Fellow Sexuals

[cupid69]

On 9/28/2018 at 2:44 PM, ryn2 said:

 

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[ryn2]

 

20 minutes ago, Apostle said:

Sorry, I can' agree with that. A low libido sexual is going to have less sexual partner issues surely. The lack of and quantity/quality of sex is the main reason why sexuals complain as for them it is a core piece of intimacy with a partner.

I meant a relationship between two sexuals with greatly differing sex drives/expectations of sexual frequency.

 

Where I live libido is usually used as synonymous with “sex drive,” not as synonymous with “sexual desire.”  It’s used to mean how often the bodily urge for sexual satisfaction arises.

 

20 minutes ago, Apostle said:

Many asexuals have a sex drive, and many of them masturbate. But what makes them different is that their libido is dissociated from sexual attraction. Having a sex drive doesn’t translate into wanting sex. Put simply, there can be a sex drive, but not a drive towards anyone.

Would this sum up an asexual in general do you think?

Yes, this is what I meant.  I think we might just have been using the term libido differently.

[uhtred]

19 hours ago, ryn2 said:

If the absence of sex in a relationship happened in a vacuum and had no effect, this might be true.  It doesn’t “have no effect,” though, to alibali’s point.

 

Anything that has a significant negative effect on anyone in a relationship actually has a significant negative effect on the whole relationship and on all partners.

Often people are unaware of the root causes of problems in relationships.   An asexual with a partner who is disinterested, unromantic and unloving might never connect that with the lack of sex.  (to be clear, I'm not saying *all* asexuals, but rather that it can happen in individual cases).

[uhtred]

15 hours ago, IronHamster said:

I really think it is unethical to expect someone you claim to love to give up something they want.  

 

If an asexual loves their partner then they do not want to see them suffer.  They should actively help pursue sexual partners for their loved ones, or at least allow their partner to pursue sexual companions.  

 

If the asexual and sexual have a good strong relationship, the odds are the third partner will also get along with the asexual.  Love is not finite.  Just because it exists between two people it does not diminish when there are three.  

Works in some situations, but not others.  While it sounds "fun" to have sex with other people since my wife is generally not interested, in reality it is very likely I would fall in love with an alternate partner.  I'm not interested in sex with random people (just me, no objection to those who want it), but only with someone I really like and trust.  That leads to a situation that can too easily turn romantic rather than just sexual

[uhtred]

4 hours ago, alibali said:

Quite. I still only understand intellectually and I have had relationships on and off for over 30 years and have been out of a relationship now for 3 years. 

 

As an ace from both in and outside a relationship , it feels like sex is the only important thing to a sexual. Nothing else about the person matters and the resentment waves from the sexual overwhelmed the relationship (in my own situation anyway).

I can see how it feels like that.  I think though that more often sex is one of many *necessary* thinks in a relationship - but since its the thing that is missing, it seems all important.  If sex was good, but the partner wasn't doing their part with house chores or work, that would be the critical issue.  If the partner didn't bathe, then that might be.  If someone never wanted to do anything but sit on the sofa watching TV, or having sex, that would become the  issue. When someone has a list of necessary things, it is the one that is missing that gets all the attention.

 

From marriage discussion groups, sex is not the most common problem people have.  It is just a major issue in sexually mismatched relationships. 

[uhtred]

3 hours ago, Philip027 said:

So many people (not just sexuals, I mean everyone) are so... indirect and not-forthcoming with what it is they want, that this sort of thing happening isn't always that surprising.  As someone used to speaking my mind about things, I find this overall behavior perplexing, to say the least.  Sure, if the sexual person is very vocal about it on a daily basis and the ace remains supposedly clueless, that's one thing, but it isn't always that way...

 

I often see relationships in general treated like a huge mind game, where people make endless (often wildly inaccurate) inferences to what the other person actually wants, because that person won't (or it is assumed they won't) speak up about it themselves.  "Suffering in silence" is a concept that comes to mind here.

Can fail either way.  If the sexual asks too often, they are "pressuring" / "pestering".  If they don't ask enough, they aren't making things clear.  The root problem is that the asexual *doesn't want sex*.  They don't want sex if they are not asked, they don't want sex if they are asked. There is no action the sexual can take or not take to make the asexual want sex.   Its as if they were......asexual. 

 

Couples can run round and round, but deep down, sex is important to the sexual person, but is something the asexual doesn't want.   Neither of those is going to change. 

