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2 hours ago, Mezzo Forte said:

looking visibly queer as a man. I guess there's some security in being cis/straight-passing as I can avoid unwanted judgement to some extent.

I get this too I look like a little boy when I wear masculine cloths.  and there is always that awkward moment when somine does a double take ( this girl actually had to make sure she was in the girls restroom by rechecking the sign outside 😁) cuz I’m a wee little fella there is always the slight fear of something going sideways a bit. I just get paranoid a bit especially since I was in the ladies section. I hate feeling like people are antsy around me.

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27 minutes ago, SkyWorld said:

Honestly, one of the major things I worried about top surgery is the scars, but some trans guys scars have healed super well and can barely the scars, if even at all. So I’d have to take super care of my body.

If anyone in your family has surgical scars, that can be a potential way to gauge the genetic component of scar development. I had peri, so the scarring is minimal, but I don't think my scars would have been too terrible even if I had DI. If you do get DI, scar tape will be your best friend.

 

In regards to the muscle, that might make it easier for the surgeon to contour the chest, but a good surgeon will know what they're doing even if the person does not have a lot of chest muscle. Honestly, I wanted results that would look good regardless of how much muscle I had on my chest because I just don't have the drive to get into bodybuilding. My chest looks pretty solid too even without a lick of muscle :P

 

17 minutes ago, :)(: said:

I get this too I look like a little boy when I wear masculine cloths.  and there is always that awkward moment when somine does a double take ( this girl actually had to make sure she was in the girls restroom by rechecking the sign outside 😁) cuz I’m a wee little fella there is always the slight fear of something going sideways a bit. I just get paranoid a bit especially since I was in the ladies section. I hate feeling like people are antsy around me.

I know what that's like, having people get antsy and awkward around you. Happened a lot when I was at my most androgynous, though admittedly, the most entertaining situation where that happened was by the time I was very visibly male and I ran into my friend's sister. (My friend's whole family disapproved of my transition, apparently said things so terrible that my friend refuses to ever let such vile things come out of his mouth, even in quotes.) His sister was with a friend, so I introduced myself using my chosen name. You could feel her discomfort. :P

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19 minutes ago, Mezzo Forte said:

If anyone in your family has surgical scars, that can be a potential way to gauge the genetic component of scar development. I had peri, so the scarring is minimal, but I don't think my scars would have been too terrible even if I had DI. If you do get DI, scar tape will be your best friend.

 

In regards to the muscle, that might make it easier for the surgeon to contour the chest, but a good surgeon will know what they're doing even if the person does not have a lot of chest muscle. Honestly, I wanted results that would look good regardless of how much muscle I had on my chest because I just don't have the drive to get into bodybuilding. My chest looks pretty solid too even without a lick of muscle :P

Really good to know, thank you for telling me that! Looking more into it, it seems like with my chest size, I may need to go with DI. I still want to build up more muscle to get more lean and just be healhier in general. I also plan in learning self defense, specifially Krav Maga. Don’t know how much fat would be burned in the chest area to be small enough. I don’t think I should get my hopes up with such a thing, although my chest luckily didn’t end up as big as my mom or grandma, it’s still probably not going to get much smaller... It’s a little difficult going with genetics because not only am I mixed, but also very disconnected with my family to make any educated guesses. I could still still ask, my best bet would be my mom. Actually, thinking about it, she did have a c-section. Though last time I brought up top surgery, she was repulsed by the idea. Sure she has come around since then, but I’m not so sure how she’d react.

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15 minutes ago, SkyWorld said:

Really good to know, thank you for telling me that! Looking more into it, it seems like with my chest size, I may need to go with DI. I still want to build up more muscle to get more lean and just be healhier in general. I also plan in learning self defense, specifially Krav Maga. Don’t know how much fat would be burned in the chest area to be small enough. I don’t think I should get my hopes up with such a thing, although my chest luckily didn’t end up as big as my mom or grandma, it’s still probably not going to get much smaller... It’s a little difficult going with genetics because not only am I mixed, but also very disconnected with my family to make any educated guesses. I could still still ask, my best bet would be my mom. Actually, thinking about it, she did have a c-section. Though last time I brought up top surgery, she was repulsed by the idea. Sure she has come around since then, but I’m not so sure how she’d react.

