Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

standup

Discussion 2.0: Asexual Flag

Recommended Posts

bristrek

Well, seeing the polling result before you vote is a bad idea, but it's nice to see them after you've voted. Well, so long as you can't go change your vote.

And I asked the mods of asexual_fandom on DW if they'd mind a post linking back to here or the DW version of it in any case and they said no. So..... that one post on the non-fandom DW comm is it. And still no responses to either it or the LJ one. Other than the one by somebody from here with no account there and a link to the new Project Team e-mail.

When it gets closer to deadline I'll make another post on both, just to make sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
standup

There's someone in Poland working on making a flag, other than that I haven't heard any talk anywhere else about it.

Someone mentioned earlier that it's asking a lot for people to post on this thread since many of them have already had their say on the two other threads, and I can see the wisdom in that. I'm not sure how many more people will be interested in discussing this after it's already been talked about so heavily. Most of the conceptual things about the flag have already been established.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dargon

Someone mentioned earlier that it's asking a lot for people to post on this thread since many of them have already had their say on the two other threads, and I can see the wisdom in that. I'm not sure how many more people will be interested in discussing this after it's already been talked about so heavily. Most of the conceptual things about the flag have already been established.

I would argue that if they were truly interested in getting this done right, they would post here. Much of the purpose of the discussion thread was to have this discussion in a place where it is not lost between the plethora of submissions, the "hey, I voted" posts, and the discussion about the early procedure. Sure, they said there piece there, but seeing as the submission thread is effectively pointless now and the voting thread has been largely abandoned by those eager to move on, not speaking again in this thread sounds like a good way to lose one's say.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pandoren

I'd actually like to see more posts by the people who said "I voted no for a flag because I don't think this is being done right" (a few said it was rushed, or that the flags didn't have enough meaning etc) so they can help us to rectify that situation. I do want to make as many people as happy as possible about this. I'd also like to see those who were vehemently against a flag, if they want to try and work with "damage limitation" if you like, to help us work out something that maybe would be acceptable to them if this motion got passed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest fridayoak

I think I might be the person standup is referring to. What I meant was that I hope that the new survey thing isn't going to be the sole determinant in gauging people's opnions, as I can imagine some people who have posted in this thread (or the previous thread) not wanting to continuously have to repeat themselves, so basically I wanted assurance that all opinions that have been expressed will be taken into account.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
standup

I was just pointing out that we may not get as much discussion as we want, that's all. I would definitely like for people to post more, but at the moment that may be optimistic (or possibly more traffic could come in this weekend, I'm not sure?) I'll definitely try to keep everyone's opinions in mind, though. I've read every post from everyone so I have an idea of what the community is trying to say.

I agree with Acer, though. I have no idea why those so against the making of a flag haven't come here, since they were mostly the reason why I made it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kitchenwitch

I guess I thought I was replying to this thread when I hit send on the other thread. I'll clip what I posted there:

I was alerted in all the places I'm connected to the community -- great job, whoever is getting the word out on FB, LJ, and Tumblr!

To clarify my position, I still don't think we as a community need or are ready to have a flag as things stand now, I think we have a long way to go in terms of visibility before it becomes in any way useful.

<snip>

To reiterate, I'd rather have no flag than one that is meaningless to a large proportion of the community because not enough time was spent on it. I doubt even the quickest of votes would provide anything in time for this year's remaining Pride events, so why not take our time and make sure it's right for next year, if that's what people want?

This^^.

I don't think our options are limited to "decide on a flag in an AVEN poll" or "don't have a flag". I think we will have a flag, eventually, but it will probably be a more organic process than what we're doing here. There are many possible ways to "choose" a flag, and the one that makes most sense to me is to just wait and see what flags asexuals end up using--if we get to a point where we have a lot of real-world events, someone will probably start using something.

I agree with Ily -- why would we rush through this process? As of now, ace gatherings that have a need for flags are few and far between. I understand the desire for a unifying symbol, but our community is often going to disagree on what that symbol is unless we let it grow from amongst us. No one disagrees that the rainbow represents the LGBT community, because it was adopted from NY Pride in the early '90s (someone posted the story, I think it was '94). Everyone saw the pictures of the LGBTs in the rainbow and said, "We should do that too!" And now there are whole flag store chains that carry rainbow flags.

How many of us are artists? In a community with this many artists, we shouldn't be designing our flag this way. Like cake and the triangle, it should come from what our community starts using, when we find need for a flag. I don't think we need a flag now. I think what we need is a unifying symbol to make us feel connected. That makes sense given that many of us have a shared experience of feeling disconnected from the largely sexual world. I don't think a flag is the thing that will connect us, though.

