no-longer-in-use Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 @Panic @baa*baa*grey*sheep Welcome to our little hideout There are plenty of people here who can answer any questions you have. Panic, gender expression can be tricky. I understand the struggle and I wish you the best in figuring it out. If you need any specific advice, I can do my best to help. Grey sheep, you sound like you could be genderfluid if your gender changes. The "something else" part could be something like neutrois or maverique. I would look into those and similar identities. Good luck in figuring it out! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bloc Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 8 hours ago, Panic said: Things like changing the way I look, my name, my pronouns are all really scary for me. I'm worried about judgement from friends and family and others, is that something you had to tackle? This is something I am tackling with. And also to find out what I really want. With changing the look I am introducing more and more "feminine" elements and see how it works. Changing name is not something which I think about at the moment. Before changing pronouns I am working on speaking about myself without gendering myself all the time, which is difficult in German. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fluffy Femme Guy Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 I got a skirt at a goodwill yeterday. 9 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
no-longer-in-use Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 18 minutes ago, Fluffy Femme Guy said: I got a skirt at a goodwill yeterday. 1 Yay!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
General Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 On Saturday, February 16, 2019 at 10:11 PM, nerdperson777 said: My roommate is like that but "the other way". They are a non-binary lesbian, AFAB. They told me that the only person who should know they have boobs is the person they sleep with. So I take that to be they consider themselves female only in bed. I never understood the label of "nonbinary lesbian." I'm afab nonbinary and I'm romantically attracted to cis women, but I'm not a lesbian. Unless your roommate is gender fluid and they are a woman sometimes......I don't see how that's possible otherwise. If your body isn't required to be assigned female at birth to be a lesbian....because trans women.....And your gender in your mind doesn't have to be exclusively woman/girl to be a lesbian....because gender fluid people......What exactly makes a person a lesbian again? LOL 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nerdperson777 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 On 3/2/2019 at 1:42 PM, Panic said: @nerdperson777 Hey, it's nice to meet you, thanks for the welcome and thanks for sharing some of your story with me. May I ask how long it took you to come to terms with all of that? Obviously I know it's going to vary for everyone, but I'd love to know if you're willing to tell. Things like changing the way I look, my name, my pronouns are all really scary for me. I'm worried about judgement from friends and family and others, is that something you had to tackle? (Wouldn't mind taking this to PM if you'd prefer!) Hi! Sorry it took a while for me to get back to you. I got busy over the weekend. But to answer your question, I started questioning my gender back in about April 2014. I didn't know my teacher was trans. She told me that I could tell her anything so one moment I decided to say that I felt like a guy. It finally made sense why people were calling this assumed male she/her. So she basically thrust me into social transition, using a different name and male pronouns, when I wasn't sure I was ready yet. I just started thinking about these things at the time. It's easy to think, I'm still a girl, right? This isn't real, is it? It started off as an identity that was just within that one group, and then I started using it for other things. When I started working, I was just assumed male with a masculine name. I hardly see gender neutral bathrooms near me after graduating college so I often forget that it's an option when I see it. Other people might not notice that I'm not binary since my gender expression is pretty much binary. So I've probably been using my current identity for 4 and a half years now? So I probably was getting comfortable in this the last year or half year. I know that when I was at school, I was still hesitating around on how I was. I remember trying to search for housing near school and I almost had found one until the people offering the place said they wanted an all girls place. I blurted out that I was legally female so that I could still get the place. I hadn't referred to myself as female for at least a few months by then and hadn't used female gendered bathrooms but I totally freaked out. All this can be pretty new and it takes time to settle in. My family is like the true meaning of "don't change". Literally nothing changes in the family. We hoard so we have stuff that goes back even before I was born. My parents guilted me so it was wrong to not be normal. Being trans? That just means I'll be picked on more than I already was. My chosen name is actually the closest thing to a genderbent name that my friends had for each other back in high school. My name can't be directly genderbent but the rest of my friends probably had better luck. I had told my teacher about this name so then everyone in the group was calling me this now. I eventually