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Asexual Flag Voting (First Round)


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Asexual Flag Voting - Please Choose 3 from Each Category  

  1. 1. "Simple" Flags Part One (Horizontal & Triangle)

    • A
      90
    • B
      45
    • C
      21
    • D
      20
    • E
      19
    • F
      30
    • G
      31
    • H
      31
    • I
      24
    • J
      15
    • K
      8
    • L
      17
    • M
      5
    • N
      71
    • O
      70
    • P
      15
    • Q
      29
    • I would prefer not to have a flag.
      47
  2. 2. "Simple" Flags Part Two (Vertical & Diagonal)

    • A
      60
    • B
      25
    • C
      22
    • D
      6
    • E
      24
    • F
      60
    • G
      55
    • H
      25
    • I
      31
    • J
      19
    • K
      20
    • L
      19
    • N
      35
    • O
      20
    • P
      22
    • Q
      50
    • I would prefer not to have a flag.
      59
  3. 3. "Symbol" Flags

    • A
      44
    • B
      9
    • C
      19
    • D
      4
    • E
      10
    • F
      13
    • G
      8
    • H
      6
    • I
      98
    • J
      34
    • K
      7
    • L
      23
    • M
      47
    • N
      63
    • O
      45
    • P
      20
    • Q
      14
    • I would prefer not to have a flag.
      67
  4. 4. Do you want a flag to represent Asexuality?

    • Yes
      216
    • No
      51


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Yeah, but if you go over to the LJ site you get people on there talking about the triangle as a logo so it isn't just AVEN.

Before stopping this poll, which seems a tad hasty and so on, we should get feedback from the others. So far the LJ lot seem either for or indifferent, the Apositive post hasn't had any responses and I'm about to go post on Dreamwidth. We'll have to see what the other AVEN language areas think of it, but if they're okay with what's up and how it's going there's not much point stopping it.

I only speak English though, so I won't be of any use in them. It's up to you guys and I think whoever asks should, in the start of the topic at the very least, try to be unbiased. I'm very pro-flag but I shall remain neutral on Dreamwidth just so you know.

No point halting it all now though, wait to see if the other groups decide they want it stopped first! No sign of that as yet however.

ETA: Dreamwidth entry is here.

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This isn't the final round, just the first. The ones who did better off on this go onto the next round where I think it's one vote per person. I'd assume from there we can take the winners (I propose top three?) and get people to discuss them, adapt them and perfect them and go from there into the final.

After this round, I'll be taking the top three flags from each category and I'll put them into another poll. Each person can pick one from each group, and then those top three will move on to the final round of voting where one flag will be chosen. This process should take about three weeks, and I'm sure lots of debate and nitpicking will occur over that period of time. Once the last flag is decided I'll open a new thread where you guys can discuss what changes you would like to make, and if you would like to keep it "for sure."

For those concerned about reaching out to the other language forums, if you are able to reproduce the next rounds of polls, please do so. If you have accounts on other asexual communities other than AVEN, please spread the word to promote voting. I am by no way asking for this to be kept secret or restricted only to people who speak English.

This process seems pretty solid to me. If anyone would like to propose a change, post back.

Also, for those of you who suggested stopping the poll to wait for more entries, I'm not going to do this. We already have 50 flag designs in this poll, which is more than enough. New designs would feel redundant or would only be a small variation from the ones we have, and these trivialities can be taken care of in the final post I will make concerning the details of the chosen flag. Also, more flags will just add to the voting confusion - it's already pretty crazy with the voting sheets I pieced together, and I tried very hard to keep them fair and legible. I want to keep this ball rolling for now, and if in the end everyone decides the asexual orientation will be better off without a flag, so be it.

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Lord Dandylion

I already know which one's my favourite ;P

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I just posted this on LJ, but I figured I'd put in my $0.02 here as well.

I think an asexual flag is a fabulous idea and long overdue. All of the other orientations have pride flags, and not having one makes me feel even more on the margins than I felt already. This was brought home to me when I was marching in Pride this year with a bunch of my queer (non-ace) friends. They were all decked out with rainbows and such, but I had no way to express my own pride, no colors to represent me. No way to say, "Hey, I'm queer, too - but not in the same way you guys are."

