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Fellow Sexuals

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alibali
29 minutes ago, Sally said:

Yes, it is.  So it shouldn't be described as causing a stable relationship to be damaged forever, as though the asexual caused it.  

Absolutely. And it also sounds like someone being asexual defines them as a person. That's not something that is said about people who are sexual.

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ryn2
41 minutes ago, Sally said:

Yes, it is.  So it shouldn't be described as causing a stable relationship to be damaged forever, as though the asexual caused it.  

That, and it’s not that discovering you’re asexual damages relationships.  Mixed relationships are mixed regardless of what the participants know about their sexuality.  All that discovery does is provide a better/more accurate explanation for why the relationship is the way it (already) is.

 

Being armed with more knowledge may change how one or more people in the relationship feel about continuing it, but that’s not damaging a stable relationship.  It’s just better understanding the relationship - stable or not - that’s already there.

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nanogretchen4

As for asexuality defining someone as a person, heterosexuality is the unmarked orientation. A white male heterosexual looks in the mirror and sees a person. A white female heterosexual looks in the mirror and sees a woman. A gay white female looks in the mirror and sees a lesbian. Mainstream society is set up for the convenience of (white, male,cis,middle class) heterosexuals and the promotion of their culture and values. Their heterosexual identity is so central that it's invisible. So I do suspect that once asexuals truly internalize the idea that they are people with a valid minority orientation rather than broken heterosexuals, they may start looking in the mirror and seeing asexuals. And at that point they may want a community that reflects their own culture and values.

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alibali
49 minutes ago, nanogretchen4 said:

As for asexuality defining someone as a person, heterosexuality is the unmarked orientation. A white male heterosexual looks in the mirror and sees a person. A white female heterosexual looks in the mirror and sees a woman. A gay white female looks in the mirror and sees a lesbian. Mainstream society is set up for the convenience of (white, male,cis,middle class) heterosexuals and the promotion of their culture and values. Their heterosexual identity is so central that it's invisible. So I do suspect that once asexuals truly internalize the idea that they are people with a valid minority orientation rather than broken heterosexuals, they may start looking in the mirror and seeing asexuals. And at that point they may want a community that reflects their own culture and values.

Hmmm. I think I am missing your point. Are you saying peoples personality and values are defined by their sexuality?? 

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nanogretchen4

Not entirely, but any characteristic you have that makes you different from the group mainstream society is designed to serve and promote gives you an outsider perspective on the mainstream. An asexual who still identifies with heterosexual values might think being their best self includes passing as heterosexual and making a relationship with a heterosexual work. An asexual who identifies with asexual values might think being their best self includes promoting asexual visibility, supporting the asexual community, and finding an asexual partner if they actually want to be part of a couple in the first place.

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ryn2

To me it’s somehow conceptually harder to consider something I *don’t* have central to my identity.  I know people do - e.g., deafness is the full or partial absence of hearing and yet deaf people where I live have a strong community and collective identity - but this feels different to me somehow.  I’m not sure why.  I had a stroke in my 30’s, the lasting effects of which are largely invisible to everyone else, and yet I still feel part of “post-stroke patients.”  Hm.

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Sally
7 hours ago, nanogretchen4 said:

Not entirely, but any characteristic you have that makes you different from the group mainstream society is designed to serve and promote gives you an outsider perspective on the mainstream. An asexual who still identifies with heterosexual values might think being their best self includes passing as heterosexual and making a relationship with a heterosexual work. An asexual who identifies with asexual values might think being their best self includes promoting asexual visibility, supporting the asexual community, and finding an asexual partner if they actually want to be part of a couple in the first place.

Just everyone has a characteristic that makes us different from that mainstream-society-approved group.   I'm not sure what "heterosexual values" are.  My values aren't defined by my orientation; they're my values as a person.  

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alibali

I definitely don't feel part of an asexual community nor that my values are defined by my orientation. Duty, honour, manners, honesty, professionalism. My orientation now I know about it will lead me to different choices. But choices are not the same as values.

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Telecaster68

I don't think nano was saying it defines you, just that you acknowledge it as part of who you are, and can find common cause with other people who also have asexuality as part of who they are. 

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Apostle
On 12/14/2018 at 6:32 PM, Ficto. said:

 

x

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Apostle
On 12/14/2018 at 8:45 PM, Sally said:

 

x

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alibali

If the asexual was asexual throughout (but just didnt know it) then how could it become a stable relationship in the first place. If it was because the asexual put their partners needs above their own and the sexual partner didn't realise either, then the cause is more likely to be that it is difficult to never put yourself first over a long period of time.  Ultimately something is likely to break.

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MrDane

Being the cause of something, doesnt necessary put the blaim on that person. You could call it force majeure or destiny or “how things turned out to be in the long run”. 

There is nothing wrong with being asexual or with not realizing until way down the line. About the stability, then when greater changes have occured, then new definitions/agreement can be important, in order to preserve the stability. If it doesnt hold up, then let it fall.