[cupid69]

On 9/28/2018 at 4:19 PM, uhtred said:

 

x

[alibali]

I'm so glad I decided to leave eventually.  He would never have left on principle.  Took 3 years to disentangle our lives....and we had adult children. For me it was the right decision. I hope I haven't ruined his life, but he was in his thirties when we met and in his fifties when we divorced so I can't be responsible for everything.

[ryn2]

1 hour ago, uhtred said:

Often people are unaware of the root causes of problems in relationships.   An asexual with a partner who is disinterested, unromantic and unloving might never connect that with the lack of sex.  (to be clear, I'm not saying *all* asexuals, but rather that it can happen in individual cases).

Completely agree but it still affects the relationship even when one or both partners doesn’t know why.

[ryn2]

1 hour ago, uhtred said:

Can fail either way.  If the sexual asks too often, they are "pressuring" / "pestering".  If they don't ask enough, they aren't making things clear.  The root problem is that the asexual *doesn't want sex*.  They don't want sex if they are not asked, they don't want sex if they are asked. There is no action the sexual can take or not take to make the asexual want sex.   Its as if they were......asexual. 

 

Couples can run round and round, but deep down, sex is important to the sexual person, but is something the asexual doesn't want.   Neither of those is going to change. 

Some couples are able to find ways to compromise.  The ones that can’t are doomed either way, sure, but the ones that potentially can won’t get there without discussion.

 

Even when a relationship is doomed having effective discussions around why helps with guilt, second-guessing, and other breakup pain.

[ryn2]

1 hour ago, uhtred said:

From marriage discussion groups, sex is not the most common problem people have.  It is just a major issue in sexually mismatched relationships. 

I’ve also heard it tends to become the way other issues are expressed.

[Wandering Around]

6 hours ago, ryn2 said:

Is that close?

IMHO, I think what you said is close @ryn2

[anisotrophic]

1 hour ago, ryn2 said:

Some couples are able to find ways to compromise.  The ones that can’t are doomed either way, sure, but the ones that potentially can won’t get there without discussion.

 

Even when a relationship is doomed having effective discussions around why helps with guilt, second-guessing, and other breakup pain.

+1000

I'm uncomfortable with broad statements about how mixed relationships are painful, doomed, and/or hopeless -- when these are made by people who heavily base it on their own experiences with a partner with whom they have had little to no discussion with on the topic of asexuality itself.

[Philip027]

3 hours ago, uhtred said:

Can fail either way.  If the sexual asks too often, they are "pressuring" / "pestering".  If they don't ask enough, they aren't making things clear.

This isn't really the sort of thing I'm talking about.  Yes, if you bring it up ad nauseam, it's badgering, but I'm talking about situations where it isn't directly brought up ever.  I also wasn't talking specifically about sex.

[Traveler40]

28 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

I'm uncomfortable with broad statements about how mixed relationships are painful, doomed, and/or hopeless -- when these are made by people who heavily base it on their own experiences with a partner with whom they have had little to no discussion with on the topic of asexuality itself.

@anisotropic it feels like assumptions  may be made that couples haven’t talked about it when in fact they have. Owning it and embracing it is another story and may be the cornerstone of your judgment?  

[anisotrophic]

1 minute ago, Traveler40 said:

@anisotropic it feels like assumptions  may be made that couples haven’t talked about it when in fact they have. Owning it and embracing it is another story and may be the cornerstone of your judgment?  

I've been asking in another thread and prefer not to be spending too much time on this site -- and I'd rather think and read and think again before responding, especially since I am aware that this stuff is painful -- so I want to apologize in advance if I'm unresponsive for a period after this.

 

I don't intend to make assumptions, I do try my best to observe what people say regarding how they communicate with partners, and I think that context matters. But I think I might be failing to be clear about what I wonder about -- and so maybe I'm not getting a clear picture on what I'm specifically thinking about here.

To re-quote myself: "discussion on the topic of asexuality itself". That is separate to (attempted) discussion about a lack/dissatisfaction with sex and intimacy with their partner.

[ryn2]

18 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

To re-quote myself: "discussion on the topic of asexuality itself". That is separate to (attempted) discussion about a lack/dissatisfaction with sex and intimacy with their partner.

Yeah, it seems like some people are talking about telling their partners what they want sexually and others are talking about discussing the way each partner experiences their sexuality - broader discussions where the partners get to know one another better.

 

Having the former without the latter seems more likely to lead to a bad place.