Yes, we have symbols - the black ring, the triangle - but I personally am not a huge fan of either of those. Plus, they're not as versatile as a flag. Having a flag also means having colors to represent us, in the same way that the rainbow represents the queer community. We could put those colors on anything, in the same way that the queer community uses the rainbow.

By the way, while I'm on the subject of colors, I feel very strongly that the final flag design should contain all four of the colors we've mentioned: black for asexuals, grey for demis and grey-a's, white for sexuals, purple for the ace community. I mention this because I noticed that a number of the flag designs don't have grey in them, which means demis and grey-a's are getting left off of those designs. I'm demi, and I really want to be able to feel like this flag represents me - especially since so many of the other asexual symbols, like the black ring, don't.

And on a different note: I want to thank you, standup, for all the effort and thought you're putting into making this process as transparent, fair, and streamlined as possible, and for making sure everyone's voices get heard. You're doing a great job. Thanks. :)

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Lord Dandylion

I think an asexual flag is a fabulous idea and long overdue. All of the other orientations have pride flags, and not having one makes me feel even more on the margins than I felt already. This was brought home to me when I was marching in Pride this year with a bunch of my queer (non-ace) friends. They were all decked out with rainbows and such, but I had no way to express my own pride, no colors to represent me. No way to say, "Hey, I'm queer, too - but not in the same way you guys are."

lol, I love rainbows, and this reminds me of when I wore one rainbow sock and one black/white striped sock (both thigh-high) and decided that it meant asexual, if only in my own mind XDD

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I'd first like to thank Pugnacioun for bringing this to the attention to other non-AVEN asexual communities.

So, after three years of absence, you managed to do something to bring me back, at least for now.

First off, this needs to slow waaaaaaaaaay down. A movement as grand as the creation of an official asexual flag needs way more thought than a simple "hey, lets make a flag, sumbit and lets vote." Reading through the discussion, I saw no discussion on symbols, meanings, etc. All I saw was a bunch of people submitting flags willy nilly, then a vote occurring almost immediately.

Now I see there as being decent reason for a flag, namely something to be universally recognized in pride parades and the like, but that is the only reason I see for it.

That being said, if one were to be made, more than simple aesthetic appeal is important. Sadly, aesthetics seem to be what is being voted on. Solely.

When I looked through the choices, many seemed to be arbitrary placements of purple, gray, white, and black. What does that even mean? Many were color-changed copies of already existing flags, including national flags, something which I am not a fan of. There are a few flag-shapes so heavily associated with nations that using them will instantly conjure images of said country. Consider the gay pride flag. I know of no country that uses six horizontal bars. It's unique to the movement. Yet in the submissions I saw numerous flags that had the shape of the French flag, the Norwegian Flag, The Swiss Flag, and even the Confederate Flag. Best not to use any of these I think.

Also consider symbology. Common symbols used in the asexual community would the the ace of spades, the cake, or the AVEN triangle. Now I am not a fan of the ace, seems too fighter pilot to me, and already has enough connotation behind it outside the asexual community to not be a useful symbol. The cake, that's just a bit silly. The AVEN triangle, well, I'm one of the dirty minded people who think it looks like the female crotch, so I'm reluctant to use it. However, the transition from the old AVEN triangle, the one with the solid black bottom, to the new one (new being fairly relative), the one with the gradient, rings rather significant. The thought process, for those unfamiliar, was that the black and white logo showed a clear cut boundary between sexual and asexual, which was hard to define in real life. The gradient showed more clearly that it was a spectrum, with a varying degrees of grey in there.

While I feel the gradient to be one of the more important and usable symbols in asexuality, it does run into two problems with using it in a flag. The first, the gradient in the AVEN symbol comes to a point, and for a reason. Flags are square, so getting it to that point and keeping the same meaning behind it would be difficult, unless it were a pennant-shaped flag. However those are unwieldy. The second issue is that gradients aren't easy to put on a flag, since flags tend to use nothing but solid colors. The closest one can come to solving this is stripes of varying shades, reminiscent of cell-style shading. I did see a few flags doing this.

