Jump to content

Asexual Flag Voting (First Round)


standup

Asexual Flag Voting - Please Choose 3 from Each Category  

  1. 1. "Simple" Flags Part One (Horizontal & Triangle)

    • A
      90
    • B
      45
    • C
      21
    • D
      20
    • E
      19
    • F
      30
    • G
      31
    • H
      31
    • I
      24
    • J
      15
    • K
      8
    • L
      17
    • M
      5
    • N
      71
    • O
      70
    • P
      15
    • Q
      29
    • I would prefer not to have a flag.
      47
  2. 2. "Simple" Flags Part Two (Vertical & Diagonal)

    • A
      60
    • B
      25
    • C
      22
    • D
      6
    • E
      24
    • F
      60
    • G
      55
    • H
      25
    • I
      31
    • J
      19
    • K
      20
    • L
      19
    • N
      35
    • O
      20
    • P
      22
    • Q
      50
    • I would prefer not to have a flag.
      59
  3. 3. "Symbol" Flags

    • A
      44
    • B
      9
    • C
      19
    • D
      4
    • E
      10
    • F
      13
    • G
      8
    • H
      6
    • I
      98
    • J
      34
    • K
      7
    • L
      23
    • M
      47
    • N
      63
    • O
      45
    • P
      20
    • Q
      14
    • I would prefer not to have a flag.
      67
  4. 4. Do you want a flag to represent Asexuality?

    • Yes
      216
    • No
      51


Recommended Posts

Is it just me, or are we starting to look like a cult? :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I must say I am pleased with the discussion now happening in this thread. This is what needed to happen before this project got off the ground, and if it continues like this, I am sure a much better conclusion will be met.

I echo that. I agree with pretty much everything you and SpirallingSnowy have had to say on the subject.

To clarify my position, I still don't think we as a community need or are ready to have a flag as things stand now, I think we have a long way to go in terms of visibility before it becomes in any way useful. That said, I'm not completely against having a flag if the majority want one, as long as it is done carefully, with plenty of thought and discussion. This is not meant as a slur on Standup etc., who I appreciate were just trying to get the ball rolling, but everything is happening way too fast for something which is meant to be official. If it had just been ideas for chromatically appropriate flags people could use at Pride events if they wanted to, I would have had a different view, but an official flag is a Big Deal and, like others have said, if this is going to happen it needs to be done right.

To those who think slowing things down will kill off the idea, if the community really wants this then it won't die, especially if the Project Team are on board to help see it through. If it does drop off the radar, then perhaps we need to rethink whether it is needed at all.

To reiterate, I'd rather have no flag than one that is meaningless to a large proportion of the community because not enough time was spent on it. I doubt even the quickest of votes would provide anything in time for this year's remaining Pride events, so why not take our time and make sure it's right for next year, if that's what people want?

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 PT members have already commented-- GoAlly and Snowy. I'm also on the PT but I'm having a hard time conceptualizing this project. Personally, I think flags are like language, the ones that get used the most become the vocabulary. The rainbow flag didn't become a gay symbol overnight, but was used by the gay community at their marches and events over and over until it became associated with them. I don't think our options are limited to "decide on a flag in an AVEN poll" or "don't have a flag". I think we will have a flag, eventually, but it will probably be a more organic process than what we're doing here. There are many possible ways to "choose" a flag, and the one that makes most sense to me is to just wait and see what flags asexuals end up using--if we get to a point where we have a lot of real-world events, someone will probably start using something. The rainbow flag actually has a long history, which people might be interested in reading about. The rainbow flag was popularized by the gay community, but it wasn't invented by them. Maybe, like them, we could find an old flag design and appropriate it. That's another option. I know some will probably disagree with me, but I wanted to make this comment, as I hadn't seen a similar one.

I really like the enthusiasm in this thread. Usually our forum is so quiet!

The other PT members are ...but there are sounds and Akira-f'ingbadass (or whatever his title is now).

Link to post
Share on other sites
you*hear*but*do*you*listen

Most of the options in the current poll is, in my opinion, very poor. There's too much going on on most of it, and it seems like a lot of the flags are just randomly thrown together.

Sorry :redface: The "busy" flags are all mine. I, um, like symbols too much. And I didn't just throw them together, I spent hours on those...but if we're going to put this whole operation on pause and get more feedback from other asexual communities etc. before we keep voting, then just get rid of all the flags I made. I should have known that nobody would like any shit I came up with.

