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What is "asexual elitism" and why does AVEN discourage it?


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"a straight person who has gay sex under extenuating circumstances is still straight" Are you kidding me? I think that everything not just sexuality is defined by how a person acts, other way their feelings will became null and soon they will be lost. It's like you say to someone: "I love you" and instead of giving him a hug you punch him, but in this situation the only person you are beating up is yourself.

That would make all celibate people suddenly asexual?

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"a straight person who has gay sex under extenuating circumstances is still straight" Are you kidding me? I think that everything not just sexuality is defined by how a person acts, other way their feelings will became null and soon they will be lost. It's like you say to someone: "I love you" and instead of giving him a hug you punch him, but in this situation the only person you are beating up is yourself.

That would make all celibate people suddenly asexual?

I am not talking about celibacy here. I'm talking about people who have sex. Celibacy is a choice made by how oneself feels, the same as it's sex, but I don't think a straight person would ever have a reason for gay sex if he/she is really straight, and what I mean by reason are things that are reasons of sexual nature, not curiosity...etc.

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"a straight person who has gay sex under extenuating circumstances is still straight" Are you kidding me? I think that everything not just sexuality is defined by how a person acts, other way their feelings will became null and soon they will be lost. It's like you say to someone: "I love you" and instead of giving him a hug you punch him, but in this situation the only person you are beating up is yourself.

That would make all celibate people suddenly asexual?

I am not talking about celibacy here. I'm talking about people who have sex. Celibacy is a choice made by how oneself feels, the same as it's sex, but I don't think a straight person would ever have a reason for gay sex if he/she is really straight, and what I mean by reason are things that are reasons of sexual nature, not curiosity...etc.

For example, biromantic straight people, or homoromantic straight people, are "less common" but they exist. In this sense, they are not sexually attracted to a same-sex partner, but they may be romantically attracted. Saying that these people have no reason to have sex with a same-sex partner only because they're not sexually attracted to them, is like saying it to all asexuals who have sex with their partner. You see what I mean?

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I see what you mean. I didn't say these people don't have a reason to have sex, of course they have, I just said that a valid reason for sex should be how someone feels sexually not romantically, because people can show their romantic feelings without needing to have sex.

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I see what you mean. I didn't say these people don't have a reason to have sex, of course they have, I just said that a valid reason for sex should be how someone feels sexually not romantically, because people can show their romantic feelings without needing to have sex.

It's often more complicated than that. For many sexuals, one of the important ways in which they do show their romantic feelings is through sex. Thus, when in a mixed relationship, one partner may greatly desire that activity partly for the sakeofthe love they feel for their partner. Once that's established, it's up to the partner todecide what, if anything, they want to do about it. The desire for sex, in this case, may not go both ways but the romantic feelings do.

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WhenSummersGone

"a straight person who has gay sex under extenuating circumstances is still straight" Are you kidding me? I think that everything not just sexuality is defined by how a person acts, other way their feelings will became null and soon they will be lost. It's like you say to someone: "I love you" and instead of giving him a hug you punch him, but in this situation the only person you are beating up is yourself.

I disagree with this. I've been curious about having sex with the same sex, just to see what it's like, but I'm still straight and asexual. Same with asexuals who have sex in relationships, doesn't mean they are suddenly sexual.

As for the sexual attraction debate, I think I have a clear idea of what I would say is sexual attraction, for me at least. I can't see sex appeal. I don't understand why someone is sexy over someone else or what sexy even means. I can see them as I would with beautiful paintings but that's pretty much it. I can't say I would "bang someone" just by looking at them. I don't understand what looks have to do with sex really. Same with smells or clothes as well, I just think "hey this person smells nice" or "that person dresses nice" but it's not at all sexual.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Libido could be defined as a type of itch. Some people itch more than others, but the amount doesn't matter. What matters, when determining sexual orientation, is whether the person would prefer for somebody else to help them scratch it when/if it happens. If they would prefer help, and if they prefer it from someone of their own sex, we call them homosexual. If they get the itch, and prefer help from someone of the opposite sex to help them scratch it, we call them heterosexual. If they get the itch and would prefer no help from anybody in scratching it, we call them asexual. (To put it very bluntly, whether or not a person masturbates has no bearing on their sexual orientation.)

I think it does.

