Body Image

[sitdownstandup]

My family is very conservative but they are more militant about modesty than sex out of marriage (actually they never told me not to have sex out of marriage ) Anyway, I think it's been contributing to the fact that, along with the media and being asexual,

I've been having trouble lately with my body image. When I see women on television's bodies being flaunted I start hating my own. Even when I am near male family members I start feeling awful. (for some reason I don't feel this way around lesbians...weird) I really want to be proud of my body and I support things like topless sunbathing, but for some reason whenever I am around men I want to hide myself. I feel like something is wrong with me, in particular my breasts. It goes beyond simply thinking flat-chested is beautiful.

I was staying at my sister and my brother in law's place a couple of months ago and one day she said "Paige, I noticed you've developed, and I was thinking that you should wear a bra while my husband is home." I got really upset over this. In my defense my mom said "she's not doing this to be difficult, it's because she doesn't know why she has more of an obligation to be modest than men do", and my sister gave me a lecture on how men are inclined to look at women's bodies therefor we have to cover up so they won't go crazy with lust, and if they do then it's our fault...basically. It may seem like I'm overreacting, but that kind of hit the nail on the head.

Has anyone else had this problem? Is this worthy of a visit to a psychologist, or am I just neutrois?

[asexual cake]

I think your family was out of line. The only person responsible for lust or wandering eyes is the person to whom they belong - if your sister's husband goes crazy with lust at the sight of a braless (but presumably not topless?) girl who is his legal family, there are deeper problems than just immodesty (which I also think is an unfair accusation) on your part. No one has any greater responsibility to be modest than anyone else, and it's unfair and sexist to implicate women more for daring to wear clothes that fit or eschew wearing a bra (for example). Besides, a large part of what is found to be sexually arousing (like bare breasts in places like the US) is not innate but culturally learned, so the site of a braless woman is only potentially (inappropriately) arousing because the society in which said woman lives says it is and constantly sexualizes breasts.

Saying that women have more responsibility to be modest than men (ack) essentially sexualizes women's bodies due simply to their existence and removes any responsibility for their own lust from heterosexual men. This is stupid. Sexual people the world over look at each other sexually, and look at bodies sexually when they're in all stages of dress and undress. A braless or naked person is no more automatically provocative than a fully clothed person, and what makes a body 'sexy' comes more from context and associations than anything else (so someone fully dressed dancing burlesque is still more sexualized - or should be - than a model posing nude for an art class, and etc.). But I don't think you were in the wrong - unless you were deliberately trying to arouse or provoke your brother-in-law, you weren't doing anything wrong.

So... there's that. In regards to the other part of your comment, I ... am not really qualified to say anything (I mean, I'm probably not qualified to say anything about the latter half, either, but I did anyway). I do know, however, that feelings of shame or embarrassment or what have you are pretty common in teenagers, especially as they're still feeling the affects of puberty through changes in the shape and size of their bodies. I've felt them (I'm 17), and I know that a lot of my peers do, too. So, even if it's really unpleasant and unfortunate, you're not alone.

[Serpens]

I actually had the opposite problem as a teenager. My mother was a whore, yes, she really was (not as a profession, mind you), and never really tried to explain things to me but assumed as my body developed I was naturally becoming a sexual person just like her (well, like her would have been overly, overly, and overly sexual though).

In the start I also dressed like a whore just like she did since I never questioned it, it was just just dressing up my Barbie dolls. I didn't understand that women dress in such ways to impress men - I always felt that men were just ugly and annoying, and when they started showing inappropriate interest in me I likewise felt just awful and changed 180 degrees: I started dressing as a man and going transsexual.

I struggled hard to finally have a radical breast reduction surgery but that alone didn't make me happy at all, what I wanted was a muscular body of at least equal strength to average males.

It was a long hard road all the way on the edge of suicide, but eventually I obtained testosterone (for injections) and finally started seeing results in bodybuilding. Nowadays I have the problem to be mistaken for a male crossdresser more often than not - but better this way than being game to straight males any longer.

So well, I can fully understand you feeling awful around men but not around lesbians - I don't mind lesbians either. Even if I knew a woman was fantasizing about me I wouldn't really mind it because she's still "only" a woman: nothing scary to me, women are "harmless". But the idea a man might fantasize about me is a nightmare, it would be like a mental rape to me even if I might never know about it.

