feel like they were successful in raising me because they gave so much and invested so much, and while I know this sounds terrible, I'm afraid they feel like they failed as parents even though they didn't. So basically, I need to be able both to have a degree of reversibility, and to be ok enough with changing my presentation so I can deal with them and my grandparents. Of course the longer hair and the pierced ears will be difficult to explain when they see me next but seriously, bite me.

I suppose a final reason is that I really don't want to have sex anyhow so, with respect to the sex organs, it doesn't matter anyhow. And for me, this isn't what I feel defines me as male or female to begin: whether I have a penis or a vagina, I'm still a woman, and while I may hate my bone structure and what is between my legs, I hope I can at least come to be ok enough with the fact that it is what it is.

Ideally I want to eventually be courageous enough to present as an androgynous or slightly masculine woman (I mean really, that's about all I can hope for), I already have begun unlearning the "masculine" stuff I tried to learn to pretend to be a guy so I am increasingly more feminine in my mannerisms, speaking patterns, etc. (which really means I'm increasingly being, well, me!), go by female pronouns as the norm, and really, what is very important to me and that I feel with such urgency, is just have people see me as the woman I am, which may not always be possible (or safe), but I want to seek out as many places and groups of people as possible where I can do that and just reach a point where I can just be person x without all the crazy, uptight, nervousness I feel all the time because I suck at being a guy to begin with and just want to move through social space. I mean ideally I'd always dress and act in a way most people would read as feminine (or at least when they try to guess, they lean female). Although that sounds hypocritical because I don't necessarily feel I need to "pass", I just want to be feminine and open people's minds to questions of gender. Sadly I'm a coward and thus this ideal world, which I know I don't live in anyhow, is a myth, and I will only be a fraction of the person I just described :(

Those are my thoughts and feelings about the question as it relates to me.

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I am a male on the outside and a woman inside, but I don't want to transition. But I have read My Gender Workbook by Kate Bornstein: http://books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=0415916739 , and believe that the real me cannot be described as being either female or male. Gender is much more fluid than those two categories.

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Professor Godric

I wouldn't transition, mostly because I don't know what I'd transition to, or even if my gender identity is stable enough for it to be satisfying. I wish I could change my shape, like the superheroes who would do. I'd seriously go nuts. I'd be a short guy one day, a very tall woman the next, a tiny asian girl the next day...I'd try everything. It would be glory. It would also be confusing.

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I wouldn't transition, mostly because I don't know what I'd transition to, or even if my gender identity is stable enough for it to be satisfying. I wish I could change my shape, like the superheroes who would do. I'd seriously go nuts. I'd be a short guy one day, a very tall woman the next, a tiny asian girl the next day...I'd try everything. It would be glory. It would also be confusing.

Oh if only we could be changeling shapeshifters, that would be cool!

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mad_scientist

I am an FtM...but I decided againt total transition...

Not totally transitionning because, in my waking hours, I mostly feel like a neutrois, so I don't really 'need' to be seen as a male socially. And sexually I would never have the real 'parts' anyway...

I need some transitionning, because I just cannot stand my female genitals, I HAVE to close the hole as soon as possible...it's just...so very wrong...arg...

As long as my real friends can refrain from using girly things referring to me, I'll be fine.

(And if you wondered, yup, planning on trying to keep the ovaries intact)

Good call. Unless you want to go on male hormones, keeping the ovaries will save you having to take annoying female ones. Human bodies don't like an absence of sex hormones, for some reason.

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birdsdoitbeesdoitIdon't

Well, Hi, everyone. I'm not changing my body because I already see my body as male. So I don't feel I need to take hormones or have surgery to become so. It's that simple for me. Cheers! ^_^

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Well, Hi, everyone. I'm not changing my body because I already see my body as male. So I don't feel I need to take hormones or have surgery to become so. It's that simple for me. Cheers! ^_^

I don't understand. If your body is physically female, how can you see it as a male body? Try as I might, I can't go as far as you. My body is male, even though all the stuff that really matters is female.

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mad_scientist

Well, Hi, everyone. I'm not changing my body because I already see my body as male. So I don't feel I need to take hormones or have surgery to become so. It's that simple for me. Cheers! ^_^

I don't understand. If your body is physically female, how can you see it as a male body? Try as I might, I can't go as far as you. My body is male, even though all the stuff that really matters is female.

If a body belongs to a male, isn't it a male's body by definition? I guess it depends on how strongly you equate sex and gender in your own mind.

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Well, Hi, everyone. I'm not changing my body because I already see my body as male. So I don't feel I need to take hormones or have surgery to become so. It's that simple for me. Cheers! ^_^

I don't understand. If your body is physically female, how can you see it as a male body? Try as I might, I can't go as far as you. My body is male, even though all the stuff that really matters is female.

If a body belongs to a male, isn't it a male's body by definition? I guess it depends on how strongly you equate sex and gender in your own mind.

Yea, it's a male's body, but if he is biologically female, than it's not a male body, is it? I think a male body and a male's body are different things (though they coincide 99% of the time). My body is male, but it belongs to a female--me.