And like others have said, you don't have to use it. I mean I know that's not your issue directly, but you could probably not be effected by a flag at all if it were developed anyway. So hopefully it won't end up bother you too much. :(

Yes, I know I don't have to use it, but if this stupid flag thing is made official (the official part is what is really really bothering me to the point where I'm trying so hard to keep my cool about it), it still represents part of my identity. A part of my identity that I'm really fighting to make visible and understood. I am going to be associated with the flag whether I like it or not. And I don't have a choice in that matter. So yeah, this bothers me immensely.

I don't feel particularly strongly in or against support of the creation of a flag, though I do think it would be useful to spread visibility. And I like flags. If enough people felt strongly opposed to it, though (and it wouldn't have to be a majority, just a large showing), I would argue against making one "official."

One "official" flag is going to be difficult to enforce, which makes it an arbitrary rule. It creates some animosity (like those who feel they're being dictated to) and stifles creativity in our community by saying "This is the official flag." If it becomes "official", then it becomes attached to our community and us by proxy. Even those who disagree with the idea of a flag right now.

I think the compromise that's trying to be forged is being done in earnest. What if it also included the removal of the "official" status/title, and became a suggested community flag (or similar)? Then people who are hot to work on a flag can work on one, but without trying to impose the results on the entire community.

standup agreed to add removing the "officialness" of the flag to the 2.0 flag plan. That helps with some of my concerns, though certainly not all of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+Lee

Another idea (For the person who liked one of my other ideas but it had no grey):

Screenshot2010-07-08at104023PM.png?t=1278646864

btw, you are saving the new flag ideas in this thread right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
standup

Yes ma'am.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PiF

all good attempts and valued suggestions

my personal feeling is one colour and one symbol..preferable the triangle as it seems quite well used around the world for asexual sites I've seen so far

other than that it gets too complicated, looks too much like some dirty washing left out for public display or a small country no one has ever heard of

in brand recognition...and this is what we are searching for..we need an instantaniously simple design to be recognised once and not forgotten

make the design to busy ..and well..people turn off...like long posts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bristrek

I have a few flag suggestions. I went easy on the symbols this time.

NewAceFlagOnecopy.jpg

The reason I have the chainy things in the third flag is that they are black rings; having them lined up together is my way of symbolizing asexual solidarity. You know, the black ring that one asexual person wears made into a more inclusive symbol. I don't know, I've been trying to cure cancer all day. (Literally. I work in a lung cancer research lab.)

I think that one still counts as busy? Maybe, and this is just an idea, you could replace the row of black rings with a black strip? There's also no grey in it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bristrek

Another idea (For the person who liked one of my other ideas but it had no grey):

Screenshot2010-07-08at104023PM.png?t=1278646864

btw, you are saving the new flag ideas in this thread right?

Ooooo, I like this one! I think the grey and the white are in the wrong order but if no one minds, that's a neat one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+Lee

Another idea (For the person who liked one of my other ideas but it had no grey):

Screenshot2010-07-08at104023PM.png?t=1278646864

btw, you are saving the new flag ideas in this thread right?

Ooooo, I like this one! I think the grey and the white are in the wrong order but if no one minds, that's a neat one.

Thank you! :)

Good point, though it doesn't need to be in order does it? All the same:

I made another version(s) of it. XD

Screenshot2010-07-09at101000AM.png

Ok, I shall stop making designs!! I've made a heck load so unless I come up with something really interesting I think I better stop!! The most I'll do is maybe another diagonal one but no more horizontal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
standup

All of your designs have been awesome so far. :P I think before I kick off the new poll I'll stick everyone's in a collage and then ask for comments/concerns. :)

My personal favorite of those is the bottom right, btw. :D I like how the purple is biggest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dannyboi

Thank you! :)

Good point, though it doesn't need to be in order does it? All the same:

I made another version(s) of it. XD

Screenshot2010-07-09at101000AM.png

Ok, I shall stop making designs!! I've made a heck load so unless I come up with something really interesting I think I better stop!! The most I'll do is maybe another diagonal one but no more horizontal.

out of all of those, i like the bottom two best, because personally i don't think we should have a flag in which some of the stripes are bigger than others (unless it's the purple, because that's representative of the community as a whole in people's minds) because that would be like saying one identity is bigger/more important than another. i am very for the stripes being the same size for this reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PiF

to busy and looks like a landing strip

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pandoren

I still prefer the simpler four stripe ones. The busier ones with lots of stripes make my eyes hurt. Plus, I still like the idea of the strips being the same size, indicating equality between the four colours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
you*hear*but*do*you*listen

Okay, I guess this is still a little busy...but it has gray now, and I like it, even if no one else does.