I suppose in the end my biggest issue with the stuff I saw was that the colors were thrown together and arranged in a manner that may have looked good, but was not well thought, had no real meaning.

If this is to be done, I feel this whole current poll should be completely scrapped. Discussion into what an asexual flag needs to have in it needs to occur long before designs are even proposed.

For the record, at the current time, I feel that I must vote against having a flag alltogether.

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And on a different note: I want to thank you, standup, for all the effort and thought you're putting into making this process as transparent, fair, and streamlined as possible, and for making sure everyone's voices get heard. You're doing a great job. Thanks. :)

It's no problem at all, Lirael! Thanks for saying this though, it's wonderful to feel appreciated.

I suppose in the end my biggest issue with the stuff I saw was that the colors were thrown together and arranged in a manner that may have looked good, but was not well thought, had no real meaning.

Please read through this thread. http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?showtopic=51562

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Some I'd agree are thrown together cause the maker thought it'd look good and so on. Some were put together with actual thought as to the symbolism. Perhaps it should have been slower and looking back that's a fair point. One issue I think was the worry was that attention would drift from it and nothing would get done. But yeah, more discussion on symbols and so on before would have been good - there was a discussion thread previous to the first flag one on the colours, though basically what was agreed was just what seems to be all over AVEN already.

I also agree with people (not on AVEN I think) who said that the grey was important, because it represented the demis/grey-aces and without that in there it's basically excluding them.

But still, there are several flags in there that I can see thought behind, don't remind me too horribly of country or confederate flags (and the more obvious ones have been noted but put in due to a sense of fairness) which I like.

I think when we come down to the next round we can see which ones make it through, what we think of that, and then same into the final. If in the end what comes out is something that nobody likes or clearly lacks any symbolism - and I doubt that'll happen - and isn't something we can't get together and put the final touches on etc then maybe start again in a slower path with more ground rules.

But I think it'll work out and the voting will bring fourth the ones that need to be brought fourth.

I've told the LJ guys and I'll do with with the Dreamwidth people too (if they allow it for free accounts) I'll set up a poll mimicking the second round when that comes to it. The same can be done in other places, and so long as we take it on faith that people with account on multiple places vote only once or note it down that they voted however many extra times if that poll requires you to vote to see results (LJ doesn't, don't think Dreamwidth does) we can tally votes together and get a grand total vote.

And honestly, I'm still mostly of the view that if a person doesn't want to use a flag they don't have to use the flag. And it seems like trying to stop one ever happening, not just reservations on how this has been done, is like trying to hold us back. We're growing, we're expanding and walking in Prides more and more and remember David Jay's post asking us what we want in the next ten years? All the responses were about moving forward and increasing visibility. This goes to that.

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I suppose in the end my biggest issue with the stuff I saw was that the colors were thrown together and arranged in a manner that may have looked good, but was not well thought, had no real meaning.

Please read through this thread. http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?showtopic=51562

This comment did not pertain to the colors (I am well aware of the history that asexuality and purple and grey have, long before the existence of that thread), I was referring to the arrangement of said colors. The white to black gradient has a story and a reason. Putting the purple and greys in the shape of the Swedish flag, not so much.

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Saying that they "have no real meaning" led me to believe you didn't know background information that had been established about the colors. Sorry.

I understand you might not like some of these designs because they don't make sense, but that's the reason why I made a preliminary poll. It's to weed out the ones people don't like and stick to the ones people do like. I appreciate your post for its insight, and I'm glad you decided to share your opinions.

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SpirallingSnowy

I second alot of Dargons post as well.

Im well aware this has been discussed at length and having a flag has been mulling around for years. But the fact that there are still objections, and serious ones, about the way this has gone about, the amount of meaning and depth in the discussions ABOUT the symbols.... plus the fact that we are not the only asexuals out there. And none of the other asexual groups were even asked to submit anything.