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I am currently transitioning, but for a long while I was toying with the idea of not transitioning, to somehow makes steps to support myself in that. Girlinside's website was a factor in that line of thinking.

It quickly became apparent that I just wouldn't be happy that way, but that's a largely personal issue, and wouldn't necessarily apply to everyone.

I would like to say that decisions should be directed toward adding things to one's life, not taking away. And to make decisions based on external influences and fear is really dangerous.

So deciding not to transition because of social concerns or relationship issues is, in my opinion folly. But equally so, deciding to transition because you can't fathom living as you are might mean you should have more thought on the issue...

Everyone should make a decision based on what works for them and what will make them happy in the long term.

I would like to address Girlinside's 5 points.

1) People in our culture don't like transsexuals, and I would be seen as a transsexual, not a woman, because:

This might be true in some parts of the world, but not in my part of the world. And I don't mind being seen as transgender, it's better than being seen as male. And the only way to change society is to force it to. To be in people's faces about gender.

2) I wouldn't pass (I don't look like my avatar). The people I meet who see me as female are almost all women, and it's men who beat transsexuals to death.

Men, on the whole, I feel have the strongest enforced gender roles in society. Women's might be more obvious, but men's are stronger. As such a trans person might challenge their preconceptions and beliefs about gender, and their own sense of gender and possibly sexuality. This is as much a societal issue as it is an issue for individuals. Violence is never an appropriate response to these challenges, but the only way we can start to do away with the sense of challenges is to change society. To be open about who and what we are. This includes non-transitioning people to help society understand that not all trans people, or indeed gender queer people have a need to change their bodies, and that shouldn't make their gender identity any less valid than someone who does transition.

3) Straight men and lesbians mostly aren't interested in sex with a transwoman, not when they can get a "real" woman. Thus it would defeat the purpose.

That's a stark generalisations, and simply false. Some individuals may have issues with trans people in terms of sexual relations, but on the whole most people are adaptable. In any case sex isn't the be all and end all of relationships. Asexuality clearly proves that, by showing all the romantic asexuals who have had successful relationships without or with minimal sex.

The same issues apply to trans people, sex isn't easy, and will need to be discussed by both partners. To have such a black and white generalised view is really closing one's mind to all myriad possibilities in life.

4) I'm happy being asexual.

Me too. But I don't see how that applies to transition or not to transition.

5) I just plain don't believe in transitioning.

A personal opinion, and a perfectly valid one at that. People shouldn't force themselves into a decision they simply don't agree with.

My two cents worth.

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I am currently transitioning, but for a long while I was toying with the idea of not transitioning, to somehow makes steps to support myself in that. Girlinside's website was a factor in that line of thinking.

Wow, it's nice to know I helped make your decision to transition a more informed decision.

I would like to reply to your rebuttal against my points:

1) People in our culture don't like transsexuals, and I would be seen as a transsexual, not a woman, because:

This might be true in some parts of the world, but not in my part of the world. And I don't mind being seen as transgender, it's better than being seen as male. And the only way to change society is to force it to. To be in people's faces about gender.

You do know that's really risky, right? Society doesn't like to be forced to change, and it bites back.

(I have the same response to your point about #2, so I won't quote that)

3) Straight men and lesbians mostly aren't interested in sex with a transwoman, not when they can get a "real" woman. Thus it would defeat the purpose.

That's a stark generalisations, and simply false. Some individuals may have issues with trans people in terms of sexual relations, but on the whole most people are adaptable.

Have you ever tried it? I have, a few times. You don't know what you're talking about. Don't talk about things you know nothing about.

In any case sex isn't the be all and end all of relationships. Asexuality clearly proves that, by showing all the romantic asexuals who have had successful relationships without or with minimal sex.

It doesn't matter whether that's true; most people believe that relationships have to be sexual.

The same issues apply to trans people, sex isn't easy, and will need to be discussed by both partners. To have such a black and white generalised view is really closing one's mind to all myriad possibilities in life.

Such "possibilities" generally only happen to a lucky few.

4) I'm happy being asexual.

Me too. But I don't see how that applies to transition or not to transition.

Well, some people are motivated by the possibility of an improved sex life with the right genitalia, so that's why I brought it up.

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1) People in our culture don't like transsexuals, and I would be seen as a transsexual, not a woman, because:

This might be true in some parts of the world, but not in my part of the world. And I don't mind being seen as transgender, it's better than being seen as male. And the only way to change society is to force it to. To be in people's faces about gender.

You do know that's really risky, right? Society doesn't like to be forced to change, and it bites back.

(I have the same response to your point about #2, so I won't quote that)

Life is risky. I would rather be out there, open and be killed for it, than to have never tried to push the envelope at all. I'm autistic, and asexual and trans. So I know all too well how rigid society can be, but I also know that with time and effort society can change.

3) Straight men and lesbians mostly aren't interested in sex with a transwoman, not when they can get a "real" woman. Thus it would defeat the purpose.

That's a stark generalisations, and simply false. Some individuals may have issues with trans people in terms of sexual relations, but on the whole most people are adaptable.

