Fellow Sexuals

[anisotrophic]

13 hours ago, ryn2 said:

I give people (on both sides, and both partners) the benefit of the doubt here because it’s typically only half the couple posting.

Huh. It occurs to me to wonder how often people's partners know about their posting here. Mine knows, he's just not super into it. If someone complains that a partner is uncommunicative/ avoidant but doesn't want them to know about chatting on AVEN... is that consistent?

[Imherjoel27]

I read the posts to her actually

[ryn2]

43 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

Huh. It occurs to me to wonder how often people's partners know about their posting here. Mine knows, he's just not super into it. If someone complains that a partner is uncommunicative/ avoidant but doesn't want them to know about chatting on AVEN... is that consistent?

It would certainly underscore the general idea that there’s a communication (and perhaps trust) issue between the partners.

[Sally]

On 7/31/2018 at 1:53 AM, Apostle said:

Obviously your experience of women is different than mine. I'm only speaking from my experience, as can you.

Then you should say "In my experience, I've noticed that..." rather than making generalizations like "Women are..." and "Men are...".  

[ryn2]

2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Or, they're discussing the best way to handle a situation with other people who've been in a similar place, to make sure their communication is as effective as possible. 

But if that (actually, or feels like it) has to be kept secret there’s probably a larger issue.

[ryn2]

There’s a difference between not saying everything you want/need to say (venting, etc.) directly to your partner and hiding the fact that you’re saying things elsewhere.

 

It’s the latter I was calling further evidence of a communication/trust issue, not the former.

[ryn2]

11 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

What if they'd be hurt by the idea you were letting off steam or asking for help, and them knowing would just make the situation worse?

I’m guessing some folks use this excuse, to themselves and others, when the real issue is that they don’t want to “get in trouble” or have the conversation about it.

 

Again, not commenting at all on the need to get advice, blow off steam, share stories, find cameraderie, etc... just saying that not being able/choosing not to mention being on here is probably further indicative of communication/trust issues in the relationship.

 

E.g., seeking therapy - there’s clearly nothing wrong with it, and it could be very helpful.  Needing, or feeling as though one needs, to do so behind a partner’s back says there’s probably a communication or trust problem in there somewhere.

[ryn2]

20 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

There probably is, but I don't think not telling someone is necessarily going to make it worse or is a bad thing.

Wasn’t meaning to imply the above... just agreeing with sally that there are probably people on here “in secret” and saying that’s further indicative of issues in the relationship.

[ryn2]

4 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Yeah, I'm one of them, and the issues aren't mine.

Issues in a relationship are everyone in the relationship’s... even if one person is “causing” them the other(s) is (are) reacting, allowing, affected, etc.  Otherwise they wouldn’t be issues.  If your wife lets the dirty dishes pile up for weeks but you couldn’t care less, no issue.

 

Hence why you’re opting to leave, probably.

[ryn2]

It’s probably not an equally shared issue, and it’s probably not 100% one person’s issue.  Either way, you’ve found a solution that will hopefully help you.

[Guest Jetsun Milarepa]

Moving on is good. I always burn bridges and never look back. 

[cupid69]

On 8/4/2018 at 1:10 PM, Telecaster68 said:

 

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[SusannaC]

Tele, i don’t believe for a minute you are equally responsible..... any more than I am.  I will accept responsibility for choosing to marry and stay with my spouse, to try and honor a commitment.  When an integral part of that relationship (that I wanted and thought I had)disappeared, I remained with him and denied my own feelings... because of commitment and children.  Because I believed and still do, that it was better for the kids, and they had no part at ALL in creating this problem.  Now every case is different, but I’d say most people-here- esp you, are outspoken and intelligent enough to  know that silence does not help create change.  I know I tried to discuss, reason and do any number of futile exercises over the years to address the situation.  Some people are just unwilling or unable to compromise, and that is their right to refuse.  Call me an accomplice to a failed relationship if you will- but I will never accept blame for the creation of the problem or the pain it has caused me.

[ryn2]

15 minutes ago, SusannaC said:

Call me an accomplice to a failed relationship if you will- but I will never accept blame for the creation of the problem or the pain it has caused me.