And I was so excited to have options I made in the poll...*hides in a corner*

Also I have a suggestion. (It's going to suck, since I came up with it, but whatever.) I like SpirallingSnowy's idea of sending out messages to members of all the asexual groups on FB, but I think every asexual with a FB should post this to their status:

"The asexual community is trying to come up with a flag to represent our orientation! This is a message calling asexuals to discuss a flag here (link; should we start a new flag discussion thread or keep using this one?). Please give us your input!" or something like that.

Also, I'd just about kill to have an asexual flag. If we end up deciding on not having a flag, then I'll make my own symbol-filled piece-of-shit flag and it will be my own personal asexy flag. We may have survived for a while without a flag, but so did the homosexual community, neh? It's high time I have something to wave in the next Pride Parade!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, would the project team be interested in helping this along? I know I'm not really popular with many of them at the moment, (;)) but it'd be nice to have more people to organize with.

Oh, and currently 81% of voters are in favor of having a flag.

Link to post
Share on other sites

On positive thing about all this- look at the turnout! This must be record for a poll lol

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest fridayoak

Yeah lots of votes, I've noticed a lot people who posted in this thread who are in favour are people who have been here a while but not posted much, so it goes to show not all avenites are sitting around on their computer non-stop. These people are having their say now and that just shows the appetite for a flag in my opinion. It seems from the poll the vast majority want a flag in some form so even if it was a little rushed and some of the designs weren't great I think overall it's been a very positive step, so the people who got the ball rolling and contributed should take a lot of credit. The initial backlash agianst the idea seems to have died down as people have realised that it'd be good for visibilty so hopefully the discussion will continue and a well-designed and thought out flag will emerge in the near-future as something the community is happy with.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, would the project team be interested in helping this along?

We'll definitely talk about it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay... so um... I think it cool that people are really excited about this.

And I'm glad that standup has been receptive to some concerns being said.

I think because someone is expressing reluctance we don't need to necessarily assume there is some sort of control issue or negativity or elitism on their part.

So, while I get that some people are saying htere is a lot of enthusiasm for this... which I agree I see that... and I agree enthusiasm is really motivating and exciting...

And I like that people want the flag to have more input from all of the community... that there isn't control or input by say just a select few or wahtever. *thumbs up this*

I do have to say... this flag is looking well like... maybe an AVEN flag?

(Maybe and English and (was it French?) speaking AVEN flag.)

(so is this supposed to be like an AVEN flag or more like a "universal Asexuality in general" flag?)

I think it awesome that people vocalized concerns about excluding other asexuals from being included in this discussion/vote.

Maybe a hot button word right now is that we are saying "official" Asexuality flag. (maybe??)

If this was to be.. more inclusive... or more representative of ALL asexuals... it seems almost as if ... this should be occurring in maybe a more neutral or all-inclusive site.

Or still more organization to this whole thing.

That maybe... all the different Asexual sites would get to vote and contribute 2 or 3 flags... to the master vote that woudl occur on a more neutral site. (not just like the english aven site, you know).

Then we could all (including aven (asexuality.org/ENglish) link to this voting place/site... which would have instructions in different languages of how to vote and proceed.

All the asexuals over the world could have their voices heard.

I have to admit I don't know how hard it is to navigate this site if I didn't speak english. I just worry we are unintentionally creating this thing where we are expecting everyone else to... register and create accounts on here--onto our english site, and then place their vote here. Are we um, advertising or getting the word out onto other asexuality sites where people don't speak english? Are we putting the effort in translating and communicating iwth other sites/asexuals... or are we making communication a one way street where the non-english speaking asexuals do all the effort?

I just really don't want to exclude anyone. Or unintentionally be elitist.

I'm sorry if my words came out more harsh (like if they did) than I intended them.

I just wanted to throw these thoughts, questions, concerns out here.

If standup has been making contact on various non-english speaking forums and sites, then I apologize.

--egd

Link to post
Share on other sites
asexual cake

In light of egd's concerns,

Does anyone know of any non-AVEN-affiliated asexuality-focused sights/communities in languages other than English? A quick search on the Spanish and French language google(s) show several unaffiliated communities in those languages.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Using a different host site that has multi-lingual capabilities would take a lot of time, effort, and probably money. This is kind of a poor man's way of going about it, but it still works for the most part.