cut my hair into a classic boy cut. This felt really weird to me. I had the same hairstyle all my life and then now I can actually feel my neck and ears on the pillow. That took some getting used to. My wardrobe was mostly t-shirts or other unisex things so I didn't change much other than having more male gendered shirts. For pronouns, right now everyone just uses he for me. I felt good about it the first time it was used but over time I just felt there was too much needless gendering. Pronouns are now more about what isn't wrong rather than what's correct. She/her is wrong for me. "It" doesn't give me gender dysphoria but it gives me PTSD about how my mom treated me like I was worthless. So I just use he/they because I find it easier. I look male so why wouldn't people use he/him? They/them is then just me choosing not to gender myself. As long as I don't feel bad about the pronouns, they can be used on me. You are welcome to PM me or we can talk more here. 9 hours ago, Fluffy Femme Guy said: I got a skirt at a goodwill yeterday. I was surprised to find some dress shoes there once. It was exactly what I was looking for. And with my in between foot size, I was able to find some boy shoes. (The "joy" of not being able to wear men's shoes because they're freakishly too big for me.) They were perfect because they were already broken in and they weren't insanely expensive. 5 hours ago, AceOfHearts_85 said: I never understood the label of "nonbinary lesbian." I'm afab nonbinary and I'm romantically attracted to cis women, but I'm not a lesbian. Unless your roommate is gender fluid and they are a woman sometimes......I don't see how that's possible otherwise. If your body isn't required to be assigned female at birth to be a lesbian....because trans women.....And your gender in your mind doesn't have to be exclusively woman/girl to be a lesbian....because gender fluid people......What exactly makes a person a lesbian again? LOL People identify however they identify. *shrugs* I saw a question from a non-binary group the other day and someone asked if someone AFAB be transfeminine or AMAB transmasculine. I said that my definition for the terms were that transmasculine was for non-binary AFAB people who felt more masculine aligned and same idea for transfeminine. Someone who is AFAB non-binary and more feminine aligned would be demigirl to me. Same logic for demiboy. But despite how I understood all these definitions, if someone identifies as AFAB transfeminine or AMAB transmasculine, I can't just be "no you're wrong" because that would be policing. I can only respect their identity in that case. Words get redefined all the time so I have no idea what definition lesbian means anymore. I have non-binary friends who say "I'M GAY" all the time so what's gay? The one friend who says this all the time is AFAB and some complicated non-binary gender. They are bi in that they would date two genders but aro ace because they don't feel attraction. What's gay to them? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Celyn: The Lutening Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 10 minutes ago, StomachGod said: . (or maybe transefeminine and transmasculine are more specific terms?) I thought it was the other way round, as in demigirl is a specific transfeminine identity, along with others like gynefluid, faesari, juxera etc. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nerdperson777 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 14 hours ago, StomachGod said: I know a non-binary lesbian, as far as I can tell she is theoretically speaking somewhere along the lines of demigirl (thought I don't think she uses that term). So as a "demigirl" who likes girls she can still be considered lesbian I guess? My roommate never said they were a demigirl so I can only guess based on my understanding of the terms. Like my friend from college, I would say that she's cisgenderless. She has no dysphoria and said any pronouns work. When I suggested the term to her, she did say that she wouldn't care what she was born as. Last time we discussed this, she said she's gender non-conforming. But most of the time she isn't involved with stuff in the community. She was too busy with some geology club in grad school to go to ace meetings. But priorities I guess. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
no-longer-in-use Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 21 hours ago, AceOfHearts_85 said: I never understood the label of "nonbinary lesbian." I'm afab nonbinary and I'm romantically attracted to cis women, but I'm not a lesbian. Unless your roommate is gender fluid and they are a woman sometimes......I don't see how that's possible otherwise. If your body isn't required to be assigned female at birth to be a lesbian....because trans women.....And your gender in your mind doesn't have to be exclusively woman/girl to be a lesbian....because gender fluid people......What exactly makes a person a lesbian again? LOL I don't really understand it myself because the definition of lesbian is a homosexual woman, but I try to not to care too much about what other people label themselves. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Enne Kristin Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 a woman is a woman is a woman... no matter if she is cis, trans, nonbinary, whatever... many transexclusivist ppl might deny this, but I don't care... 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
General Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 4 hours ago, Coddiwomple said: I don't really understand it myself because the definition of lesbian is a homosexual woman, but I try to not to care too much about what other people label themselves. That's the definition I've always known, and I'm pretty sure most old school lesbians aren't having it any other way. I mean, this does partially affect me because some people are out here assuming things and telling me I'm gay because I like women and I'm afab. Talk about dysphoria inducing. SMH 😷 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
General Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 20 hours ago, nerdperson777 said: People identify however they identify. *shrugs* I saw a question from a non-binary group the other day and someone asked if someone AFAB be transfeminine or AMAB transmasculine. I said that my definition for the terms were that transmasculine was for non-binary AFAB people who felt more masculine aligned and same idea for transfeminine. Someone who is AFAB non-binary and more feminine aligned would be demigirl to me. Same logic for demiboy. But despite how I understood all these definitions, if someone identifies as AFAB transfeminine or AMAB transmasculine, I can't just be "no you're wrong" because that would be policing. I can only respect their identity in that case. Words get redefined all the time so I have no idea what definition lesbian means anymore. I have non-binary friends who say "I'M GAY" all the time so what's gay? The one friend who says this all the time is AFAB and some complicated non-binary gender. They are bi in that they would date two genders but aro ace because they don't feel attraction. What's gay to them? OhMyLort LOL See, that's why I like having one definition of something that's universally agreed upon, because nowadays all kinds of things can be misconstrued. Even though I'm a masculine AFAB nonbinary, I'm most definitely not a demiboy or transmasculine person. I don't identify as a man/boy at all and I don't believe you have to be trans anything in order to be masculine. I can't even consider myself a trans person at this point because I don't actually fit all of the criteria, even in the "umbrella term" sense of the word. In all honesty I think many of these people don't even know what they are because they don't bother to do the research. Makes me gag when someone tells me "You're just gay," amongst other things. I can't police anyone about their own identity, but I surely can police them about mine. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Light02 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 I don't really understand what's the big deal about people identifying with feminine-coded words or descriptors, especially amongst non-binary people. Just because the official definition of "lesbian" is "homosexual woman" it doesn't mean people who don't strictly id as women but feel a connection to the term are barred from using it 🤨. For example, Ash and Grace Hardell are a non-binary couple on youtube but they call each other their wife. Just because the dictionary definition of "wife" is "woman you are married to" or whatever it doen't mean they're not allowed to use it because they aren't actually women, lol. My enby roommate also identifies as a lesbian, they're also not a woman. It's not that hard to understand. I'm enby, if I started dating someone I'd be fine with them calling me their boyfriend. Plenty of non-binary people use typically masculine or feminine pronouns like "he" or "she", how is any of this weird?? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
General Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Light02 said: I don't really understand what's the big deal about people identifying with feminine-coded words or descriptors, especially amongst non-binary people. Just because the official definition of "lesbian" is "homosexual woman" it doesn't mean people who don't strictly id as women but feel a connection to the term are barred from using it 🤨. For example, Ash and Grace Hardell are a non-binary couple on youtube but they call each other their wife. Just because the dictionary definition of "wife" is "woman you are married to" or whatever it doen't mean they're not allowed to use it because they aren't actually women, lol. My enby roommate also identifies as a lesbian, they're also not a woman. It's not that hard to understand. I'm enby, if I started dating someone I'd be fine with them calling me their boyfriend. Plenty of non-binary people use typically masculine or feminine pronouns like "he" or "she", how is any of this weird?? It becomes incredibly confusing for most everyone, especially those who aren't well versed in LGBT+ issues. The one thing that puts me off is when somebody hears about someone else's identity and then automatically assumes everyone in that category or sub-category is the exact same way. For example, there are people who think all nonbinary individuals are trans. That isn't true. Or when people think if you're attracted to women and you're AFAB that makes you a lesbian by default. That isn't true either. A lot of misinformation is being spread around because some folks are trying to intentionally blur the lines. I don't appreciate people assuming things about my identity that isn't true. It's getting more difficult to explain myself to others because they've heard so many contradictions and inconsistent statements/claims. It's definitely not helping the situation with the cis hets either, because they really think we're all clinically insane now. Think about it. Why would anyone at all accept and support a movement that has no order and makes no logical sense? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
