Jump to content

Recommended Posts

nanogretchen4

Apostle, the most usual American strategy involves going to a university in a city that has a significant gay population. Pretty much all of the notably gay friendly cities in the US have major universities. I'm pretty sure the gay friendliness of a city is in fact positively correlated with the education level of the residents and the strength of the city's economy. If LGBT+ people have a different system for finding and dating each other in England, please elaborate on how it works for the benefit of English posters. That would be more helpful than a misinformed rant about young people today.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The US is very large and has a lot of cultural variation from place to place.  I have a number of friends who have narrowed down where they want to live (what metro area, at least, if not exact location) based on how gay-friendly places are.

 

In countries where everywhere is gay-friendly (or nowhere is) - or where the only gay-friendly areas offer few jobs - I’d expect it’s less of a factor.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Apostle said:

Not high paying jobs though. Yes, anyone can get a job in a city if they are willing and able. Paying the rent is a different matter entirely. You wouldn't be earning a living wage in London for example where the rent for a bedsit is around £750/month (approx the same in Dollars) and you would have to add on food and service costs on top of that. You would need to earn at least £30,000 a year just to stay as you were and have some form of qualification.  

I said somewhere upthread that socioeconomics plays a role.  People who are socioeconomically underprivileged have fewer options, sometimes quite unfairly, and often have little or no choice in terms of where to work or live at all.  That’s part of why I said I’m guessing it varies from country to country.

 

People who have the qualifications to land a good job in a small city or rural area generally also have the qualifications to land a similarly good job in larger cities.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ryn2 said:

 

People who have the qualifications to land a good job in a small city or rural area generally also have the qualifications to land a similarly good job in larger cities.

Though getting interviews in large cities can be hard if your experience is from a small town's practice as I learnt in 2014-2015 when I could only get 1 job interview out of 70+ applications (though that was the biggest firm I applied for and actually seemed overqualified from what they said. I've never heard being told you are very competent as a negative factor until that interview.)

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Apostle said:

Reading between the lines am I right in saying you are a dominatrix?

Hah I didn't think 'reading between the lines' was necessary because I was very clear about what I do and don't want, I wasn't trying to be subtle or anything. If I was a dominatrix I'd be very clear about that because there are definitely men who are into that.  I don't have a label for what I am though I just list it clearly so people who may be interested in me know exactly what it is I am after. :) (so no, not a Dominatrix haha.. I'd be the worst dominatrix in history because I'm very nice and caring in a relationship) :P

 

4 hours ago, Apostle said:

Maybe Ficto doesn't know them yet and they are actually around the area but hidden?

 Oh well I'm not sure about gay men but I was (and am) actively looking for women to fuck in NZ (on dating sites etc, not on AVEN nobody panic ahaha) that's why I was so surprised by how few women openly identify as lesbian/bi  NZ even online. Like I said, on OKCupid there were 3 lesbian/bi women within a 500mile radius of me who had been online in the past week (you weirdly can't search 'just NZ', you either have to search within 500 miles or 'everywhere' meaning the whole world, lol, ridiculous system). But even places like Pink Couch (a worldwide lesbian dating site) only has about 20 women that have had active profiles recently in NZ and all of them are the 'butch' kind of lesbian which doesn't work for me. If I want to fuck someone who looks like a man I'll fuck a bloody man!! Haha. (edit!! I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those ladies who identify as butch lesbians by the way!! But what attracts me to women is their femininity, their beauty, their curves. So that's what I would seek in a female sexual partner)

 

PS the reason I wanted to find a woman to fuck (well, more than one) is just so I can try to see again if I can want sex with women. That would open up my relationship possibilities because I already know I can want it with men and transwomen.. just need some more practice with 'AFAB' women I guess.