I think this poll should be stopped. The flags that appear as flags of other countries/groups but with our colours should be put aside, and a call for flags from the other asexual communities should be made. If we are going to have a flag there should be a few rules put out when asking for flags eg original design, use of specific colours, dont make it too busy with symbols/things that arent as easily reproduced when making a flag etc. Some guidelines so people can work with them, not so we have over 50 flags which i personally found a pain in the butt to try and work out what i liked the most of.

I also thought flag submissions would go for longer, but thats just me.

This needs to be broken down into baby steps. eg. DO we want a colour as a back ground? Y/N Do we want symbols on it? Y/N Do we want stripes? Y/N etc etc.... and using this information people can design something that fits the criteria that the community ( and other asexual communities) want as their flag design specs. It narrows down teh choices in a fair way, and asks people to come up with creative ideas rather than copy another flags design and change colours, or make a flag in paint in 5 mins flat. If this is going to represent the asexual community at large, then it needs to slow down.

If its representing AVEN, and AVEN only..... well i cant see it hurting, but again, it should include the symbols that represent AVEN. Personally i think the black ring thing is stupid, i get its symbol etc, but it just doesnt stand right with me. If AVEN has a flag, it should be based on well established symbols representing us. Yes some of us wear black rings, but a circle on a flag, what does that represent to you? to me it expresses infinity, a continum, something that has no beginning and no end, a hole..... but i dont know if it realistically represents AVEN.

The ace of spades?? I feel this is a bit of an in-joke with AVEN, and because we call ourselves ace. but why the ace of spades? What about the other Aces in the deck of cards? *shrugs*

The triangle, well it has been part of the community for a long time, and its the one symbol that has stuck with us in some form over the years. When i was discussing with a fellow avenite last night, it was brought up that rather than a flag, if we have a symbol that represents us, well then you can stick it on a flag if you want, a tshirt, a button etc.

They suggested a white triangle, with the grey gradient on it, with a dark purple outline .

And the Cake?? well... its difficult to put on a flag, and again, i think its an AVEN in joke.

I agree that we need all sections of asexuals taken into consideration from the ground level up. This cant be an aven driven idea. If it is, then it is only the AVEN flag, not the flag for all asexuals.

Even then i think this process needs to be refined before submissions......

PS no one had told facebook asexuals so i went and posted a link in all the groups im a member or admin of....

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Typical Power

I find your lack of plaid... Disturbing. :evil:

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strangebird

I'm never here because identifying as asexual is the least important thing in the world to me (to be honest). Sexuality (or asexuality) doesn't equal community (to me). Sexuality (or asexuality) isn't an indicator that I'm going to have anything in common with any other person other than my sexuality (or asexuality), and even then the reality is that sexuality (and asexuality) is so broad that I may still have nothing in common with you even if I can figure out the appropriate term I'm meant to use to label myself according to the community standard. I get that it's nice to finally identify as "something" most specifically in a world where we are bombarded with sexuality. I feel that. A flag I don't feel. A flag that looks like bruises is too black and blue BDSM flag and well, yer. I came in after someone posted a link on FB in my inbox from the AVEN group I apparently joined at some point and forgot about joining. Voted no flag, for all of the same reasons given by others who are antiflag. :)

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I like the idea of having a flag, but didn't really like any of the choices. I picked ONE very simple one from each category. Gradations are a rendering nightmare in nearly all media, and multiple tiny symbols defeat the purpose of a flag. Most of these are WAY too complex. Still, kudos to everyone who put effort into this project - it did need to be done!

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Im well aware this has been discussed at length and having a flag has been mulling around for years. But the fact that there are still objections, and serious ones, about the way this has gone about, the amount of meaning and depth in the discussions ABOUT the symbols.... plus the fact that we are not the only asexuals out there. And none of the other asexual groups were even asked to submit anything.

