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2 minutes ago, uhtred said:

I'd say that it has nothing whatsoever to do with blame, its all about compatibility?  Can you be happy without sex (or with minimal sex) for the rest of your life? You do your partner no favors by sacrificing their happiness to them, because if they love you, that is the last thing that they would want.   

 

Unfortunately this is a situation where each may have a very difficult time understanding how the other feels.  To a sexual person,  there is this sense of "why can't he/she just XYZ,  is is so much to ask?" and for the asexual person to feel "is sex all he / she cares about, isn't love supposed to be much more important". 

 

 

Yes, that is typically how our discussions go. She doesn't feel like she can make me happy, and, to an extent, she is right. Even if everything else is perfect in our relationship, this is a big drawback. It's not something I can easily live without. 

 

The first 3 years of our relationship was amazing, and perfect. But this is only because she would be intimate with me often enough (without telling me that it is breaking her spirit). But when she told me that it does, it all went downhill from there. It's like everything froze and now I can't have the relationship back the way I really want it. I am constantly swinging back and forth between celibacy and ending it (the relationship, not me). Thank you for taking the time to respond, it means more than you think.

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20 hours ago, WhiteFringe said:

even if I end it, I still want to be part of her life and be her friend

Poly isn't just about sex, it's not really about sex in the end – some aces identify as poly (you might want to read "More Than Two" to understand it better). It's about continuing to love one person when you potentially start to love another. After you move past infatuation and new relationship energy, at some point the distinctions between deep friendship (no "just" about it) and romantic love become very blurry and break down.

You've ruled open/poly out because you don't think she'd be OK with it, but it doesn't sound like you should continue indefinitely in this current state. Nor does it sound like you want to lose what you have now. I don't recommend cheating (i.e. hiding anything), but I think it might be necessary for you to change this relationship – whether that gets characterized as "poly" or "breaking up, but continuing a deep friendship".

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9 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

 

 

 

After you move past infatuation and new relationship energy, at some point the distinctions between deep friendship (no "just" about it) and romantic love become very blurry and break down.

For some it does. For many it doesnt. After 10 years the lines for me never blurred in my longest relationship. I doubt they ever would blur to me. One reason many people cannot do poly. Their romantic love is strong for life, very distinguishable and for a singular person, not to be shared. 

 

But if both the poster and their partner are OK with shifting the relationship then it can work. It just can be difficult depending on how people feel about it. It's a discussion to have though for sure. 

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2 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

Poly isn't just about sex, it's not really about sex in the end – some aces identify as poly (you might want to read "More Than Two" to understand it better). It's about continuing to love one person when you potentially start to love another. After you move past infatuation and new relationship energy, at some point the distinctions between deep friendship (no "just" about it) and romantic love become very blurry and break down.

You've ruled open/poly out because you don't think she'd be OK with it, but it doesn't sound like you should continue indefinitely in this current state. Nor does it sound like you want to lose what you have now. I don't recommend cheating (i.e. hiding anything), but I think it might be necessary for you to change this relationship – whether that gets characterized as "poly" or "breaking up, but continuing a deep friendship".

Yes, I agree with you, but it makes it difficult, because my girlfriend doesn't even understand her own emotions, meaning that any new development in our relationship would make her extremely uncomfortable (regardless of the change, ). Even if she rationally understands why this is a better option, emotionally, she won't be able to cope with a poly/open relationship. She is very possessive in our relationship and definitely won't "share" me with anyone.

 

I don't fully know how to articulate my situation without being somewhat inaccurate, because she is a complex creature and even after 5 years of knowing her, her emotions, thoughts and rationale still puzzle me. Now, I would also prefer not to have a poly relationship, but might be fine with an open one.

 

. . .If she's upset when we're intimate, upset when she's not (because she sees it is affecting me), but doesn't want to be intimate in any sexual way, but says she would to keep me happy (which I don't want, since it make the experience fake and only to please me, which is selfish; then what else is there but to end it?)

 

Can I honestly be celibate for the rest of my life for the sake of my girlfriend? Most probably not. Can we find a suitable, monogamous compromise? I doubt it. We have a deep relationship aside from sexual, and whenever I ask her if she can tell me what separates a romantic relationship from a friendship, she can't reply with words. Only mumbles. 

 

This means that we might as well be friends, because not much (in terms of relationship dynamics, aside from certain physical intimacies like kissing) would change. Thus it must be the best option to either be friends and find more suitable partners, or consider an open relationship. Am I wrong? I am sorry for taking you on this thought process, but my mind is all over the place the last couple of days regarding this to find the optimal solution that would benefit everyone.

