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In that scenario I would argue that you should behave as though it actually *is* fine because otherwise you are just teaching them they can say and do whatever they want and still get you to “mind-read” for them... but maybe this gets back into what’s expected/polite some places is considered childish and manipulative in other places.

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Just now, Telecaster68 said:

Is it your job to teach them anything? You're presuming your way of 'uninflected words only' is superior, and I'd say it isn't, in many ways.

It’s your “job” (responsibility) to teach them how you are willing to be treated.

 

So, I guess the question is really “does their indirect way of handling things bother you?”  If it doesn’t, then there’s no reason to let them know it’s not okay.

 

If it does bother you that they’re saying one thing and evidently meaning another, then you need to show/teach them it’s not a game you are willing to play.

 

Letting it continue while complaining about how much it sucks (in general, I mean - not talking about anything you’ve said) doesn’t accomplish anything.

 

E.g., suppose someone is always late and that frustrates you.  Grumbling about it but allowing it is teaching them it’s actually okay with you.  Leaving when you said you were going to even though they aren’t there, on the other hand, shows you actually aren’t okay with it.

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It’s not about superior or inferior.  It’s more about boundaries.  If you don’t want your partner to yell at you, you leave the conversation when yelling starts.  If you don’t want to be pouted into doing things you don’t want to do, you ignore pouting.  Etc.

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5 hours ago, Philip027 said:

This sort of shit has always pissed me the hell off, when people wouldn't believe that I really was feeling fine and were seemingly insistent on creating a problem where none existed.  Okay then, I'm not fine anymore, because you're getting on my fucking nerves with asking me a question and not accepting the answer I give...

Well, its not a mutually understood inside joke for you and those people either. 😛 If we want to make it a clear "not a joke", we have an agreement that promise means cant dodge / cover / lie so promise means take me at my word. 

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15 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

martyred standing on principles is just going to work out harder for the martyr than figuring out body language, subtext etc

That depends on how easily the “martyr” can do all that.  For some people it’s not easy.

 

16 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

this 'mind-reading' thing annoys the fuck out of me.

Therapists here routinely say “You can’t expect people to know what you want if you don’t tell them.  They’re not mind-readers.”

 

If there’s another term for “expecting others to intuit your thoughts from your behaviors” that works better for you, I’m happy to use it instead.

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18 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

You're insisting the onus is on them to be verbally explicit. They want you to read their body language, tone of voice, factor in context. Both are legitimate ways to communicate, and you're just dismissing their version because it doesn't conform to yours.

Again, it only applies if it’s a problem.  If you enjoy, or are at least fine with, picking someone’s meaning out of their actions - and they are fine with being interpreted that way - it’s not an issue.

 

If it’s something that doesn’t work for you, pretending it does won’t actually solve the problem.

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1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

If someone says 'Fine!' in an angry tone of voice while frowning, and previous conversations have indicated they generally don't think whatever it is, is fine, then you're just using all available data in deciding what they're saying.

That's an exaggeration and obvious sarcasm.  I have said "fine" often before in a perfectly normal, unsarcastic, unangry tone of voice and have still encountered disbelief, as if the term inherently means "not actually fine" -- which is, you have to admit, completely ridiculous and definitely not fine.

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If you're talking about communication in general yep people use all sorts of ways to communicate some of which are really quite damaging to people who want to communicate with trust and honesty. There is nothing like saying what you really mean to people. "Fine" in the above contexts can be sarcastic, passive aggressive, manipulative etc. It can also really mean Fine too. I would rather be silent than waste my time by saying positive things in a negative way.

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On 2/26/2019 at 12:47 AM, alibali said:

 

If you're talking about communication in general yep people use all sorts of ways to communicate some of which are really quite damaging to people who want to communicate with trust and honesty.

 

I have a habit of telling it like it is and don’t lie as a general rule, yet if someone angers me enough (my Dad in particular) I somewhat enjoy “keeping it real”. With that said, brutal honesty can be quite mean. Many things are better left unsaid and language can cut like a knife. While I realize this, I can’t help but push back when boxed in. Though not upset per se, I do get laser focused and hyper logical which isn’t kind at times.

 

Not going for the jugular when trapped - working on it!

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On 2/19/2019 at 5:22 PM, Sally said:

It's amazing anyone can talk to anyone else.  

This reminded me of a moment while living abroad in my youth and 4 of us were at a bar.

 

Australian #1: Oh yeah, he’s hilarious in a dicky!

Me: 😳

Australian #2: Um, you know, trunks?

Me: 🤔

Canadian: Maybe you just say swimming suit!?!

Me: 💡. Ahhhh! Got it!

 

A few beers later, and I’m not sure anyone was even that clear.  I kept asking why one guy was so angry? I couldn’t understand as he kept saying he was pissed. 🤷🏻‍♀️

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11 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

This reminded me of a moment while living abroad in my youth and 4 of us were at a bar.

 

Australian #1: Oh yeah, he’s hilarious in a dicky!

Me: 😳

Australian #2: Um, you know, trunks?

Me: 🤔

Canadian: Maybe you just say swimming suit!?!

Me: 💡. Ahhhh! Got it!

 

A few beers later, and I’m not sure anyone was even that clear.  I kept asking why one guy was so angry? I couldn’t understand as he kept saying he was pissed. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I've had a lot of those moments. 

 

"I need my thongs for the beach"

(American who has never heard that word applied anywhere but to thong underwear etc) "Ok..."

*comes out with flip flops, not a skimpy bathing suit*

 

Yelled, at a minor, in a public store :

 

"YOU DON'T NEED TO BUY RUBBERS, LETS GO"

*cue the American laughing and being called a perv*

 

And there was something I said that I can't even remember what it was, that my wife told me was a naughty word in the UK and it's a perfectly innocent one here. So, I looked at her funny when she got surprised I said it ( I don't swear, so she gets surprised when I say naughty words). 