I don't feel that 'itch'. That's precisely why I call myself asexual. All sexual feelings are foreign to me. When I look at someone, my opinion on their attractiveness, regardless of gender, is like an exclusive heterosexual's opinion on the attractiveness of a same sex person, or whatever. When I try to masturbate, nothing particularly pleasurable happens. I never spontaneously feel any desire to do something sexual. This is why I call myself asexual.

I don't think this makes me better or worse than anyone. Nor do I think your behavior has any bearing on your sexuality - it's your feelings that determine that. But if you feel anything sexual, at all, then you're not asexual. Hyposexual or demisexual or monosexual or something like that, not asexual. That's how I see it.

If that's not what asexuality is, then tell me, what do I call having no sexual feelings or any form? I'm really tired of being invisible. Sexuality seems to be everywhere, even on a forum that's supposed to be about being asexual.

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Libido could be defined as a type of itch. Some people itch more than others, but the amount doesn't matter. What matters, when determining sexual orientation, is whether the person would prefer for somebody else to help them scratch it when/if it happens. If they would prefer help, and if they prefer it from someone of their own sex, we call them homosexual. If they get the itch, and prefer help from someone of the opposite sex to help them scratch it, we call them heterosexual. If they get the itch and would prefer no help from anybody in scratching it, we call them asexual. (To put it very bluntly, whether or not a person masturbates has no bearing on their sexual orientation.)

I think it does.

I don't feel that 'itch'. That's precisely why I call myself asexual. All sexual feelings are foreign to me. When I look at someone, my opinion on their attractiveness, regardless of gender, is like an exclusive heterosexual's opinion on the attractiveness of a same sex person, or whatever. When I try to masturbate, nothing particularly pleasurable happens. I never spontaneously feel any desire to do something sexual. This is why I call myself asexual.

I don't think this makes me better or worse than anyone. Nor do I think your behavior has any bearing on your sexuality - it's your feelings that determine that. But if you feel anything sexual, at all, then you're not asexual. Hyposexual or demisexual or monosexual or something like that, not asexual. That's how I see it.

If that's not what asexuality is, then tell me, what do I call having no sexual feelings or any form? I'm really tired of being invisible. Sexuality seems to be everywhere, even on a forum that's supposed to be about being asexual.

Again, non-libidoist is the term for people who have no libido. :)

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Mostly Peaceful Ryan
Libido could be defined as a type of itch. Some people itch more than others, but the amount doesn't matter. What matters, when determining sexual orientation, is whether the person would prefer for somebody else to help them scratch it when/if it happens. If they would prefer help, and if they prefer it from someone of their own sex, we call them homosexual. If they get the itch, and prefer help from someone of the opposite sex to help them scratch it, we call them heterosexual. If they get the itch and would prefer no help from anybody in scratching it, we call them asexual. (To put it very bluntly, whether or not a person masturbates has no bearing on their sexual orientation.)

I think it does.

I don't feel that 'itch'. That's precisely why I call myself asexual. All sexual feelings are foreign to me. When I look at someone, my opinion on their attractiveness, regardless of gender, is like an exclusive heterosexual's opinion on the attractiveness of a same sex person, or whatever. When I try to masturbate, nothing particularly pleasurable happens. I never spontaneously feel any desire to do something sexual. This is why I call myself asexual.

I don't think this makes me better or worse than anyone. Nor do I think your behavior has any bearing on your sexuality - it's your feelings that determine that. But if you feel anything sexual, at all, then you're not asexual. Hyposexual or demisexual or monosexual or something like that, not asexual. That's how I see it.

If that's not what asexuality is, then tell me, what do I call having no sexual feelings or any form? I'm really tired of being invisible. Sexuality seems to be everywhere, even on a forum that's supposed to be about being asexual.

Asexual means you don't feel sexual attraction to any gender. Some asexuals do experience a libido, which is more of an "itch" that can be taken care of by masturbation. It doesn't mean they aren't asexual, because they are still not sexually attracted to anyone.