 

.. Well actually no it won't open up my relationship possibilities if there aren't any openly identifying lesbian or bi women around this whole damn country :P

Link to post
Share on other sites
nanogretchen4

My best guess is that lesbians in New Zealand do have a system for finding each other and you just haven't found it yet. Obviously they don't rely on OKCupid or Pink Couch. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, ryn2 said:

Yeah, that’s what I was thinking.  Like, there are two openly gay men in my department (not a couple) and one openly lesbian women in the next dept. over, plus two MTF women, one of whom is lesbian and the other I don’t know that well.  So there are more openly gay/lesbian people within 50 feet of my workspace than there are within 500 miles of ficto’s home.  :) 

Haha that's more than I can find online who are near me, that's for sure!! Like I said there are 20 tops on Pink Couch (but most of them are up north anyway, none close to my town) and none of those are my type, and OkCupid has like, 3 bi/lesbian ladies within a 500 mile radius :P ahahah. And believe me, I'm looking. They're just so frikken hard to find!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I live in the culturally mixed North East  of England in a big conurbation, and know gay, bi and trans people in all sorts of occupations. I have yet to hear whether i know any asexuals...I don't know whether that is because there are fewer of us or whether people are afraid to "come out". I dont think it is seen as culturally acceptable.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, nanogretchen4 said:

My best guess is that lesbians in New Zealand do have a system for finding each other and you just haven't found it yet. Obviously they don't rely on OKCupid or Pink Couch. 

I've used all the online dating sites, by the way. Those were just two examples as they're the most popular in NZ. I just really wouldn't be surprised if the online lesbian community just wasn't that big here. Oh also my mum is really big in the art community which one would generally think may have a higher LGBT population but nope down here they're all straight. Where I live is very  close-minded so I think people are either more scared to 'come out' OR they just move to the cities because yes you have a higher chance of finding someone compatible with you in a city than in a small rural community :P

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Apostle said:

Agreed. But this has nothing to do with people with differing sexual orientations. As far as I could read, the insinuation was that gay people or gender different would seek a job purely based on their orientation, in a city where others of a similar nature congregate. Is this to make them feel more safe, like escaping the village and going into the city to be anonymous or at least amongst their own kind?

Anyone - barring insurmountable socioeconomic hurdles - who would prefer to make friends and seek partners amost people of similar ages, interests, orientations, etc., may choose to settle down in areas where people meeting those criteria are.

 

When people do that, their percentages are skewed high compared to other areas.  There are more snowboarders and skiers near mountains.  There are more lgbt+ people in large, liberal-leaning cities.  And so forth.

 

If you live in the US in a large, liberal city you will doubtless feel like “4% gay” is a low estimate.  That was my original point.

 

I can’t speak to whether or not the same holds true in England as I do not live in England.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, iff said:

Though getting interviews in large cities can be hard if your experience is from a small town's practice as I learnt in 2014-2015 when I could only get 1 job interview out of 70+ applications (though that was the biggest firm I applied for and actually seemed overqualified from what they said. I've never heard being told you are very competent as a negative factor until that interview.)

Agreed.  I live in a small/medium city and the usual number tossed around is 100 applications for one interview.  That’s part of why younger people take the approach suggested earlier of going to college/uni in the cities where they ultimately want to live... making connections, school job placement, etc.

Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Do you think there's an element of asexuals (especially if they're already in a relationship, happily or otherwise) not feeling that announcing they never wanted sex and didn't see the point would achieve much? If you're gay, then you're not going to find a sexual or relationship partner without coming out. Asexuals often seem less conscious of their orientation and/or its implications; and if they're not sexually repulsed, might not really feel it as a Thing at all.

I don't think it is possible make assumptions that asexuals are more deceptive by nature.

 

I can only speak from my own experience. Before I had an explanation I could link myself to I wouldn't have said I never had any sexual feelings. I thought i did. They just were fleeting and not important to my well being. I also had strong feelings towards the partners i had, so I didn't really make the connection. As I have stated before, I would imagine that until you have a label and know other people feel like you do about sex, you would probably go through life not realising it's anything more than a very low libido. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Do you think there's an element of asexuals (especially if they're already in a relationship, happily or otherwise) not feeling that announcing they never wanted sex and didn't see the point would achieve much? If you're gay, then you're not going to find a sexual or relationship partner without coming out. Asexuals often seem less conscious of their orientation and/or its implications; and if they're not sexually repulsed, might not really feel it as a Thing at all.

Also, to the safety point, asexuals don’t typically stand visibly out from a crowd as in most settings it’s normal and expected not to engage in sexual activity in public.

 

Two men kissing passionately are physically safer in a place where the general public is lgbt+ accepting.  Two people walking along not holding hands, not kissing, etc., aren’t in danger.

Link to post
Share on other sites

To expound on that, a mixed or even ace/ace couple looks no different to the casual observer than does a sexual/sexual couple of the same romantic orientation.  There isn’t a visible difference.