 

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Apostle said:

Well, you are in NZ! The population is what, around 5 million so no wonder you are having a problem. 

I'll see if I can find you one as I'm on a grand trip to the two islands next year!

 

Have fun!

Hah the whole point of my original comment was you said this: 

 

On 12/15/2018 at 12:01 AM, Apostle said:

Gay people, (although not all) seem to be everywhere these days. Some would say many are too much in your face, especially in the media.

I think they were always there. So much for Catholic doctrine saying otherwise.😞

 

Then you were saying the 4-5% seems like a low estimate, and mentioned that it's because I'm on a different 'spectrum' so probably don't find them when I'm looking etc. But I was literally just talking about trying to find gay and bi females on NZ dating sites for a start, not even compatible ones.. just finding women who identify that way who might like to have a convo with me. Just ones that exist. Then you were like 'well you're in NZ of course they're hard to find!!' ..after having just said they were everywhere and 4-5% is a low estimate, when my initial point had been that they're very hard to find here and that's all I was trying to say :P

 

It's like we had to have this long discussion with many comments, for you to finally come to a conclusion and tell it to me like it's new info to me when it's the exact same thing I was saying at the very start of the convo. It's hard to find gay and bi-identifying females in NZ. Small population and slightly conservative society. Exactly.

 

Though technically if they're 'everywhwre' they still should be easier to find than this :P

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
5 hours ago, Apostle said:

So the sexual being denied a sexual life is not a cause of the asexual denying sex? Is that what you mean?

If so, what would be the cause? 

It's not because the ace is denying sex but because the sexual and the asexual are sexually incompatible.

 

'Denying' sex implies the ace wants it but is holding back to punish the sexual or something. That's not at all the case though. The ace tries to avoid it because in the long run, sex hurts the ace emotionally. And even when it doesn't, many sexuals aren't necessarily happy just pumping away between someone's legs while their partner lies there and waits for it to be over. Some are okay with that, but many want their partner to be more engaged. I'd personally rather not have sex than fuck someone who is clearly just lying there taking it for my sake, but whatever lol. So even when the ace gives sex the sexual still isn't always satisfied and there's many cases of this happening that have been spoken about on AVEN.

 

So yeah. The sexlessness is because of sexual incompatibility, not because one partner is merely denying the other sex as though that's a super casual and easy thing for an ace to have.

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Serran
1 hour ago, Ficto. said:

It's not because the ace is denying sex but because the sexual and the asexual are sexually incompatible.

 

'Denying' sex implies the ace wants it but is holding back to punish the sexual or something. That's not at all the case though. The ace tries to avoid it because in the long run, sex hurts the ace emotionally. And even when it doesn't, many sexuals aren't necessarily happy just pumping away between someone's legs while their partner lies there and waits for it to be over. Some are okay with that, but many want their partner to be more engaged. I'd personally rather not have sex than fuck someone who is clearly just lying there taking it for my sake, but whatever lol. So even when the ace gives sex the sexual still isn't always satisfied and there's many cases of this happening that have been spoken about on AVEN.

 

So yeah. The sexlessness is because of sexual incompatibility, not because one partner is merely denying the other sex as though that's a super casual and easy thing for an ace to have.

Which in shorter terms...

 

Since its incompatibility between the two the cause of the relationship breakdown is both orientations, not just asexuality. So could as easily say its the sexuals fault as the ace. It is just both needs dont work since they are polar opposites. 

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Apostle
On 12/15/2018 at 6:44 PM, Ficto. said:

 

x

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kevinkedar

I came on this forum to get familiar with asexual person and their feeling. But I realized and also helped some to get over from asexuality. Actually, some of them were really not asexual but lost interest in their sex life. So I just guided them how to spice up their sex life. 

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Sally
On 12/15/2018 at 5:11 AM, Apostle said:

So the sexual being denied a sexual life is not a cause of the asexual denying sex? Is that what you mean?

If so, what would be the cause? 

The asexual isn't denying them sex; the asexual is simply denying them sex with the asexual.  The sexual is free to leave the mixed relationship where they are having no sex, and find another sexual where they will have sex.  It's their choice to stay.   

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alibali
16 minutes ago, kevinkedar said:

I came on this forum to get familiar with asexual person and their feeling. But I realized and also helped some to get over from asexuality. Actually, some of them were really not asexual but lost interest in their sex life. So I just guided them how to spice up their sex life. 

I doubt very much whether you could really help asexuals, as you say. I have had some quite good sex as an asexual. I just didn't want it and don't miss it. It's unimportant (to me) although I used to feel like it ought to be important (to me) and that is what made me and my previous partners unhappy.

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Apostle
On 12/18/2018 at 9:03 AM, Sally said:

 

x

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Telecaster68
36 minutes ago, Apostle said:

It's not really that simple though is it? 

