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anisotrophic
Just now, Fallen Unicorn said:

She started questioning her gender at the same time as her sexuality.

That's a pretty common scenario, a lot of aces are also nb/trans... I think I might be the only gender questioning sexual around here, with my partner being ace, am I doing this wrong?! 😂 (but that's not completely true, I've met at least one trans male sexual)

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Fallen Unicorn
13 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

People tend to assume cishet and don't check profiles... but there have been LGBT sexuals, I really appreciate these perspectives, it gets conversations out of the gender role stereotypes.

Thanks, I'm glad to be here to bring one of those perspectives 😊

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Fallen Unicorn
5 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

I think I might be the only gender questioning sexual around here, with my partner being ace, am I doing this wrong?! 😂

Eh, I've questioned my gender several times as well. But I find it easier and more comfortable to refer to myself as a girl, cause feelings on how feminine I feel vs, how gender-neutral I feel can change. I personally don't like the idea of changing my gender identity based on feelings that aren't consistent. Just like my sexual preference fluctuates, but I find it more comfortable and accurate to identify as pansexual.

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Fallen Unicorn
6 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

1. Generally, the definition of asexual on AVEN amounts to 'someone who would prefer not to have sex as part of a romantic relationship'.

That's not always the definition for asexuals, is it? Cause some asexual people enjoy sex (on occasion) or don't care either way, right?

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Fallen Unicorn
10 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

1. Generally, the definition of asexual on AVEN amounts to 'someone who would prefer not to have sex as part of a romantic relationship'.

2. Specifically in this case, Ryn was arguing that your partner saying she wanted only kisses and cuddles in a romantic relationship wasn't prima facie reason to think asexuality was involved. Where-ever you've ended up with your conclusions, obviously this occurred to you too or you wouldn't have come to AVEN. We'd kind of moved into a discussion of why this might apply more generally, too.

3. I'm only saying what countless asexuals have said, but for some reason, it gets a response involving labyrinthine reasons why it might not stand.

4. The only difference between me saying it and the times its generally accepted is that I'm not asexual.

 

And from that I drew my point...

So your argument is that her wanting only kisses and cuddles in a relationship does make asexuality a reasonable conclusion?

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24 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

It seemed to me there was a massive amount of pretzel logic going on to explain why a generic someone who didn't want sex as part of a romantic relationship wasn't prima facie asexual.

That’s probably because you thought I was debating the ex’s sexuality where I was actually debating its relevance.

 

OP thought their ex might not be asexual despite the ex claiming to be.  If the two of them planned to stay together this would need sorting out.  Since the relationship is already over, it’s irrelevant; for either explanation, no sex is happening and that’s a good enough reason not to dive back in.

 

In addition, since it’s ended, the whole “people have the right to self-identify” lecture someone questioning their partner’s stated orientation might otherwise get here is equally irrelevant.

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Fallen Unicorn
33 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

on the default assumption that asexuals are good and wise and virtuous, and therefore the partners (frequently cis-men) must therefore be far more at fault.

Heh, I get that. A member of her family has been treating me like dog shit cause I needed that in a healthy relationship. They're blaming me, saying I'm toxic and I don't love myself. What a joke.

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Fallen Unicorn
Just now, Fallen Unicorn said:

Heh, I get that. A member of her family has been treating me like dog shit cause I needed that in a healthy relationship. They're blaming me, saying I'm toxic and I don't love myself. What a joke.

I blocked their ass, but it still sucks.

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17 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Ryn was arguing that your partner saying she wanted only kisses and cuddles in a romantic relationship wasn't prima facie reason to think asexuality was involved. Where-ever you've ended up with your conclusions, obviously this occurred to you too or you wouldn't have come to AVEN. We'd kind of moved into a discussion of why this might apply more generally, too.

Ryn2 was choosing not to attack the OP for questioning whether or not their ex was REALLY asexual and instead focusing on the question of whether or not to give the relationship another try.

 

I think the answer to “another try?” is “best not” whether the ex is truly ace or just not into the OP anymore.

 

That’s the entire point I was making.  I didn’t see any gain in getting all “you can’t question someone’s stated identification!!” over a relationship that’s already ended.

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Fallen Unicorn
6 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

If the two of them planned to stay together this would need sorting out.  Since the relationship is already over, it’s irrelevant; for either explanation, no sex is happening and that’s a good enough reason not to dive back in.