It won't be much, but there is some fat redistribution that may slightly reduce the size of the chest. Tends to make the chest a bit easier to bind actually. Pretty sure weight loss helped a bit with my chest too; my photos from 2013/mid-2014 are quite unnerving to look at with how prominent my chest was. My weight loss was actually what made me realize I was experiencing chest dysphoria, because I realized that no amount of weight loss was going to get my chest flat enough for me to be happy. That said, I would never recommend that anyone pull the stunt I pulled, losing 27% of my body weight over the course of 2 years out of sheer stress. That was just unhealthy.

 

I feel like I remember some of your commentary about being mixed, so forgive me if I'm remembering, but if you have some African heritage, then you're at higher risk for keloid scars. Genetics are a good indicator of whether or not you keloid though. Also, from what I've seen on a top surgery Facebook group, the black people who had top surgery had to wait a while before their nipples started looking like they were pigmenting right, so that might require some extra patience as well depending.

 

As far as asking to see your mom's scars, you might not even need to mention top surgery. Perhaps you could just say that you want to know how you might scar should anything ever happen. Or heck, a friend of mine got a massive keloid when he tried to get a cartilage piercing, so maybe it's good to know for reasons like that.

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I like it when I watching tv shows with female characters my mind just wanders of,  and I start to day dream about how I should be in that situation. 

 

But anyway I ordered some clothes yesterday, a pair of black jeggings and a red plaid shirt ( okay that one is in male size but still)  it is one of the styles that I have fallen in love with. 

 

I want to be a mom someday, but what sane women would want to be near me? Some loser that even is to afraid to take the first step. 

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26 minutes ago, Mezzo Forte said:

It won't be much, but there is some fat redistribution that may slightly reduce the size of the chest. Tends to make the chest a bit easier to bind actually. Pretty sure weight loss helped a bit with my chest too; my photos from 2013/mid-2014 are quite unnerving to look at with how prominent my chest was. My weight loss was actually what made me realize I was experiencing chest dysphoria, because I realized that no amount of weight loss was going to get my chest flat enough for me to be happy. That said, I would never recommend that anyone pull the stunt I pulled, losing 27% of my body weight over the course of 2 years out of sheer stress. That was just unhealthy.

 

I feel like I remember some of your commentary about being mixed, so forgive me if I'm remembering, but if you have some African heritage, then you're at higher risk for keloid scars. Genetics are a good indicator of whether or not you keloid though. Also, from what I've seen on a top surgery Facebook group, the black people who had top surgery had to wait a while before their nipples started looking like they were pigmenting right, so that might require some extra patience as well depending.

 

As far as asking to see your mom's scars, you might not even need to mention top surgery. Perhaps you could just say that you want to know how you might scar should anything ever happen. Or heck, a friend of mine got a massive keloid when he tried to get a cartilage piercing, so maybe it's good to know for reasons like that.

I was just about to mention how much I appreciate how much information and advice you’re giving me and how helpful it really is. Thank you! 

 

I’m about 1/4 African American, give or take (hard to tell because my mom and bio-father is also mixed). Along with Filipino, Native American, and White. I’m surprised I didn’t notice that about keloids. Not sure if it might be a general indicator of what the top surgery scars would look like on me, but my biggest scars I have right now is when I had busted my head about 8 years ago with 6 stitches. You can barely see it, but it’s there. 

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butterflydreams

Quick question...I’ve been chatting with a seemingly nice guy online and the trans issue came up. He brought it up, not me. He seemed to have a good grasp of what it meant, telling me I’m always female, it’s just my body that’s messed up. But then he asked if I was pre or post op. I normally don’t like this question. What should I do?

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26 minutes ago, butterflydreams said:

Quick question...I’ve been chatting with a seemingly nice guy online and the trans issue came up. He brought it up, not me. He seemed to have a good grasp of what it meant, telling me I’m always female, it’s just my body that’s messed up. But then he asked if I was pre or post op. I normally don’t like this question. What should I do?

You don't ever have to answer any question you are not comfortable with.

You could tell him you think it's not important/relevant, because you are who you are, regardless of any physical features? 

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22 minutes ago, butterflydreams said:

Quick question...I’ve been chatting with a seemingly nice guy online and the trans issue came up. He brought it up, not me. He seemed to have a good grasp of what it meant, telling me I’m always female, it’s just my body that’s messed up. But then he asked if I was pre or post op. I normally don’t like this question. What should I do?