I think this poll should be stopped. The flags that appear as flags of other countries/groups but with our colours should be put aside, and a call for flags from the other asexual communities should be made. If we are going to have a flag there should be a few rules put out when asking for flags eg original design, use of specific colours, dont make it too busy with symbols/things that arent as easily reproduced when making a flag etc. Some guidelines so people can work with them, not so we have over 50 flags which i personally found a pain in the butt to try and work out what i liked the most of.

I also thought flag submissions would go for longer, but thats just me.

This needs to be broken down into baby steps. eg. DO we want a colour as a back ground? Y/N Do we want symbols on it? Y/N Do we want stripes? Y/N etc etc.... and using this information people can design something that fits the criteria that the community ( and other asexual communities) want as their flag design specs. It narrows down teh choices in a fair way, and asks people to come up with creative ideas rather than copy another flags design and change colours, or make a flag in paint in 5 mins flat. If this is going to represent the asexual community at large, then it needs to slow down.

If its representing AVEN, and AVEN only..... well i cant see it hurting, but again, it should include the symbols that represent AVEN. Personally i think the black ring thing is stupid, i get its symbol etc, but it just doesnt stand right with me. If AVEN has a flag, it should be based on well established symbols representing us. Yes some of us wear black rings, but a circle on a flag, what does that represent to you? to me it expresses infinity, a continum, something that has no beginning and no end, a hole..... but i dont know if it realistically represents AVEN.

...

I agree that we need all sections of asexuals taken into consideration from the ground level up. This cant be an aven driven idea. If it is, then it is only the AVEN flag, not the flag for all asexuals.

Even then i think this process needs to be refined before submissions......

The fact that this has been discussed for years should clue you into the fact that enough time has passed already. There's no sense in making this a drawn-out, annoying, over-specific ordeal when this process is much faster and keeps people's attention. If someone opened a discussion post about flag design and had it open for 3 months, people would quit paying attention to it. I know you're critiquing my method, and that's fine, it's your opinion. In my eyes, flags that are selected this way are more "building blocks" than an actual finished product. It can be expanded on once we have an idea of what we want. Whether this involves changing hue, proportions, adding a small detail - that can be seen to later. Please keep your patience and wait to see where this takes us before calling it a completely terrible idea.

Your restrictions are rather limiting, too. We discussed at length that some of us don't want a flag that looks like the Confederate Flag, and some of flags do look like those of specific countries, but this is an open, inclusive poll because this reflects everyone, like you said it should. The voting should weed out the weaker designs, which is what I intended. I find your comments somewhat contradicting, demanding so many specifics and yet saying that more submissions should be accepted. I tried my best to get submissions from everyone who had an idea, and didn't censor anyone's ideas, or tell them they couldn't participate. Truthfully, there aren't many other possible designs other than the ones we already have. What would be the point in waiting a ridiculous amount of time for 10 different color variations of the same thing? That can be handled later, once we have the basics down and a general idea of what the people would like as a flag. (And it would have been helpful if anyone had chimed in with these objections earlier, instead of doing it when the serious part got started.) And from the way I'm reading your proposed procedure, it's doing the same thing these polls are, only it restricts the design process from the get-go instead of letting the people pick what they want in a democratic way once people have already gotten their chance to be creative.

I'm not stopping the poll. Give it a chance, and when we get to the final stages, then you can share your opinions. Don't suffocate a dream before it gets a chance to bloom.

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I find your lack of plaid... Disturbing. :evil:

I'm sorry I didn't include the plaid one. :/ It was the only one I didn't put into the voting, partly because it didn't have a category, but mostly because a plaid flag is really impractical. All of the other designs were incorporated, though. If you want me to add it I can see what I can do?

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Noskcaj.Llahsram

But some sort of plaid would let us get them as Kilts, at least those of us that are descended from the British Ilse, other wise they'd just be skirts

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CrazyCatLover

I didn't like very many of the symbol flags. I think we should stick with something simple.