I tried sorting it out, and even though the relationship isn't currently happening, I wanted to keep sorting it out?  I guess it's useless, but even after a relationship ends, I'm not one to give up easily; I'm stubborn. If anything, I feel like she's given up easily time and time again. Ugh 😕

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Just now, Apostle said:

Just because they're (asexuals) having sex with a sexual doesn't make them sexual though, does it. And having sex cheerfully doesn't really mix it with me at all.

I agree that valuing the relationship can outweigh the disadvantages of not having a mutual sex relationship but this is the only occasion where a compromise on both partners is mutual, otherwise the compromise is always the sexuals.

Once an ace always an ace. It's just a matter of the level of aceness, that's all. 

Yes, that was the point I was trying to make as well - that what  makes someone sexual or ace isn’t their sexual behavior.  It’s the thoughts and feelings and whatnot behind it.

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8 minutes ago, Fallen Unicorn said:

I feel like she's given up easily time and time again

Unfortunately that’s a good reason to move on too.  I’m sorry... ending a relationship that wasn’t 100% bad is hard and it’s pretty common to second-guess yourself, remember the good times more easily than the bad, etc.

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Fallen Unicorn

And given that she was questioning her sexuality during the relationship, I wasn't okay with that. My opinion is that someone shouldn't go into or stay in a relationship if they're questioning something as vital as that. Cause that can be really harmful to the other person, as I've learned.

 

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I would've respected her a lot more if she just had the balls to break up with me herself.

 

(I didn't know she was questioning her sexuality till towards the end of the relationship)

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Fallen Unicorn
2 minutes ago, Fallen Unicorn said:

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I would've respected her a lot more if she just had the balls to break up with me herself.

Mostly because of how her family's been treating me, when I'm the victim in all of this. She's the one who ended what was a full relationship, I was simply the one who realized we were both fooling ourselves for making me settle for any less.

 

What we had by the time I "broke up" with her wasn't a relationship anymore. Especially since she sees cuddling as purely romantic, while I see it as mostly platonic. I'm sorry, I got off on a tangent 😕

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12 minutes ago, Fallen Unicorn said:

My opinion is that someone shouldn't go into or stay in a relationship if they're questioning something as vital as that. Cause that can be really harmful to the other person, as I've learned.

I think people should be upfront about it.  That might not mean ending the relationship, but the discovery should at least come up for discussion.

 

Sometimes it’s really hard to have tough conversations, though.

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9 minutes ago, Fallen Unicorn said:

Mostly because of how her family's been treating me, when I'm the victim in all of this.

If she really is ace it’s not really a villian/victim situation in either direction.  It’s just an incompatibility, like wanting kids v. not wanting them.  Too bad her family can’t see that.  Also, too bad they can’t just stay out of it!

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Fallen Unicorn
4 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

I think people should be upfront about it.  

Perhaps, but by the time she did, it was too late?

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1 minute ago, Fallen Unicorn said:

Perhaps, but by the time she did, it was too late?

Well, you can’t tell people something until you know.  If she knew going in and wasn’t honest about it that - to me - is different than discovering/realizing it during the relationship.

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Fallen Unicorn
1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

If she really is ace it’s not really a villian/victim situation in either direction.  It’s just an incompatibility, like wanting kids v. not wanting them.  Too bad her family can’t see that.  Also, too bad they can’t just stay out of it!

Hell yeah, it's none of their business! And the incompatibility, whether she's ace or not, is more likely I think. My mother, despite being skeptical about the asexuality, does see it as being similar to a "kids vs. not wanting them" situation.

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Just now, Fallen Unicorn said:

it's none of their business!

Exactly.  You weren’t dating the family.

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Fallen Unicorn
2 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Well, you can’t tell people something until you know.  If she knew going in and wasn’t honest about it that - to me - is different than discovering/realizing it during the relationship.

I suppose, but she knew it made her uncomfortable for a while. She just thought that it was because feeling guilty of being sexual was a learned behavior when she was Mormon or something like that.

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I could see and understand parents getting involved if their teen is dating.

 

Some on AVEN, who now identify as sexuals, mentioned that, for a long time, they'd thought they were asexual; then, they met a person whom they felt comfortable having a sexual relationship with, who aroused them, etc. So, not everyone automatically knows their orientation.