In your case as you describe there really isn’t blame; just two people realizing they’re incompatible in a way they didn’t initially recognize and each choosing a path forward based on that.  We’re responsible for our own choices but not to blame for our partner’s choices.

 

My comment to tele was based on the discussion around who’s “at fault” when a couple does not communicate effectively (and to what degree each person does or doesn’t get a pass due to mental health issues and the like).

[SusannaC]

Actually my sweet and at times bull headed husband would say he is completely happy and he IS!!... I have tried very hard to make the best of the situation over the years, and create a close family unit.  As Apostle said- I don’t resent my spouse for who he is- and he has many strong and admirable qualities.  He is unable to change this part of who he is- and I don’t believe it’s fair of me to expect that change now.  He could have opened up about the issue- tried to see my side- or acknowledge my pain years ago- but that did not happen as I remember.   

As far as mental health issues go: I have depression- always have- and suppressing/denying a basic need over so many years has definitely  taken it’s  toll on my mental health.  My husband, on the contrary, has no mental health issues - though I’ve long suspected he has a touch of Aspergers.  He is mostly a happy self engrossed individual.

[alibali]

4 minutes ago, SusannaC said:

Actually my sweet and at times bull headed husband would say he is completely happy and he IS!!... I have tried very hard to make the best of the situation over the years, and create a close family unit.  As Apostle said- I don’t resent my spouse for who he is- and he has many strong and admirable qualities.  He is unable to change this part of who he is- and I don’t believe it’s fair of me to expect that change now.  He could have opened up about the issue- tried to see my side- or acknowledge my pain years ago- but that did not happen as I remember.   

As far as mental health issues go: I have depression- always have- and suppressing/denying a basic need over so many years has definitely  taken it’s  toll on my mental health.  My husband, on the contrary, has no mental health issues - though I’ve long suspected he has a touch of Aspergers.  He is mostly a happy self engrossed individual.

I think in order to see the side of someone who is sexual, to truly understand it, you need to be sexual.  If you don't feel it how can either side acknowledge something in anything but an abstract way, which will never be genuine.

 

I feel (as an asexual) that I've missed out on something fundamental, but I don't really understand what I am missing. It's an abstract concept. And it is something you can't help, just like being sexual is something you can't help. It's unfortunate that the person you wanted to spend your life with doesn't feel the same way as you do about sex....blame implies a deliberate immoral decision on the part of one person in a partnership.

[SusannaC]

Agreed.  He is not immoral and his withdrawal from sex was not done deliberately to harm me.  Took me a long time to accept this fact.... and wasn’t easy or without pain, coming to that realization. Was a freeing feeling though- because I was able to let go of my anger.   I accept him and love him for who he is.  Just can not deny who i am, anymore either.

[ryn2]

Which is why communication is important.  The asexual partner isn’t going to automatically know what their partner is missing (which may vary from person to person anyway) and - without a common frame of reference - may well not deduce it from the kind of indirect hints and cues another sexual might recognize.

[SusannaC]

Nor will the sexual know why the asexual is so uninterested in, or avoiding sexual.  For sexual people like myself- this is an essential need.  It’s not like leaving dirty dishes in the sink.  When this sort of breakdown occurs- I as a woman wondered all sorts of things: was it me?  Was I doing something to cause him to not want me? Was I no longer attractive?  Was there somebody else?   I wondered and doubted and the conversations were awkward and many excuses were made.  So yes, communication is essential but doesn’t always happen effectively.  

[ryn2]

13 minutes ago, SusannaC said:

So yes, communication is essential but doesn’t always happen effectively.

Absolutely, but assuming there’s a common “language” or understanding, spoken or non, is only going to contribute to that ineffectiveness.  An asexual who isn’t reading here would have no way of knowing, for example, that a decrease in sex or apparent sexual interest is likely to be interpreted as a significant sign that something’s wrong... or that someone suggesting sex in an indirect way (even “hey, do you want to have sex?” instead of “I want to have sex, are you game?”) and then being quiet and “off” when the hint is missed or the response is “no thanks” is feeling significantly rejected in a way that might damage the relationship.  Those things may be “duhs” to a lot of sexuals but they are “weird factoids” that have to be memorized and kept in conscious awareness for a lot of aces.

