TransWhatevers of AVEN

[Emery.]

I really wonder... some people say their chests grow in 20s? Damn, I'm 22 this year. I feel so old  I mean, I feel young in the spirit, this 22 seems so abstract. 

 

Well, I don't know if I fit the traditional narrative or not. I had some traditionally boyish pursuits as a kid, and still do. I was a too active kid to wear dresses, that was just too impractical. But it's not like I didn't wear dresses because they were for girls. I liked my long hair too. I wasn't into dolls, but I liked being pretty. I think it still sums me up in a way. I'm bi, but I dated boys. And I certainly didn't say I'm a boy as a toddler. I didn't give it much thought to be honest. 

 

Oh, great. There is "science". It's a mirror reflecrion of the "science" about MtF. There is childhood onset gender dysphoria (the stereotypical narrative) and autogynephilia/autoandrophilia/autohomoerotic variation. We're gays or perverts. :S And there is apparently PTSD after sexual assault and dysmorphhobia. 

 

Update time.

 

I had the aim last year to fix my gender expression, like interests, and I can happily say I did it. I'm no longer short of computer games and knowledge on politics. I found it very helpful. Moreover, what I didn't plan, I made my attempt at being a lesbian and became better with clothes, and also made up my mind on the medical side of things a bit more. 

 

I think I need to have a talk with everyone... parents, friends. The school is the worst, you know. I have to talk about everything. The name, the clothes, the dysphoria, the gayness. I just feel like... there was so much left unsaid, but the anwsers come just with time. I feel like I dailed, but I will back off with the name. Maybe a better time will come for this. But I changed my mind on this as well. I think. The name is like... whatever. It doesn't matter what I'm called.

Edited February 20, 2018 by Kisa the Kit Kat
merged

[:)(:]

@Mezzo Forte and really anyone else that takes T. I know that a lot of ppl prefer to use the injections but wouldn’t the creams be better ? Also what is the specific name of T you used called ?

[butterflydreams]

I'm wondering if it's hard for me to hear how feminine my own voice is just like it's hard to see how feminine I look.

 

Here's a sample of me reading some article online. What do you all think?

 

https://soundcloud.com/hadleyn/voicetest/

 

[Gentle Giant]

@butterflydreams It was hard to catch everything you said because you were going so fast, but your voice sounds very nice!

[butterflydreams]

Thanks, @Gentle Giant! I’m not very good at reading aloud. Maybe I should practice pacing myself and trying to speak more slowly.

[daveb]

Definitely sounds more feminine than masculine. Based on just that I would think anyone would say it's a woman speaking.

[Starbogen]

@butterflydreams It definitely sounds more female than male to me. I wouldn't guess it was a man at all, particularly the more I heard you talk. You were just going really fast so that made it sound more mumbly.. I think it sounds more feminine when you're clearer and in those moments when you go more up and down with your voice. 

 

That's the best voice tip I've learned.. More flatness sounds more masc and more sing-songiness sounds more fem.

 

Also not related but I like that picture of you, looks cute!

[:)(:]

5 minutes ago, Starbogen said:

That's the best voice tip I've learned.. More flatness sounds more masc and more sing-songiness sounds more fem.

Yep.

 

I second this also having a lot of passion and expression makes you sound feminine. 

[Heart]

On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 11:42 PM, Mezzo Forte said:

The Harvard conference was simply beyond words. @Heart, you were so right about how invigorating these kinds of events can be. I'm still riding a kind of performance high while I'm sitting in the airport trying to put together lecture slides for my classes. Everyone really took to my presentation well, and several people approached me with very sincere thanks for speaking about these matters. This entire conference was just so goddamn rad that I don't even know how to process all of this. The connections I made this weekend are absolutely amazing, and I'm starting to find this larger community of people involved in trans musician scholarship/advocacy that I simply didn't have access to before. This project might really grow into something substantial