 

Not to mention over here, it's perfectly OK to hold up two fingers... while I learned in the UK it's like giving the middle finger when I first visited over there. 

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We call sandals with a thing between the toes thongs in “my” part of the US but I’ve noticed other parts do not...

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39 minutes ago, Serran said:

And there was something I said that I can't even remember what it was, that my wife told me was a naughty word in the UK and it's a perfectly innocent one here. So, I looked at her funny when she got surprised I said it

might be "fanny", that one stood out to me! :) 

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2 hours ago, Serran said:

...there was something I said that I can't even remember what it was, that my wife told me was a naughty word in the UK and it's a perfectly innocent one here. So, I looked at her funny when she got surprised I said it ( I don't swear, so she gets surprised when I say naughty words)...

🧐 Hmm...I wonder if it's the word "bloody."

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@Serran I’m trying to think of what it might be. That’s going to drive me nuts.

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As a fellow Brit-lover, I’ve definitely come across offensive/benign words in both directions. For example, they call seizures fits. I work in neurology so it actually comes up. I’m very uncomfortable with calling seizures “fits” but I’m not even sure they knew what else to call it. I think I’ve heard that spaz is bad there? Something to do with spasms? But I can’t remember the ones that were shockingly different.

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With some help from Google, innocuous American words that have not so innocent meanings in the UK:

Spunk(y)

Shag

Randy

Knob

Cop (I didn’t know this one until literally just now and I need to know if I need to be mortified or not but Splat’s asleep!)

Thick

Dogging

Bonk

Jock? (Not sure on this one)

Poof

 

 

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1 hour ago, Graceful said:

As a fellow Brit-lover, I’ve definitely come across offensive/benign words in both directions. For example, they call seizures fits. I work in neurology so it actually comes up. I’m very uncomfortable with calling seizures “fits” but I’m not even sure they knew what else to call it. I think I’ve heard that spaz is bad there? Something to do with spasms? But I can’t remember the ones that were shockingly different.

This actually got Mario Party 8 in a bit of hot water across the pond:

 

tumblr_mhm83n419P1rw70wfo1_500.png

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Some of those aren’t innocuous in the US either, at least not where I live...  e.g., (some TMI and/or offensive so I’m hiding them...):
 

Spoiler

 

Spunk - semen

Shag - to have sexual intercourse with

Randy - horny

Cop (but it might be a different non-innocuous meaning since it’s not outright shocking) - to grab, as in “cop a feel”

Bonk - same as shag

Poof - derogatory/bigoted slang for gay man

 

 

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There is an offensive term for people with cerebral palsy in the UK and Ireland but the word seems ok in the USA, could it be that word that I won't use.

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4 hours ago, ryn2 said:

Some of those aren’t innocuous in the US either, at least not where I live...  e.g., (some TMI and/or offensive so I’m hiding them...):
 

  Hide contents

 

Spunk - semen

Shag - to have sexual intercourse with

Randy - horny

Cop (but it might be a different non-innocuous meaning since it’s not outright shocking) - to grab, as in “cop a feel”

Bonk - same as shag

Poof - derogatory/bigoted slang for gay man

 

 

Those are the British meanings but as far as I was aware, the US ones were:

 

-Energetic and determined; someone with chutzpah

-A type of carpet or hairstyle

-A first name

-Police officer. Where I live, everyone says cop, not police officer.

-Kind of an onomatopoeia for hitting, especially on the head.

-A noise indicating sudden disappearance

 

33 minutes ago, iff said:

There is an offensive term for people with cerebral palsy in the UK and Ireland but the word seems ok in the USA, could it be that word that I won't use.

Forgive me if it is offensive there but I believe that might be spaz? It has nothing to do with cerebral palsy here. It’s a personality description meaning hyperactive and prone to energetic outbursts. I’ve known people to use it to describe themselves in a positive way and even had a friend once whose self-identified nickname was Spaz.

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2 minutes ago, Graceful said:

 

Forgive me if it is offensive there but I believe that might be spaz? It has nothing to do with cerebral palsy here. It’s a personality description meaning hyperactive and prone to energetic outbursts. I’ve known people to use it to describe themselves in a positive way and even had a friend once whose self-identified nickname was Spaz.

Yes that is the word and the longer version too.

 

In school, it had been also a term used by a bully against me.

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Just now, iff said:

Yes that is the word and the longer version too.

 

In school, it had been also a term used by a bully against me.

😨 I’m sorry. I don’t even know what the longer version is. I hope I haven’t offended you.

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2 hours ago, Graceful said:

Those are the British meanings but as far as I was aware, the US ones were:

The US meanings you listed are indeed used but the ones I listed are (in my part of the US) amongst the slang meanings as well.  It’s like “pork” - officially it’s the meat of a pig, and it’s also political slang for certain types of funding, but it’s also a slang synonym for shag.  Depending on your audience, using the official meaning will elicit snickers.

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4 hours ago, alibali said:

Spaz = spastic. Rarely used in the UK now.

When I was a kid it was used this way in the US too - as an offensive term (and also a correct medical term, in the long version) for people with conditions like CP, epilepsy, essential tremor, etc., that caused jerking or “puppetlike” movement.  I can’t say it’s never used that way now but it seems to be used more often in the way mentioned above... to mean hyperactive and a bit clumsy.

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4 hours ago, Graceful said:

😨 I’m sorry. I don’t even know what the longer version is. I hope I haven’t offended you.

No, I'm not offended 

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