 

[ryn2]

23 minutes ago, SusannaC said:

It’s not like leaving dirty dishes in the sink.

It’s not the presence of those dirty dishes in the sink that’s corrosive... it’s the accompanying sense, for a partner who has cajoled and reminded and traded off and made lists and asked for best ways to bring it up at therapy sessions and on and on and on, of either not being heard or being heard but disregarded.

 

So in that way it seems like it’s very much like dirty dishes in the sink.

[SusannaC]

Dirty dishes are trivial compared to this issue of course. I can take care of dirty dishes easily- and do- for many years.  Since they bother me seemingly more than the other members of the home, I will address them myself.  Dirty dishes can’t cause me grief and despair or loneliness. Certainly haven’t left me feeling incomplete or found myself looking at other relationships because of dishes.  I found it easy to be proactive about dishes in the sink years ago, but the dilemma discussed here was much more challenging and not one I could solve alone.

[ryn2]

5 minutes ago, SusannaC said:

Dirty dishes are trivial compared to this issue of course. I can take care of dirty dishes easily- and do- for many years.  Since they bother me seemingly more than the other members of the home, I will address them myself.  Dirty dishes can’t cause me grief and despair or loneliness. Certainly haven’t left me feeling incomplete or found myself looking at other relationships because of dishes.  I found it easy to be proactive about dishes in the sink years ago, but the dilemma discussed here was much more challenging and not one I could solve alone.

...and yet there are plenty of people out there who have broken up over dirty dishes, capless toothpaste, open toilet lids, etc... so they probably carry deeper meaning for some folks.

[SusannaC]

My guess would be maybe the emotional cup gets filled to overflowing..... maybe all those little things add up and on top of the bigger stuff (like problems with intimacy), so that continuing a relationship becomes too much for some folks.    It’s an individual choice and an individual boundary I suppose.  

[ohmygosh]

5 hours ago, SusannaC said:

Agreed.  He is not immoral and his withdrawal from sex was not done deliberately to harm me.  Took me a long time to accept this fact.... and wasn’t easy or without pain, coming to that realization. Was a freeing feeling though- because I was able to let go of my anger.   I accept him and love him for who he is.  Just can not deny who i am, anymore either.

Girl, it all but destroyed me, going through this.  Being a 33 year old newly-wed with my 29 year old spouse... I could not figure out why he never could show me that he loved me! 

 

And, to top it off, my mom had a stroke... so I moved her in and took on her burden. 

 

I can look look back at last year as a devastating time...I wanted to stop living.  My siblings criticed everything I did and isolated me over the Mom issue.  They assumed my growing stress with my spouse was my fault also.  

 

I did so so many great things in getting my mom a lawyer, settling her old school bills, and even the daily rehab. 

 

I was so so depressed I couldn’t even give myself a pat on the back for all I was doing.  All I knew is that I felt useless and was dying inside. 

 

My spouse’s lack of understanding- that broke me completely. 

 

I really did breakdown. 

 

I am okay in seeing this and speaking my truth today.  I am FINALLY getting to a point where I accept that this dude did not prioritize me AND that was not okay. 

 

Sure, he didn’t know how to do so... blah blah blah. 

 

Now, I can accept that I didn’t know how to make things work on his level.  I can accept that he was a dick for not trying and I was a dickhead for not knowing how to understand his world. 

 

I accept (now) more everyday that being educated, knowing, wanting is all subjective to what I actually could cope with.  I can’t change that about me anymore than he can change himself. 

[SusannaC]

Life can get in the way, throwing many problems at us at once, sometimes.  I’ve been there, too.  So it’s not always easy to sort out what is really going on with a clear head.... The answers often take time to figure out, and can be painful.  

[ohmygosh]

That’s right.  

[cupid69]

On 8/7/2018 at 12:57 AM, ryn2 said:

 

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[ryn2]

They’re all - not that differently from sexual mismatch the way some of you describe it - places a lack of emotional/other intimacy show,

[cupid69]

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