So, I don't think there's anything wrong with you - I'm probably a lot more extreme in this than you - but I'd never support anything like topless sunbathing. It always makes me sad when I look at a beautiful girl (and I do like looking at girls) and then think what men will be thinking when looking at her. The sad truth is that when you have a body that is considered "sexy" (and I HATE this word alone!) then you're naked to them - even when you're not. So I can only advocate covering up as much as possible. Sadly.

[prettyeyes]

So well, I can fully understand you feeling awful around men but not around lesbians - I don't mind lesbians either. Even if I knew a woman was fantasizing about me I wouldn't really mind it because she's still "only" a woman: nothing scary to me, women are "harmless". But the idea a man might fantasize about me is a nightmare, it would be like a mental rape to me even if I might never know about it.

I kind of know where you're coming from. The difference for me between one fantasizing and the other is the way so, so many men use violent terms for sex. For example, I think we've all heard a guy say he wants to "pound that," "bang that," "screw that," "hit that," et cetera, as if their penis was some sort of tool one would find at Home Depot.

Anyway, I don't think you're overreacting at all, OP, and I think what she said to you was pretty disgusting. Men can certainly control their own "wild lust" otherwise every time a woman went outside they would see guys humping trees. I for one have never seen anyone of any gender being overtaken by "wild lust" in public.

[Condemned Valour]

and my sister gave me a lecture on how men are inclined to look at women's bodies therefor we have to cover up so they won't go crazy with lust, and if they do then it's our fault...basically

Sounds like the same reasoning I've heard used in Middle Eastern societies to have women cover up from almost head-to-toe.

I'm also going to second everything Pugnacioun has said.

I think your discomfort really does come from the over-sexualization of breasts in Western society, and the related message that men are more apt to act on merely seeing them. The second statement may very well be true in some senses. Because they are so heavily sexualized-- in various modern media and social indoctrinations-- heterosexual males may take the visibility/prominence of breasts as a sort of social cue that you are available for such pursuits. Such views only become more exaggerated if you have the misfortune of being heavily-endowed in that attribute; larger breasts are inherently more prominent.

When it comes down to details, the only physiological reason I can see for an attraction to larger breasts is that there is the potential for more breast-milk to be offered to one's offspring; a sign that one's descendants have a greater likelihood of thriving in the past-- and the present as well, if one happens to live in an area where substitutes for it are scarce. Other than that, it's a social construct.

You are not at fault. If your sister is worried about her husband pursuing you simply because you have no bra on underneath your clothes-- either she should have more faith in him or she should get rid of him. If her assumption is true, he isn't a worthwhile marital partner. If you're living with someone for the rest of your life, you should be able to trust them.

If I had a sister like you, I would consider it a personal and unforgivable betrayal if someone of my close acquaintance tried to sexually pursue her without her consent. Blood is thicker than water, as the saying goes, and perhaps your family should remember that before trying to take the easy way out by blaming you.

[adiaphora]

let me see if i can get my own thoughts on this topic out in an organized fashion:

i'll start out by saying i'm male and homoromanticasexual from the usa currently living in thailand. i too feel sometimes as if the world views males as creatures unable to control their sexual urges. i like what serpens said:

"So well, I can fully understand you feeling awful around men but not around lesbians - I don't mind lesbians either. Even if I knew a woman was fantasizing about me I wouldn't really mind it because she's still "only" a woman: nothing scary to me, women are "harmless". But the idea a man might fantasize about me is a nightmare, it would be like a mental rape to me even if I might never know about it. "

i've recently had males (both young and very old) pursue me sexually very openly and aggressively even when i tell them repeatedly i don't want sex. and other times men talk about buying prostitutes and strippers for parties or one night flings as normal dinner conversation. and over time it has made me somewhat afraid they are the models of 'normal' men and so this could mean others view me that way just because i'm a male-- even though i am asexual. any look that lingers too long or any touch that seems unwarranted could label me a predator. people come to me and ask me if i think their friends or relatives are beautiful and i don't know how to respond. if i say yes does this imply i want to date/have sex with them? or does it simply mean what i say-- that they are beautiful? as an artist i appreciate beautiful things, but i don't want to have sex with them, date them, or even necessarily know them for that reason alone. sometimes it makes me hate the fact i'm a man and makes me overly conscious about the way i interact with people, which is unfortunate.