NewAceFlagOnecopy-1.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dargon

I am seeing repeated use of the old AVEN triangle. I cannot emphasize enough just how opposed I am to its usage. I know a gradient is not possible on a flag, but I feel that if any version of the AVEN triangle is to be used, it needs to have at least one shade of grey in the triangle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
asexual cake

I agree with Dargon re: the triangle, both because of issues related to the symbolism of the gradient (in that it allows for those not quite sexual or asexual) and the fact that impure minds may travel to less than savory places when faced with a white triangle that has shading at the tip.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PiF

I am seeing repeated use of the old AVEN triangle. I cannot emphasize enough just how opposed I am to its usage. I know a gradient is not possible on a flag, but I feel that if any version of the AVEN triangle is to be used, it needs to have at least one shade of grey in the triangle.

I agree with Dargon re: the triangle, both because of issues related to the symbolism of the gradient (in that it allows for those not quite sexual or asexual) and the fact that impure minds may travel to less than savory places when faced with a white triangle that has shading at the tip.

I think if you look at other language versions of aven..almost all have the triangle..so it's more likely to be associated with and by asexuals the world over

don't forget..whilst i personally feel aven should take the lead and feel confident others will join..aven is not the only asexual site..the biggest english speaking no doubt..but not the only

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SpirallingSnowy

Im currently translating the Survey into other languages using Yahoo's Babel Fish, so although it wont be perfect, it should be close enough for those who are ESL or dont really know English.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SpirallingSnowy

Also, have posted about this thread and the survey in Acebook.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pandoren

Ty Snowy :) :cake:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
asexual cake

I am seeing repeated use of the old AVEN triangle. I cannot emphasize enough just how opposed I am to its usage. I know a gradient is not possible on a flag, but I feel that if any version of the AVEN triangle is to be used, it needs to have at least one shade of grey in the triangle.

I agree with Dargon re: the triangle, both because of issues related to the symbolism of the gradient (in that it allows for those not quite sexual or asexual) and the fact that impure minds may travel to less than savory places when faced with a white triangle that has shading at the tip.

I think if you look at other language versions of aven..almost all have the triangle..so it's more likely to be associated with and by asexuals the world over

don't forget..whilst i personally feel aven should take the lead and feel confident others will join..aven is not the only asexual site..the biggest english speaking no doubt..but not the only

I don't think either of us are opposed to the use of a triangle, so long as it represents the white-grey-black gradient, rather than just having white and black.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
you*hear*but*do*you*listen

NewAceFlagOnecopy-2.jpg

Maybe a triangle like this, then? No gradient, but there's gray.

NewAceFlagFive.jpg

Or...we could focus exclusively on the triangle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pandoren

I was thinking about that second flag earlier (before you posted it as a matter of fact...). I'd only accept that as a solely AVEN flag.

(In case you were wondering about my line of thought, I was imagining a flag pole like the old ship's masts with the little flag symbols... and having the Ace flag at the top and an AVEN flag (looking like that one) below it lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dargon
I think if you look at other language versions of aven..almost all have the triangle..so it's more likely to be associated with and by asexuals the world over

don't forget..whilst i personally feel aven should take the lead and feel confident others will join..aven is not the only asexual site..the biggest english speaking no doubt..but not the only

I don't think either of us are opposed to the use of a triangle, so long as it represents the white-grey-black gradient, rather than just having white and black.

This is indeed what I was saying.

Maybe a triangle like this, then? No gradient, but there's gray.

NewAceFlagFive.jpg

Indeed, something like that I think could work fine. It's no gradient, but it still includes the grey in the triangle itself where the grey should be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
standup

I think it'd be neat to use the flag with the triangle and purple background as "AVEN's" flag. Acer's comment reminded me that places in the USA fly flags with the country flag at the top, then underneath is a state flag, and under that is the flag of whatever place you're at (like a city or business). I think the triangle would be great on a flag for this community, but for an orientation-wide flag, I would prefer something very very simple. (Then at Pride events or whatever, each country/community could have their own flag if they want and we don't have to worry about whether the triangle fits everyone or not... so the Polish forum can have theirs, Spanish can have theirs, and for English, we have ours - all flying beneath one universal flag?) Sorry if this doesn't sound very coherent. XD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SpirallingSnowy

Ive been saying this the whole time........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...