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SpirallingSnowy

You havent taken submissions from any other asexual group - didnt even tell them aobut it untill after these were all up. There are objections that are being shrugged off as " well then dont use a flag". We either are totally inclusive - what you claim to be doing, but by not taking suggestions from other asexual groups you are excluding what they want. Or exclusive - eg it would be a much simpler procedure to just palm the decisions off to a select few people - mods/admods/ PT/ committee of avenites.

Im saying we should include ppls ideas but there is, a very large amount of flags to choose from. Nothing that i said is contradictory. I feel their should be guidelines to start off with, as there are with any graphical design process.

Flag discussions have come up and then died slow death before, because people didnt do anything. Im not saying we shouldnt have a flag but this is rushed to all hell. If this is going to be even a remotely permanent fixture for asexuality/aven then the submission process needs to thought out carefully etc. Do you think we have a " who wnats pamphlets" threads, in which people submit this number of designs and then we sift through them adn pick one?? no. We discuss the things that need to be on it, and then a few people come up with some lay outs, and then it gets tweeked etc. This isnt what has happened here. There has been a free for all entry process, without letting other asexuals know they can submit anything. Anything official is usually orchestrated by mods/admin/PT and im not saying we want to or will take over, but its difficult for something to become official when the people who usually state whether something is official or not have serious objections to having a flag in the first place ( eg Ally). Whats to say ppl choose flags instead of saying no they dont want one, because they figure they will be out numbered by the people who do want them, so they go with the majority instead of hteir actual wishes?

If something is to become actually official then:

- From the start we should of informed the other asexual communities

- Discussions on what symbols AVEN/asexuality wants a whole community, not just AVEN, or not jsut the people who see this thread.

-Had criteria that needed to be fufilled ( eg simple design, easily made into a flag, etc)

- Let teams/people submit from all asexual communities - with a predetermined time frame.

- Had smaller groups for people to choose rank their favourite flags from, or a more affective way of comparing the flags equallly, regardless of design type.

- Sent Admods/PT team something before the poll went up - jsut so we had a heads up. If we had objections or questions we could of raised them. We have forums we HAVE to check each day, and have lives like the rest of you, adn this could of easily gone unnoticed. - Letting us know courteous as well, plus we could of put it up in the banner so that more people could of known about the process/submissions/voting.

- Then put the poll up.

I dont object to a flag. I object to other asexual communites exclusion on all levels, including the submission process, I object to the fact that if someone doesnt want to use the flag they dont have to - well thats all well and good but then people will still use different stuff to a flag and this whole process will be moot, i object to the premise that the way this voting is being conducted will give a real idea of what aven/asexuality wants for their flag. I dont beleive it will, and i dont think it is the fairest way to go about this. If we are talknig about fair and inclusion. I object to the premise that AVEN even needs a universal flag. I object to the assumption that ppl will like any of the flags there, but actually that some people may feel a symbol is enough and ppl can stick it on whatever flag they like.

I think its awesome that people are discussing this and coming up with ideas and want a flag. Seriously, i think its great. perhaps we should be designing an AVEN flag, not an asexual flag though?? having a universal flag for all asexuals is a big deal. And i dont think this is being taken seriously enough.

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The following was not directed at me, but I felt compelled to respond.

The fact that this has been discussed for years should clue you into the fact that enough time has passed already. There's no sense in making this a drawn-out, annoying, over-specific ordeal when this process is much faster and keeps people's attention. If someone opened a discussion post about flag design and had it open for 3 months, people would quit paying attention to it. I know you're critiquing my method, and that's fine, it's your opinion. In my eyes, flags that are selected this way are more "building blocks" than an actual finished product. It can be expanded on once we have an idea of what we want. Whether this involves changing hue, proportions, adding a small detail - that can be seen to later. Please keep your patience and wait to see where this takes us before calling it a completely terrible idea.

Your reasoning presents the false dichotomy. Sure, painstaking bureaucracy is not the best way to go, but neither is a recklessly hasty and poorly publicized open poll. With something of this magnitude, taking time is vitally important, lest we come out with something mediocre. No guidelines lead to a vast influx of submissions, and the lack of a submission deadline, coupled with the hasty creation of the poll created a void of long planned designs.