As usual, I'm sillily behind in life, but I'm here and catching up slowly

 

I'm so glad it was everything for you that these kinds of things are for me! I got your PM, and I'll look at it when I'm at a computer with speaker, I'm so EXCITED

 

I really hope it does grow into something substantial. I think there are several lifetime's worth of research to put into this, and I hope people find the motivation and sense of purpose to do it. The scientist in me is just so aware of how little we as a species really understand ourselves. Not in a bad way necessarily, I just.. I'm curious! I want all the answers and I want them now

 

On ‎2‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 4:13 PM, :)(: said:

For a MTF transition what hormones do you take ? Is it just estrogen ?

You'll need to block the testosterone as well. Estrogen is the hormone you'll need, but you'll also need anti-androgens, which block the existing testosterone in your system or the estrogen won't have as big an effect. Testosterone trumps estrogen, by my understanding, so it needs to be "blocked" as well  

 

 

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 10:24 AM, Mezzo Forte said:

Ever since that conference, I've met so many trans musicians and scholars who work with trans musicians that it's almost dizzying. I actually had to make a Facebook group to keep track of all the people who wanted to get involved in my research. I now have a really cool collaborative project in the works with one of the people I met, and we're hoping to submit something for the Transgender Voices Festival and the Philly Trans Wellness Conference. I'm also looking to potentially put together something for the Percussive Arts Society International Convention too.

 

On a similar note though, I'm thinking about also making a submission about Asexuality and HRT for the Philly Trans Wellness Conference. So many people ask about asexuality and testosterone in particular that I think it'd be nice to put something out there for the conference. (However, I'd love to give stories about AMAB ace/formerly ace-identified trans people as well.) I'm thinking that as well as speaking on my own behalf, there's definitely people on here who would want to speak of their own experiences, and I could use my background conducting research interviews to share those stories as well.

 

No guarantees any of this will pan out, but I will admit that this work I'm doing has caught the interest of so many more people than any of my previous work ever has, and the enthusiasm is contagious

...*puts self on the list to have the results shared with if possible again * 

 

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 12:05 PM, Starbogen said:

@Kimmie. Okay I think this one should work! So yeah anyway, if the photobucket one didn't work for anyone else then here you go. 

 

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Looking amazing!

 

On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 3:34 AM, Emery. said:

Okay so I passed all mt exams and have a really long and well deserved break now  I can quit exam mode and live now  But sleep first. 

 

P.s. No exams next term  really. Only subjects without exams.

Wow, I'm jealous. I don't think I've ever taken a course without an exam. I mean, even my lab courses had exams! They were practical exams of course, but still exams. Enjoy!!

 

On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 5:41 AM, Emery. said:

Rant time. I've been wondering about bisexuality in general. There are people who are bi but predominantly straight, for sure. I think I'm not one of them, but I used to think I do. Then there are the people who are bi but predominantly gay. And there are two ways I can see someone being in the middle: either as a mixture of the first two subtypes or because their criteria of sexual attraction don't depend on the sex of the person they are into. I'm not sure in which of those three categories I fall. It might be stupid but... I wonder if I "made myself gay"? I was quite uncomfortable with  being straight, straight dating sucks. Even if you self-identify as bi and only date he opposite sex, it makes people treat you differently, it makes them more respectful of your gender nonconformity. It certainly shouldn't be like that, but go figure...

Hmmmm.... my biromanticism is definitely the second  type of bi-ness, the one where my attractions don't depend on the sex or gender of the person I'm into. I wouldn't be surprised if this were a more common "type" of biromanticism, and if it were more common in bisexuality to be the first, where your attractions are a "superposition" of gay and straight. I've heard some bisexuals describe their attraction to all genders as being more of an "I appreciate the different aesthetics in different ways" thing. Like, they are attracted to femininity because it looks pretty and masculinity because it looks handsome, if that makes sense? It's like how one person can like two very different genres of music for different reasons. But I wouldn't be surprised at all if there were a spectrum of bisexuals and biromantics who are on either end and between those two "types". It's interesting to think about!

