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butterflydreams
6 hours ago, Lirpaderp said:

I've been home a day and I've already fallen apart. I can't do a week of this. I want to go back to school. At least there I'm called he by a few people. I spent all day pretending everything was normal. But I can't do this. I need to tell them but I can't. I can't pretend I'm a girl. I forgot how often my mom calls me miss. I feel like I'm going to vomit. I'm not out to anybody here. How do I last 8 days?  

I agree with @SkyWorld, see if you can get out of the house as much as possible. And just remember that it's only 8 days. A drop in the bucket. It'll be over before you know it. Focus on any positives you can find too. If there's something you like about being home, focus on that. Do you have any friends around you can talk to?

 

Mostly, just know that you will make it. You will last, and things will get better. *hugs*

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I feel like I’ve hit something of a wall in transition. I’m in a weird limbo between being on HRT but pre-op for everything. I need surgery ASAP :( 

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@SkyWorld @butterflydreams none of my friends are home. My siblings come home tomorrow, but one of them heard my friend call me he... So I'm going to have some explaining to do. I'm scared. This is the longest I've ever been away from them, 3 months, I'm afraid they'll have changed... I've definitely changed. I miss them but I'm scared

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23 minutes ago, Lirpaderp said:

@SkyWorld @butterflydreams none of my friends are home. My siblings come home tomorrow, but one of them heard my friend call me he... So I'm going to have some explaining to do. I'm scared. This is the longest I've ever been away from them, 3 months, I'm afraid they'll have changed... I've definitely changed. I miss them but I'm scared

I don't have any good advice, but wanted to wish you good luck! I hope (and believe) you will get through this week or so. And be stronger for it.

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@Finn., this is why I don't post stuff on the internet. Apart from this, I agree that some people are just impossible. Like, I've had a guy be rude to me and diminish me and think I will fall for this? For assholery? I wonder what kind of universe he lives in. 
 
Funny, a couple of years ago if offered the possiblity to take testosterone, I would do it. It used to appeal to me. But now? Nope. I'm not sure if I enjoy being female, if being an adult changed something, if my transition efforts changed something, if working on myself changed something, or if I've just grown oblivious.
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I honestly only ever had 2 other bad experiences before this (on tumblr), just some transphobe sending me a message so I blocked him. And then a whole cascade of transphobes abducting an educational post of mine, so I had to block tons and tons of blogs.

This was more similiar to another experience. I used to do these support chats 2 years ago, just for a few months. I put lgbtq as one of the topics people could come to me for. I got to know a couple of really weird people. I was lucky only 1 got personal (invalidating my gender), but a couple of others seemed to have weird obsessions with trans people and stuff like that. Yuck. So when the tumblr guy started talking about legs I was like "Ohhhhh I SEE You".

 

All in all, considering I spent 6 years on tumblr so far, that's not too bad of a quota.

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I mean, this guy I mentioned wasn't on the internet. I think on the internet people are just less afraid to do such things, because it's less personal. 

------------------------------------------

 

I think... what does it even mean to transition socially if you do only this and without HRT? Change your name? Come out about how you feel and what you think about your gender?

 

Today I was chatting with someone and this person is so calm and enjoys in depth conversations that... I could have technically said something. Additionally, he is pretty chill. So I really could have said something. But I felt no need to. And I didn't get the feeling like it mattered to him this much if I am male or female or like he treats me any different because of that.

 

So yeah, I feel like something has changed. For most of this year, 2017, I have felt an urgent need to come out and talk about my gender. Today, not so much. Maybe it's sufficient out status, maybe it's knowing already what is on the other side and when actually some misconceptions and the such are going on... I always... concluded that I must be alright, because I did all the things I planned, but didn't really feel like that, I didn't feel alright, I was still anxious, felt like something was missing, but now? The need to do something is gone.

 

But I'm not living as a man, I suppose. Moreover, I don't know what it means. In the context of no HRT. If not hiding your body parts, some truths about yourself. And I also don't think it's worth the hassle to correct people all the time. Gender is important for me if I'm friends with someone, and all of my friends know I'm not a cis-het. Well, I tried the correcting someone thing...well, I didn't try, but I wanted to, and every time I was up to do it, it just didn't feel right. In a sense that I didn't feel like I would gain something from it.

