I start to get seriously confused!

[sindi]

A while ago I find out about genderless/neutrois/agender/androgynous/third gender/one more term? people - until that, I honestly had no idea that those terms exist, or that those "phenomenons" are generally acknowledge. Yeah, I was pretty ignorant... I should probably be ashamed... :redface:

But anyway, I realized, that I'm one of them myself (genderless, I guess... ). Deep inside (and even on the shallower levels :lol: ) I've never really felt like a girl (not to mention woman), but not really a guy either.

I hate it, when people refer to my sex, and as far as I can remember, I've always hated it.

Just some examples: On the first class of primary school girls should sew a pink teddy bear, and boys a light blue one. I was the only girl who insisted to sew a blue one, 'cause it felt (and was... ) so wrong that I should choose the colour according to my goddamn sex :lol: Also, when our teacher read aloud a book, where a boy (the main character) described girls, I protested loudly. And during my whole childhood I often had very short hair and liked to dress up as a boy - also I liked to pick a fight with the boys, and I found it offending, if a teacher came to stop the fight and accused the boy for fighting with a defenseless slender girl like me :evil: :evil:

When I came to the teenage, I hated my female body parts so much, that I went to the shower with a swimsuit to avoid seeing them.

And I still have a problem with them, but I've learned to deal with them, wear clothes that make me look flat and ignore my "down there". And I still hate it when people refer to me as a woman/girl, and I hardly ever say "we" when I talk about females, 'cause it simply feels wrong.

Anyway, I wouldn't go for an operation to remove my vagina (as a teenager I used to wish that, though) or make my breasts even flatter, 'cause I can live with my body and therefor see no point. Besides, the idea of someone cutting my body is pretty horrid... not to mention that it would be way too expensive for a broke person like me!

What I'm wondering is: which is the correct gender-definition for a person like me? I don't want to sound stupid & spread wrong information by using a wrong term, so could someone please help me? I already thought I knew that I'm neutrois (and that genderless is the same thing), but now it seems that I can't call myself neutrois 'cause I don't want to go for an operation to make my body genderless - is it true? So please guide me with those labels...

[Elliott Ford]

The right label for you is the one you chose for yourself :)

If you want to ID as neutrois, go for it. Just be prepared to explain that you're non-op.

If you want to ID as genderless, genderfree, genderqueer, nongendered or agendered, that's fine too.

So's third gender if you like the sound of that one. Or you could say that your gender identity is Lindi :)

It's up to you and don't let how other people label themselves determine how you identify yourself. Go with what seems right and comfortable to you.

[asexual cake]

I think you could still identity as neutrois (and keep within the identified boundaries of meaning for the word), even if you don't plan on surgery. There are non-operative transsexuals, after all. I think the division between genderless and neutrois is an active disconnect and rejection of your body's morphology - so genderless people are indifferent, but neutrois people actively dislike/feel at odds with their body, regardless of whether or not they want to or plan to go through surgery.

[Bero]

I think the other two pretty much already said it, but I just felt like commenting on this:

also I liked to pick a fight with the boys

That was totally me, haha. I think I had Little Man Syndrome--I always tried to beat up much older/taller boys. :lol: (The ones my age/size were fine, though--we played Power Rangers. ) Probably luckily, none of them ever fought back; my cousin (who's 10 years older) would pick me up and hold me upside down, though, and belatedly gave me noogies as a teenager.

[sindi]

Thank you for your encouraging replies! :) If a neutrois doesn't necessarily go for an operation, then I think that's the word that describes me best! And most of all I'll of course identify as just myself, lindi :lol: I just needed to know what my type of gender-identity is usually called :)

And Bero: exactly, I prefered to fight the bigger boys too. The taller the better, or something :lol: :lol:

[Frey]

I didn't know there were operations that can make you genderLESS.

Is there a thread about that? Now I'm curious.

[asexual cake]

I didn't know there were operations that can make you genderLESS.

Is there a thread about that? Now I'm curious.

Well, nothing can make you genderless, as gender is something ... not exactly mental, but not morphological.