Add in children, a shared love, years of togetherness, shared interests, there is so much more to a relationship. You can't just ditch all of that unless your life is made a misery by other influences, like denial of asexuality, mental abuse, physical abuse, drugs, drink etc. 

I sacrificed my sexuality because the merits of staying in my relationship outweighed the lack of sex.

It still meant that I lost a part of me though, regardless. She didn't lose any part of her.

 

The nearest analogy I can come up with (and obviously this will now get misinterpreted and twisted like all analogies on AVEN), is that it's like one partner abandoning their own career to support their partner's; it's a choice, and on balance one that the sacrificing partner is okay to make because they still get plenty from the relationship, in the bigger picture it's better than the distress from insisting they both have careers, they want their partner to be happy, the other may earn more which benefits them both etc. But it's still felt every day as a loss, sometimes more intensely than others, and there may be a point where it's too much.

 

Similarly, saying 'well you can always leave' is, as you point out, a simplistic response.

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ryn2
42 minutes ago, Apostle said:

It's not really that simple though is it? 

Add in children, a shared love, years of togetherness, shared interests, there is so much more to a relationship. You can't just ditch all of that unless your life is made a misery by other influences, like denial of asexuality, mental abuse, physical abuse, drugs, drink etc. 

I sacrificed my sexuality because the merits of staying in my relationship outweighed the lack of sex.

It still meant that I lost a part of me though, regardless. She didn't lose any part of her.

 

Well, you *can* ditch all that; you just personally weighed your options and decided you preferred staying to leaving.

 

We don’t know whether or not your wife has also made sacrifices by staying in the relationship... but either way it’s not a contest.  If at some point the sacrifices you make are no longer worth it you can reassess your choice.

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ryn2
3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

The nearest analogy I can come up with (and obviously this will now get misinterpreted and twisted like all analogies on AVEN), is that it's like one partner abandoning their own career to support their partner's; it's a choice, and on balance one that the sacrificing partner is okay to make because they still get plenty from the relationship, in the bigger picture it's better than the distress from insisting they both have careers, they want their partner to be happy, the other may earn more which benefits them both etc. But it's still felt every day as a loss, sometimes more intensely than others, and there may be a point where it's too much.

 

Similarly, saying 'well you can always leave' is, as you point out, a simplistic response.

Any choice you make has risks and impact.  I worked the higher-paying, more demanding job throughout my marriage so my partner - whose beloved avocation required it - could have one that was more flexible. This is now coming back to bite me in a big way, and that feels very unfair, but it was my choice and not something anyone put a gun to my head and forced me into.

 

Am I regretting it?  Absolutely.  That still doesn’t turn it into something he caused or did to me.

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Telecaster68
2 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Any choice you make has risks and impact.  I worked the higher-paying, more demanding job throughout my marriage so my partner - whose beloved avocation required it - could have one that was more flexible. This is now coming back to bite me in a big way, and that feels very unfair, but it was my choice and not something anyone put a gun to my head and forced me into.

 

Am I regretting it?  Absolutely.  That still doesn’t turn it into something he caused or did to me.

I completely agree. But saying to you at this point 'shut up - you could've left', which is what's been said to more than one sexual partner on here, would be to massively, and unsympathetically, simplify the situation.

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alibali

They are big choices to make undoubtedly.

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ryn2
32 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I completely agree. But saying to you at this point 'shut up - you could've left', which is what's been said to more than one sexual partner on here, would be to massively, and unsympathetically, simplify the situation.

I think people take that approach when they hear partners (in this case, sexual, but it goes both ways) unsympathetically going on about how their partners ruined their lives, did this to them, etc.  No, [complaining person], you chose this and are continuing to choose it by your ongoing actions.

 

It’s a lot easier to be sympathetic towards someone who just says their life sucks without adding an explanation of how it’s all their partner’s fault.

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Philip027
Quote

I think people take that approach when they hear partners (in this case, sexual, but it goes both ways) unsympathetically going on about how their partners ruined their lives, did this to them, etc.  No, [complaining person], you chose this and are continuing to choose it by your ongoing actions.

 

It’s a lot easier to be sympathetic towards someone who just says their life sucks without adding an explanation of how it’s all their partner’s fault.

ding ding ding

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Telecaster68

No, I've seen it repeatedly voiced towards people saying 'I own this as a choice, but some understanding that it's not easy now and then from my partner would be good.'

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anisotrophic
3 hours ago, alibali said:

I doubt very much whether you could really help asexuals, as you say. I have had some quite good sex as an asexual. I just didn't want it and don't miss it. It's unimportant (to me) although I used to feel like it ought to be important (to me) and that is what made me and my previous partners unhappy.

No no maybe, maybe... I just need to try... LITERAL SPICES. Get nekkid, rub it into my skin, and then make sexy moves. What do we think? Should I try cardamom or cayenne?

 

😂 I'm very chill now about my incapability of inspiring attraction, I'm loved and I'm grateful he puts up with my strange sexual desires. but hey maybe I just haven't been spicy enough, haha

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