 

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@WhiteFringe your thought process is clear, methodical and accounts for both the bigger picture and longer term. I agree with your assessments and drill down. Sex is an integral part of who you are, and you’ve said numerous times that you can’t live without it.
 

Open seems complicated given the element of possessive, and celibacy isn’t an option. So that leaves break up and become friends (which you already are mainly) or find some mutual agreement. I’m not sure that’s been fully vetted yet based on what you say, but the struggle will always be part of your dynamic regardless.

 

You're processing and that’s good. We all have our own choices and journeys. Just be true to what you need and don’t quiet that. I second @anisotrophic‘s sentiments: A change in the relationship status makes sense, whether that be a break out of the romantic into a friendship or some mutually agreed upon allowance to meet your needs.

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49 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

@WhiteFringe your thought process is clear, methodical and accounts for both the bigger picture and longer term. I agree with your assessments and drill down. Sex is an integral part of who you are, and you’ve said numerous times that you can’t live without it.
 

Open seems complicated given the element of possessive, and celibacy isn’t an option. So that leaves break up and become friends (which you already are mainly) or find some mutual agreement. I’m not sure that’s been fully vetted yet based on what you say, but the struggle will always be part of your dynamic regardless.

 

You're processing and that’s good. We all have our own choices and journeys. Just be true to what you need and don’t quiet that. I second @anisotrophic‘s sentiments: A change in the relationship status makes sense, whether that be a break out of the romantic into a friendship or some mutually agreed upon allowance to meet your needs.

Thank you for the reply. At face value it seems like an obvious choice, but unfortunately there are just too many factors in my relationship that I didn't mention in the forum posts because it might be too long. These complicate my decision further. When I see her again, we'll need to honestly discuss all the factors and see what we can work out. I really hope we can come to a mutual agreement on this. All I want is for her to be happy.

Edited by WhiteFringe
ambiguity
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3 minutes ago, Expedition said:

@WhiteFringeyour gf sounds very like my ex wife. Once we split up, she seemed happier, presumably because of the lack of pressure of being in a relationship. 

Maybe, I don't know. It's difficult to imagine my girlfriend happy without me, or happy with me without me being celibate or having my right hand as the only means of intimacy.

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From what you've said, she's comfortable with a friendship level of relationship even if she doesn't label it as such, so all you'd be doing is making that official. 

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37 minutes ago, Expedition said:

From what you've said, she's comfortable with a friendship level of relationship even if she doesn't label it as such, so all you'd be doing is making that official. 

Even if that were true, It would still change our future plans.

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1 hour ago, anisotrophic said:

@WhiteFringe if you feel like it's too much to unpack in this thread, please feel free to start a new topic for yourself!

Yes, I created a new topic called Mixed Relationship Advice.

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4 hours ago, Serran said:

 

For some it does. For many it doesnt. After 10 years the lines for me never blurred in my longest relationship. I doubt they ever would blur to me. One reason many people cannot do poly. Their romantic love is strong for life, very distinguishable and for a singular person, not to be shared. 

 

But if both the poster and their partner are OK with shifting the relationship then it can work. It just can be difficult depending on how people feel about it. It's a discussion to have though for sure. 

It’s also challenging because it really does seem to be a hardwired thing; some people are capable of romantically loving multiple people at once, others are not.

 

So, while learned societal biases can be evaluated and worked past, there is sometimes still a mismatch underneath.

 

It’s definitely a conversation worth having, though.

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It's difficult. I don't think you can make her happy without being unhappy yourself. 

 

I am happy now I have accepted never again having a romantic relationship with anyone (i am divorced).  I have deep friendships with both men and women but there are times I wish I could have a proper hug from a man or I knew someone was always going to be there, but better miss out on that than feel pressured about sex. Asexuals who are happy being on their own still sacrifice some part of their need for relationships.

 

Its a conundrum but one your gf is going to have to address at some point even if you stay together.

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On 2/4/2020 at 4:22 AM, WhiteFringe said:

whether she is asexual or not, she definitely is. We have been together for over 4 years now, but it's been quite tough on the both of us. I am very sexual (seriously, with no doubt, as straight as an arrow). This caused problems more recently than it ever has, because even though we were sexually engaging with each other, she never before expressed how much she doesn't like it (aside from feeling neutral about things, nothing that I thought would constitute as being serious). We've never had sex, because she asked that we wait until we are in a better place in our lives with our own house.