We're working on getting translators to add the poll to other non-English communities. I'd also like to advertise the "new" discussion thread other places too, but I would need help with that and I don't trust online translation machines.

Also, the flag is supposed to be universally representative of asexuality, not just for AVEN.

Link to post
Share on other sites
you*hear*but*do*you*listen

Using a different host site that has multi-lingual capabilities would take a lot of time, effort, and probably money. This is kind of a poor man's way of going about it, but it still works for the most part.

We're working on getting translators to add the poll to other non-English communities. I'd also like to advertise the "new" discussion thread other places too, but I would need help with that and I don't trust online translation machines.

Also, the flag is supposed to be universally representative of asexuality, not just for AVEN.

I'd be willing to help with any Spanish or Korean communities...my Korean is pretty crap, but I think I can get the point across :P

How are we working on getting translators?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Spoofmaster

Here from the LiveJournal community, as I haven't been around here in ages. I'm kind of curious to see what my icon is when I have this reply posted, actually--it's been that long. :P

I am all for a flag; I do not see how having a design we can use at Pride parades and print on a few buttons would hurt anything, and it could certainly increase our visibility and make us look more like a solid, organized community. My current favorites are n and o from the first page of options, as they use a symbol already well-known in this community without being cluttered or impractical. I'm sad to hear that the voting process is going to be stopped, but it does seem fairest to allow input and submissions from communities outside of AVEN before this thing gets rolling properly. I'd also like to see more designs that give clearer thought to the arrangement of the stripes, triangles, etc, beyond just what looks good--and I'm very uneasy about the flags with the big X's across them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

About polling - is it not easier for every place to have mirror polls set up and then tally up results into a larger poster and putting faith in others to either not vote more than once if they can avoid it, or have a place to leave notes to that affect for when the larger tally is recorded. Cause some places only let you see the results if you've voted.

Avoids having to pay for some multi-language site, and does it in places we'd already be familiar with.

Though I'm not sure what the people built up around the blogs would do. Could vote in comments but it isn't anonymous then (then again, it isn't anonymous on LiveJournal if you know where to look).

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think as long as we can get the word out to other communities and let them know what's going on, it shouldn't be too big of a deal to dust off an account to vote (or even create a new one). The biggest issue I think is just places that speak other languages, in which case, I would like to see polls on their sites (or maybe to keep it convenient, on the AVEN sites that host their language.)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Choice P!!!!!!!!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess if we can't find people on English speaking AVEN to translate to other sites, do the other AVEN sites have an alternative language forum like we do? Someone could post (in English) on there looking for someone to translate something into the language of the forum?

Link to post
Share on other sites

So glad to finally be voting on this!

Overall I prefer the simple horizontal stripes design, but there are a couple of other designs that are decent enough that I wouldn't be averse to them. And I agree on the topic of simplicity VS symbols; the flag really shouldn't have that much going on.

This. I did have to think long and hard about the non-symbol flags (I was selfish and put it in terms of sewing difficulty :lol: ) and a simple flag is better for sewing! (and from a vexillology point of view, right?)

Link to post
Share on other sites
SpirallingSnowy

we could use survey monkey or something with images and have a selection process or whatever... there are a million ways to do the voting, and i think we need to wait to see how many flags we have.... and we need to tell the other communities they NEED to submit flags. Not just that we are talking about this!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am unsure why we feel we need every country and every single asexuals agreement on the flag??

i point to the rainbow flag as an example

LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender) Pride (1978)

Rainbow flag (LGBT movement)Main article: Rainbow flag (LGBT movement)

The rainbow flag, sometimes called 'the freedom flag', was popularized as a symbol of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) pride and diversity by San Francisco artist Gilbert Baker in 1978. The different colors symbolize diversity in the gay community, and the flag is used predominantly at gay pride events and in gay villages worldwide in various forms including banners, clothing and jewelry. For the 25th Anniversary of the Stonewall riots, held in 1994 in New York city, a mile-long rainbow flag was created and post-parade cut up in sections that have since been used around the world.