But you can undergo a variety of processes to remove markers and characteristics associated with one sex or another. As a biological female, you can have a hysterectomy and an oophorectomy (to remove the uterus and ovaries, respectively), as well as either breast reduction or removal. And as a biological male you can undergo castration to remove both the testicles and the penis. You can also undergo hormone therapy to bring your body's shape more in line with either sex, or, I believe, take them for a shortened period of time resulting in greater androgyny.

So there are ways to bring your body more in line with a "unisex" form, but I imagine they're harder to get approved for a neutrois person than a transsexual (within the binary) person, since neutrois is still (from what I'm taken to believe) less commonly known and, subsequently, not as respected.

[Sammie]

But you can undergo a variety of processes to remove markers and characteristics associated with one sex or another. As a biological female, you can have a hysterectomy and an oophorectomy (to remove the uterus and ovaries, respectively)

And a colpectomy, which is the closing up of the vaginal opening and can also involve the removal of the labia and clitoris. That would basicly leave nothing but a big scar.

This is biologically possible. Getting a doctor to agree to it.. that's another story.

[Frey]

Sexless. I was just going with the phrasing already used, so.

Yeah, I was wondering about that. It's hard enough just to get a hysterectomy without being asked eight million questions and seven million rejections. Someone would have to be really radical... and have really expensive rates... to perform some of these things.

Maybe the guys on Nip/Tuck...

[Sojourner]

Sorry to come in on this thread a little late...

genderless/neutrois/agender/androgynous/third gender/one more term?

My understandings of these terms (simplest first):

Androgynous - Not distinctly male or female, masculine or feminine

Agender - Someone whose gender identity is neither male nor female

Neutrois - An agender person with a distinct desire to have a sexless body, whether or not they have hormones/surgery/what-have-you

Third Gender - Someone whose gender identity is not male, female, or agender, but who feels that they should be a third sex (I'm not very sure of this one so I may be wrong)

Genderless - Someone with no conscious gender identity, generally someone who really doesn't care about physical sex

There are also bigender (both male and female, or sometimes one and sometimes the other) and pangender (which I think can mean someone who identifies as a combination everything, or can be used as an umbrella term including third gender and both types of bigender).

The right label for you is the one you chose for yourself :)

Yes. What's most important is what you feel you are.

You can also undergo hormone therapy to bring your body's shape more in line with either sex, or, I believe, take them for a shortened period of time resulting in greater androgyny.

So there are ways to bring your body more in line with a "unisex" form, but I imagine they're harder to get approved for a neutrois person than a transsexual (within the binary) person, since neutrois is still (from what I'm taken to believe) less commonly known and, subsequently, not as respected.

I haven't heard of taking hormones temporarily to achieve adrogyny and now I'm curious. Do you know if they would still cause heightened risks of cancer and such, like taking hormones permanently? Or how long the androgyny would last?

It is much harder for a neutrois person to become sexless, at least where I live. I still haven't found any way to have my chest surgically flattened without nipple grafting, much less to have lower surgery. Not that I could afford either anytime soon anyway...

[Elliott Ford]

I haven't heard of taking hormones temporarily to achieve adrogyny and now I'm curious. Do you know if they would still cause heightened risks of cancer and such, like taking hormones permanently? Or how long the androgyny would last?

It is much harder for a neutrois person to become sexless, at least where I live. I still haven't found any way to have my chest surgically flattened without nipple grafting, much less to have lower surgery. Not that I could afford either anytime soon anyway...

For clarification, I'm a trans man so I know about how this would affect XX, eostrogen-based bodies.

Your body needs to have sex hormones. It doesn't really matter which one you have more of but it's usually a good idea to have more of one than the other. Taking testerone increases the risk of certain cancers after you've been taking it five years or so, if you still have your reproductive organs. Once the ovaries have been removed, the dose of testerone can be reduced as the body is not producing so much eostrogen. The risk of cancer is also greatly reduced.

If you have no ovaries and no testicles, you need to have some sex hormone to reduce the risk of osteoperosis. So, if an XX person went on T for a short time and came off it again, they'd be fine unless they also had their ovaries removed.

[Sojourner]

Thanks much, Elliott Ford. I had heard that removing the ovaries would cancel the cancer risk but not that it would also necessitate permanent hormone usage. Bah! So many things to consider...

[Jakku]

I feel exactly the same way as you lindi, thanks for posting this it's kind of a relief to think that i'm not the only one. ^_^