People that don't have a libido are called non-libidoist. Not all asexuals are non-libidoist

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reading this thread and the forum in general made me very confused, as i'm drowning in labels, and there are too much for me to take.

before i came to this forum (which was two days ago) i didn't bother myself to enlighten myself on the subject and just let it be...

in my perception until now, asexual is someone who doesn't feel sexual desire/urge/need nor sexual attraction, like living in world where all connected to 'sex' themes don't exist. knowing that some asexuals do have sexual activity i was thinking of them doing it more like a chore (didn't really spent too much thinking on that since it's something i quite don't understand).

anyway my thought on the topic after being these days on the forum... i think the problem with asexual elitism is that asexuality is too much of a big spectrum boxed into a small package. what makes me the most confused it the 'labeling' system, if you are 'this and that' then you are x asexual, if you 'think this and that but do those' then you y asexual and there are so many sub labels i've seen here that i've just lost count... if you're gay, you're just attracted to the same gender, but the asexuality as a term is too vague.

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reading this thread and the forum in general made me very confused, as i'm drowning in labels, and there are too much for me to take.

before i came to this forum (which was two days ago) i didn't bother myself to enlighten myself on the subject and just let it be...

in my perception until now, asexual is someone who doesn't feel sexual desire/urge/need nor sexual attraction, like living in world where all connected to 'sex' themes don't exist. knowing that some asexuals do have sexual activity i was thinking of them doing it more like a chore (didn't really spent too much thinking on that since it's something i quite don't understand).

anyway my thought on the topic after being these days on the forum... i think the problem with asexual elitism is that asexuality is too much of a big spectrum boxed into a small package. what makes me the most confused it the 'labeling' system, if you are 'this and that' then you are x asexual, if you 'think this and that but do those' then you y asexual and there are so many sub labels i've seen here that i've just lost count... if you're gay, you're just attracted to the same gender, but the asexuality as a term is too vague.

I think you've got a good point...the chore bit in particular. Your perception isn't much different than mine, and my personal experience goes along with it.

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An asexual who has sex under extenuating circumstances is still asexual.

An extenuating circumstance can be almost anything. Seriously! It doesn't have to be a death threat! It might be nothing more than the path of least resistance which will avoid an argument or, even worse, the loss of a relationship.

That makes very much sense! (I'm reading this post again now that I'm not sleepy anymore, and wow, it's like a new post I've never read before laugh.giflaugh.gif And a great one, besides smile.gif )

The part I didn't understand when I was new on AVEN, was that some asexuals who have sex even enjoy the act itself (not talking about masturbation but "real" sex)... unsure.gif Now I know that it's possible, that aces who enjoy sex are still just as asexual, whether or not you enjoy the act of sex has nothing to do with the definition of asexuality and so on... Now I know all this.

But I have to admit, that the idea is still hard to really grasp (like... internalize and deeply understand) for me - I mean, I can't imagine myself in that situation, that I'd enjoy sex itself although I didn't feel sexual attraction towards anyone.

But on the other hand, I can't even imagine myself in the situation of a common sexual, who has a strong desire to have sex with people they're attracted to... so maybe my "skill to imagine myself in situations" doesn't matter tongue.gif

It would be interesting (and hopefully enlightening smile.gif ) to hear someone, who likes sex (not only to please their partner but in other ways too) but feels no attraction, to describe how it is to feel that way, though. But I understand that it could be just as impossible as to get me understand how it is to be sexual, and I've given up the hope to ever fully understand it laugh.gif

THIS is me. I have been married for 35 yrs. I have had sex w/my husband, on average; twice a week thru out the marriage. I enjoy sex - after i have achieved the "O", it is work & concentration before i get there, not to mention frustrating. My husb has no idea (well, he does think i am "different") i am asexual, i havent told him. It has been a long road - our sex life, from beginning (which was almost unbearable - due to HIS Sex drive) to where it is now. I actually have always believed that being Asexual has been an asset when it comes to finding a partner - sifting thru the garbage to find the treasure.

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I really enjoyed reading this post and subsequent comments.

As a newcomer to this site (and exploring asexuality) I do feel as if I am drowning in labels and groupings and sub groupings.

I have had sex and experienced sexual attraction but not on the almost industrial scale which society now deems "normal".

My lifelong disinterest in sex was recently compounded by medical treatment that has left me without any libido and ability to have sex.

This has come as a MASSIVE relief as I no longer have to pretend to enjoy/participate/pursue the whole sexual thing. As medical treatment also resulted in me losing both breasts I am also exploring how that impacts, if at all, on my gender identity.

Oh yeah ... interesting times in our house!

I am lonely however - I want a mate. But that re-iterates to me that in the past I only really engaged in sex in order to be close to someone.