 

So... I really came out in those few important moments. I told this another girl in my group that I'm bi, and... that made a difference. That really made a difference. I didn't ever suspect how much of a difference this will make. I really am so gay! And others are not. I thought everyone is as gay as I am. It really shapes the way people relate to each other so much. Sexual orientation, I mean. No wonder I felt out of place. I came out about it in one of those crucial moments lately. And I came out about being non-binary as well last month, which turned out to be quite unimportant, and turned into an angry "don't stereotype people by their bits". I wonder now... what it all means for my identity.

 

I had a double coming out in the end of August as well. One didn't really change much. The other one... I suspect the guy could have been interested in me romantically xD Anyway, maybe we don't date each other, but I've gained a good guy friend. I think I also learned on the way - I'm not really sure how - that I'm not too keen on the interactions men typically have between each other. Or, those conversations in which some men don't include women. I think I got to know what this is, and I'm not into it. oh, it's thanks to those two male friends of mine. They showed me what this is. I'm really grateful to them, because they have really helped me to figure myself out. Basically, I'm not into showing who's better than who, and if I want some brutality I turn on a gangster series (they slaughter each other, really :P neonazis against spies against mafia against 1 gone&found marine - completely absurd if you think about it ), and if I want to talk about sex, I just talk about sex completely unashamed -  strange and pretty obvious... but a tough skill too.

 

I also figure that joining the karate group has helped, because people who do sports are very different from geeks who code very generally speaking, and it helps me keep my socialising diversified and balanced. I mean, I'm not a completely sporty type either, I'm somewhere in the middle. And I figure that taking a look at what interests me and reading stuff and listeming to music, and so forth - that has improved my social life and helped me express myself in a very general way. Plus, it gives topics to talk about and makes me happier. Experimenting with fashion - same. I think also the thing I've learnt... to be one off the guys (everyone can be or not be "one of the guys", no matter their gender) you've gotta be cool and strong, and touh, and show it off. And that goes for very small expressions of that, like tough jokes or military clothes or identification with rock music or just having a massive watch. 

 

So all in all, I wonder what this all means for my identity. Labels... This is a tough one. I think that... in the end the label of a somewhat gay woman who has such-and-such interests and behaviour, which happens to put me somewhere in the moderately masculine area, with some feminine things and a lot of masculine things - that happened to work. I think. Transitioning has not. It's just... awkward to transition without HRT. And not really doable. Everyone sees me and thinks - a woman. People aren't keen to call me the masculine name for whatever reason, and I don't feel the burning desire to push them either. So transition hasn't worked. Although... I can't be caught saying that I feel female :lol: I'm not sure how I feel about my name. I like my masculine name a lot, and it feels like mine, but it feels wrong to change my name, because I don't think I need to. And *cough cough* I feel urges to crossdress or something like this, I need to figure out what to do about it, still. And what it exactly means. 

 

No, this time, I don't think I'm at the end of my journey, some questionnmarks are still left. Maybe transitioning hasn't worked -yet-. A piece of this puzzle is still missing. Although a lot has changed. I need to grow into myself a bit more, still.

 

Otherwise: life update - I have five tests next week. Much at once, isn't it? And this week it's half of the term. There is Christmas in about one month too. No other things going on. My life is peaceful atm. I'm thinking my future through a bit. I didn't know if I bragged about it already, but I got an examption from English classes, and I'm extremely happy about it, because it was 2 long boring lessons a week. And I got an examption for all the three semesters. *relief*

 

I wanted to add still... so in some ways, I wasn't being myself, I was restricting myself, and I had no idea that I did it, because it was conditioned so deeply. The ideas of what is appropriate behaviour, which wasn't even said that this standard was for women. 

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@Emery. sounds like you are on a good path for yourself, congrats! Inspiring post.

 

I'm at a peaceful place with my gender now, I feel like. I feel valid, I am familiar with the changes and its quirks. It doesn't really matter in the end. Sometimes I feel pretty gendered, sometimes not at all, most often I am somewhere in between. I use masculine terms for myself, with more confidence now. I used to do that a lot before my inner coming out. But at the time, and during the realization period, I felt very hesitant about it. On rare occasions I will use the female terms, usually in an *official* context when I don't want to attract attention. 