(And it would have been helpful if anyone had chimed in with these objections earlier, instead of doing it when the serious part got started.)

There was less than five days between the flag proposal and the first vote. It would have been helpful if sufficient time was granted to notice and chime in with these objections before the serious part got started.

I'm not stopping the poll. Give it a chance, and when we get to the final stages, then you can share your opinions. Don't suffocate a dream before it gets a chance to bloom.

Since it is your poll, and since I hung up both my mod jacket and my PT jacket years ago, I cannot make you close it. However I feel this method will not produce a flag representative of asexuality as a whole. For the record, unless a convincing case can be made, I will continue to vote down all flags in each round of voting.

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However I feel this method will not produce a flag representative of asexuality as a whole. For the record, unless a convincing case can be made, I will continue to vote down all flags in each round of voting.

I agree with this and a lot of the other objections raised by others, like SpirallingSnowy.

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I have an idea for a compromise, if anyone would like to consider.

Instead of going through with this plan, which is to pick a flag in 3 weeks and then open a thread for modification ideas, we could instead put it on "pause" and expand on what we have. I would like to include people, and I realize that this way my have not been the best way to do that. What I can do, is at the end of this voting period, record the results on a piece of paper and save them. Sometime this week we could all hash out a thread with some guidelines about submissions, make it last for a longer period of time (maybe 2-3 weeks or so?) and advertise it in other asexual communities. (This was my error I think - I didn't realize that people in other asexual communities weren't also a part of AVEN.) With the new thread, we can collect submission ideas from everyone/everywhere, and then have a second poll kind of like this one but with all of the new "guidelined" submissions. This would result in inclusion from other people, which is pretty much the goal, and it'll provide more time so it doesn't seem rushed. Once the second poll is finished, I/we can continue on with more voting threads until one final flag is chosen.

I'm not sure if I did a good job explaining that, but basically, if you all want to, we can re-do the idea-making process to get submissions from many more people. Once the submission period ends, take those flags, make an elimination poll like this, then take the winners from this poll and the winners of that poll and continue to eliminate the weakest flags. Everyone wins?

Mostly I just want everyone to be happy with a flag. Of course, I can't please everyone, but this is about the community and that's what is important. So far 125 people want a flag and only 30 don't. Discussion about where to take this would be appreciated.

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Wow...lots of choices. I like what I'm seeing. =)

I particularly like "M" under the Symbols flags because it's a purple version of the Vinland flag and that appeals to me on a lot of levels. Although under the first Simple flags I can definitely see A and Q on a t-shirt, but A is my favorite.

Although I have to say, if not for the FB announcement for members of the AVEN group I never would have come across this until much later. For things like this, can the admin please send out a blanket PM to all members?

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Tigerghost

I actually don't like most of the flags proposed. What happened to the ace of spades? Wasn't the ace supposed to be a symbol of asexuality too. I've always used the rainbow flag with a marker-ed in Ace of spades symbol in the upper-left hand corner to symbolize my bi- or hom- romantic feelings, but maybe the romantics should have their own flag because purple, black, and white doesn't reflect me well =p

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I think a flag would be nice eventually, but it shouldn't be done like this. Lots of people have brought up objections that I share (I multiquoted, but accidentally lost them all, and can't be bothered to find them again) such as:

  • What do all of these symbols and colors mean? Does the purple have any significance outside of AVEN? The triangle isn't that easy to understand from sight, without further explanation. I agree with Dagon, changing the colors of various nation's flags is really not the way to go.
  • AVEN is not the entire asexual community. I'm glad that people are spreading the word to other groups online (LJ, Dreamwidth, Apositive, etc), but those forums aren't the entire asexual community, either. Granted, we're a pretty small community, not to mention the countless people who are asexual and don't realize it yet, but I think we should keep in mind that we're not everyone. A few times in this thread "asexual community" and "AVEN" have been used interchangeably, and that mentality needs to not happen.
  • Three weeks is not enough time to figure this out.
  • A good portion of the other flags/symbols used have some sort of history to them (for example, the pink and black triangles used during the Holocaust).
  • Also, while the Kinsey triangle is my favorite of the asexual symbols, I don't like that it can be so closely associated with the Holocaust symbols, when there is no connection.

