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Mars & Venus


sitdownstandup

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sitdownstandup

I have been doing research on gender roles, identity, feminism, and the differences between female and male sexual responses out of fascination for the subject (and maybe using some websites as bibliography for a future essay), and happened to find a collection of essays commenting and criticizing John Gray's Mars & Venus that I wanted to share.

http://web2.airmail.net/ktrig246/out_of_cave/index.html

I've actually never read this book, but for those who have, what do you think of it and these essays?

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Marco - Proprietor of Doom

[warning contains: I'm not really sure what the hell I want to say]

I only got about half way through "Crown Him Patriarch" so far I've decided if I get the chance I'm buggering off to Pluto.

Ah but on a more sincere level I was glad to see it referred to patriarchy as a social construct, and not just harping on about men oppression women, and actually showed patriarchy from the male perspective, how patriarchy only works out for men if they act acorrding to it.

who dares identify abuse for what it is, risks being ostracized as a sissy, a mamma's boy who belongs with "the girls"

Oddly I'd think "belongs with the girls" wouldn't really be a bad place to stand for a hetrosexual male, funny that.

I think one part really stood out at me though. thought it was kind of funny to be honest.

This individualistic approach can lead to blame games. Paradoxically, it can promote stereotyping. A friend once told me about a stockbroker he met at a party. "I think she really liked me, but she expected me to take all the initiative. What's wrong with women? Are they so afraid of rejection that they can't ask a guy out?", Pete complained. I countered, "Pete, have you read The Rules and Mars and Venus On a Date? I doubt that she's afraid of rejection. Hey, she's a stockbroker. The problem is our patriarchal social system. With these "experts" telling her it's social suicide, she's not going to ask you out unless she's a pioneer." Pete didn't know what to say.

I have to say I've always been a little annoyed about the same thing ^Pete mentions, but I never put it down to fear I allways assumed it was down to stupid macho expectation or something.

Although I have been asked out before by a girl I'm not complaining. But I don't really think she thought of her self as a pioneer. Considaring the circumstances I dout she would have had time to speculate about it. ^_^

(sorry ended on a tangent)

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Have read "Dr"* Gray's book. I thought it was trash, and I'm so glad I didn't spend money on it. I think it's actually worse than trash, I think it's harmful - to both individuals, especially women, who believe what Gray writes, and also to society at large.

I haven't had time to read the essays you posted, but another essay that you might be interested in is the Rebuttal from Uranus, now sadly gone from its original home on the web (so most links to it will be dead). Yay for web.archive.org!

* Gray bought his PhD, he didn't earn it.

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oneofthesun

I've read parts of the book and the first essay... and my conclusion so far is that it's impossible for anyone to be objective on this subject. I don't think the battle of the sexes will ever be settled.

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I don't know. The metaphore never really made sense to me. In the first grade it was common knowledge from a song that "girls went to Mars to get more candy bars" and "boys went to Venus to get their p----." :huh:

Boys were also apparently made of greasy, slimey gofer guts, mutilated monkey meat and little tiny birdies' feet. Well, needless to say, that was never covered in high school biology.

:P

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prettyeyes

I don't know. The metaphore never really made sense to me. In the first grade it was common knowledge from a song that "girls went to Mars to get more candy bars" and "boys went to Venus to get their p----." :huh:

Really? In my circle of friends it was "boys go to Jupiter to get more stupider." :lol:

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Well, Kitten, I would rather have Breakfast on Pluto.

tumblr_kslkqe404K1qzlyyao1_400.jpg

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sitdownstandup

I don't know. The metaphore never really made sense to me. In the first grade it was common knowledge from a song that "girls went to Mars to get more candy bars" and "boys went to Venus to get their p----." :huh:

Really? In my circle of friends it was "boys go to Jupiter to get more stupider." :lol:

that was said in my first grade class, too!

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I don't know. The metaphore never really made sense to me. In the first grade it was common knowledge from a song that "girls went to Mars to get more candy bars" and "boys went to Venus to get their p----." :huh:

Really? In my circle of friends it was "boys go to Jupiter to get more stupider." :lol:

that was said in my first grade class, too!

Yup! :D I remember that line too.

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Marco - Proprietor of Doom

I don't know. The metaphore never really made sense to me. In the first grade it was common knowledge from a song that "girls went to Mars to get more candy bars" and "boys went to Venus to get their p----." :huh:

Really? In my circle of friends it was "boys go to Jupiter to get more stupider." :lol:

that was said in my first grade class, too!

Yup! :D I remember that line too.

<_<

As far is I recall we were all to busy playing pokemon together to start making up rhymes to insult each other.

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