I've gone from always wearing proper bras to always wearing sports bras. It was definitely a cost factor as well. I still own a few normal bras. I'll see if I will ever wear them. I will propably get rid of of all except one. Sometimes I like to dance around in a bra if I'm being honest. But I don't feel comfortable wearing one in public. I just still own a few tops that don't go with sports bras.

Distancing myself, however little, from stereotypical feminine *traits* was difficult. I survived by fitting in all my life. But I'm getting better at it.

The name thing.. I really love being called by my chosen name. Using it at starbucks and online is natural now. I'm in a very *work persona* mode at work, so I don't even really register what people call me there. I had this argument with my mom, why my family isn't allowed to use my birthname but my colleagues are. Astonishing. I said I thought I could be more vulnerable with them, but apparently not. I thought they might care enough (at least I wanted to give them a chance to care). And using a nickname really isn't that hard. I told her, avoiding names doesn't help getting used to it, using it helps getting used to it. She never even wrote it in an email, she doesn't even have to vocalize it out loud then. I told her my birthname is not my name anymore. She said "we accepted you being a lesbian" as if that would absolve them of the name thing. Two different things people, two different things. Being nice to gay people doesn't mean you can be shitty to trans people. ?? Also, it's not even like my coming out as a lesbian (a long time ago) went so smooth, that's hilarious. My mom didn't talk about it for ages, when confronted she said "she has to accept it, otherwise she would lose her child". My grandmother kept it a secret from my grandfather. Very smooth. But yeah, they didn't ostracize me for it so 100% ally points I guess?

If the legislation actually changes.. I don't know what I'd do. I guess I'd like to change my gender mark. But I don't know about the name. I am bound to my employer for at least 3 more years. And I don't want to change my official name in this setting. It'd be weird and uncomfortable. My colleagues would be fine, but with the parents? Rather not. Maybe if I start working somewhere else at some point. Maybe. Maybe I will find the courage to tell my coworker about my *nickname* at some point, so the gray area between work and private life wouldn't be so tricky.

But all in all I feel at peace with things. It's quite a good place to be. I'm going through some mental health things rn, but it's okay. The talk with my mother helped, finally being able to openly blame her, getting rid of some of the built up frustration. And no winter depression so far, so I can't complain.

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Sorry about your family Finn :/

 

And thank you. 

 

I guess the way I speak is a one big mess when it comes to gender, especially since I said I'm fine being referred to with masculine terms.

 

Maybe a lot of that the improvement has been due to the acknowledgement I got and... in turn, if I say I'm a dude, masculine behaviour is being noticed and reinforced, and this reinforcement really changes the way I behave. I have a feeling that... when there are stories about trans people who already behave so much like the gender they identify with, on the very surface, it's because they've been on the stage I am at now for quite some time. I hope I make sense? Bejng treated like a guy makes you behave like what people think a guy is, you get included in the overall cultural context.

 

But where I got is the tomboy place. You know. The girl who hangs out with the boys a lot and learns how to do skateboard tricks, wears what guys wear, and so forth. Or like Ruby Rose. With her skater and rock style, and liking sports, and acting sometimes like a dude... Speaking of Ruby Rose, she identifies as genderfluid and wewrs skirts and nail polish and stuff like that too, and I do too, but just... because it looks good, I don't really think it has anything to do with how I feel. I'm not sure, but this is what I was meant to be, but had no means before? This is my largest identity thought now. 

 

I didn't suspect I'll find bisexuality to click so much with me. To be The Label. But this is not only this, bi people come in all shapes and sizes, my gender (expression) is also out of norm, it's just a drop in a bucket that i'm bi. I'm bi because of the maleness in me, not the other way round, I feel for women exactly like a man does. If you know what i mean. I found it shocking at first that I'm really attracted to typical female things. 

 

But I'm at a good place, even if I have some needs related to my gender, they are not so urgent. I can push them aside for a month or so without effort. That is huge progress.

 

I realy did all the things I envied guys, ha ha. 

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I'm not even a tomboy haha. I suppose people either (shockingly, surprisingly,rarely) get confused if I am afab or amab or they just think I'm a lesbian. So nobody actually treats me any different. My friends don't either, trans or not. I guess they might just treat me more *neutral* rather than male? So I don't know. But at a larger scale, I get what you mean. I think how other people treat you makes a lot of difference.