 

On ‎2‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 10:53 AM, butterflydreams said:

@Phoenix the II sorry to hear about the HRT speed bump. I get why the RLE thing exists, but it often comes across as more of a test of your tolerance to getting attacked and ridiculed. Most people won't pass at all without HRT, so to force someone to try to do so to "prove" they're serious is just cruel in my opinion. On the other hand, HRT is pretty serious, so I'm sure they want to have some assurance that it's right for you and you'll stick with it. Too bad there isn't a better way. I was a fan of how it worked for me. They made me jump through a minimum of hoops to get it. Someone who wasn't serious probably wouldn't have bothered, but anyone serious about it would've been able to jump through them pretty easily. Just a matter of keeping appointments, going to them, filling out paperwork and showing a commitment over several months. Not that hard to do, but would weed out people who were on the fence about it.

 

I went skiing today...by myself like always. So I had a lot of time to think. And I thought about how the bottom line is that I just don't pass well enough. I don't know why, I just don't. Not going to put myself through r/transpassing again, but they've made it very clear to me twice, on what I thought were some of my best pictures. I think that no guy is ever going to want to be with me because I don't pass. It's heartbreaking. I don't know what to do. Do I just wait longer?

 

Here's a random picture of me from a few days ago. Hair is not really on point. I'm not smiling. Just an average every day picture. I'm not sure what I see in it. A woman? I don't know. Not really. A guy? Not really that either. So what am I?

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You are a woman on her way to living her genuine life. It may still be a journey, but you've come a long way. Don't forget every once in a while to look back too, and remember where you started. It can be too easy to always look forward and be intimidated by the distance yet to come. Remember to reward yourself as much as possible with some level of triumph. You're on a long journey, and I'm sorry that it's been so tough  

 

 

 

...aaaand that's the end of page 1056. Only three more to go before I'm up to date. You guys are all so awesome and active, I love it  

[:)(:]

56 minutes ago, Heart said:

You guys are all so awesome and active, I love it

You sound like an AVEN mom pleased that her children are running about happily 

[Kimmie.]

I feel like such a asshole. I read everywhere how disgusting i am, To say that i am not a man. That i am barging in on women safespaces. That i am by saying who i am is only destroying everything that women have fought trough the ages. That just by existing i am a threath to equality.

I know that i am week for letting this affect me.

[butterflydreams]

3 hours ago, Kimmie. said:

I feel like such a asshole. I read everywhere how disgusting i am, To say that i am not a man. That i am barging in on women safespaces. That i am by saying who i am is only destroying everything that women have fought trough the ages. That just by existing i am a threath to equality.

I know that i am week for letting this affect me.

No. Fuck this. You know it’s bullshit. I could go on and on about this but I think you know you’re not doing anything wrong by being the woman you are. I know it’s tough to read radfem bullshit, but just tune it out. It’s a bunch of traditionalist, misandrist, Victorian era nonsense. There is nothing wrong with you being who you are. I can’t repeat that strongly enough. *hugs*

 

Oh, and thanks everyone for the comments and tips about my voice. I think it came out fast and mumbly because I was trying to read some article online. I needed something to read. I have a new app on my phone that tracks your pitch in a way that’s easy to use for vocal training. I’m planning to practice a little bit every day to really get my voice to the right place.

[Kimmie.]

@butterflydreams Thanks *hugs* 

What they are saying is that woman/man should only say what you have between your legs, and that transpeople are wrecking everything that women have bulid up. And that it is up to cis-women to label you. You or me cant do that because that is degrading to women for some reason.

 

All of this comes from a debate i have been folowing on a local news site , that started with a women that call her self a left feminist (she has a name but i cant remembber it) that was pissed that the UN had said that we probably should stop saying pregnant women and start to say pregnant human instead. She saw this as men trying to take away the things that women have had for them self. And then it just exploded.