 

I’d have to guess that’s made the establishment of an “ace culture” where aces can be “safely and openly ace” less urgent and appealing than has been true for some other groups.

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Apostle said:

 It does seem to me that there are a large proportion of asexuals who don't really know that they are just that and it is only after a number of years perhaps that they realise who they are, like you state, and then possibly cause a stable relationship to be damaged forever.

I'm not saying it is anyone's fault, it's just bad luck I suppose.

Yes, it is.  So it shouldn't be described as causing a stable relationship to be damaged forever, as though the asexual caused it.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Sally said:

Yes, it is.  So it shouldn't be described as causing a stable relationship to be damaged forever, as though the asexual caused it.  

Absolutely. And it also sounds like someone being asexual defines them as a person. That's not something that is said about people who are sexual.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Sally said:

Yes, it is.  So it shouldn't be described as causing a stable relationship to be damaged forever, as though the asexual caused it.  

That, and it’s not that discovering you’re asexual damages relationships.  Mixed relationships are mixed regardless of what the participants know about their sexuality.  All that discovery does is provide a better/more accurate explanation for why the relationship is the way it (already) is.

 

Being armed with more knowledge may change how one or more people in the relationship feel about continuing it, but that’s not damaging a stable relationship.  It’s just better understanding the relationship - stable or not - that’s already there.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
nanogretchen4

As for asexuality defining someone as a person, heterosexuality is the unmarked orientation. A white male heterosexual looks in the mirror and sees a person. A white female heterosexual looks in the mirror and sees a woman. A gay white female looks in the mirror and sees a lesbian. Mainstream society is set up for the convenience of (white, male,cis,middle class) heterosexuals and the promotion of their culture and values. Their heterosexual identity is so central that it's invisible. So I do suspect that once asexuals truly internalize the idea that they are people with a valid minority orientation rather than broken heterosexuals, they may start looking in the mirror and seeing asexuals. And at that point they may want a community that reflects their own culture and values.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, nanogretchen4 said:

As for asexuality defining someone as a person, heterosexuality is the unmarked orientation. A white male heterosexual looks in the mirror and sees a person. A white female heterosexual looks in the mirror and sees a woman. A gay white female looks in the mirror and sees a lesbian. Mainstream society is set up for the convenience of (white, male,cis,middle class) heterosexuals and the promotion of their culture and values. Their heterosexual identity is so central that it's invisible. So I do suspect that once asexuals truly internalize the idea that they are people with a valid minority orientation rather than broken heterosexuals, they may start looking in the mirror and seeing asexuals. And at that point they may want a community that reflects their own culture and values.

Hmmm. I think I am missing your point. Are you saying peoples personality and values are defined by their sexuality?? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
nanogretchen4

Not entirely, but any characteristic you have that makes you different from the group mainstream society is designed to serve and promote gives you an outsider perspective on the mainstream. An asexual who still identifies with heterosexual values might think being their best self includes passing as heterosexual and making a relationship with a heterosexual work. An asexual who identifies with asexual values might think being their best self includes promoting asexual visibility, supporting the asexual community, and finding an asexual partner if they actually want to be part of a couple in the first place.

Link to post
Share on other sites

To me it’s somehow conceptually harder to consider something I *don’t* have central to my identity.  I know people do - e.g., deafness is the full or partial absence of hearing and yet deaf people where I live have a strong community and collective identity - but this feels different to me somehow.  I’m not sure why.  I had a stroke in my 30’s, the lasting effects of which are largely invisible to everyone else, and yet I still feel part of “post-stroke patients.”  Hm.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, nanogretchen4 said:

Not entirely, but any characteristic you have that makes you different from the group mainstream society is designed to serve and promote gives you an outsider perspective on the mainstream. An asexual who still identifies with heterosexual values might think being their best self includes passing as heterosexual and making a relationship with a heterosexual work. An asexual who identifies with asexual values might think being their best self includes promoting asexual visibility, supporting the asexual community, and finding an asexual partner if they actually want to be part of a couple in the first place.

Just everyone has a characteristic that makes us different from that mainstream-society-approved group.   I'm not sure what "heterosexual values" are.  My values aren't defined by my orientation; they're my values as a person.  

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I definitely don't feel part of an asexual community nor that my values are defined by my orientation. Duty, honour, manners, honesty, professionalism. My orientation now I know about it will lead me to different choices. But choices are not the same as values.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...