While I would eventually like an asexual flag for Pride purposes, I really don't think this is how to do it. Granted, I don't have any better suggestions... I voted for individual flags in each category, but voted "no" on the last question.

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SpirallingSnowy

Killania - this was member instigated - and was not admin run. But i posted on all the aven facebook groups to try and let people know, so everyones opinions get counted.

In each catagory, the winner so far is no flag. So .....??

But yes, i like what you have suggested as a compromise.

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I find your lack of plaid... Disturbing. :evil:

Well, I did make one but:

I find your lack of plaid... Disturbing. :evil:

I'm sorry I didn't include the plaid one. :/ It was the only one I didn't put into the voting, partly because it didn't have a category, but mostly because a plaid flag is really impractical. All of the other designs were incorporated, though. If you want me to add it I can see what I can do?

I agree it would be impractical. XD I made it more for fun and the challenge, I knew there was no way it would be able to get made. :)

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I must say I am rather content with this compromise idea. A few suggestions:

With regards to other asexual communities, there are a good number. I can think off the top of my head of three English-speaking non-AVEN asexual communities, not to mention the non-English AVENs. I do not know how much those have grown or shrank, but I do know the Spanish AVEN was burgeoning when I left. If you truly want this to be universal, getting the non-English AVENs involved is quite important.

I would say that in hashing out the new guidelines, discussion is important. I would say that a set period of discussion on what would be important should there. I know much discussion has happened already, but amidst the submissions, the voting, and the arguments over the methodology, I feel much of the discussion regarding flag design and symbology has been lost, and as such a set thread and period of time devoted to that would be in order. I figure this thread may also be useful to bring new members up to speed on much of the asexual symbology and its origins and meanings. I noticed a number of members did not know the meanings of the AVEN triangle, the ace of spade, or the black rings in the submissions post.

I think getting the Project Team involved would be very beneficial. The Project Team was established to handle and organize things like this. Since this seems to be your project, I am willing to bet they would be happy to work with you to see this get done in a manner that will get both positive and reasonably timely results. Not to mention that by getting official AVEN involvement, official announcements and stickies can be made, thus AVENites who do not frequent this board will be notified.

With regards to the timeframe, definitive cutoff times are quite important. This will prevent the cries of unfairness and exclusion caused by an arbitrary cutoff. Now with regards to the length of time, it is important to note that not every member checks the board daily; some may only check on weekly or even biweekly bases. Thus a multi-week timeframe is essential. Along with allowing more members to participate, the multi-week timeframe will also allow those who prefer to plan out or think about their ideas more, and those who have busy schedules and can only sit down and work on such a thing once a week or so time to actually create submissions. In addition, this will allow any liaisons between this and other asexual communities time to get the word out and bring in ideas and submissions.

If I may, I'd also like to recommend having a no-voting discussion period when submissions to be voted on are posted. This will give people time to think about and discuss the submissions before weighing in, that way people do not vote one way and then regret their vote when something becomes known in the ensuing discussion.

If anyone else has any other feedback, I would be glad to hear it. This project is rather exciting, and it seems it has the movement to get things going, and as such I'd like to see it go in the right direction.

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No, A, F, and I are winning in their respective categories.

Everyone keeps repeating that "we are no the entire asexual community." Well, I don't know what bigger community exists. This is pretty much the place to do it, and if not every single asexual gets to participate, at least the majority will. (We are doing our best to involve people from other places on the interwebs.) IIRC, the gay flag was created by some guy and pretty much everyone just had to use it. So I think it's nice that we are getting to vote.

Dargon - I'm really glad you like the idea. All of your points are great, and I'd be very happy to work with this project in a different direction that includes non-English asexuals and has a little more discussion time. It's essential, I think, to make sure as many people can be involved as possible and keep deadlines so interest doesn't wane. :)

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