 

........

 

I need to remember myself to listing to your recording.

[Mezzo Forte]

17 hours ago, :)(: said:

@Mezzo Forte and really anyone else that takes T. I know that a lot of ppl prefer to use the injections but wouldn’t the creams be better ? Also what is the specific name of T you used called ?

Injection is the most common because it's the cheapest method to go with, and it's also sometimes the only method that's covered by insurance. My insurance definitely doesn't cover gels. My doc believes that injection is the most effective route, but she never went into why.

 

The one thing that's tricky about gels is figuring out the proper dosage, because everybody's skin absorbs the stuff a little differently. There're also risk of transferral if anyone else touches the gel on your body before it dries. That said, gels keep the hormone levels far more consistent than injections, as applying the stuff daily pretty much prevents peaks and troughs. Personally, if not for the proper dosage concerns, I suspect gels might be better for starting people on T than injection, especially in regards to making sure the voice develops okay, but I do not know for sure.

 

I personally use Testosterone Cypionate, intramuscular injections every other week. I don't have noticeable swings with the peaks/troughs, so I handle biweekly injection about as well as anyone could. Honestly, I've found ways to stockpile a larger supply of the stuff, so even if I got prescribed gels, I wouldn't be able to switch for a while. The shot songs help make the process easier, but sometimes, I think it'd be nice to switch to gels. Only thing that concerns me is that I feel like if I made the switch to daily gels, going back to shots every other week would make the peaks/troughs more noticeable.

[butterflydreams]

55 minutes ago, Kimmie. said:

What they are saying is that woman/man should only say what you have between your legs, and that transpeople are wrecking everything that women have bulid up. And that it is up to cis-women to label you. You or men cant do that because that is degrading to women for some reason.

Sounds to me like women wanting special privileges above and beyond what normal people get, not equality. Radfems are notorious for this. Women should have segregated spaces from “men” including trans women, but men don’t deserve the same segregated spaces from women. Like I said, it’s Victorian era nonsense. It’s also pretty regressive in a “protect the poor helpless women” kind of context. Pay it no mind.

 

12 minutes ago, Mezzo Forte said:

The one thing that's tricky about gels is figuring out the proper dosage, because everybody's skin absorbs the stuff a little differently

It’s funny, because I use topically applied patches for hormone delivery. I guess that’s different because the patch is a known quantity and delivery rate. I’ve been pretty happy with the transdermal route so far, though sometimes the patches can be annoying. I always have to be conscious of where they are on my body so I don’t accidentally sleep funny and rub them off. They stick pretty well, but sometimes they just end up rubbing off. That’s the only annoying part. Transdermal is a lot safer and easier on the body as well.

[Mezzo Forte]

@Heart I enjoy your enthusiasm so much.  

 

Part of the joy of research is formalizing and filling in the knowledge gaps of the world, and there's definitely far more than a lifetime's worth of research areas to explore, even just within the category of trans musicians. Part of my hope is that these projects encourage others to pursue this kind of research too. The Harvard conference felt so unreal that I sometimes wonder if it really happened.  

 

I did end up making two submissions for the Philly Trans Wellness Conference: one about Asexuality and HRT; the other about using music performance to combat dysphoria. I'm working on connecting myself with trained music therapists and other specialists in arts and medicine to help make the latter one possible. The planned collaboration had to get put on the back burner because the other person was advised by a doctor to get their stress levels down, but we may do something together in the future. I have plans for projects that would be more visibility/advocacy within more of music circles too, but they're a bit more distant at the moment.

[Mezzo Forte]

1 minute ago, butterflydreams said:

It’s funny, because I use topically applied patches for hormone delivery. I guess that’s different because the patch is a known quantity and delivery rate. I’ve been pretty happy with the transdermal route so far, though sometimes the patches can be annoying. I always have to be conscious of where they are on my body so I don’t accidentally sleep funny and rub them off. They stick pretty well, but sometimes they just end up rubbing off. That’s the only annoying part. Transdermal is a lot safer and easier on the body as well.