 

Meanwhile, I've stuck with an asexual label and identity, even before I knew what asexuality was: I told others who were interested in dating me, having a sexual relationship, etc., that I wasn't into any of that, ever since I was a teen (I didn't know them at all; they were just strangers who thought I was attractive, apparently), even before I knew about asexuality. They still were trying to convince me to date them and have a physical relationship with them, saying that it was okay with them if I was just scared or frightened, that I just needed time to get used to being around them and that, eventually, I might feel a sexual attraction to them. Honestly, the fact that almost all of them were middle-aged men and I was a teen (or a lot younger than them at the time) was scary and confusing to me.

 

Even so, I think I would've liked to try kissing one of my friends, when I was a pre-teen, to see whether or not it might've brought on a romantic or sexual attraction. Without knowing whether or not I can feel romantic or sexual attraction to someone, depending on who they are, it's difficult to know for certain that I don't or wouldn't ever have a romantic or sexual attraction to a certain type of person whom I knew and was comfortable with.

 

It's kind of difficult for some who've never kissed or dated anyone to know or feel 100% sure about their romantic or sexual attraction. That's why some teens and young adults date and try having different romantic and sexual relationships with different people. 

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7 minutes ago, Fallen Unicorn said:

I suppose, but she knew it made her uncomfortable for a while. She just thought that it was because feeling guilty of being sexual was a learned behavior when she was Mormon or something like that.

I know it sucks but that does make sense.  Asexuality is pretty rare, at least compared to other causes for feeling uncomfortable in sexual situations, so I can see why she might have thought she just needed time to work past the effects of her upbringing.

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1 minute ago, InquisitivePhilosopher said:

I could see and understand parents getting involved if their teen is dating.

I should have been more specific.  My comments were directed to the family continuing to chastise and blame the OP after a breakup.  That’s where (regardless of age) I think they need to “butt out” and focus on comforting/supporting their own family member rather than going after her ex.

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5 minutes ago, InquisitivePhilosopher said:

Some on AVEN, who now identify as sexuals, mentioned that, for a long time, they'd thought they were asexual; then, they met a person whom they felt comfortable having a sexual relationship with, who aroused them, etc. So, not everyone automatically knows their orientation.

*nods*

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^^^ is very true. Before he met me my bf identified as aro ace then met me and identified as pandemiromantic ace and now identifies as pandemiroamntic and demisexual

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anisotrophic
39 minutes ago, Fallen Unicorn said:

I suppose, but she knew it made her uncomfortable for a while. She just thought that it was because feeling guilty of being sexual was a learned behavior when she was Mormon or something like that.

I have a lot of empathy with my partner not knowing. Plus we straight-up didn't know about asexuality, so he identified as bi, and his lack of desire always felt attributable to some more transient explanation. He's done pretty much everything he can do to make it better & I hope I do well enough for him. I love him for who he is & I'll keep adapting.

The choices aren't as easy in this situation, as we have kids, but I do think we're otherwise extremely good for each other. But being a sexual with an ace partner is a painful, sad thing to have, I wouldn't wish it on anyone... I view it as an accident that we'll do our best to live with, now.

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3 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

1. Generally, the definition of asexual on AVEN amounts to 'someone who would prefer not to have sex as part of a romantic relationship'.

2. Specifically in this case, Ryn was arguing that your partner saying she wanted only kisses and cuddles in a romantic relationship wasn't prima facie reason to think asexuality was involved. Where-ever you've ended up with your conclusions, obviously this occurred to you too or you wouldn't have come to AVEN. We'd kind of moved into a discussion of why this might apply more generally, too.

3. I'm only saying what countless asexuals have said, but for some reason, it gets a response involving labyrinthine reasons why it might not stand.

4. The only difference between me saying it and the times its generally accepted is that I'm not asexual.

 

And from that I drew my point...

Re point 1. Asexuality is not about preferring not to have sex. It's about not even thinking about it except when it is so to speak thrust in your face whether that be externally or within a relationship. Some asexuals have sex for all sorts of reasons....But it's not their motivation for a romantic relationship whether they realise they are different from the norm or not Some asexuals are aromantic so the question probably wouldn't arise. And most people sexual or not change about how they feel about romantic relationships over a lifetime depending on experience and how much they want a constant partner at any point or not. 

 

But apart from the inherent desire or lack of it i don't think it is possible to generalise about people's actions or motivations.

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5 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Of course it's possible to generalise about those things. You'd never be able to cross the street if you didn't generalise about people's motivations, and what they were likely to do next. We all get it close enough, enough of the time, that it's a pretty good way of proceeding.

Puzzled by the analogy. I cross the road based on knowledge of road traffic laws and experience of physics (ie speed). I don't think about what people are thinking about behind the wheel.

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