What do you feel like? 

Why would pre/post-op really matter? (Are you seen as a person or as genitalia?)

Have you seen the guy?

How safe do you feel?

How long do you know this person?

 

(Don't have to answer me these here :P, it's for yourself)

 

I don't know, chaser maybe? Why would a cisguy know so much trans stuff? Hmmmmm ._.

 

I'm sorry I'm maybe being too paranoid too...

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4 hours ago, Kimmie. said:

Some loser that even is to afraid to take the first step. 

Did you think of it this way yet?

 

What is more frightening, never setting that first step. Or setting it now?

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21 minutes ago, Phoenix the II said:

Did you think of it this way yet?

 

What is more frightening, never setting that first step. Or setting it now?

I can't answer that sorry.:(

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4 hours ago, Kimmie. said:

I like it when I watching tv shows with female characters my mind just wanders of,  and I start to day dream about how I should be in that situation. 

 

But anyway I ordered some clothes yesterday, a pair of black jeggings and a red plaid shirt ( okay that one is in male size but still)  it is one of the styles that I have fallen in love with. 

 

I want to be a mom someday, but what sane women would want to be near me? Some loser that even is to afraid to take the first step. 

I see that dress

I want that dress

I can wear it

But i don’t make steps towards the dress to wear it

What if i would wear it? Or wouldn’t wear it?

 

Kimmie you’re asking yourself too many questions! It only takes a few steps to the wardrobe to take the dress and wear it. You can spend many more years debating if it would be a perfect fit or not or just wear it.

 

The choice is yours alone. Sweetie, don’t let the wat ifs and what ands keep you from making your way to that dress! 

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59 minutes ago, butterflydreams said:

Quick question...I’ve been chatting with a seemingly nice guy online and the trans issue came up. He brought it up, not me. He seemed to have a good grasp of what it meant, telling me I’m always female, it’s just my body that’s messed up. But then he asked if I was pre or post op. I normally don’t like this question. What should I do?

I would say that I’m pre-op if i felt somewhat trusting in the person. Otherwise I would either say “it’s not something I need to answer right now” or “I don’t want to answer” or “ why does it matter or are you just curious? I think it’s important to have discretion in this topic. It doesn’t matter except for sexual compatability and so it can be intrusive to ask, outside of dating a person... and so even tho it doesn’t bother me, on principle I don’t share that info if it isn’t necessary.”

 

 

or something. Idk I haven’t been in such a situation... I might be more discrete or casual about asking why, and if they cared about my genitalia parts on the prospect of dating, say “I don’t really value sex as the key aspect of a relationship, and since you do, we wouldn’t be compatible. You’d need more sex and I’d need less. Sorry” otherwise say “well you don’t need to know so don’t ask.”

 

 

Or something. 

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30 minutes ago, Phoenix the II said:

)

 

I don't know, chaser maybe? Why would a cisguy know so much trans stuff? Hmmmmm ._.

 

Maybe chaser, maybe vis/ed :) maybe he knows trans/nb people, maybe he is clever. It isn’t uncommon to know that trans people op, imo. It’s just usually people don’t know how to ask, or are uninterested/don’t wanna know, or realize it’s a weird question to ask. I think. I reason myself into believing. I have no evidence otherwise. 

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@Kimmie. when I’m on my own I wear what I want. :D

 

I usually dress androgynous outside cause I’m not ready to take the risk of criticism. :( idk if that’s even a reasonable fear but it’s one I need to accept for the time being. Part of it was anxiety but that’s less of the reason anymore. 

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1 minute ago, float on said:

@Kimmie. when I’m on my own I wear what I want. :D

 

I usually dress androgynous outside cause I’m not ready to take the risk of criticism. :( idk if that’s even a reasonable fear but it’s one I need to accept for the time being. Part of it was anxiety but that’s less of the reason anymore. 

I've been outside shopping with my male clothes but with my wig on... And my rainbow pastel colored shawl around my neck... 

 

I must probably look pretty wtf... But Meh, screw these people.. xD I feel better... (still anxious too)

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When I am home i use to when I am confident enough, wear female clothes and things underneath. I don't wear dresses anymore because I look l shit in them.