QuirkyGeek Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Anyone have any tips for formal outfits for closeted enbies? I need one, but I often experience dysphoria with most dresses. I saw the binder dress link which looked really cool but they seemed to have limited options that just weren't my style. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Celyn: The Lutening Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 18 minutes ago, QuirkyGeek said: Anyone have any tips for formal outfits for closeted enbies? I need one, but I often experience dysphoria with most dresses. I saw the binder dress link which looked really cool but they seemed to have limited options that just weren't my style. Does it have to be a dress? *Chanting* SUIT, SUIT, SUIT, SUIT. Could find a "women's" (blegh) one that isn't too feminine in cut. Or: I don't know what size you are but I'm quite small and I buy clothes including formal stuff from the teen boys section. Just suit. All genders look good in suit. Suit. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Light02 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 4 hours ago, AceOfHearts_85 said: It becomes incredibly confusing for most everyone, especially those who aren't well versed in LGBT+ issues. The one thing that puts me off is when somebody hears about someone else's identity and then automatically assumes everyone in that category or sub-category is the exact same way. For example, there are people who think all nonbinary individuals are trans. That isn't true. Or when people think if you're attracted to women and you're AFAB that makes you a lesbian by default. That isn't true either. A lot of misinformation is being spread around because some folks are trying to intentionally blur the lines. I don't appreciate people assuming things about my identity that isn't true. It's getting more difficult to explain myself to others because they've heard so many contradictions and inconsistent statements/claims. It's definitely not helping the situation with the cis hets either, because they really think we're all clinically insane now. Think about it. Why would anyone at all accept and support a movement that has no order and makes no logical sense? I don't give a shit what cishet people think about the queer/trans/non-binary community and I hate respectability politics. That being said, I get how frustrating it can be when people make generalizations or assumptions about your identity based on other people with your same identity but that's on the people making the assumptions, not on queer people. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nerdperson777 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 2 hours ago, QuirkyGeek said: Anyone have any tips for formal outfits for closeted enbies? I need one, but I often experience dysphoria with most dresses. I saw the binder dress link which looked really cool but they seemed to have limited options that just weren't my style. Well a suit has been mentioned but maybe a pantsuit? I went to a wedding in one before. I didn't know back then but I was thinking, at least I'm not wearing a dress. 5 hours ago, Light02 said: I don't really understand what's the big deal about people identifying with feminine-coded words or descriptors, especially amongst non-binary people. Just because the official definition of "lesbian" is "homosexual woman" it doesn't mean people who don't strictly id as women but feel a connection to the term are barred from using it 🤨. For example, Ash and Grace Hardell are a non-binary couple on youtube but they call each other their wife. Just because the dictionary definition of "wife" is "woman you are married to" or whatever it doen't mean they're not allowed to use it because they aren't actually women, lol. My enby roommate also identifies as a lesbian, they're also not a woman. It's not that hard to understand. I'm enby, if I started dating someone I'd be fine with them calling me their boyfriend. Plenty of non-binary people use typically masculine or feminine pronouns like "he" or "she", how is any of this weird?? There are people arguing now about what femme and masc are. Sometimes people are grouped "women and femmes", but that would be inaccurate in some cases. What if someone is a femme man? Would such a person feel like they belong in a group with women or vise versa? Not always. 5 hours ago, AceOfHearts_85 said: I don't appreciate people assuming things about my identity that isn't true. It's getting more difficult to explain myself to others because they've heard so many contradictions and inconsistent statements/claims. It's definitely not helping the situation with the cis hets either, because they really think we're all clinically insane now. Think about it. Why would anyone at all accept and support a movement that has no order and makes no logical sense? Words are evolving and it can be frustrating watching them change from how you knew it to something else. But as for your question, that's probably what they want to think. They don't understand what it's like to feel like another gender or like any other gender than "opposite". The only thing they should think to understand is that this is a person, and if you call them the name and pronouns they want to be called, there will be no conflict. It's just respecting who someone is. Instead of trying to make a big deal about it, just trust people that they know what they're feeling. People like my parents only think about it too much. They're only thinking about how it affects them. It doesn't cost anything to treat people right. Can it really be called a delusion when someone can live a better life forever and all you have to do is respect their identity? 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
General Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 3 hours ago, Light02 said: I don't give a shit what cishet people think about the queer/trans/non-binary community and I hate respectability politics. That being said, I get how frustrating it can be when people make generalizations or assumptions about your identity based on other people with your same identity but that's on the people making the assumptions, not on queer people. Agreed, but cis hets are still in a position of power over us in many situations such as job employment and healthcare amongst other things. We are a minority, and we are seen as expendable as it is. If it gets to the point where we lose all credibility we're going to be in some deep shit. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Karst Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 hour ago, AceOfHearts_85 said: Agreed, but cis hets are still in a position of power over us in many situations such as job employment and healthcare amongst other things. We are a minority, and we are seen as expendable as it is. If it gets to the point where we lose all credibility we're going to be in some deep shit. This is the problem every oppressed group runs into. You want to be accepted, but you also don't want to have to exist on your oppressors' terms. 11 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
no-longer-in-use Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 6 hours ago, Light02 said: I don't give a shit what cishet people think about the queer/trans/non-binary community and I hate respectability politics. That being said, I get how frustrating it can be when people make generalizations or assumptions about your identity based on other people with your same identity but that's on the people making the assumptions, not on queer people. I agree; we don't have to remold who we are and the language we use to describe ourselves to make ourselves more accessible to the rest of the world. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
General Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Ardoise said: This is the problem every oppressed group runs into. You want to be accepted, but you also don't want to have to exist on your oppressors' terms. ☝ Exactly. It's an extraordinarily difficult situation to be in. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 7 hours ago, Celyn said: Does it have to be a dress? *Chanting* SUIT, SUIT, SUIT, SUIT. Could find a "women's" (blegh) one that isn't too feminine in cut. Or: I don't know what size you are but I'm quite small and I buy clothes including formal stuff from the teen boys section. Just suit. All genders look good in suit. Suit. I'm starting to think that @Celyn really likes suits... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Life With Masks Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 7 hours ago, Celyn said: Does it have to be a dress? *Chanting* SUIT, SUIT, SUIT, SUIT. Could find a "women's" (blegh) one that isn't too feminine in cut. Or: I don't know what size you are but I'm quite small and I buy clothes including formal stuff from the teen boys section. Just suit. All genders look good in suit. Suit. I agree. All genders look the best in suits. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Life With Masks Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 8 hours ago, QuirkyGeek said: Anyone have any tips for formal outfits for closeted enbies? I need one, but I often experience dysphoria with most dresses. I saw the binder dress link which looked really cool but they seemed to have limited options that just weren't my style. Why not dress the binder and the dress separately? Am I suggesting something impossible? (I have never dressed dresses) This might seem like complete nonsense but truly I always perceived your avatar as a squid, now when I look closer it's actually a cat... what in the world. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SeeYa Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 2 hours ago, Life With Masks said: I agree. All genders look the best in suits. I think I may be an exception to that rule. I always look incredibly weird in formal outfits. They just don't suit me at all (heh). 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
QuirkyGeek Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 13 hours ago, Life With Masks said: Why not dress the binder and the dress separately? Am I suggesting something impossible? (I have never dressed dresses) This might seem like complete nonsense but truly I always perceived your avatar as a squid, now when I look closer it's actually a cat... what in the world. The problem with that is I don't actually own a binder and don't think I can get one. And yes, I am a cat from out of this world. I might try a suit. We'll see. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
no-longer-in-use Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 5 hours ago, QuirkyGeek said: The problem with that is I don't actually own a binder and don't think I can get one. If the problem is your parents, there's a method I used to get a binder secretly. I can tell you what I did if you want. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.