I know I've addressed your situation in your own post, but I thought it fair to warn you, based on what I read in this post: sex to her is very likely going to be the means to an end, that end being the number of children she wants or is willing to have. You will likely have all of the sex you could possibly want, leading up to pregnancy and birth, but once that purpose is served, expect sex to go back to nearly, or entirely, non-existent. You've posted it here, yourself, she is definitely asexual, and you are definitely very sexual. Again, this was all addressed in the other post, but I saw a carrot being dangled before you here, and thought you should see it for what it is.

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On 1/31/2020 at 11:14 AM, Violet1920 said:

I feel used and most of all I feel insanely unattractive. He says that he finds me aesthetically attractive, which I also don’t understand, I don’t think I’d be able to understand no matter how many times he explained it to me.

I know how this feels for you, I've felt it, myself. My wife (asexual) knows I am physically attractive, she recognizes it, she acknowledges it, but it does absolutely nothing for her in terms of being sexually attracted. At times I felt used, like she knew OTHERS wanted me, so she wanted me all to herself, so as not to be missing out. I felt like the sex we had was just to trap me, and she never enjoyed me sexually, at all, rather she just enjoyed that she had a good looking man with her. Of course this is just how I FELT, and perhaps there is truth to it, but the other truth is that she wants to be with ME, the PERSON I am. I'm sure you know you're attractive, and I'm sure you're reminded of it by others. Your BF finds you attractive, it's just that sex is not his way of expressing it. You can't let yourself feel sexually rejected by someone who doesn't desire ANYONE sexually. I hope that helps a little.

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2 hours ago, Sinking_In said:

I know I've addressed your situation in your own post, but I thought it fair to warn you, based on what I read in this post: sex to her is very likely going to be the means to an end, that end being the number of children she wants or is willing to have. You will likely have all of the sex you could possibly want, leading up to pregnancy and birth, but once that purpose is served, expect sex to go back to nearly, or entirely, non-existent. You've posted it here, yourself, she is definitely asexual, and you are definitely very sexual. Again, this was all addressed in the other post, but I saw a carrot being dangled before you here, and thought you should see it for what it is.

Children were never on our minds. We always expressed that we don't want children. 

 

2 hours ago, Sinking_In said:

I know how this feels for you, I've felt it, myself. My wife (asexual) knows I am physically attractive, she recognizes it, she acknowledges it, but it does absolutely nothing for her in terms of being sexually attracted. At times I felt used, like she knew OTHERS wanted me, so she wanted me all to herself, so as not to be missing out. I felt like the sex we had was just to trap me, and she never enjoyed me sexually, at all, rather she just enjoyed that she had a good looking man with her. Of course this is just how I FELT, and perhaps there is truth to it, but the other truth is that she wants to be with ME, the PERSON I am. I'm sure you know you're attractive, and I'm sure you're reminded of it by others. Your BF finds you attractive, it's just that sex is not his way of expressing it. You can't let yourself feel sexually rejected by someone who doesn't desire ANYONE sexually. I hope that helps a little.

Also, I understand what you are saying. (it's my girlfriend btw,). She wants to be with me as a person, and I, too want to be with her as a person, but something as fundamental as this will break us in the long run and only make us unhappy.  Thank you for being honest. Regardless of her not expressing what she feels in a sexual way, it's very difficult to not feel somewhat rejected, even if you understand her situation. If you have a condition where your arm spasms every now and again and hits me, I can understand it, but surely after a while I'd begin to get frustrated from being hit all the time.

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11 hours ago, WhiteFringe said:

Children were never on our minds. We always expressed that we don't want children. 

Either way, have zero expectations of sex following marriage. I think you're seeing this all pretty clearly, now, and it sounds like you want off this ride. You're just figuring out how to go about doing that. I wish you both well, actually!

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15 hours ago, Sinking_In said:

sex to her is very likely going to be the means to an end, that end being the number of children she wants or is willing to have

This struck me as a bit stereotype-y, along the lines of "men want sex, women just give them that" and "women want children, men just give them that". Plus a lump of "women use sex to get what they want from men". It seems overly cynical and a tad sexist to frame it like this.

 

I mean, obviously male aces exist. And men can want to be parents too; I'm pretty sure I've seen male aces post wondering about if they'll ever be able to have kids.