 

Bisexuality! TM

It's amazing. My best friend is bi, I questioned whether I was bi at a young age, but here I am, finally identifying as bi at 25. But I am quite sure that for some time I was actually only attracted to girls, for whatever reason (or none). I was also incredibly ace for some time. It's all changing. But bisexuality definitely fits better than anything before? Even knowing I'm somewhat ace, bi still fits better. I feel more included in it myself, more free to be myself, and free to change.

 

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Sometimes I wonder if I'm Bi or somewhat lesbian, but then I go back and think about how certain types of sex make me skip ahead in fan fiction (I can't help it- I'm Sheith Voltron..can't seem to get enough of that ship lol)  and it all... but then I feel repulsed by a few things.. as a whole it doesn't bother me.. it's just..eh? 

Also- since my last post here, I've been living without the shame I used to have for being female bodied.. like.. why should I feel shame for it? I'm still agender- I just want to own something I lost at a young age from certain people I know pretending being tough is some sort of non-existent virtue created from centuries of western toxic masculinity. 

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Today I found out something awesome... So, despite the fact that I am the only genderflux at my school, apparently there are one or two trans people there too. I guess it would be awkward meeting them, but well worth it... But how?

 

(Screams and claps inside):lol:

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On 11/19/2017 at 12:07 PM, ChillaKilla said:

I feel like I’ve hit something of a wall in transition. I’m in a weird limbo between being on HRT but pre-op for everything. I need surgery ASAP :( 

I was past my 1 year mark before I had top surgery, so I understand how you feel. :( You're still fairly new to HRT in the big scheme of things, even if it may feel like the changes are slowing down. I know that can make you that much more focused on the dysphoria that needs surgery to fix, but know that you are progressing, surgery or not, even if you don't feel like you are.

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So... I have an unholy temptation to go to my parents' for Christmas with the below buttons pinned to my bag. I'm not out to them. Let's file this under "probably bad ideas."

Spoiler

pronouns_button-rb324957b19d34f06a0e52dd no_binary_is_gonna_take_me_alive_button- not_invisible_button-ra690d73d2e9842e9ab

  

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I guess that the bi label explains also where I stand with regard to sex. I'm not sure if I'm a top or a bottom, but I have the desire to top someone. For people who aren't heterosexual, it's more normal to have different top/bottom preferences. All is starting to click into place, you know? I feel like... yesss! Yesss!

 

To be honest, I didn't ever like being straight. I'm not sure if I liked girls before, but if I didn't, this change came like a blessing. Yesterday in the evening I thought to myself... I hate dating men :lol: Most people are cis het and they want the "normal" gender dynamic. A man is attracted to me and he automatically behaves like with a girly girl. Ugh. I'm so much not into this. It works for I don't know how large percentage of people, but for sure more than half. It makes dating a dread. There are some nice exceptions from this rule, of course. 

 

But you know what, after this one last guy disappearing without a word of explanation (I suspect I put him off with my opinion on irresponsible behaviour like excessive partying - to be clear, I like parties, I just think one shouldn't do stupid things. Jesus. Christ. Where do I find men who dress decently and have personal hygene, and aren't party animals at the same time? And aren't gay? :lol: ), I think I pulled through, and I'm able to move forward. Lesson learned: don't just go on dates, there are no meaningless dates, and dating without commitment. But you know what, I didn't really lose. It was the one guy I crushed on then. 

 

13 hours ago, Toothlesss said:

Also- since my last post here, I've been living without the shame I used to have for being female bodied.. like.. why should I feel shame for it?

That's great! Right approach. Of course you're still agender! 

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I don´t know where or what i am anymore atleast not for sure. I know what i don´t am and that is a man. So transfeminine is still probably what i feel closest to as far.

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butterflydreams
5 hours ago, Kimmie. said:

I don´t know where or what i am anymore atleast not for sure. I know what i don´t am and that is a man. So transfeminine is still probably what i feel closest to as far.

This is awesome, @Kimmie. *hugs*

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I got the pastel pink fluffy womens house suit. It's a fluffy fleece'ish hoodie and fleece pants... :wub: . It's so soft and warm to wear :wub: 

 

I don't want to see myself in the mirror though <_<, I don't want anyone to see me wear it right now.