I feel like patches are an option for testosterone but I don't think I've ever heard of anyone actually using that method. Seems quite common for estrogen therapy though, as I know plenty of cis women who have used estrogen patches for quite some time. For me personally, my mild allergy to adhesive makes me suspect that I wouldn't take to patches well. I'm actually very curious about subcutaneous pellets though, especially as an option to use during field research. Wish more doctors knew of that method though.

[Starbogen]

@Heart Thank you!

 

@butterflydreams Is it Voice Pitch Analyzer? I don't remember where I heard of that one but I've used it some times and it registered my voice as male and it was great.

[butterflydreams]

Just now, Starbogen said:

@butterflydreams Is it Voice Pitch Analyzer? I don't remember where I heard of that one but I've used it some times and it registered my voice as male and it was great.

No, the app I use is called Sonneta Voice Monitor. It was 35USD, so not cheap as far as apps go, but it was recommended as what professional voice therapists use. The good part is it lets you record your voice so you can play it back, and it analyzes it for you, giving you an average pitch as well as real time pitch and sound pressure data. I have a decent microphone I’m using with it, but so far I’m very pleased. Worth the money to see how bad (or well) I’m actually doing.

[Emery.]

15 hours ago, butterflydreams said:

I'm wondering if it's hard for me to hear how feminine my own voice is just like it's hard to see how feminine I look.

 

Here's a sample of me reading some article online. What do you all think?

 

https://soundcloud.com/hadleyn/voicetest/

 

I’d say... I have a shadow of doubt when I hear your voice, but it’s not just trans women that have such voices and I wouldn’t say you sound like a man, androgynous at worst. In my opinion you may sound just over 30. And definitely more feminine than what I remember from the previous recording. I also agree with Starbogen that later on in the clearer part you sound definitely like a woman and that the flatness (and nasal speaking(?) ) in the beginning makes you sound more androgynous. 

 

I just don’t get it. I don’t know if I’m on the masculie side or gender fluid or what? My feelings don’t make any sense. In general, I identify with men more. But some days I feel like dressing extremely masculine and on others extremely feminine. Not to speak of my sexual orientation and my attitude to sex being all over the place too. 

[Starbogen]

17 minutes ago, butterflydreams said:

No, the app I use is called Sonneta Voice Monitor. It was 35USD, so not cheap as far as apps go, but it was recommended as what professional voice therapists use. The good part is it lets you record your voice so you can play it back, and it analyzes it for you, giving you an average pitch as well as real time pitch and sound pressure data. I have a decent microphone I’m using with it, but so far I’m very pleased. Worth the money to see how bad (or well) I’m actually doing.

Ohhh sounds cool! (And actually good.) The one I said is just a random free app that I have no idea how it works or if it's accurate at all but it told me my voice sounded mostly male so I was happy with it XD

[Kimmie.]

18 hours ago, butterflydreams said:

I'm wondering if it's hard for me to hear how feminine my own voice is just like it's hard to see how feminine I look.

 

Here's a sample of me reading some article online. What do you all think?

 

https://soundcloud.com/hadleyn/voicetest/

 

Well i am biased but that dosent sound like a man at all.

It did sound better later in the recording, the first part kind of sounded artificial like a computer voice , but that is probably just because of the recording or something like that.

 

But as a said as you continued it was way more naural. If i dident know you and i called a support hotline or something and you answerd, i would assume that you was a women no doubt.

[:)(:]

2 hours ago, Mezzo Forte said:

Testosterone Cypionate

Is their any other forms of T?

[Mezzo Forte]

1 hour ago, :)(: said:

Is their any other forms of T?