Everything feels much more honest how - albeit more complex.

I have no idea what label some may put on me - and really I am not interested in all of that.

I am just relieved that there is a corner of this highly sexualised earth where like minds can feel safe and explore differences and similarities. :D

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Someone really needs to make a flowchart for the different groupings. :P Except there's a strong policy here of not trying to tell other people what their sexuality/asexuality is, so it would have to come with a strong warning to take it with a grain of salt.

I find it a little weird that people are getting stressed out over the Baskin Robbins 51 different flavors of asexuality, though. Overwhelming at first? Sure. But it's also a little comforting, I think. There's a lot of newcomers who are sure in their welcome messages that they're asexual- but different asexual from everyone else for x reason. And then they research and often find that there's people like them after all. I have a lot of gay/lesbian friends who are very black and white about it- you either like the same sex, or you don't, and there's no middle ground. (Don't usually run into that problem with bisexuals or trans, or with the more open-minded GL.) Here, though, with the asexual community, it's more relaxed. Don't know what you are exactly? That's fine- hang out anyways. We're sure you fit in there somewhere. That's pretty cool, to me, anyways.

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anon_anonymous

if there is asexual elitism then why not celibacy elitism?

ok they aren't the same things, but i see no difference between imposing your sexual orientation on others as opposed to your sexual preferences.

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if there is asexual elitism then why not celibacy elitism?

ok they aren't the same things, but i see no difference between imposing your sexual orientation on others as opposed to your sexual preferences.

Sure there is celibacy elitism, I think a good example would be people who think if you have sex before marriage you are "damaged goods" and people who keep themselves "pure" for their husband/wife are somehow better. While celibacy elitism and asexual elitism are equal in their absurdity and should equally be discouraged, they discriminate in different ways, so they're not the same thing.

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anon_anonymous

if there is asexual elitism then why not celibacy elitism?

ok they aren't the same things, but i see no difference between imposing your sexual orientation on others as opposed to your sexual preferences.

Sure there is celibacy elitism, I think a good example would be people who think if you have sex before marriage you are "damaged goods" and people who keep themselves "pure" for their husband/wife are somehow better. While celibacy elitism and asexual elitism are equal in their absurdity and should equally be discouraged, they discriminate in different ways, so they're not the same thing.

oh i agree they are equally absurd, but again with the religious / moral thing. it seems to me to be vaguely similar to the claim that asexuals are "damaged" etc....

I'd like to meet and help people who are looking to become celibate

but not the inverse ;) ??

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anon_anonymous

Nothing against the inverse, anon. I can easily understand non-religious voluntary celibacy and its motivations, but the importance of sex to sexually active people, or people who want to be sexually active, is much harder for me to understand,

it was a joke - i was joking and anyway you missed my point - not everyone is either asexual, sexually active, or wants to be...

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I really enjoyed reading this post and subsequent comments.

As a newcomer to this site (and exploring asexuality) I do feel as if I am drowning in labels and groupings and sub groupings.

I have to agree on that. I don't need a flowchart, but ... I want to know how others define the terminology before adopting it for myself. :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thank you. I've been so confused about myself for so long, since I masturbate to certain things, but have never been sexually attracted to anyone, or felt the desire to have sex. Now I realise that it was just a misconception. So thank you! :)

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But I'm yearning to know the approximate percentage of the asexuals who do masturbate and the ones who can't experience sexual pleasure at all? Which ones would prevail?

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But I'm yearning to know the approximate percentage of the asexuals who do masturbate and the ones who can't experience sexual pleasure at all? Which ones would prevail?

Not representative, of course, but it's a start: Poll: (most likely TMI) Masturbation without Porn

From the AVENites voting in that poll, 55% masturbate at least once every two weeks, another 17% do it occasionally but more rarely than twice a month.

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Omg, that's terrible! Only less than 30% don't have a libido and physical desire for sexual pleasure! I'm like endangered species, I knew there was something wrong with me!

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Omg, that's terrible! Only less than 30% don't have a libido and physical desire for sexual pleasure! I'm like endangered species, I knew there was something wrong with me!

I don't think ~30% is *that* few. After all, you'll find someone sharing your experience once in every 3-4 people on AVEN. :)

Compare that to one in every 200-300 folks out there "in the wild", it should put things back into perspective. :cake:

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