 

And wow Phoenix i get more impressed by you, by every post you make. 

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9 minutes ago, Kimmie. said:

When I am home i use to when I am confident enough, wear female clothes and things underneath. I don't wear dresses anymore because I look l shit in them.

 

And wow Phoenix i get more impressed by you, by every post you make. 

Go, impress yourself! Just drive off to another town, and go out as you! No one knows you there :)

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9 minutes ago, Phoenix the II said:

Go, impress yourself! Just drive off to another town, and go out as you! No one knows you there :)

That is not a bad idea:) Okay now i can't get that idea out of my head. Okay maybe not to another town but atleast go for a walk in the woods maybe? Have to wait for spring or atleast until it gets a bit warmer. Becuse now the only difference would be pants. 

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5 hours ago, Kimmie. said:

want to be a mom someday, but what sane women would want to be near me? Some loser that even is to afraid to take the first step. 

I don’t think you are a loser I think that some ppl just get hurt more easily. Anyway something you could look into is finding a surrogate. It cost a lot but it cuts through all the emotional drama. 

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8 minutes ago, :)(: said:

I don’t think you are a loser I think that some ppl just get hurt more easily. Anyway something you could look into is finding a surrogate. It cost a lot but it cuts through all the emotional drama. 

And it is illegal, it is seen as human trafficking. 

And I don't want to be a single mom i want a partner. 

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Quick question...I’ve been chatting with a seemingly nice guy online and the trans issue came up. He brought it up, not me. He seemed to have a good grasp of what it meant, telling me I’m always female, it’s just my body that’s messed up. But then he asked if I was pre or post op. I normally don’t like this question. What should I do?

That's basically a "nicer" way of asking what your equipment is, which I'm sure you're aware of, so I'll cut to the chase:

 

You know how people around here always advise disclosing your asexuality right away whenever the idea of sex (or a potential long-term relationship) comes up?

 

To me this is one of those same sorts of things, so if you would agree with all the people who advocate that sort of thing toward asexuals, I don't see how this is very much different.  Just as people here wouldn't advise potentially wasting the time of someone who ultimately just wouldn't be into someone who's asexual, by that same logic you might as well not waste the time of someone who just wouldn't be interested in what you're packing.

 

Sucks, but this is just the sort of thing that's going to come with the territory when it comes to relationships with sexual people.  Some of them might be able to look past the equipment you have even if it would normally go against their orientation, but ultimately I don't think most of them are able to.  (I don't really buy that whole "everyone is at least a little bi" stuff.)

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I do agree and support the message of up-front disclusure; but I think a critical nuance to remember for some folks is to be honest with your comfort. It isn't good to keep a secret for very long, but it is perfectly okay to take a few meets/conversations before being brave enough, or setting a certain goal for "this is when I'd disclose" such as for the ace "if we go on a date and I feel like I like them enough, when I realize this I'll look for a way and bring up my orientation, during the first date." 

 

and it's perfectly healthy to give a boundary of dsclosure. "I'm don't appreciate the question right now and if it's a deal breaker either way then let's just not go forward. I ain't gonna tell you what I've got done in my transition nor what I plan on doing right now, because you're still too new to me, I don't feel comfortable talking about it right now." 

 

or something. IDK. I don't have experience so I just talk too much in anticipation, practice, IDK. 

 

but the point is - early disclosure is half the reality. your own comfort and limitations the other. If your need to be self-secure with personal info is a deal-breaker for them, then screw them they're a shit match ;) Telling someone that you can't tell them the full truth is a good way to meet their curiosity halfway. It ain't lying if they know they don't know, because you don't wanna tell them. If they need to know and you need to not tell, default to the "not" half of the conflict. it's more intrusive on someone to expose themselves than it is for someone to miss out. 

 

ps. also, if they make assumptions based on your response, so be it. what they think whether or not it is true, isn't actually true until you confirm or deny it. I know that if I need to when revealing something, I will say "on principal this is something I would not reveal either way of its truth, and additionally either way whether I was comfortable or not to disclose it." and there are some things, in some situations, that I will say this for.

 

pps. There are other ways of diffusing curiosity without telling too, such as "you don't need to know" or "it doesn't matter" or even just changing the topic or ignoring the person, depending on the context of the situation. in the scenario at hand tho, IDK exactly what is best. I'm only just rambling about the topic in general. 