Yes, though none of the other types came to mind since I've only ever worked with Cypionate. Did a quick google search, and it kind of explains why dosage can be such a funky thing to discuss.

http://defymedical.com/blog/item/11-the-different-types-of-injectable-testosterone-available-to-patients

[SeeYa]

~

[Starbogen]

So lately my mom seems to be using male pronouns for me like 30-40% of the time give or take? But I'm noticing she's doing it more than she seemed to want to.. Not sure if that makes sense.

 

She had agreed to using male pronouns for me at least when we're out in public so she wouldn't out me, but lately she's been kind of forgetting about it and using half female and half male. Though at least she apologizes when I bring up the name and pronouns slips in public and correct her. Then at the same time she seems to be using more male pronouns for me at home, which she didn't use to do at all. It almost sounds like it's accidental because she's even done it in front of my dad and she'll call me a male pronoun but then also use a female one to cover it up in the same sentence.

 

It's weird and I don't know if I'm just imagining things or if she's doing it on purpose (and if so for what reason) or if it's really accidental because she can't help semi-automatically using masc pronouns sometimes because of how I look (which is my gf's theory.) And overall I don't know how to feel about it because part of me wants to hope maybe she's actually trying to see me more as male or at least trying to use my pronouns, but another part still doesn't trust her at all because when she's used my pronouns spontaneusly in the past it's been mostly to "make me feel better" after she just made me cry and it feels fake and pointless. 

Has anything similar happened to someone else? 

[Autumn Sunrise]

On 20 February 2018 at 10:23 AM, butterflydreams said:

I'm wondering if it's hard for me to hear how feminine my own voice is just like it's hard to see how feminine I look.

 

Here's a sample of me reading some article online. What do you all think?

 

https://soundcloud.com/hadleyn/voicetest/

 

Awesome, @butterflydreams If I just heard that recording and didn't know who it was, I would certainly believe I was listening to a woman. The picture looks good, too 

 

@Mezzo Forte That conference sounds like an absolutely amazing experience! Hopefully it's given you some great contacts and directions for your future work ( . . . makes me wish I was young again, lol!)

[Kimmie.]

@butterflydreams if you don't mind me asking, how much did your day to day clothing style change when you started to transition? 

And anyone else is ofcourse welcome to answer too.

 

I am just curious if you already had a style that you just transferred over, or is it completely different?

 

 

 

[Andiamo]

So, my friends have always been great about using the right name and pronouns for me. I've been using they/them pronouns for almost a year now, and my chosen name since November. In all that time, they haven't really slipped up at all. But this week, I've been called by my old name three times in three days and people have called me by she/her pronouns twice. I know I'm lucky that they've been so consistently good about it and don't have any problems with it, but it still feels really awful to suddenly hear all of that out of nowhere.

[butterflydreams]

10 minutes ago, Kimmie. said:

@butterflydreams if you don't mind me asking, how much did your day to day clothing style change when you started to transition? 

And anyone else is ofcourse welcome to answer too.

 

I am just curious if you already had a style that you just transferred over, or is it completely different?

It changed pretty much completely I’d say. My style used to be casual dress shirts and khaki pants. Sometimes I’d wear ties to work. But that general style was pretty much what I did all the time.

 

When I transitioned I started wearing more stylish and varied tops and mostly skirts on the bottom. I just like skirts and how they look and they’re kind of semi professional, which is always what my style was. I’ve tried dresses, but they’re not really my thing. I have one or two that I like for casual wear, but they’re not really professional enough to wear to work. They’re fun in the summer.

 

I do have some more stylish pants that I wear, but I feel like they don’t look as professional, and they aren’t as comfortable as the skirts I have. One thing that took me a while was getting confident wearing just leggings on the bottom. I still prefer to have a top that’s long enough to cover...down there, but I don’t mind just having leggings on the bottom anymore. I’ve gotten better at tucking and feel like if anyone’s looking, that’s their problem, not mine.