[Traveler40]

2 hours ago, ryn2 said:

Yeah, it seems like some people are talking about telling their partners what they want sexually and others are talking about discussing the way each partner experiences their sexuality - broader discussions where the partners get to know one another better.

I can’t speak for others, but this is assumption and conjecture.  All conversations have been had surrounding the issue in my home at least, but if a partner isn’t willing to identify it’s not something you can control.  It feels like @anisotropic is trying to make this inference to something deeper that just isn’t. 

 

I’ve historically had incredible and deep communication with my husband, yet he does not self identify as asexual. So?  Why look for this deeper meaning where I can attest to - at least in my home - there is none.  Making judgments and inference without knowledge gets complicated and I’m seeing it on different threads.  Maybe with more well developed thoughts, it will become clearer?  Not quite sure what to make of it. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Sally]

13 hours ago, Apostle said:

Aren't these rather broad unsubstantiated statements?

 

13 hours ago, Apostle said:

 

I don't honestly think that asexuals even consider the importance of sex with sexuals.

 

lol

[anisotrophic]

Stuff like this confuses the heck out of me. That communication seem to be so confused or lacking... that one partner thinks the other partner is browsing on AVEN... because they are wondering about their son.
 

 

[ryn2]

57 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

I can’t speak for others, but this is assumption and conjecture.

I can’t speak for others either but I was referring to posters who were quoting/paraphrasing conversations with their partners around what to do how often and how to best remember to do it.

 

I don’t think open communication will change how people self-identify but it can help partners understand one another.  I know that’s not always possible, and I know it doesn’t close all gaps.

 

I don’t get the impression when people are saying the key to any chance is communication that they mean (starting in, at least) with asking for specific sexual acts.

[Alder]

I'm sexual too, 

I came here to get more understanding, my fiance is not very sexual despite being attracted to me and since we're seeking counseling if it turns out she's asexual I want to be ready also my friend came out as asexual  so it got me curious about the whole thing

the cake is a LIE!! nvm got some

[alibali]

I wouldn't dream of extrapolating my own experience to everyone. However my experience has made me jaded and means I make assumptions about sexuals. This makes me pessimistic about relationships and I don't want to get involved with anyone.

[ryn2]

4 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

I might be wrong, but from what other sexual partners have posted, it sounds to me as though they've been through similar disengagement with their partners, so the working assumption from some asexual posters here that sexual partners are just moaning about lack of sex, or laying out plans for increasing sex, or that somehow asexuality partners aren't being invited to engage on their own terms, is starting to really piss me off.

I think we’re actually in a similar  spot.  A few of us have fairly unusual-sounding partner situations (or maybe we’re just pathologically patient).  We’re offended when others express doubt, and others are offended when we imply our situations could be common/typical and therefore might also apply to them.

 

I wasn’t referring just to your quoted conversation, though.  I only use AVEN on my phone so trying to go back to quote them all just isn’t happening.

[ryn2]

8 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Has anyone else actually posted fragments of conversation apart from me?

I’m not sure anyone else posted real/simulated convos in this thread, but people have in other, similar threads.  Several others have also described conversations with their partners and/or mentioned the topics discussed.

 

Occasionally I see things like this:

”Have you really talked to your partner about this?  Does partner know how difficult it is for you?”

”Of course!  I asked partner to initiate more often at least once a month for years, but then I gave up because nothing changed.”

 

That’s what I was talking about.  Without more background information, it seems like person 2 (incorrectly) thinks they’re actually doing what person 1 is suggesting...

[cupid69]

On 9/28/2018 at 6:01 PM, ryn2 said:

 

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[cupid69]

On 9/29/2018 at 12:27 AM, anisotropic said:

 

 

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[ryn2]

2 hours ago, Apostle said:

To a sexual, if any sexual contact is happening then because there is no desire involved from the asexual then the sex is void as it is not consensual.

From what I’ve read here some sexuals feel this way and others do not.

 

To compromise is to settle a disgreement by each making concessions.  I’m not seeing how it doesn’t fit, or fits only offensively, but if the general consensus is that we should use a different term I’m okay with doing so.

[ryn2]

19 minutes ago, Apostle said:

You're confused because you are not sexual.

Were you directing this to me or anisotropic?  The latter is sexual.  I’m still sorting out what I am.

[cupid69]

On 10/1/2018 at 11:20 AM, ryn2 said:

 

 

On 10/1/2018 at 11:19 AM, ryn2 said:

 

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