Another factor at play is the presence new relationship energy & how that can make sex "easier" for some ace folks. If a couple goes through "meet, marry, have a kid" one after the other, I wonder if that die-off of NRE might get conflated with the timeline of events. And the added burden of childrearing making sex even more of a chore: it's pretty typical for sexual/sexual couples to have sex life troubles around the same stuff!

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I'm pretty sure I've seen male aces post wondering about if they'll ever be able to have kids.

*raises hand*

 

That thought was easier to deal with on account of the fact that I didn't even WANT kids during the portion of my life I was wondering about that, but hey...

 

"NRE" is still a great mystery to me, though.

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@anisotrophic it might be stereotypical, but it doesn't just go for aces, there are folks who literally only use sex for procreation and not for pleasure. My point was he shouldn't expect procreation sex to be the new sexual norm, should things go in that direction. I meant no offense, though I suppose it definitely could be offensive.

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@anisotrophic also, it was the way the OP framed it:

17 hours ago, Sinking_In said:

We've never had sex, because she asked that we wait until we are in a better place in our lives with our own house.

To me that put purpose to the sex, but perhaps I read into it wrong (as @WhiteFringe later clarified kids are not part of the future picture, though that too can change in time for some couples)

 

2 hours ago, anisotrophic said:

Another factor at play is the presence new relationship energy & how that can make sex "easier" for some ace folks. If a couple goes through "meet, marry, have a kid" one after the other, I wonder if that die-off of NRE might get conflated with the timeline of events. And the added burden of childrearing making sex even more of a chore: it's pretty typical for sexual/sexual couples to have sex life troubles around the same stuff!

This is entirely true of many couples of all kinds of backgrounds, for sure. In fact, this was why I didn't immediately jump to "asexuality" as the reason for my own dead bedroom. I chalked it up to all of the above, first, just because it does in fact happen. Thank you for adding that.

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2 hours ago, Sinking_In said:

perhaps I read into it wrong

I read it as “someplace where we have privacy” but it could mean a range of things.

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2 hours ago, ryn2 said:

I read it as “someplace where we have privacy”

I can see that, and now I'm reading it as simply being one of many steps to adulting.

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On 1/31/2020 at 7:14 PM, Violet1920 said:

But most of all I feel like I’ve been lied to and I’m having a hard time getting over the fact that he basically tested his sexuality out on me to figure out if he was asexual or not.

Very common occurrence with asexuals I'm afraid.

 

On 1/31/2020 at 7:14 PM, Violet1920 said:

he says he will have sex with me for “my sake” but I don’t want to have sex with someone who’s just having sex to please me.

Again, very common in sexual/asexual relationships. It's such a shame but no surprise to me having been in the same situation for years. If you're young enough with no ties you will probably regret your situation for the rest of your life if you stay in this relationship. Move on - there are plenty more fish in the sea for you to share your life with and be completely fulfilled.

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Fallen Unicorn
On 2/28/2020 at 8:18 AM, CBC said:

Well ain't that a loaded question. 😂 

 

Ever have a period of your life where somehow everything is the same goddamn unremarkable mundanity every single day but you're also like... this is chaos and I have no idea what's happening? Because... that.

 

giphy.gif
 

I'm trying to learn to enjoy it somehow, haha. I have my ways.

 

How are you doing?

Doing alright, single and trying to find more friends, which is difficult when we're all stuck in our homes, but what can you do.

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AshenPhoenix
On 4/6/2020 at 8:16 AM, Serran said:

Trying to navigate LDR sexually when not used to it is... tricky...

Oh boy, this isn't fun under the best of circumstances. It can feel awkward or distant, not enough or simply inconvenient. I obviously don't know the specifics but my general advice would be just try and find whatever works best for y'all, a lot of people think there are certain ways to go about this sort of thing and it boils down to whatever gets y'all there best.

 

Was in that situation for years though, if you need any advice or an ear gimme a shout

 

(also, Hi serran!)

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8 minutes ago, AshenPhoenix said:

Oh boy, this isn't fun under the best of circumstances. It can feel awkward or distant, not enough or simply inconvenient. I obviously don't know the specifics but my general advice would be just try and find whatever works best for y'all, a lot of people think there are certain ways to go about this sort of thing and it boils down to whatever gets y'all there best.

 

Was in that situation for years though, if you need any advice or an ear gimme a shout

 

(also, Hi serran!)

Haha thanks. It's mostly just... we both are worried about pressuring the other and so neither of us ends up asking when we both wanna do something... and IRL it's hard enough even being able to read body language and online it's even harder !

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