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8 minutes ago, Phoenix the II said:

I got the pastel pink fluffy womens house suit. It's a fluffy fleece'ish hoodie and fleece pants... :wub: . It's so soft and warm to wear :wub: 

 

I don't want to see myself in the mirror though <_<, I don't want anyone to see me wear it right now.

For the first time in my life it's like actually really liking something to wear rather than having something to wear because you must.

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Groovy Teacakes

Oh jeez who knew my singing lesson would be so existentially triggering. I love singing so much, especially when I make a sound which just resonates in my body and the room and then everything feels right. I have always dealt with dysphoria surrounding my voice by singing right at the bottom of my range in the octave around and below middle C and I have been able to kid myself that that is just where my voice sits. I comforted myself with the idea that my voice is naturally androgynous. It's not and I've always sort of know that, just at my singing lesson my choir director told me that I should probably move onto a higher part because my best range is higher than the one I'm currently on.

I think it's mainly social dysphoria, as it's less bad singing up there when it's just me. Anyone have any advice for dysphoria and singing?

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30 minutes ago, Groovy Teacakes said:

Oh jeez who knew my singing lesson would be so existentially triggering. I love singing so much, especially when I make a sound which just resonates in my body and the room and then everything feels right. I have always dealt with dysphoria surrounding my voice by singing right at the bottom of my range in the octave around and below middle C and I have been able to kid myself that that is just where my voice sits. I comforted myself with the idea that my voice is naturally androgynous. It's not and I've always sort of know that, just at my singing lesson my choir director told me that I should probably move onto a higher part because my best range is higher than the one I'm currently on.

I think it's mainly social dysphoria, as it's less bad singing up there when it's just me. Anyone have any advice for dysphoria and singing?

I sing when I'm alone mostly.. so sometimes i try to sing at a low octave if the singer is male... It's helped my speaking voice get to a lower octave, but singing...since I only do it for my own enjoyment (and the neighbors don't mind at all).. I basically go with the lower highs instead of the higher ones.. also, I definitely can't reach say.. Courtney Reed's vocal range on the Aladdin Broadway soundtrack... that's just far beyond my range. 

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I'm in a group chat with some people that call me he and some people that call me she. One of which is my brother.... I am not looking forward to that awkwardness.

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nerdperson777
16 hours ago, Toothlesss said:

I sing when I'm alone mostly.. so sometimes i try to sing at a low octave if the singer is male... It's helped my speaking voice get to a lower octave, but singing...since I only do it for my own enjoyment (and the neighbors don't mind at all).. I basically go with the lower highs instead of the higher ones.. also, I definitely can't reach say.. Courtney Reed's vocal range on the Aladdin Broadway soundtrack... that's just far beyond my range. 

I sing in different voices for fun.  I think I still have some three octaves so I got low (masculine guy), middle (masculine girl or feminine guy), and high ("normal" girl).  But of course nothing is inherently gendered.  I haven't exactly figured out how to change between the feminine guy and masculine girl voice since it's the same pitches, but I have heard myself differently.  Maybe it's the vibes or something.  T isn't letting me scream into the heavens with ultra high shrieks anymore.

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On 22.11.2017 at 9:21 AM, Kimmie. said:

I don´t know where or what i am anymore atleast not for sure. I know what i don´t am and that is a man. So transfeminine is still probably what i feel closest to as far.

I like the transfeminine and transmasculine labels a lot. They leave some space, but tell how you feel at the same time or the direction of your "trans vector" :) . At least this is how I see them. The very definitive labels don't leave the room for some details not following the scheme. The descriptions are so detailed and the details are so complicated for many people!

 

1 hour ago, nerdperson777 said:

T isn't letting me scream into the heavens with ultra high shrieks anymore.

I can't say I ever could do it. Puberty came early to me and one of the first things it did was giving me an alto voice. Well, I can hardly reach soprano if I put a lot of effort in it, and it doesn't feel too healthy for my larynx. Well, I can reach parts of base too, if I put a lot of strain into it... for comparison.

 

Lol, in the last karate training, there were some pubescent boys. We had to do some exercises and each member of the group had to count ten repetitions and lead the group. And my voice was so much lower than theirs xD Especially when I have to shout, it turns out what my natural range is, and it's raaather androgynous.