 

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5 hours ago, SkyWorld said:

I was just about to mention how much I appreciate how much information and advice you’re giving me and how helpful it really is. Thank you! 

 

I’m about 1/4 African American, give or take (hard to tell because my mom and bio-father is also mixed). Along with Filipino, Native American, and White. I’m surprised I didn’t notice that about keloids. Not sure if it might be a general indicator of what the top surgery scars would look like on me, but my biggest scars I have right now is when I had busted my head about 8 years ago with 6 stitches. You can barely see it, but it’s there. 

Always glad to help. I happen to enjoy being an educator, and my mentor instinct often carries over outside of the classroom. :) 

 

I think if your stitches didn't keloid, you probably won't need to worry about that happening to your top surgery scars. The fact that you already have a surgical scar already gives you some indication of how things will go, especially in regards to coloration. Heck the scar you have now would likely be more prominent than your DI scars because top surgeons are typically trained in plastic surgery, which places special emphasis on making the scar look okay, not to mention that you might be more persistent with scar care for this procedure compared to the other.

 

Another thing to know is that one post-op photo rarely captures the full spectrum of how a scar can look. I think being overheated can make the scar look more visible for example. Also, know that scars develop in stages. There's some point maybe two months in where they may look like they're getting worse, but that's just the scars entering a new development stage. Stay adamant with the scar care, and they'll eventually start fading. (I honestly forget when my scars became more white than red, but I remember it taking a while. I'm nearing 3 months post-hysto and those scars are definitely in their red phase.)

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Calligraphette_Coe
3 hours ago, butterflydreams said:

Quick question...I’ve been chatting with a seemingly nice guy online and the trans issue came up. He brought it up, not me. He seemed to have a good grasp of what it meant, telling me I’m always female, it’s just my body that’s messed up. But then he asked if I was pre or post op. I normally don’t like this question. What should I do?

Here I  go again, rushing in where angels fear to tread. I just often feel I'm offending you when I do things like this, but..... here I go again.

 

I think you need to search your reality and find out how the property of emergence applies to you. Too, find those domains of applicability in that emergence.

 

So what am I talking about?

 

Consider Vincent Van Gogh's painting Starry Night . On one level, it's just a canvas with pigments applied, and below that it's just a collection of atoms. No different from one I created by flicking a paint bursh saturated in paint at a blank canvas. Neither I or Vincent infused our respective paintings with any provably real spiritual energy. Yet, his has emergence while mine does not. 

 

Why is that? Could it be that Vincent's _emerges_ from the canvas with a tide of feeling and emotion as if the moon itself were pulling on the heartstrings of the viewer? We talk about about the swirling stars, the mood it invokes, maybe even point out that it was created during Vincent's period of being in a mental asylum.

 

Quote
Starry,Starry night
Flaming flo'rs that brightly blaze
Swirling clouds in violet haze reflect in
Vincent's eyes of China blue.

Colors changing hue
Morning fields of amber grain
Weathered faces lined in pain
Are soothed beneath the artist's
Loving hand.

THIS is emergence writ large.

 

His was not just atoms of paint on a canvas. It was not a random convergence of matter. We give our atoms a life of their own, our own. Our atoms are not alive, but we are. Animals are conscious, even though their cells are not and even though they may not have the sentience that we do. (On the other hand, if you look deep into an oragantan's eyes who is being made fun of in a cage, you can sense his sadness.)

 

I believe with all my heart that our gender-bourne sexuality has emergence. That its domain of applicability extends far beyond just the biological, far beyond the shape of a sex organ. And an SRS surgeon may give you the canvas, the paints and feelings you evoke from your partner come from the emergence of your femininity, like lotus flower of a million petals opening to seek the sun.

 

Quote
And now I understand what you tried to say to me
How you suffered for your sanity
How you tried to set them free.
Perhaps they'll listen now.
 
For they could not love you
But still your love was true
And when no hope was left in sight on that starry
Starry night.
You took your life
As lovers often do;
But I could have told you
Vincent
This world was never
Meant for one
As beautiful as you.

We don't have to do as Vincent did to find our own emergence. We just have to know our domains of applicability. We have to allow ourselves to see beyond the physical.

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