Originally created with eight colors, pink and turquoise were removed for production purposes and as of 2008, it consists of six colored stripes, which should always be displayed with red on top or to left. It is most commonly flown with the red stripe on top, as the colors appear in a natural rainbow.[11] Aside from the obvious symbolism of a mixed LGBT community, the colors were designed to symbolize: red (life), orange (healing), yellow (sunlight), green (nature), blue (harmony), and purple/violet (spirit). The removed colors stood for sex (pink) and art/magic (turquoise). Another presumed origin is the song Over the Rainbow, synonymous with gay icon Judy Garland, whose film The Wizard of Oz has often been interpreted as an allegory of gay coming out.

now forgive me if i am wrong, but i took from that above, the flag was originated in san francisco and has been adopted world wide

sometimes you have to lead and then react...or you can talk a lot and achieve nothing

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am unsure why we feel we need every country and every single asexuals agreement on the flag??

i point to the rainbow flag as an example

LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender) Pride (1978)

Rainbow flag (LGBT movement)Main article: Rainbow flag (LGBT movement)

The rainbow flag, sometimes called 'the freedom flag', was popularized as a symbol of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) pride and diversity by San Francisco artist Gilbert Baker in 1978. The different colors symbolize diversity in the gay community, and the flag is used predominantly at gay pride events and in gay villages worldwide in various forms including banners, clothing and jewelry. For the 25th Anniversary of the Stonewall riots, held in 1994 in New York city, a mile-long rainbow flag was created and post-parade cut up in sections that have since been used around the world.

Originally created with eight colors, pink and turquoise were removed for production purposes and as of 2008, it consists of six colored stripes, which should always be displayed with red on top or to left. It is most commonly flown with the red stripe on top, as the colors appear in a natural rainbow.[11] Aside from the obvious symbolism of a mixed LGBT community, the colors were designed to symbolize: red (life), orange (healing), yellow (sunlight), green (nature), blue (harmony), and purple/violet (spirit). The removed colors stood for sex (pink) and art/magic (turquoise). Another presumed origin is the song Over the Rainbow, synonymous with gay icon Judy Garland, whose film The Wizard of Oz has often been interpreted as an allegory of gay coming out.

now forgive me if i am wrong, but i took from that above, the flag was originated in san francisco and has been adopted world wide

sometimes you have to lead and then react...or you can talk a lot and achieve nothing

I agree, though so far it's so good so as of now I'm not *knock on wood* worried about this dieing.

The Wizard of Oz has been interpreted as coming out as gay? :blink:

Link to post
Share on other sites
Spoofmaster

The Wizard of Oz has been interpreted as coming out as gay? :blink:

Ooh! I can answer this one! At least, in part.

1. Dorothy's male companions can be and sometimes are interpreted as gay men. The Tin Man and the Cowardly Lion are pretty effeminate, and I guess the Scarecrow falls into the same category. All three are "lacking" something that would allow them to function in normal society, only to discover they were fine all along.

2. I may be mistaken, but I want to say Judy Garland is popular among crossdressers?

3. Alexander Doty wrote an article interpreting the 1939 film as having a lesbian protagonist. I wrote a response claiming Dorothy as an asexual woman, but I need to rewrite it because it was years ago and I sort of cringe when I look at it now.

Link to post
Share on other sites
ThePieMaker

2. I may be mistaken, but I want to say Judy Garland is popular among crossdressers?

Judy Garland was and is a huge gay icon. The lovely and talented (not to mention very very gay :wub: ) Rufus Wainwright re-created her famous 1961 Carnegie Hall concert.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Gho St Ory Qwan

I can tell you why.

I think it trivializes us. I also think it creates a sort of us vs. them attitude. Not to mention, there are so many varieties in the asexual community that I think eventually flags would pop up for each section, creating more divide.

The asexual community has existed so far without a flag and it's been fine. Why do we need one now? It makes us look like we're insecure with our identity. Like we need a symbol to tell us who we are and to give us pride

I understand pride and community, but you don't need a flag to create that. We have pride. We have a community. We are constantly growing without a flag.

I'm just saying we are so much more than a flag. We don't need a flag. We are here. We exist. I, and as you see there are others as well, don't need or even want a flag to represent that we don't experience sexual attraction. I am so much more than a symbol. You are all so much more than a symbol. If you think a flag will bring us together more, then I feel that maybe the community has other things it needs to sort out. Flags don't solve things.

And, yes, I understand this is about the community. If I felt like I was the only one who opposed it, I wouldn't have made the fuss, but perhaps, just perhaps, the community doesn't feel like they need a flag.