 

1 hour ago, nerdperson777 said:

I haven't exactly figured out how to change between the feminine guy and masculine girl voice

I think it's that a different mixture of pitches gives the same pitch. In the case of a guy, you can often hear some low sound resonating in the background or mixing in.

 

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@nerdperson777 You’ll most likely regain your shrieking abilities after your voice settles :P when I scream I sound the exact same as I did pre-T :lol: 

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On 11/19/2017 at 6:07 PM, ChillaKilla said:

I feel like I’ve hit something of a wall in transition. I’m in a weird limbo between being on HRT but pre-op for everything. I need surgery ASAP :( 

I'm like, pre-hrt.. i feels like it's taking ages to 20 februari until my clinic starts my diagnosis >_>..

 

Already did a few laser removals and it feels so much better! xD.

 

I'm still annoyed by the "that thing has it's own brain" :| 

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On November 22, 2017 at 10:37 AM, Groovy Teacakes said:

Oh jeez who knew my singing lesson would be so existentially triggering. I love singing so much, especially when I make a sound which just resonates in my body and the room and then everything feels right. I have always dealt with dysphoria surrounding my voice by singing right at the bottom of my range in the octave around and below middle C and I have been able to kid myself that that is just where my voice sits. I comforted myself with the idea that my voice is naturally androgynous. It's not and I've always sort of know that, just at my singing lesson my choir director told me that I should probably move onto a higher part because my best range is higher than the one I'm currently on.

I think it's mainly social dysphoria, as it's less bad singing up there when it's just me. Anyone have any advice for dysphoria and singing?

My biggest way of coping pre-T was frankly dissociation. Did the same with my speaking voice actually, denying that those sounds came from me. I barely sang at all pre-T, but when I did have to sing, I just used it to push my range lower. (Studying music does make singing inevitable, so I had to face the dysphoria somehow.) If you stretch the top of your range, the bottom of your range will stretch with it, so there's at least a sense of progress that comes from that.

 

Would labeling the upper part of your range as your falsetto help? I know guys who take great pride in their falsetto, so having access to high notes can still be a source of masculine pride. 

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39 minutes ago, Mezzo Forte said:

My biggest way of coping pre-T was frankly dissociation. Did the same with my speaking voice actually, denying that those sounds came from me. I barely sang at all pre-T, but when I did have to sing, I just used it to push my range lower. (Studying music does make singing inevitable, so I had to face the dysphoria somehow.) If you stretch the top of your range, the bottom of your range will stretch with it, so there's at least a sense of progress that comes from that.

 

Would labeling the upper part of your range as your falsetto help? I know guys who take great pride in their falsetto, so having access to high notes can still be a source of masculine pride. 

Wait... So if I learn to sing even higher, I'll be able to sing lower? I only need to be able to sing a third lower to be in a "men's" singing group. But I'm naturally a soprano, so idk...

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5 hours ago, Lirpaderp said:

Wait... So if I learn to sing even higher, I'll be able to sing lower? I only need to be able to sing a third lower to be in a "men's" singing group. But I'm naturally a soprano, so idk...

To my understanding, it will. Something about the way vocal folds stretch apparently means that the best way to extend your lower range is to stretch in both directions. I can't speak from experience though because testosterone worked its magic with me and now I'm a solid baritone. 8)

 

(That said, I'm definitely more of a lyric baritone rather than a dramatic one, so I don't think it sounds as velvety or powerful as you might expect for that range. I love singing now, but never sang pre-T, so I have the added layer of sheer inexperience compounding the instability of my developing vocal folds. A lot of music I like isn't well-suited to a lyric voice type either, so my singing sounds awful, especially knowing that I'm a formally-trained musician :lol:)

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14 minutes ago, Mezzo Forte said:

To my understanding, it will. Something about the way vocal folds stretch apparently means that the best way to extend your lower range is to stretch in both directions. I can't speak from experience though because testosterone worked its magic with me and now I'm a solid baritone. 8)

 

(That said, I'm definitely more of a lyric baritone rather than a dramatic one, so I don't think it sounds as velvety or powerful as you might expect for that range. I love singing now, but never sang pre-T, so I have the added layer of sheer inexperience compounding the instability of my developing vocal folds. A lot of music I like isn't well-suited to a lyric voice type either, so my singing sounds awful, especially knowing that I'm a formally-trained musician :lol:)

I can already sing to a c6, how far should I stretch it?

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