Have you ever tried it? I have, a few times. You don't know what you're talking about. Don't talk about things you know nothing about.

You're assuming I don't have experience in this?

I know of several people (inc my new gf) who have no problem with having relations with a trans person.

Yes it's a big deal, but individual are adaptable and willing to communicate.

You're making wild assumptions about the world and apply generalisations to everyone indiscriminately. You'd be better off treating each person according to their merits. Especially if you want people to do that for you.

I do accept that sexual/physical relationship as a transitioning trans person can be difficult, as I said, but look at the bigger picture. If someone isn't accepting of me as a trans woman, then they simply are not suitable as a partner. If it takes me forever to find a suitable person so be it.

I find lack of relationships to be a rather superficial concern. Considering I had no desire to engage in another one after my wife, but now have a girlfriend.

I don't know what it's like to be a trans person who isn't transitioning just as you don't know what it's like to be transitioning. And yet we here talking about something we both "know nothing" about.

You've done research yes, but mostly into the negative side of things, and that's valid knowledge, just as my admittedly limited experience with relationships is valid knowledge on this topic.

So don't tell me what I do and do not know. I know what I know. You don't know what I know. Therefore don't talk about what you know nothing about :P

In any case sex isn't the be all and end all of relationships. Asexuality clearly proves that, by showing all the romantic asexuals who have had successful relationships without or with minimal sex.

It doesn't matter whether that's true; most people believe that relationships have to be sexual.

Most. Again, be the change you want to see in the world. If you want people to be open minded and accepting of your needs and wants you need to be the same to them.

The same issues apply to trans people, sex isn't easy, and will need to be discussed by both partners. To have such a black and white generalised view is really closing one's mind to all myriad possibilities in life.

Such "possibilities" generally only happen to a lucky few.

No. They happen to those who MAKE them happen. Again you're shutting yourself away. Shying away from what could be in fear of what might be.

Fear will destroy you.

4) I'm happy being asexual.

Me too. But I don't see how that applies to transition or not to transition.

Well, some people are motivated by the possibility of an improved sex life with the right genitalia, so that's why I brought it up.

That's not asexuality. Nor an asexual issue.

I'm asexual, and happy being so. I also want SRS eventually and have thought about the possibility of having sex afterward. That doesn't make me any less asexual.

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1) People in our culture don't like transsexuals, and I would be seen as a transsexual, not a woman, because:

This might be true in some parts of the world, but not in my part of the world. And I don't mind being seen as transgender, it's better than being seen as male. And the only way to change society is to force it to. To be in people's faces about gender.

You do know that's really risky, right? Society doesn't like to be forced to change, and it bites back.

(I have the same response to your point about #2, so I won't quote that)

Life is risky. I would rather be out there, open and be killed for it, than to have never tried to push the envelope at all.

Here's where we disagree. I'm going to go with the assumption that there exists at least one person who loves you and would be devastated if anything happened to you. To risk your life is to ignore her feelings (I'm picturing a woman). And you're doing it for your own personal desires. Such behavior is very male.

Ironically, you're acting out some bad male behavior to get a little taste of womanhood. It's not an attack on you personally, it's something I notice with a lot of MTFs.

BTW this is a thread for people NOT transitioning, so if you post here, expect us to disagree with you.

I'm autistic, and asexual and trans. So I know all too well how rigid society can be, but I also know that with time and effort society can change.

But it won't change because of you and you alone. Society doesn't change because Kaylee Saeihr tells it to--or because Sarah Lastname (that's my nom de website) tells it to, for that matter. Society changes the way it changes, regardless of what you or I do (unless you talk about the butterfly effect, where a single hand gesture by one of us can cause it to rain somewhere in Africa).

You'd be better off treating each person according to their merits. Especially if you want people to do that for you.

Well, I'm conservative, so I wouldn't want to live in a culture that would permit me to be as out as you are.

I do accept that sexual/physical relationship as a transitioning trans person can be difficult, as I said, but look at the bigger picture. If someone isn't accepting of me as a trans woman, then they simply are not suitable as a partner. If it takes me forever to find a suitable person so be it.

Personally, I don't believe in expending so much effort for something that isn't likely to work out--I have Asperger's too, and I can't even keep a stable friendship. I've given those up because they just don't work out.

I don't know what it's like to be a trans person who isn't transitioning just as you don't know what it's like to be transitioning. And yet we here talking about something we both "know nothing" about.

[laughs] Good point.

The same issues apply to trans people, sex isn't easy, and will need to be discussed by both partners. To have such a black and white generalised view is really closing one's mind to all myriad possibilities in life.

Such "possibilities" generally only happen to a lucky few.

No. They happen to those who MAKE them happen. Again you're shutting yourself away. Shying away from what could be in fear of what might be.

Fear will destroy you.

I don't believe in gambling.

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You'd be better off treating each person according to their merits. Especially if you want people to do that for you.

Well, I'm conservative, so I wouldn't want to live in a culture that would permit me to be as out as you are.

But Girl, why? Is it worth sticking to your political principles when living in accordance with them could/would make you miserable?

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