but at the end of the day, i suppose people are controlling their own sexual urges. it is all up to the individual. but is this similar to the typical debate between someone saying a girl walking downtown at night in a mini skirt without underwear on asking to be raped? i say she has a right to wear what she wants for whatever reason-- be it consensual sex, feeling comfortable/beautiful/personal expression, whatever-- nothing justifies someone unconsensually violating someone else's personal rights and space. i would hope that to be common sense. and if that relative can't be trusted, it's him they have to talk to about an adjustment.. not you.

[Lego M]

I think we've all heard a guy say he wants to "pound that," "bang that," "screw that," "hit that," et cetera, as if their penis was some sort of tool one would find at Home Depot.

...can I put that quote in my signature?

I really don't have anything to add to this topic, everyone else has said everything that I would've said.

[prettyeyes]

I think we've all heard a guy say he wants to "pound that," "bang that," "screw that," "hit that," et cetera, as if their penis was some sort of tool one would find at Home Depot.

...can I put that quote in my signature?

I really don't have anything to add to this topic, everyone else has said everything that I would've said.

Yes, lol. :lol:

[zoidberger]

I just wanted to comment on the body image thing. I think it's very unfortunate that society has created this concept of body image, what we should all think is beautiful, reinforcing that everyone should be on the latest diet, and accepting uncomfortability with one's body. I know this problem is focused on society as a whole, but the main target is most obviously women. You're attacked from a young age with magazines and TV shows that sport ideas and images that are designed to essentially make you feel bad about your body. I can't begin to imagine the guilt that places on women. Heck, Barbie dolls were proportioned such that if they were real human beings they would not be able to walk without falling over. This extends not only to looks, but how women should act, wear and do. It's horribly sad, really. It ruins lives, flattens happiness and doesn't make sense to me AT ALL.

I wish it was as easy as saying, don't worry about it, just be comfortable with who you are. It gets ingrained in your mind and can easily make you feel personally uncomfortable with yourself. Try to realise that media that you see isn't anywhere near average and only just prays on this horrible mindset. If you can help it, try not to compare yourself. If you feel like these negative thoughts about your body could be damaging or just disturb you on a regular basis, I'd definitely recommend giving a therapist a try.

/rant... for now I guess.

Good luck!

[Trini]

I've been having trouble lately with my body image. When I see women on television's bodies being flaunted I start hating my own. Even when I am near male family members I start feeling awful. (for some reason I don't feel this way around lesbians...weird) I really want to be proud of my body and I support things like topless sunbathing, but for some reason whenever I am around men I want to hide myself. I feel like something is wrong with me, in particular my breasts. It goes beyond simply thinking flat-chested is beautiful.

You're not alone there. I've felt the exact same way for years. I identify as androgynous, but my biological sex is female so I have experienced this type of negative body image. However, I am dealing with it better now.

Wearing a bra has always made me feel worse about my body - like I'm supposed to use them to either cover myself (implying that I have to be more modest than men, which isn't fair), or that they are supposed to make me sexy (which I don't want to be). So I stopped wearing them, no matter what my friends or family think, which has made me feel a lot better about my body, and less restricted by what society thinks women should be and what women should wear.

I try to remind myself that men and women all have chests, and that they look different because they serve different purposes. I try to ignore the sexual aspects. If someone is thinking sexual thoughts, those are their thoughts, not mine. Not my problem.

If you feel significant distress because of this, maybe look into talking to a therapist, If you think it's something you can handle on your own then I wouldn't say its neccessary.

[prettyeyes]

What I really want to know, is when do a transgirl's breasts become horrifically offensive to the general public like bio gal's chests are treated? Are they offensive as soon as she identifies as female? As soon as she gets on hormones? As soon as she has a big enough chest to need a bra?

I am sick of having to cover my damn boobs. It's really hot outside. I want to take my shirt off and jump in the pool but noooo I might disturb the public and give people nightmares or make straight men and lesbians go insane with evil lust!