I don't think it's trivial at all. Every country has a flag, whether their citizens are patriotic or not. Every other sexual orientation has a flag, too, as well as some that aren't even really orientations at all. Nothing about having a flag would cause people to think negatively of asexuals. If anything, it may increase their respect, and cause them to recognize the orientation as more established and well-organized. It's not that having a flag would create community, it just adds to it. Think of it like putting a cherry on top of a delicious piece of pie (or cake, as it may be!)

I don't think many "sub group" flags would wind up emerging. Many people, I imagine, would be satisfied with just one.

Agreed, while we're growing just fine without a flag I think now is a good time to start growing more publically. We've started getting noticed finally, it's time to get something official out there so give people the visual to go along side with the word asexual.

I can fully understand how you feel that a flag is simplifying our community and might caused more complications in terms of 'does this apply to us all or not' but really it is something generic just to aid the public acknowledgement of our sexuality. Or at least that is how I personally view it. And for me that's going to be good in many ways and I dont think it's going to have a bad effect so much as being wall flowers as we may seem to most (partially why people don't believe there is a community of asexuals at all for some of us).

And like others have said, you don't have to use it. I mean I know that's not your issue directly, but you could probably not be effected by a flag at all if it were developed anyway. So hopefully it won't end up bother you too much. :(

Link to post
Share on other sites
ThePieMaker

And like others have said, you don't have to use it. I mean I know that's not your issue directly, but you could probably not be effected by a flag at all if it were developed anyway. So hopefully it won't end up bother you too much. :(

Yes, I know I don't have to use it, but if this stupid flag thing is made official (the official part is what is really really bothering me to the point where I'm trying so hard to keep my cool about it), it still represents part of my identity. A part of my identity that I'm really fighting to make visible and understood. I am going to be associated with the flag whether I like it or not. And I don't have a choice in that matter. So yeah, this bothers me immensely.

That being said, I'm done with this debate. I clearly don't have a choice. Those who don't want an official flag aren't really being taken seriously.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I take you seriously, Ally, and I understand some of your concerns. I hope at least a little consolation may be taken in that we are now trying to make this more of an inclusive process and considering the flags much more carefully. I hope, in my contributions to this discussion, that I can respect you and the other people who don't want a flag by keeping a note of seriousness and professionalism if you like, rather than making this an excitable, spontaneous, not-very-well-thought-out rush job. It seems that not everyone can be made happy by this topic- whatever happens someone is going to "lose". It brings to mind a quote from Terry Pratchett- "what a wise man cannot change, he channels".

Link to post
Share on other sites

And like others have said, you don't have to use it. I mean I know that's not your issue directly, but you could probably not be effected by a flag at all if it were developed anyway. So hopefully it won't end up bother you too much. :(

Yes, I know I don't have to use it, but if this stupid flag thing is made official (the official part is what is really really bothering me to the point where I'm trying so hard to keep my cool about it), it still represents part of my identity. A part of my identity that I'm really fighting to make visible and understood. I am going to be associated with the flag whether I like it or not. And I don't have a choice in that matter. So yeah, this bothers me immensely.

That being said, I'm done with this debate. I clearly don't have a choice. Those who don't want an official flag aren't really being taken seriously.

It can't be official until some sort of non-profit organization gets a copyright on it. And as far as I know, one of those doesn't even exist yet. The new thread is open to all discussion, and I think it would be nice if you wanted to share your views there to at least have put in your opinion. So far, a vast majority of the community has voted "Yes" for getting a flag - since most people want one, and I know you personally don't, it makes sense to at least help to make it one you can tolerate.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Gosh all of those aren't very cheerful, are they?

Why purple, why black. It looks awfully like something seen at a funeral. We're not mourning anything, are we?

Blah, if those are the choices, I'd prefer to not have one. No offense to the people who came up with the designs.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yellington, as explained-

Black = absence of colour = absence of sexual attraction

Grey = grey-A

White = sexual allies

(the above being the three colours present on the AVEN triangle, where the top half (the Kinsey Scale) is white and the bottom point, representing Group X (asexuality) is black.

Purple = the colour of the (AVEN) community, since the normal boards are purple and purple has become widely used in publicity, especially the parades.

Secondly, there is a new thread (linked in my sig) that addresses these kinds of issues since many other objections were brought up during the course of these threads. Please participate- the more the merrier.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...